Warm-up time?
02-05-2013, 05:59 PM
#41
Drifting
Dude,
I am dead serious, as this is a forum and no need for me to start a new thread. So I see no reason to ask a simple question that is related to the topic of this thread. My situation may not be as cold as other members during winter, but it was something I just wanted a little feedback on what I was facing once I first turn the car on.
I dont let it sit[Drive off], I already replaced the switches and my last 1x3 was around 10k miles ago. I am well aware of the tranny issues with the 04s and 05s.
Its roughly low to mid 30s in the early mornings so far, but since I live on a hill, right when I reverse and move forward to school I am going downhill, the car hasn't fully warmed up yet. That is where I feel the jerking going downhill, is it the grade logic system or something I should look for.
I was only concerned with the jerking feel when its shifting from 1st to 2nd down the hill as it never really did that in normal warmer temperature and never noticed it last winter. I am trying my best to avoid any kind of tranny failure, but once I hit the flat lands after my decline the car shifts fine, and it still hasnt warmed up yet.
I am dead serious, as this is a forum and no need for me to start a new thread. So I see no reason to ask a simple question that is related to the topic of this thread. My situation may not be as cold as other members during winter, but it was something I just wanted a little feedback on what I was facing once I first turn the car on.
I dont let it sit[Drive off], I already replaced the switches and my last 1x3 was around 10k miles ago. I am well aware of the tranny issues with the 04s and 05s.
Its roughly low to mid 30s in the early mornings so far, but since I live on a hill, right when I reverse and move forward to school I am going downhill, the car hasn't fully warmed up yet. That is where I feel the jerking going downhill, is it the grade logic system or something I should look for.
I was only concerned with the jerking feel when its shifting from 1st to 2nd down the hill as it never really did that in normal warmer temperature and never noticed it last winter. I am trying my best to avoid any kind of tranny failure, but once I hit the flat lands after my decline the car shifts fine, and it still hasnt warmed up yet.
02-05-2013, 06:59 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
Please accept my apology, I was being a jerk. OK, I have an 03 Durango AWD with 121K miles on it...if I go immediately after starting that tranny shifts roughly...if I wait 30 seconds until the fluid has gotten throughout the tranny it is much happier. My 08 TL with 61K, if I leave soon after starting and I am going slowly...at idle or a little quicker I have that noticeable shift from 1st to 2nd...I would say to you...just let the fluid get into the tranny lubing all before taking off. At low to mid 30s I would say temp is not an issue. Just the TL trannys.
I will try to sit and let it idle for a few minutes and see if that helps the shifts. My mom had a 2001 Durango SLT that had strange tire deflating problems, and her tranny was on its way out only after 2years of ownership bought brand new.
Same hard shifts I was kind of feeling in my car just had me worried of the tranny getting screwed up by the hills, since those were signs that my mom dealt with in her Durango. Warranty covered it, but my mom was just done with Dodge.
She traded it in and bought a new 2003 GMC Envoy XL SLT2 "fully loaded". So you can see why I am super observant of avoiding a costly repair.
02-05-2013, 07:28 PM
#43
Team Owner
The Tl pulls throttle on shifts except when cold. That coupled with cold thick fluid the shifts are a little on the harsh side.
The trans has full lube pretty much instantly. You have a very high volume high pressure hydraulic pump not to mention nothing is supposed to drain when it's off. There's a check valve to keep the converter from draining back into the pan when it's off so everything already has fluid when you start it.
A harsh shift doesn't hurt the trans. I've never been in a car that didn't shift harder when cold.
The trans has full lube pretty much instantly. You have a very high volume high pressure hydraulic pump not to mention nothing is supposed to drain when it's off. There's a check valve to keep the converter from draining back into the pan when it's off so everything already has fluid when you start it.
A harsh shift doesn't hurt the trans. I've never been in a car that didn't shift harder when cold.
02-05-2013, 07:46 PM
#44
Stay Out Of the Left Lane
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: SE Mass --- > Central VA --- > SE Mass
Age: 57
Posts: 8,953
Received 1,236 Likes
on
1,023 Posts
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/4213313
http://www.thedailygreen.com/living-...warming-up-car
http://www.thedailygreen.com/living-...warming-up-car
Last edited by NBP04TL4ME; 02-05-2013 at 07:49 PM. Reason: links not working
02-05-2013, 07:52 PM
#45
Team Owner
iTrader: (4)
I start the car through the passenger side while I am putting my coffee in the cup holder. Walk around, get in, buckle up and go. Maybe 30-60 seconds. Not usually more than that.
02-06-2013, 07:33 AM
#47
Team Owner
iTrader: (4)
IMO, 30-60 seconds of warm up and take it slow for the first couple miles is all you really need.
The following users liked this post:
simran4h (02-08-2013)
02-06-2013, 10:19 AM
#48
Team Owner
They missed a ton of valid points.
Green: Dead ass wrong about 30 seconds being needed to circulate oil. We're talking a second or less for full lube. Most areas are instant. The crank will float from residual oil the second it spins before the pressure gets there, cams are bathed in oil so it's there before the engine is started. If it took 30 seconds for oil to circulate we would be rebuilding every year or sooner.
I wouldn't trust anything from the California Energy Commission or Environmental Defense Fund. I think they just might, maybe had a hidden or not so hidden agenda.
They lie: The engine does not idle rich, WTF???
Shutting the engine off is better than idling? But if you go by their own statement it takes 30 seconds to get oil circulation. Your engine would be worn out the first time you drive across town and back lol.
Idling in the garage even with the door open can kill you.... Depends on the car. With the TL you would have to run it for hours to die even on a cold start. It's clean enough that it would have to burn all of the oxygen up. I true story that made me feel terrible... I tune the stereo every now and then with the laptop and if it's a loud tuning session I have the garage closed. I've run it for ovre an hour like that, no issues. I start it up in the morning and let it idle in the garage so it's warm when I drive it 5 minutes or less later. The fiancee sees me do this so she started doing it on her Murano which doesn't have the ULEV2 rating. She calls me and has a terrible headache. I asked her what she did different and when we finally got to the car idling for several minutes in the garage I told her to pull over, put it in park, and open the windows. I explained she can't do that in her car. Nonetheless, they make a broad generalization, some cars are perfectly fine to idle in the garage for a few minutes in the morning and the number of acceptable cars is increasing. Obviously those with the precat delets shouldn't do this.
"Block heaters beat remote starters" is a huge generalization leaving out the fact that 90% of the time warming up is better for everything but heater output. Block heaters are great but aren't cheap to install, you don't always have an outlet and they only warm up the coolant which is much better than nothing but they usually don't affect oil temp at all so the most important fluid is still stone cold. There are some great OEM tests with hot oil, cold water, cold water, hot oil, both hot, both cold in a very controlled environment. Power production and engine wear is measured. In drag racing everyone knows hot oil and cold coolant gets you down the track quicker.
"Idling is bad for your health" Idling takes very little fuel and with new cars they're still near stoich. My other car pulls less than 8gr of air per second at idle. The TL probaly uses less. In easy acceleration it's pulling nearly 100g. At 3psi boost it pegs the MAF at 255g and it has another 22psi to go. Idle is a very, very small amount of total pollution. Cars are a small percent of pollution compared to all other industry. So if idling is bad for your health, driving is a killer. They don't mention how incredibly clean todays cars are. I got my first smog check and hydrocarbons were at zero for my TL.
I could pick those things apart for days but I wouldn't believe anything from those sources.
The following users liked this post:
GKinColo08TL (02-06-2013)
02-06-2013, 04:38 PM
#50
Drifting
Popular Mechanics:
Idling in the garage even with the door open can kill you.... Depends on the car. With the TL you would have to run it for hours to die even on a cold start. It's clean enough that it would have to burn all of the oxygen up. I true story that made me feel terrible... I tune the stereo every now and then with the laptop and if it's a loud tuning session I have the garage closed. I've run it for ovre an hour like that, no issues. I start it up in the morning and let it idle in the garage so it's warm when I drive it 5 minutes or less later. The fiancee sees me do this so she started doing it on her Murano which doesn't have the ULEV2 rating. She calls me and has a terrible headache. I asked her what she did different and when we finally got to the car idling for several minutes in the garage I told her to pull over, put it in park, and open the windows. I explained she can't do that in her car. Nonetheless, they make a broad generalization, some cars are perfectly fine to idle in the garage for a few minutes in the morning and the number of acceptable cars is increasing. Obviously those with the precat delets shouldn't do this.
Idling in the garage even with the door open can kill you.... Depends on the car. With the TL you would have to run it for hours to die even on a cold start. It's clean enough that it would have to burn all of the oxygen up. I true story that made me feel terrible... I tune the stereo every now and then with the laptop and if it's a loud tuning session I have the garage closed. I've run it for ovre an hour like that, no issues. I start it up in the morning and let it idle in the garage so it's warm when I drive it 5 minutes or less later. The fiancee sees me do this so she started doing it on her Murano which doesn't have the ULEV2 rating. She calls me and has a terrible headache. I asked her what she did different and when we finally got to the car idling for several minutes in the garage I told her to pull over, put it in park, and open the windows. I explained she can't do that in her car. Nonetheless, they make a broad generalization, some cars are perfectly fine to idle in the garage for a few minutes in the morning and the number of acceptable cars is increasing. Obviously those with the precat delets shouldn't do this.
02-06-2013, 05:04 PM
#51
Team Owner
I agree and in no way am I recommending anyone do so. I've monitored 02, CO, even LEL and H2S in the garage. You're not going to have to worry about Nox at idle unless something is seriously screwed up. But yeah, not recommended. Even if it has a few misfires it will have a ton more pollution.
The following users liked this post:
GKinColo08TL (02-06-2013)
02-06-2013, 07:29 PM
#52
takin care of Business in
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Age: 40
Posts: 30,994
Received 4,732 Likes
on
4,064 Posts
^^^ 
IHC Thanks for the posts, I know you have mentioned it before since I had a feeling of Deja Vu as I was reading through your post....
I usually park very close to the garage door, in the morning start the car up, open the garage door, go back in the house, put my shoes on, put my jacket on (30-60 seconds)....go to the car hit reverse....I go easy on the car till I get out of my subdivision and then
at times I kinda rev her up on a cold idle to hear a misfire/backfire from the true dual....bliss
IHC Thanks for the posts, I know you have mentioned it before since I had a feeling of Deja Vu as I was reading through your post....
I usually park very close to the garage door, in the morning start the car up, open the garage door, go back in the house, put my shoes on, put my jacket on (30-60 seconds)....go to the car hit reverse....I go easy on the car till I get out of my subdivision and then
at times I kinda rev her up on a cold idle to hear a misfire/backfire from the true dual....bliss
02-06-2013, 08:13 PM
#54
takin care of Business in
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Age: 40
Posts: 30,994
Received 4,732 Likes
on
4,064 Posts
Manual also states to follow the MID for oil changes which I dont 
I think its just good habit like turning off the lights/ac/radio/other electicals before you turn the car off
I think its just good habit like turning off the lights/ac/radio/other electicals before you turn the car off
The following users liked this post:
JJH (02-06-2013)
02-06-2013, 08:16 PM
#55
If I used regular conventional oil, I would definitely follow it. I didn't know that it was good practice to turn off the electricals...guess you learn something new everyday!
02-07-2013, 04:54 AM
#56
Can't stand the mid. Can't stand it even more when people post thier mpg's from it thinking its totally accurate. I've found on highway only drives that thing has been up to 4 or 5 mpg's off. I will say however with my commute to work every week and daily city driving its accurate. My average mph is around 33 mph then.
02-07-2013, 08:47 AM
#57
Can't stand the mid. Can't stand it even more when people post thier mpg's from it thinking its totally accurate. I've found on highway only drives that thing has been up to 4 or 5 mpg's off. I will say however with my commute to work every week and daily city driving its accurate. My average mph is around 33 mph then.
02-07-2013, 08:48 AM
#58
Senior Moderator
Popular Mechanics: Clearances are no tighter today than the were in the 60s. The "pistons plugging up" is probably in reference to the parrafin in old oils that would build up in those conditions.
They missed a ton of valid points.
Green: Dead ass wrong about 30 seconds being needed to circulate oil. We're talking a second or less for full lube. Most areas are instant. The crank will float from residual oil the second it spins before the pressure gets there, cams are bathed in oil so it's there before the engine is started. If it took 30 seconds for oil to circulate we would be rebuilding every year or sooner.
I wouldn't trust anything from the California Energy Commission or Environmental Defense Fund. I think they just might, maybe had a hidden or not so hidden agenda.
They lie: The engine does not idle rich, WTF???
Shutting the engine off is better than idling? But if you go by their own statement it takes 30 seconds to get oil circulation. Your engine would be worn out the first time you drive across town and back lol.
Idling in the garage even with the door open can kill you.... Depends on the car. With the TL you would have to run it for hours to die even on a cold start. It's clean enough that it would have to burn all of the oxygen up. I true story that made me feel terrible... I tune the stereo every now and then with the laptop and if it's a loud tuning session I have the garage closed. I've run it for ovre an hour like that, no issues. I start it up in the morning and let it idle in the garage so it's warm when I drive it 5 minutes or less later. The fiancee sees me do this so she started doing it on her Murano which doesn't have the ULEV2 rating. She calls me and has a terrible headache. I asked her what she did different and when we finally got to the car idling for several minutes in the garage I told her to pull over, put it in park, and open the windows. I explained she can't do that in her car. Nonetheless, they make a broad generalization, some cars are perfectly fine to idle in the garage for a few minutes in the morning and the number of acceptable cars is increasing. Obviously those with the precat delets shouldn't do this.
"Block heaters beat remote starters" is a huge generalization leaving out the fact that 90% of the time warming up is better for everything but heater output. Block heaters are great but aren't cheap to install, you don't always have an outlet and they only warm up the coolant which is much better than nothing but they usually don't affect oil temp at all so the most important fluid is still stone cold. There are some great OEM tests with hot oil, cold water, cold water, hot oil, both hot, both cold in a very controlled environment. Power production and engine wear is measured. In drag racing everyone knows hot oil and cold coolant gets you down the track quicker.
"Idling is bad for your health" Idling takes very little fuel and with new cars they're still near stoich. My other car pulls less than 8gr of air per second at idle. The TL probaly uses less. In easy acceleration it's pulling nearly 100g. At 3psi boost it pegs the MAF at 255g and it has another 22psi to go. Idle is a very, very small amount of total pollution. Cars are a small percent of pollution compared to all other industry. So if idling is bad for your health, driving is a killer. They don't mention how incredibly clean todays cars are. I got my first smog check and hydrocarbons were at zero for my TL.
I could pick those things apart for days but I wouldn't believe anything from those sources.
They missed a ton of valid points.
Green: Dead ass wrong about 30 seconds being needed to circulate oil. We're talking a second or less for full lube. Most areas are instant. The crank will float from residual oil the second it spins before the pressure gets there, cams are bathed in oil so it's there before the engine is started. If it took 30 seconds for oil to circulate we would be rebuilding every year or sooner.
I wouldn't trust anything from the California Energy Commission or Environmental Defense Fund. I think they just might, maybe had a hidden or not so hidden agenda.
They lie: The engine does not idle rich, WTF???
Shutting the engine off is better than idling? But if you go by their own statement it takes 30 seconds to get oil circulation. Your engine would be worn out the first time you drive across town and back lol.
Idling in the garage even with the door open can kill you.... Depends on the car. With the TL you would have to run it for hours to die even on a cold start. It's clean enough that it would have to burn all of the oxygen up. I true story that made me feel terrible... I tune the stereo every now and then with the laptop and if it's a loud tuning session I have the garage closed. I've run it for ovre an hour like that, no issues. I start it up in the morning and let it idle in the garage so it's warm when I drive it 5 minutes or less later. The fiancee sees me do this so she started doing it on her Murano which doesn't have the ULEV2 rating. She calls me and has a terrible headache. I asked her what she did different and when we finally got to the car idling for several minutes in the garage I told her to pull over, put it in park, and open the windows. I explained she can't do that in her car. Nonetheless, they make a broad generalization, some cars are perfectly fine to idle in the garage for a few minutes in the morning and the number of acceptable cars is increasing. Obviously those with the precat delets shouldn't do this.
"Block heaters beat remote starters" is a huge generalization leaving out the fact that 90% of the time warming up is better for everything but heater output. Block heaters are great but aren't cheap to install, you don't always have an outlet and they only warm up the coolant which is much better than nothing but they usually don't affect oil temp at all so the most important fluid is still stone cold. There are some great OEM tests with hot oil, cold water, cold water, hot oil, both hot, both cold in a very controlled environment. Power production and engine wear is measured. In drag racing everyone knows hot oil and cold coolant gets you down the track quicker.
"Idling is bad for your health" Idling takes very little fuel and with new cars they're still near stoich. My other car pulls less than 8gr of air per second at idle. The TL probaly uses less. In easy acceleration it's pulling nearly 100g. At 3psi boost it pegs the MAF at 255g and it has another 22psi to go. Idle is a very, very small amount of total pollution. Cars are a small percent of pollution compared to all other industry. So if idling is bad for your health, driving is a killer. They don't mention how incredibly clean todays cars are. I got my first smog check and hydrocarbons were at zero for my TL.
I could pick those things apart for days but I wouldn't believe anything from those sources.
My car for work typically idles all day when not actually being driven down the road. It is FAR easier on it to idle than to shut off and start as much as i would have to. In a typical 8hr day of work i will use less than 1/4 gallon gas (and that includes AC or Heat on driving in between )
There is nothing wrong nor will it hurt it letting the car idle to warm up should you want the car blowing warm air when you get in it in the winter.
02-07-2013, 08:53 AM
#59
Uhh what are you talking about? Basic math is easy. Miles traveled divided by gallons pumped=mpg. Dead accurate every time. More accurate then the mid. As a matter of fact you really can't get anymore accurate then that.
02-07-2013, 09:14 AM
#61
Team Owner
Hand calculations are succeptable to pump cutoff point and other things. Most people find that as they run the average out over thousands of miles, the hand calculations and MID are very close. Unless something was done to throw the calculation off like different diameter tires, it's extremely accurate. Different stations and even different pumps at the same station can have drastically different cutoff points, more than a gallon sometimes.
02-07-2013, 09:29 AM
#62
AZ Community Team
+1
Just take it easy on the throttle until the engine is up to normal operating temp.
Alot of good comments in this thread.
02-07-2013, 09:41 AM
#63
No I'm not. So what you're saying is you have no clue and you're taking into account something you don't know about. Oh that's right it's the Internet, everything you read on the Internet is true.
02-07-2013, 09:48 AM
#64
Hand calculations are succeptable to pump cutoff point and other things. Most people find that as they run the average out over thousands of miles, the hand calculations and MID are very close. Unless something was done to throw the calculation off like different diameter tires, it's extremely accurate. Different stations and even different pumps at the same station can have drastically different cutoff points, more than a gallon sometimes.
The following users liked this post:
GKinColo08TL (02-07-2013)
02-07-2013, 09:50 AM
#66
BANNED
iTrader: (33)
i don't know anyone who uses the SAME pump at the SAME gas station everytime they fill up.
what a luxury!
what a luxury!
The following users liked this post:
THEReeM718 (02-07-2013)
02-07-2013, 10:00 AM
#67
02-07-2013, 10:03 AM
#69
I never said every time. But I like that you try and put words into my mouth. I would say in a given year maybe only 5 or 6 other fill ups are at a different gas station. It's called planning ahead.
02-07-2013, 10:04 AM
#70
BANNED
iTrader: (33)
The following users liked this post:
GKinColo08TL (02-07-2013)
The following users liked this post:
GKinColo08TL (02-07-2013)
The following users liked this post:
GKinColo08TL (02-07-2013)
02-07-2013, 10:06 AM
#74
BANNED
iTrader: (33)
02-07-2013, 10:08 AM
#75
02-07-2013, 10:12 AM
#76
Great it's blow job time again.
Anyway my point is displays are always a general thing. He'll I can go into the computer on Subaru's and +- it I believe up to 8% if someone complains about the wrong number coming up on the screen. Subaru guys claim it's accurate as well. Lol
Does anyone actually have some info on how Hondas mid calculates it and even if it can be changed through their diagnostic computer?
Anyway my point is displays are always a general thing. He'll I can go into the computer on Subaru's and +- it I believe up to 8% if someone complains about the wrong number coming up on the screen. Subaru guys claim it's accurate as well. Lol
Does anyone actually have some info on how Hondas mid calculates it and even if it can be changed through their diagnostic computer?
02-07-2013, 10:19 AM
#79