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you mean was it only under acceleration? definitely not.
i'm not him, but,,,, the wobbles is,, rear toe keep changing as you cruise down the interstate so you have to keep adjusting "center trim" on steering wheel to make the car go straight.
I could feel the ass of the car moving left and right.
it feels like you hand-tightened lugnuts, or some suspension bolts are loose, or ,,, feels like 2002 suburban with 200k miles.
thank god i only wasted $170 on ingalls and $70 on alignment.
i really don't get how so many people are satisfied with ingalls and avoid SPC for such a petty issue like ball joint boot - ordered OEM boot for SPC kit on the way. same ball joint, should fit right over, just like OEM boot for front skunk2 ball joint arms.
You are absolutely right!
If you like driving and feeling the car then you will most likely feels the "wobble" in any condition over 20m/h
As for building you a kit, I'm actually working on a big project and doesn't have lot of spare time. If you don't mind waiting at the end of summer then I maybe willing to build you one. I don't want to say you Yes and then don't deliver what I promise.
You are absolutely right!
If you like driving and feeling the car then you will most likely feels the "wobble" in any condition over 20m/h
As for building you a kit, I'm actually working on a big project and doesn't have lot of spare time. If you don't mind waiting at the end of summer then I maybe willing to build you one. I don't want to say you Yes and then don't deliver what I promise.
i thought i replied this morning. i guess not.
thanks for taking up my offer, but i decided to purchase SPC and see how they do.. if they wobble too i'm gonna have to get something or order bushing by size and press it in the spc arm
(i'm not going back to ingalls. and plus, it's just 1 bushing per side for SPC as opposed to 4 perside for ingalls)
so I'm trying to understand this, the ingalls bushing is too soft, and the custom urethane ones you made are too stiff? and the oem is perfect because it has allows spherical movement? Please elaborate on the physics of this.
so I'm trying to understand this, the ingalls bushing is too soft, and the custom urethane ones you made are too stiff? and the oem is perfect because it has allows spherical movement? Please elaborate on the physics of this.
He had J-power
I had ingalls so I can answer for ingalls.
Ingalls is TOO soft
custom urethane was okay but STILL softer than OEM. (based on what 1.6 said)
OEM is perfect because there is zero movement (other than metal being malleable)
Well crap... I need lower arms and no i dont know what to get! I had the J-Power on my old TL but sold it after i have 8-10k miles on them so I never had a problem.
Correct me if i am wrong, but isnt there a 4wd website that makes custom adjustable arms? Maybe we can send links in and have them cut/weld adjusters in with using the oem bushings... Im looking into this!
Edit: Email sent to a custom shop in MI and MN. Maybe we can see if they can do a group deal.
Last edited by Comptechtl2367; 05-22-2013 at 11:18 AM.
You are absolutely right!
If you like driving and feeling the car then you will most likely feels the "wobble" in any condition over 20m/h
As for building you a kit, I'm actually working on a big project and doesn't have lot of spare time. If you don't mind waiting at the end of summer then I maybe willing to build you one. I don't want to say you Yes and then don't deliver what I promise.
Any update??
I am approaching almost $500 just in alignments with no resolve until finding this.
I am so F'ing fed up with my rear being out of spec 20 miles after an alignment.
can someone confirm that this is the toe adjustment bushing? I think I have one of my lower control arms backwards. as in one side one the toe adjustment, and one side on the knuckle assembly.
Last edited by paperboy42190; 10-05-2013 at 08:40 PM.
Any word on this? My J-Power bushings on the camber kit are blown and move around about 1/4-1/2" causing my side wall on my tire to sit on the inside of the rolled fender. It's melting side really badly. I would love to have a custom set made.
can someone confirm that this is the toe adjustment bushing? I think I have one of my lower control arms backwards. as in one side one the toe adjustment, and one side on the knuckle assembly.
Any word on this? My J-Power bushings on the camber kit are blown and move around about 1/4-1/2" causing my side wall on my tire to sit on the inside of the rolled fender. It's melting side really badly. I would love to have a custom set made.
The best is to get custom ones fabricated.
It's not really complicated, you just need a machine shop that can weld.
I'm running on my kit since last year and my alignment is still on target. No more uneven tire wear!
I'm currently reading this https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-tires-wheels-suspension-97/rear-toe-keep-getting-slightly-out-after-ingalls-camber-kit-885207/
All I can say is, Shit!
I had the exact same problem last year, replaced with urethane bushings and it did nothing.
The only "off the shelf" solution to get the toe adjusted is the ingalls which comes with crappy bushings.... When you look at the OEM toe arm you understand why Honda developped a sealed spherical bearing instead of a normal rubber bushing on this arm.
Think you would be able to make me a set of these if I send you my stockers? I pay well!
As well as $500? If we get a group buy it could be more like $200-$300 im guessing
Exact, if you can get some more guys in it, it would lower the price. It's also depending on the stock arms we take. If we can find some cheap arms with good bushings in them in a junk yard, then the price could be different.
I can estimate around 200-250$ + the price of an arm kit. I remember I paid like 45$ in a local yard for my arms kit.
Iv had mine for about a month, with no problems. I think it does say on the instruction manual that comes with the kit to not over tighten the bolt connected to the bushing because it will crack
J-Power adjustable control arms: No luck with these products. I had the same symptoms as others.... floaty feel in the rear, unstable, alignment went off, etc... I ended up buying OEM arms and life is good. I only have Tein S springs, and Progress RSB +new Endlinks, 255/40/17 Conti DSWs...and I think the car handles great.
Conclusion: Rubber bushings inside the ends of each shifted...throwing off stability and alignment. If I decide to get a camber kit, it will be SPC.
I will throw my J-Power arms up on the black market along with OEM springs and RSB. I will not recommend this product to anyone.
can someone confirm that this is the toe adjustment bushing? I think I have one of my lower control arms backwards. as in one side one the toe adjustment, and one side on the knuckle assembly.
Originally Posted by max 1.6
This is going on the knuckle
Please check again. This really looks like it goes on the toe adjustment side(towards the inside of the car). Reason I say this is that this one is a flexible bushing(for toe adjustment), whereas the other side is very firm.
Please check again. This really looks like it goes on the toe adjustment side(towards the inside of the car). Reason I say this is that this one is a flexible bushing(for toe adjustment), whereas the other side is very firm.
the one pictured as absolutely no play. It's a spherical bearing, no rubber, no bushing.
It goes on the knuckle to allow for suspension movement.
The other side is a rubber bushing.
I have just went to check 2 different accords, one is 2004 and one is 06-07. they have the same suspension setup as our TLs. The bushing(pictured above) goes on the inside toward the frame of the car, not the knuckle.
they were stock cars that have not been modified in any way. any response max 1.6?
I will check out some TL's and tsx's when I get a chance but I dont think it'll be any different
This is why I don't trust and will never again trust J-Power camber arms. Both the cambers arms gave out in less then a year even though the toe arms 'look fine' they where loose too. I'm back on stock arms with a Spc ball joint camber kit.
the one pictured as absolutely no play. It's a spherical bearing, no rubber, no bushing.
It goes on the knuckle to allow for suspension movement.
The other side is a rubber bushing.
I can confirm this. I remember when I was trying to do rear shock+spring replacement, I tried to drag out the knuckle part of the arm, and it was definitely spherical bearing mated to knuckle.
How I still remember it, I was trying to slide the arm out of knuckle stud with toe cambolt still untouched, and thought "huh? I can twist this bushing that easy?" then realized it was spherical bearing.
Also, FWIW, aftermarket trailing arms control arms, etc for various cars almost always has bearing on the knuckle, bushing on the frame.
I can confirm this. I remember when I was trying to do rear shock+spring replacement, I tried to drag out the knuckle part of the arm, and it was definitely spherical bearing mated to knuckle.
How I still remember it, I was trying to slide the arm out of knuckle stud with toe cambolt still untouched, and thought "huh? I can twist this bushing that easy?" then realized it was spherical bearing.
Can you explain why the pictures I found in my post show the spherical bushing on the frame side?
Also, after checking couple tsx's and accords, I noticed they both have solid bushings on the knuckle and frame so it's actually unlike the TL. I will need to find a couple TL's to check now.
I was only checking cars that have 100% stock suspension so there wouldn't be any concerns with previously incorrect installs.
Last edited by paperboy42190; 01-11-2014 at 02:58 PM.
So I ordered ES bushings for my jpower arms. Installed them yesterday. NOT direct fit. But they pressed in and work. I had to but up my stock lower arms, so I couldn't re-use the ends. I'll have pics later. It is 1000 times better than the old bushings.
Can you explain why the pictures I found in my post show the spherical bushing on the frame side?
Also, after checking couple tsx's and accords, I noticed they both have solid bushings on the knuckle and frame so it's actually unlike the TL. I will need to find a couple TL's to check now.
I was only checking cars that have 100% stock suspension so there wouldn't be any concerns with previously incorrect installs.
I would love to explain or prove,,, but I can't I don't think "I lay out the parts I took off like in a spread diagram" is a good explanation here.
when I see a parked stock-looking TL, I'll take a peek under.
I remember this when i replaced my rear arms. Spherical bearing bushing goes to knuckle side and the other one goes to frame side. I don't know why payperboys pics showing opposite way.
^Thanks for the pics, it confirms what I saw today.
I actually got a chance to check out a TL-S today with stock lower arms today...you guys are right. the spherical bushing DOES go in the knuckle, and the solid bushing in the toe adjustment bolt.
I apologize for any confusion I may have stirred. I guess the other pics I found was actually on backwards!
I had the job power kit on my 98 accord and had the same issues. One thing that needs to be done with any adjustable toe arm, is a lock out kit. It simply gets rid or the eccentric bolt on the subframe, which is not needed since the arm it's self is adjustable. What a member of 6trhgenaccord (.) Com found was that with the adjustable arm, even om arm and eccentric bolt, the toe would change after a while, along with a hitting mild bumps.
Diy for the toe lock out http://www.6thgenaccord.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=47260
Another item I came across after seeing it on Instagram is the hard race rear toe arms. Which surprisingly are not available in the us. Only UK and australia
nice find. but hard rubber is hardly a replacement for spherical bearing. and the stock bolt is not the problem it's the POS rubber in Ingalls arms that I used for a day and sold.
I had the job power kit on my 98 accord and had the same issues. One thing that needs to be done with any adjustable toe arm, is a lock out kit. It simply gets rid or the eccentric bolt on the subframe, which is not needed since the arm it's self is adjustable. What a member of 6trhgenaccord (.) Com found was that with the adjustable arm, even om arm and eccentric bolt, the toe would change after a while, along with a hitting mild bumps.
Diy for the toe lock out http://www.6thgenaccord.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=47260
Another item I came across after seeing it on Instagram is the hard race rear toe arms. Which surprisingly are not available in the us. Only UK and australia
Personally I think these and the diy lockout may be the answer. Or finding a company or shop to make rear arms with spherical bearings
Hope this helped
Originally Posted by 4drviper
nice find. but hard rubber is hardly a replacement for spherical bearing. and the stock bolt is not the problem it's the POS rubber in Ingalls arms that I used for a day and sold.
Special bearing would be perfect, but no one makes them sadly. The toe lock out kit will help keep the alignment inspec. It'll be better with arms that have bearings not soft rubber. The same guy on 6ga is making arms with the spherical bearings, and he told me the only difference between 6gen accord and tsx/tl/7ga arms is half an inch. Which shouldn't matter when it's adjustable.
In theory they should still work. There's no eta on his kit tho. But I did come across a guy on Instagram that does a lot of Mazda rear links and has done some 350z arms. I shot him a email letting him know our issues and if he could help. I'll keep everyone updated
Random bump. If anyone witha 04-08 TSX or 3rd gen TL can get me accurate measurements of the rear camber and toe arms i may have a solution that are available.
I need
-lenth of both arms
-diameter of bolt holes
-width of the bushing
So, just seeing this post after having been linked by another member and wanted to bring some clarity to possibly confusing comments made about us.
Originally Posted by 4drviper
i'll probably do a writeup in a new thread about why you shouldn't even poke ingalls with a 10foot pole if you're even a bit concerned about driving (as opposed to hellaflush)
plus install of SPC and swapping dust boot. i'll have it posted by the first half of May, if not earlier.
my ingalls rear toe thread and this, i would like to combine both info and help people not fear SPC because of some dust boot ..
hey i just noticed, mr heeltoe says to stay away from camber kits with aftermarket ball joint but he recommends skunk2 kit lol, and does not mention that it's a simple matter of swappig out the dust boot for a $2 retail part at honda dealership. also my negative review about ingalls on his site (where i purchased it from) was "being reviewed". it probably won't get posted for obvious reasons.
HT spec coilover(for HPDE) and now camber kit(not even for HPDE, just everyday commuting), i'm losing faith in "HT spec"
We don't think the SPC is a bad part because it has a ball joint. We think the Ingalls is a better kit because it does not have one. No matter how good the joint or boot, the part is not going to be as good as the factory one. Add to that the fact that if a ball joint fails an arm comes off. If a bushing on the lower arms fails, it will handle oddly but the arm is captive. It cannot come free from the car. We just don't think an HTSpec part should be good except "all you gotta do is fix it." The Ingalls has the benefit of additional toe adjustment, is easier to install, and easier to adjust. It costs about the same as the SPC as well. They have stood directly behind the few reported issues that have occurred and fixed all customer complaints that were reported to us.
Our article was posted in reference to the rear suspension on this particular chassis. For the front, we feel the Skunk2 arm is arm is a much better solution than a replacement ball joint than either SPC or Ingalls. Due to the fact there is no other way to adjust front camber than replacing a ball joint, we pick one as our fav. While some people have demonized the Skunk2 arms because of the small bolts holding in the ball joint with a few even having come loose, we have not been able to substantiate this concern on the HTSpec TSX. Proper tightening of the bolts is critical and we are sure this is not done right. And allen wrench is not adequate: We suspect most people do not own hex drivers.
HTSpec is not a brand thing. If you drive a 4g TL or a 2g TSX we much prefer the SPC front ball joint BECAUSE of the ball joint boot having a more flexible design. Add to that, we prefer the Ingalls rear kit (Single arm and adjustable ball joint combo) over the SPC (a 3-arm kit) because it is considerably less costly yet accomplishes the same task. HTSpec is not a brand loyalty thing; it is a "recommendation for your car and your needs" thing. With so many options out there people get confused on what to buy. Cost, ease of installation, reliability, and product support are all factors in us delegating an item as HTSpec.
The F2 damper kit honestly handled ok on the track. It was low cost and did well on the street, even when pushing it really hard. Unfortunately we had to drop that product because of reliability concerns that F2 could not reconcile.
All HTSpec items should be up to snuff for HPDE. In all honesty, for HPDE we think the stock arms are fine. The natural camber works fine on the track. The front did need a bit more camber, but even with stock arms it handled fine. We recognize we have not done a great job at communicating just what HTSpec is. Our new website launching in the next few days we expect will do a better job of this.
PS: We did not delete the review. It is still in review status. We did not feel the review would be helpful in making a decision for consumers, mostly because the review cited asking Ingalls for resolution but did not report what the resolution was. We cannot validate the comments about deformation after we had extensive time invested installing these kits in customer cars (we must have installed over 50-60 sets ourselves). We would have contacted the reviewer for more information but did not have their contact info. For those interested, this was the review:
Originally Posted by Eddie
If you like going on/off highway ramps at faster than posted yellow sign (i.e. 20mph) these bushings won't hold. it will keep flexing thus constantly changing your alignment as your car is in motion.
I contacted ingalls engineering for a fix or solution, hopefully refund.
after 200miles of driving, the alignment issue still persists, and bushings appear (all 8, 4 on each side) off centered (deformed) I'm going to have to get an alignment tech to verify that since my voice has no power because i'm just a silly customer.
Last note...Ingalls actually did update the bushings in their kit some time ago with a bushing that is less prone to dislodging.
The upper bushing is the older one, the lower one is newer.
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04-29-2013, 08:13 AM
I don't think "I lay out the parts I took off like in a spread diagram" is a good explanation here.
