Front tire inside wear-is this camber or something else? - AcuraZine Community

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Old 04-02-2011, 12:09 PM   #1
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Front tire inside wear-is this camber or something else?

just noticed some wierd wear on the inside of my front tires very angeles at the inside edges of both tires like 1" wide and a 45 degree angle compared to the rest of the tire...

could this be camber or is it rubbing on something else?

my front camber is around -1.2 which isnt horrible but maybe that is enough to make a wear like this?

thanks!

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Old 04-02-2011, 9:47 PM   #2
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I'd get it on an alignment rack and see what the settings might be and have the tech check out the suspension. Look like a toe out with negative camber.
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Old 04-03-2011, 1:29 PM   #3
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i had it aligned toe is fine camber is -1.2 front but its wearing really odd like a 1" wide patch at a 45 degree angle right on the sides
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Old 04-03-2011, 5:36 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by murph145 View Post
i had it aligned toe is fine camber is -1.2 front but its wearing really odd like a 1" wide patch at a 45 degree angle right on the sides
Sorry, but it's not fine, something is very wrong or it wouldn't be wearing out the inside of both front tires. Take it somewhere else.
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Old 04-03-2011, 7:56 PM   #5
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they gave me the report and they used a road force hunter machine

showed before and after toe along with camber... i dont have camber kits as of yet but i am getting some new tires for a stretch as soon as those go on next week i will take it to a new alignment shop and get some camber arms for the rear at least

the wear pattern is very odd though itrs right on the edge i dont even see how it can ride on the ground like that it makes me think its rubbing on something at extreme turn radius turns but im not sure ill have to take the rim off and look to see if there is a rub spot underside
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Old 04-03-2011, 9:05 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murph145 View Post
they gave me the report and they used a road force hunter machine

showed before and after toe along with camber... i dont have camber kits as of yet but i am getting some new tires for a stretch as soon as those go on next week i will take it to a new alignment shop and get some camber arms for the rear at least

the wear pattern is very odd though itrs right on the edge i dont even see how it can ride on the ground like that it makes me think its rubbing on something at extreme turn radius turns but im not sure ill have to take the rim off and look to see if there is a rub spot underside
Hunter Road Force is used for balancing, not alignmentm but from what I read it's on both front tires, so it's not a problem isolated to a suspension failure on one side, it's the same on both, bad alignment specs. It's been years since I tried this, but lay 2 pieces of paper down one on top of the other on a smooth surface, then drive straight over the paper slowly. If the toe is extremely out, the tire will drag the paper, if fine, the tire will roll over and no movement of paper.
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Old 04-04-2011, 1:08 PM   #7
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I'm no expert but how are your compliance bushings?
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Old 04-04-2011, 1:19 PM   #8
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^ not exactly sure what those are care to elaborate?

Thanks!
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Old 04-04-2011, 1:25 PM   #9
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If you look at my picture above the tire is wearing at a 45 degree angle right on the inside edge of the tire.... to me its weird because how can it wear at that angle its not like my car is driving on the edge of the tire with a -10 camber
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Old 04-08-2011, 3:38 AM   #10
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what about the quality of the tire? i've had cheap sunny tires that wore unevenly due to the cheap material, even though i had good alignment
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Old 04-08-2011, 6:57 AM   #11
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The problem is you can only adjust the toe on this vehicle. Your lowered like most on this forum and will run into one problem when you lower your vehicle.. That being Neg camber. If you want to fix this issuse then you will need a camber kit.
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:31 PM   #12
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Don't mean to hijack your thread, but I do want to say "ME TOO." My wife's 07 Type S Auto trans car is doing the same thing. The car has tire wear on all four tires on the inside edge over about a 1" wide area at a 45 degree angle. I'm not sure if it is wearing both the front and back because the tires are rotated frequently by the dealership. Her tires are Michelin Pilot Sport AS Plus (the 40,000 mile tread wear warranty tires) that have 13,000 miles on them and they are shot. The cords are nearly exposed.

A bit of history.
The first set of replacement Michelin Pilot Sport AS Plus tires: 13K miles ago we had the same problem with a set of Michelin Pilot Sport AS Plus tires that had been installed by NTB. Those tires had about 11K miles on them. When those were installed NTB said "you have to pay us to align your car, if you don't we can't stand behind the warranty or support you in front of Michelin." NTB did the rotate and balance for one year and I paid for the 1 year alignment which meant they checked the alignment twice after the initial alignment and each time they said all is well, the car is aligned. At the end of the 1 year alignment the inside of the tires were down to the cords. NTB said Michelin had defective tires and Michelin said NTB did a bad alignment. That same day we took it to the Acura dealer and Acura said the "alignment by NTB although acceptable to NTB was not optimal". This is how I worked out a deal on the replacement pilot sports that today have 13K miles and are spent.

The second set of replacement Michelin Pilot Sport AS plus tires: These lasted 13K miles as mentioned above and about 1 year. During the oil changes at the Acura dealership we asked that the dealership rotate the tires and check them for tread wear, etc. Each time they rotated and checked we got back a summary sheet that said good tires with good tread depth readings. Admittedly I did not look at the inside most edge because the outside edge looks good and the center of the tread looks good too. The inner edge is difficult to see due to tire width even if you turn the wheel completely to one side.

Two weeks ago my wife had brakes checked at the Acura dealership and they left the left rear wheel lug nuts very loose so that about 1/4 mile from the dealership only two loose lugs remained and three were gone. The dealer picked here up, installed some lug nuts and tightened up the lug nuts "gorilla tight." I could not get the lugs to budge at 140 ftlbs. I took the wheels off to re-torque them and noticed that the inside edge of the tires on all 4 tires are worn nearly to the cords. Days earlier the service tech wrote tread depth of 7/32 and said the tires were fine. The tires are good on 80-90 percent of the tread width, but the 10 - 20 percent thiat is not good is really not good.

What causes this? Most miles are driven locally and short distance trips by my wife, say 10K of the 13K. The additional 3Kmiles were from PA to Richmond, VA, or Charlotte, NC or Nags Head, NC. On these longer trips we had luggage in the trunk, car cleaning supplies, fishing gear, books, etc. There were probably a couple hundred extra pounds in the back of the car. These trips were spread out throughout the last year. Otherwise most of the 10K was with my wife alone in the car or my wife and I. I have heard that excessive weight in the trunk will cause premature tire wear.

The car is stock aside from a K&N air filter (who wants to pay for a new Honda filter when the K&N can be reused) and the Michelin Pilot Sport As Plus tires.

I have to call the dealer and ask them to check the alignment again. I won't go to NTB unless I have to and do not trust their alignment. When we had them check the NTB alignment and found error with it my wife decided to take it to the dealer for oil changes and ask them each time how the tires are wearing. They always tell her the tires are wearing well and never comment on abnormal wear patterns.

Any advice on how to keep tires on the car? I can't afford $1K for tires every 10 - 15K miles.

HELP! Any suggestions or experience appreciated.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:31 AM   #13
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^ i wish i knew the answer too my original stock tires did the same thing wore on the inside edge and now being lowered with lower profile tires the wear is faster and more severe....

you might want to check your compliance bushings to see if they are shot i here that may cause this issue... basically front horizontal bushing on lower control arm about 2.5" in diameter ... ive heard that if these are busted/cracked that it can keep throwing off the toe even after alignments.... i visually looked at mine the other day saw small cracks but nothing too horrible.... im still confused too... i cant even rotate my tires so its wearing fast in the front right now.... im going to take it to another tire shop and have it aligned there get the report back and see what they say or suggest i do.... my back tires are running a -3 camber but are not wearing anywhere as bad as the front with a lil over -1 camber.... i know its a fwd car but still its ridiculous wear...

let me know if you find anything out id really be interested as well to finally get this fixed!
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Old 06-11-2011, 3:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flstc4me View Post
Don't mean to hijack your thread, but I do want to say "ME TOO." My wife's 07 Type S Auto trans car is doing the same thing. The car has tire wear on all four tires on the inside edge over about a 1" wide area at a 45 degree angle. I'm not sure if it is wearing both the front and back because the tires are rotated frequently by the dealership. Her tires are Michelin Pilot Sport AS Plus (the 40,000 mile tread wear warranty tires) that have 13,000 miles on them and they are shot. The cords are nearly exposed.

A bit of history.
The first set of replacement Michelin Pilot Sport AS Plus tires: 13K miles ago we had the same problem with a set of Michelin Pilot Sport AS Plus tires that had been installed by NTB. Those tires had about 11K miles on them. When those were installed NTB said "you have to pay us to align your car, if you don't we can't stand behind the warranty or support you in front of Michelin."
NTB did the rotate and balance for one year and I paid for the 1 year
alignment which meant they checked the alignment twice after the initial alignment and each time they said all is well, the car is aligned. At the end of the 1 year alignment the inside of the tires were down to the cords. NTB said Michelin had defective tires and Michelin said NTB did a bad alignment. That same day we took it to the Acura dealer and Acura said the "alignment by NTB
although acceptable to NTB was not optimal". This is how I worked out a deal on the replacement pilot sports that today have 13K miles and are spent.

The second set of replacement Michelin Pilot Sport AS plus tires: These lasted
13K miles as mentioned above and about 1 year. During the oil changes at the Acura dealership we asked that the dealership rotate the tires and check them for tread wear, etc. Each time they rotated and checked we got back a
summary sheet that said good tires with good tread depth readings. Admittedly I did not look at the inside most edge because the outside edge looks good and the center of the tread looks good too. The inner edge is difficult to see due to tire width even if you turn the wheel completely to one side.

Two weeks ago my wife had brakes checked at the Acura dealership and they left the left rear wheel lug nuts very loose so that about 1/4 mile from the dealership only two loose lugs remained and three were gone. The dealer
picked here up, installed some lug nuts and tightened up the lug nuts "gorilla tight." I could not get the lugs to budge at 140 ftlbs. I took the wheels off to re-torque them and noticed that the inside edge of the tires on all 4 tires are worn nearly to the cords. Days earlier the service tech wrote tread depth of 7/32 and said the tires were fine. The tires are good on 80-90 percent of the tread width, but the 10 - 20 percent thiat is not good is really not good.

What causes this? Most miles are driven locally and short distance trips by my wife, say 10K of the 13K. The additional 3Kmiles were from PA to Richmond, VA, or Charlotte, NC or Nags Head, NC. On these longer trips we had luggage in the trunk, car cleaning supplies, fishing gear, books, etc. There were probably a couple hundred extra pounds in the back of the car. These trips
were spread out throughout the last year. Otherwise most of the 10K was with my wife alone in the car or my wife and I. I have heard that excessive weight in the trunk will cause premature tire wear.

The car is stock aside from a K&N air filter (who wants to pay for a new Honda filter when the K&N can be reused) and the Michelin Pilot Sport As Plus tires.
I have to call the dealer and ask them to check the alignment again. I won't go to NTB unless I have to and do not trust their alignment. When we had them check the NTB alignment and found error with it my wife decided to take it to the dealer for oil changes and ask them each time how the tires are wearing. They always tell her the tires are wearing well and never comment on abnormal wear patterns.
Any advice on how to keep tires on the car? I can't afford $1K for tires every
10 - 15K miles.

HELP! Any suggestions or experience appreciated.
I'm in the exact same boat. Car is stock, no accidents little aggressive driving. It has just under 70,000 miles. Had no problems till I replaced the original tires at about 45,000 and got my first alignment. I'm getting ready to replace the Pilot A/S again for the second time after 12,000. Readout from alignment is within specs. I'm going to a different Firestone and try to get it aligned to the tires instead of specs.

Let's see if we can't get this straightened out.
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Old 06-11-2011, 4:10 AM   #15
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i have the same problem with my front tires... i'm pretty sure it has to do with negative camber and toe being off. just installed camber kits so we'll see after i get the car aligned.
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Old 06-11-2011, 8:10 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flstc4me View Post
What causes this?
The car is stock aside from a K&N air filter (who wants to pay for a new Honda filter when the K&N can be reused) and the Michelin Pilot Sport As Plus tires.
If the alignment is in spec according to the printout, there will be no uneven tire wear, so for the guys that are stock and notice uneven wear there is a problem with the alignment.

Many years ago, after the installation of new tires, I had the shop do the alignment on both the Cadillac and Buick I owned. A while later I installed new pads on the front of the Buick and as the tires were wide, the right front stood upright when off the car, but the left front fell over, looked closely and worn on the inside. I then looked at the Cadillac and sure enough the left front was worn on the inside also. Took the Buick back, put it on the rack and it was perfect. Drove to his brother’s shop, put it on the rack and the left front camber was way out. Corrected and no future problem other than one worn tire that naturally no compensation was offered. Actually, there are many horror stories over the years with alignment and balancing when other shops were doing the work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MR1 View Post
I'm in the exact same boat. Car is stock, no accidents little aggressive driving. It has just under 70,000 miles. Had no problems till I replaced the original tires at about 45,000 and got my first alignment. I'm getting ready to replace the Pilot A/S again for the second time after 12,000. Readout from alignment is within specs. I'm going to a different Firestone and try to get it aligned to the tires instead of specs.

Let's see if we can't get this straightened out.
There's your problem, you got it aligned. If the tires show no signs of eneven wear, don't get the car aligned.
Post the before and after printout and let's take a look to see what they adjusted incorrectly.

Last edited by Turbonut; 06-11-2011 at 8:13 AM.
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Old 07-19-2011, 10:17 PM   #17
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I'm having the exact same problem. I got some Yokohamas about 15,000 miles ago and the insides are completely worn. You can see the metal on the front ones. I just had an alignment done as well and the camber wasn't off by much. The guys at Meineke acknowledged as well that the alignment wasn't that off so they are not sure why the tires are wearing excessively on the inside. My car is completely stock.

Is this a widespread problem amongst the third gen TLs? What options do I have?
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Old 07-19-2011, 10:36 PM   #18
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^ i think its a pretty common problem i still have no clue whats going on with my tires either... i checked the one thing i thought it could be (compliance bushings) and they are not cracked.... so i duno it actually pisses me off but what am i guna do now
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:50 AM   #19
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Hey Murph,

It's been a long time...have you figured it out the inside wearing?

I just switched to the winter tires and noticed my front tires are all done, will need to buy new ones in the spring, exactly the same type of wearing as yours and the other folks' who replied later.
At first, I thought it was the negative camber causing it but did the alignment and all measurements were within specs.

Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by murph145 View Post
just noticed some wierd wear on the inside of my front tires very angeles at the inside edges of both tires like 1" wide and a 45 degree angle compared to the rest of the tire...

could this be camber or is it rubbing on something else?

my front camber is around -1.2 which isnt horrible but maybe that is enough to make a wear like this?

thanks!

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 01-01-2013, 2:37 PM   #20
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This happened to me to an then I got a ball in my tire. Is your tire rubbing on anything?
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Old 01-01-2013, 2:46 PM   #21
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Those look like Michelin Pilot A/S Plus tires. I had a similar experience as flstc4me above and my alignment was dead on. Those tires wore like that on the fronts and the rear too- the rear seems worse though.

The A/S Plus tires appear to be incompatible with our cars- the outer edges have a softer compound that must wear much faster than the middle.
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Old 01-01-2013, 5:42 PM   #22
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I know for sure it's not the alignment because:
1. the "before" measurements of the alignment I did last week matched the "after" measurements of the alignment I did last spring (very minor changes) - I did not even need another alignment lol
2. the front tires are wearing on the very inside portion at 45 degrees angle. There is not way I can drive on that portion of the tire on the street. If I did, the wheel must be 45 degree tilted to get that wearing. This is why I say it is no the camber....
If I didn't take a look underweight and made sure there is no rubbing when turning or free running, I would have said it was rubbing the inside of the fender for sure.

I even put the front car on the 2 ramps I have (as opposed to having it on the jacks), leaving it on its own weight, and I didn't see any rubbing at all neither when turning left or right nor when rolling the wheels straight.

But what it bugs me the most is, I do recall in the summer time I used to hear some rubbing when taking off from my driveway and having the steering maximum left or right, but didn't pay attention to that, maybe that was the cause.

Here is the setup I am running:

- 2006 TL automatic
- lowered all around ~1-1.5 inch
- 8.4 inch rims, 38 mm offset (8 inch / 45 mm offset is standard)
- 245/35/19 Bridgstone RE-11 (235/45/17 is standard)
- camber kit in the rear, none in the front since camber came out fine within specs

Murph's scenario seems to be very close to what I am seeing, really interested how he (she- figured it out.

Thanks.

Last edited by Acuralin; 01-01-2013 at 5:43 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 01-01-2013, 5:46 PM   #23
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I think this issue occurs depending on the wheel/tire combo. I was running Nitto Invo on my XXR's with no issues. Once I put them on my VS-XX, I noticed the issue.
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Old 03-03-2013, 3:04 PM   #24
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I have the same problem. 05 TL with RDX accessory wheels and Continental DWS tires. Had them on less the 2 years and the binding was showing. Back tires perfectly fine. Replaced both front and got an alignment $500. Tire shop said the specs were nearly on spot. They had no explanation. Anyone contact a dealer?
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Old 04-25-2013, 7:15 PM   #25
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I had this saem issue on my continental dws tires.....chords showing after 30k miles always rotated, figured it was camber, but had alignment done with new tires yesterday and within specs. Hopefully these toyo proxes p1 sports will wear better. IF not Im going back to michelins as much as i hate to pay for the name....
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Old 09-11-2014, 8:09 PM   #26
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Has anyone found a fix for this yet? I have had 4 alignment checks at 3 different shops, including the dealer. They all report that it is aligned within specs and they made no adjustments. No one can explain the tire wear.


Also, I noticed that the alignment procedure lists the toe as + 0.08inches whereas one shop listed my toe as degrees. This could add up to small, but maybe critical difference.
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Old 09-12-2014, 12:26 PM   #27
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All I can say is everyone NEEDS to look at the lower control arm bushings (number 10 in the diagram...Acura Parts @ AcuraOEMparts.com - Genuine Acura OEM Parts from Delray Acura). This is one of the most overlooked things on the TL and also one of the most commonly worn out suspension components on the car. I just feel they were made poorly from the factory and either wear out prematurely or just plain don't hold up for too long. From what I've read, this can lead to the car tracking wrong at higher speeds or cause almost like a bump steer effect at higher speeds when u run into grooves or uneven pavement. Kind of makes the car a little unpredictable on the highway. I just noticed my passenger side blown/separated the other day and haven't checked the driver side but I'm sure it's just about done too. Noticed a funky wear on my tires too (almost like they're scaling) but then again I'm pretty damn low so I kind of expect some sort of uneven wear especially since I'm running natural camber. Either way...not exactly sure if this is the exact cause but definitely worth looking at. DimwitRJ mentioned it in post #7. Going to change mine as soon as I have the spare cash and see what happens. Plan on swapping the oem bushings for these....PCI Spherical Bearing Kit Front LCA 04-08 Acura TSX | Password JDM
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Old 09-14-2014, 1:23 PM   #28
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Add me to the list. Had discount rotating tires. Inside edges all 4 now worn down. I have continental extreme contact dws on the car. It was aligned at my friends shop 2 years ago after a pot hole incident. In 30 years I never had a bad allignment from him, he always does my cars himself. Uggg I am getting old. The TL just turned 85k miles.
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Old 09-14-2014, 3:15 PM   #29
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Okay. Now I see the problem. The bushing starts to wear and the torque steer likely shifts the whole control arm causing misalignment while driving. Thanks beastUA6 for the link to the diagram. After I have a cardiac event from watching my Saints at Cleveland, I'll go check it closely. I have two speed shops locally that I should be able to rely on to do the work since the dealer isn't so close. Besides, they already had a shot at fixing it months ago when they replaced the struts.
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Old 09-14-2014, 4:51 PM   #30
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Mine reluctantly on Firestone rack right now. Alignment was f&$ked even though drove straight as an arrow. Need a new set of tires. Joy.
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Old 09-15-2014, 8:34 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhastmh View Post
Okay. Now I see the problem. The bushing starts to wear and the torque steer likely shifts the whole control arm causing misalignment while driving. Thanks beastUA6 for the link to the diagram. After I have a cardiac event from watching my Saints at Cleveland, I'll go check it closely. I have two speed shops locally that I should be able to rely on to do the work since the dealer isn't so close. Besides, they already had a shot at fixing it months ago when they replaced the struts.
Yeah man no worries. I just think a lot of people overlook this component. I definitely think it could have an impact on driving especially at highway speed even though your alignment numbers on the rack are within spec. The spherical style bearings that PCI makes to replace the rubber garbage that comes from the factory look promising. I just don't have the $280+shipping lying around to get them at the moment
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