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Old 02-04-2013, 7:46 PM   #1
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Warm-up time?

Been reading around, and I've seen people say letting your car warm up longer than a couple minutes is overkill and does more harm than good. Being about 5 degrees in the mornings here in Ohio, i let my TL warm up for a good 10 minutes to get everything lubricated & moving before taking off. How long do you let your TL warm up for?
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Old 02-04-2013, 7:51 PM   #2
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I don't. I start it and pretty much go. I keep the RPMs down until the needle on the temp guage starts to climb. I have a 6 speed.
I have pretty much always done this.
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Old 02-04-2013, 7:57 PM   #3
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turn key and go .. just dont go WOT until its up to temp
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Old 02-04-2013, 7:59 PM   #4
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In my experience and what I've read (Book: Drive It Forever), it is much more effective warming your car up while driving it gently for the first few minutes--this brings it up to operating temperature much faster than idling it.

It is a good idea to always very briefly let it idle for just 15 seconds or so prior to driving (or perhaps 30-60 seconds on a very cold day) to let the oil pump fill the oil galleries. Longer than this is not good for an engine, and can create valve deposits. Revving it while in park or neutral is even harder on the engine.

I always try drive my cars gently for a couple of minutes until warmed up, and they have rewarded me by lasting a very long time without burning oil. If it's super cold where you live, you might also consider an engine block heater that you plug overnight, and keeps the oil nice and warm for start up.
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Old 02-04-2013, 8:06 PM   #5
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Thanks guys! Ill have to not let it warm up as long. I just like it to be nice & toasty when i get in Also, kind OT, my driver side heat doesnt get as hot as the passenger side? Is this normal?
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Old 02-04-2013, 8:13 PM   #6
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The TL stays in the garage in the winter, but the other cars have remote starters and they idle everyday in cold weather, for 15-20 minutes before driving. Have had remote starters since early 90's and have never encountered a problem. Waste of gas, but great to get into a warm car.
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Old 02-04-2013, 8:50 PM   #7
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The manual actually says that it is completely unnecessary to let the car warm up. I can quote the pages if you would like.
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Old 02-04-2013, 9:11 PM   #8
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it takes oxygen sensors 30 seconds to warm up. so my answer is.... 30 seconds.
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Old 02-04-2013, 9:26 PM   #9
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Allowing a vehicle to warm up for the sake of the vehicle is 100% a waste of time and gas and as stated does no good for your car. If you do it because you dont have a garage and your car sits outside at night thats fine, but only because you dont want to freeze in the car until it warms up inside. The best thing for the cars sake is to start the car and drive right away. Obviously you want to drive normally until all fluids have plenty of time to get to operating temperature.
The other thing that I hate to read is when people store a car for extended periods and start the car and let it idle for a long time. You absolutely do not want to do this. If your going to store the car the best thing you can do for it is to just let it be and ONLY start it if your going to be able to drive it and get all the fluids up to normal operating temp.
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Old 02-04-2013, 9:33 PM   #10
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Would it be safe to say that a harsh shift from 1st to 2nd on a cold start moving down a steep hill is normal? Have an 5AT

Every morning I have that happen, and I am not even tapping the pedal to rev it, just light tap and let momentum/gravity do its thing in a hilly residential neighborhood driving to school. Braking as needed.

I just feel like its messing up my trans because of this cold weather and hills in my San Diego neighborhood. I am due for another drain/fill soon. Thoughts?
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Old 02-04-2013, 9:50 PM   #11
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I just let it idle for 2 mins then drive it but I keep the RPM under 3.5k at all time until that temp needle is past 20% of the gauge.
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Old 02-04-2013, 9:57 PM   #12
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With those kinds of temps the best way to give the engine a break is a block heater. I plug in at home and work and it does wonders to preheat the engine bay in well below freezing temps. In a garage without freezing air blasting at the car, the water temp is usually sitting around 110-140F after about 3-4 hours of preheating. It also inevitably warms the intake manifold, throttle body, transmission, oil, battery, and P/S to some extent. The car starts much easier, starts warming the cabin much earlier, uses less fuel, causes less wear, and drives much nicer.

You can swing for a beefy 1500W unit that will warm the engine up quick, but the OEM 400W unit bolts right in, can't really overheat the engine, and works fairly well. Unless it's well below 0F or so, just set up a timer and extension cord so it comes on a few hours before you leave in the morning. Then you just plug it in when you get home, or before you go to bed and wake up to a warmish car.

The car is usually parked in a heated garage with a block heater and front grillblock in winter. I usually idle until the nav boots up and then back out. When its very cold outside I shift around 1.5K and keep it below 2K until the water temp reads on the C, then I stay below 3K until the thermostat opens at least twice. From there I rely more on IAT's. I'm probably the kind of guy you'd want to buy a used car from.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:35 PM   #13
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When I lived in a cold climate in my younger years, I would simply start and go and keep it easy on motor until it is warmed up. I'm sure the engine block heaters would help a lot but it sounds like a hassle plugging in all the time. I would invest in a stronger seat heater if I were you guys in the cold climates- the Acura seat heaters are not nearly as strong as our old Subaru Outback heaters. I could start our Subi in Mammoth Mountain and have noticeable warmth from those heaters the first block out from the lodge which was impressive.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:42 PM   #14
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Zom, I'm the same way, I take care of my cars and they take care of me. I had a engine block heater in my Honda when I lived in PA and parked it outside. It just screws into a block drain plug, then gets plugged in. Luketic, this sounds like a great option for you for those wintery Ohio nights --the car heater works almost instantly because the water jacket is kept very warm. This is also great for engine longevity because cold starts are the biggest part of engine wear.

I remember long ago starting a Civic when it was -26 in Pittsburgh. Looking back that was a cruel thing to do. Darn thing started after a while though--pretty amazing.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandoTL View Post
Would it be safe to say that a harsh shift from 1st to 2nd on a cold start moving down a steep hill is normal? Have an 5AT

Every morning I have that happen, and I am not even tapping the pedal to rev it, just light tap and let momentum/gravity do its thing in a hilly residential neighborhood driving to school. Braking as needed.

I just feel like its messing up my trans because of this cold weather and hills in my San Diego neighborhood. I am due for another drain/fill soon. Thoughts?
Dude...seriously, cold mornings in San Diego? What did it get "down" to this winter, 32* perhaps? Try driving in below zero weather, that is cold. As for your tranny, you have an 05, they have tranny issues...do a 3 x 3 and change your switches although those switches are 3rd and 4th gear, not 1st and 2nd, so the 3 x 3 should help. I think guys with the 04s and 05s change their tranny fluid more often than recommended. Good luck and do stay warm.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:34 AM   #16
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Dude...seriously, cold mornings in San Diego? What did it get "down" to this winter, 32* perhaps? Try driving in below zero weather, that is cold. As for your tranny, you have an 05, they have tranny issues...do a 3 x 3 and change your switches although those switches are 3rd and 4th gear, not 1st and 2nd, so the 3 x 3 should help. I think guys with the 04s and 05s change their tranny fluid more often than recommended. Good luck and do stay warm.
Dude,
I am dead serious, as this is a forum and no need for me to start a new thread. So I see no reason to ask a simple question that is related to the topic of this thread. My situation may not be as cold as other members during winter, but it was something I just wanted a little feedback on what I was facing once I first turn the car on.

I dont let it sit[Drive off], I already replaced the switches and my last 1x3 was around 10k miles ago. I am well aware of the tranny issues with the 04s and 05s.

Its roughly low to mid 30s in the early mornings so far, but since I live on a hill, right when I reverse and move forward to school I am going downhill, the car hasn't fully warmed up yet. That is where I feel the jerking going downhill, is it the grade logic system or something I should look for.

I was only concerned with the jerking feel when its shifting from 1st to 2nd down the hill as it never really did that in normal warmer temperature and never noticed it last winter. I am trying my best to avoid any kind of tranny failure, but once I hit the flat lands after my decline the car shifts fine, and it still hasnt warmed up yet.
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Old 02-05-2013, 4:29 AM   #17
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I have always let ALL my vehicles warm up (for the past 15 years).

I do it everyday in the winter months. During the summer i just crank it and wait till the NAVI screen OK button dissapears. My 99 TL has had this treatment for 10.5 years now with no issues (190k miles) and my wife has an 02 camry that has been treated the same way with 200,000 miles on it.

actually, I have my car cranked right now, and it will idle around 5 minutes before i leave today. Only 34 degress outside right now. If I have ice on my windows, I have let the car idle 10+ minutes before.

OP, no harm in what your doing. And your heated seat may have a wire that has burnt through, causing it not to heat up properly. there is a DIY around here somewhere discussing this issue.
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Old 02-05-2013, 6:23 AM   #18
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Pretty much what everyone else has stated although to me it's nowhere as big of a deal as warming up a turbo car before you start hammering it. You gotta remember you're driving an na 6 cylinder that is built pretty well. You're not going to blow up your car if you jump in it and just drive like a normal person.

op honestly who cares about proper warm up. If I didn't park my car in the garage and it was 5 degrees my car would be sitting there warming up for 20 min with the heat blasting just like you. My comfort in the morning is more important. These cars are honda's not race cars.
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Old 02-05-2013, 7:24 AM   #19
 
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^awesome answer, supraru.
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Old 02-05-2013, 7:33 AM   #20
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it gets to be around 15* around here and i let my car warm up for up to 20 mins sometimes, usually when the windows have ice on them. its to damn cold to be getting in the car and shivering all the way to work in the AM for me. So i got a remote start and im happy
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Old 02-05-2013, 7:37 AM   #21
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I believe this conversation got brought up in my thread, Since then I just have gotten in my car, turn on my seat warmer, and wait about a minute and start driving. I dont think it really matters which way you do things whether u let it sit or you just start up and take off. Its all in your preference. I prefer not to freeze my ass off when I get in my car.
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Old 02-05-2013, 7:37 AM   #22
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^awesome answer, supraru.
Well I contributed unlike you have troll boy.
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Old 02-05-2013, 7:38 AM   #23
 
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^okay, I gave you a compliment and you're gonna throw it in my face....
Just so you know, i was agreeing with you.


back to calling you just subpar.
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Old 02-05-2013, 7:40 AM   #24
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Pretty much what everyone else has stated although to me it's nowhere as big of a deal as warming up a turbo car before you start hammering it. You gotta remember you're driving an na 6 cylinder that is built pretty well. You're not going to blow up your car if you jump in it and just drive like a normal person.

op honestly who cares about proper warm up. If I didn't park my car in the garage and it was 5 degrees my car would be sitting there warming up for 20 min with the heat blasting just like you. My comfort in the morning is more important. These cars are honda's not race cars.
if you keep your engine idling for 20 minutes heat blasting, you're forcing the engine to operate in a very inefficient and gasoline-rich mode that, over time, can degrade the engine's performance and reduce gas mileage. not to mention, idling that long is just costing you money. you can also ruin cats/exhaust components by letting it sit for such a long period of time.

i'm all about comfort too, nothing better than getting into a warm car on a frigid day...but i think 20 mins is a little excessive. just my opinion.
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Old 02-05-2013, 7:54 AM   #25
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^okay, I gave you a compliment and you're gonna throw it in my face....
Just so you know, i was agreeing with you.


back to calling you just subpar.
Yeah ok....I know sarcasm when I see it. You have nothing good to say to me ever so why start now.
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Old 02-05-2013, 7:56 AM   #26
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^how can you know sarcasm through words on a screen?

i think he was being genuine, because you did give good advice.

let your gaurd down bro.
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Old 02-05-2013, 7:58 AM   #27
 
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LOL, dude. I spelled your name right.
if you notice, when im making fun of you, I spell it Subpar.But i dont think you were smart enough to notice.

also, I agree with you.
if i lived in a city where it got super cold, creature comforts would outweigh ther negative effects to idle my car that long.
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Old 02-05-2013, 8:11 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by SharksBreath View Post
if you keep your engine idling for 20 minutes heat blasting, you're forcing the engine to operate in a very inefficient and gasoline-rich mode that, over time, can degrade the engine's performance and reduce gas mileage. not to mention, idling that long is just costing you money. you can also ruin cats/exhaust components by letting it sit for such a long period of time.

i'm all about comfort too, nothing better than getting into a warm car on a frigid day...but i think 20 mins is a little excessive. just my opinion.
I'm not disagreeing that 20 min is to much but as you read my post it was in reference to the op saying only my iPhone got the best of me and my finger must have hit the 20 instead of the 10 like he stated. If it was 5 out you're damn righ that car is gonna have some sort of warmth before I hop in.

It really boils down to preference. In modern cars I wouldn't worry about it. Sure maybe a car could be a little better off giving it a 1 min warm up opposed to a 10 min warm up. Like I said its a Honda man, it will last no matter how you warm it up.
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Old 02-05-2013, 8:13 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by justnspace View Post
LOL, dude. I spelled your name right.
if you notice, when im making fun of you, I spell it Subpar.But i dont think you were smart enough to notice.

also, I agree with you.
if i lived in a city where it got super cold, creature comforts would outweigh ther negative effects to idle my car that long.
Ok I get it now. Sincere justin it's supraru, antagonizing justin it's subpar. Dually noted.
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Old 02-05-2013, 8:14 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by SharksBreath View Post
^how can you know sarcasm through words on a screen?

i think he was being genuine, because you did give good advice.

let your gaurd down bro.
Can you blame me? Lol
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Old 02-05-2013, 8:19 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by SharksBreath View Post
if you keep your engine idling for 20 minutes heat blasting, you're forcing the engine to operate in a very inefficient and gasoline-rich mode that, over time, can degrade the engine's performance and reduce gas mileage. not to mention, idling that long is just costing you money. you can also ruin cats/exhaust components by letting it sit for such a long period of time.

i'm all about comfort too, nothing better than getting into a warm car on a frigid day...but i think 20 mins is a little excessive. just my opinion.
Maybe with the old carb equipped cars, but with the modern technology and FI system, the management system will control idle/mixture properly and do no harm to the cats. Naturally it will reduce mileage as the vehicle is at a standstill and fuel is being consumed and in winter, the mileage drops @ 4 mpg down to 26.

In cold weather when making a quick stop to run into a store, I just remove the key and let the car idle. As the car/interior doesn't cool down, no use of the starter or blower needed to run on high to get it warm again.

If one enjoys getting into a freezing cold car and drive, that's fine, but as I like a warm vehicle, I even start the car before leaving a restaurant, movie, etc.
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Old 02-05-2013, 8:20 AM   #32
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^one of the reason why i'm glad i have no cats on my car too.
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Old 02-05-2013, 8:32 AM   #33
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It hasn't gone above 20 degrees here in the morning for a few weeks, I just start it and go on my way. Once the temp gauge goes up a click enjoy the cold air with some WOT and no heat soak.
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Old 02-05-2013, 9:32 AM   #34
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I've gone into detail in other similar threads so I'm not going to anymore. For full throttle the engine should be thoroughly warm. Coolant warms up quick, oil warms up slow and may never hit the 160 degree minimum from idling.

With fuel injection and wideband 02s you're not shortening the life of the engine by idling it.

Lubrication is instant, this is not a valid reason to warm it up before driving but it's not a bad idea to have it warm enough for the oil additives to become effective and the oil thin enough before driving hard.

The piston to cyinder wall clearances are what changes the most from cold to hot. Pistons will rock in the bore more when cold, it's possible to get some scuffing of the skirts and walls if driven hard when dead cold but not likely since the TL is not forced induction, pistons are not forged, so piston to cylinder clearance is pretty tight already.

Most cold mornings I'll start mine up and let it idle in the garage for a few minutes before I'm ready to leave. I don't always warm it up because there's not traffic at that time of the morning and I can drive as easy as I want to. Coming home I make sure to give it some warm up time because it's not abnormal to have to go half throttle when pulling out of work.

My other car illustrates the piston to cylinder clearances nicely. There's a lot of piston to cylinder clearance due to the dense forged JEs and expected high temps. It sounds like a diesel when cold and the noise slowly goes away as it warms up. I let that one idle till it's warm and most of the slap is gone. The TL has never had any piston slap but I've heard of a couple cases here.
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Old 02-05-2013, 9:37 AM   #35
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^ Thanks for the info.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:58 AM   #36
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First use synthetic oil if its really cold around you. It tends to say more fluid in extreme temperatures. Other than that, I usually start it, put on my seat belt, and go. I'll go easy on it until I see the temp gauge begin to move. From everything I've ever read on the subject from reputable sources anything more than a minute or two and you're just wasting gas.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:48 AM   #37
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I'm used to much higher specific output engines but typically you want the core temp to be stable before running it full out. The water warms up very quickly, the gauge can be at the full 190 or so while oil is at 90 degrees and the block, specifically the valley is near ambient. Ever notice that if you dive the car a few miles the water gets up to full temp but when you go into a store for 20 minutes and come out the gauge is barely registering if at all. If you take a 45 minute trip you can walk away for 20 minutes and the temp is at or near normal operating temp. The TL probably doesn't make enough power to be concerned with complete saturation but the water temp gauge barely registering is not high enough IMO because the oil is still cold and piston to cylinder clearances haven't stabilized. Again, on a TL it's not the end of the world but its not good practice.
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Old 02-05-2013, 1:29 PM   #38
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It takes my car anywhere from 30-60 seconds for the exhaust tone to quiet down. When that happens I start driving, but gently until it's up to temp.
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Old 02-05-2013, 3:11 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by I hate cars View Post
I'm used to much higher specific output engines but typically you want the core temp to be stable before running it full out. The water warms up very quickly, the gauge can be at the full 190 or so while oil is at 90 degrees and the block, specifically the valley is near ambient. Ever notice that if you dive the car a few miles the water gets up to full temp but when you go into a store for 20 minutes and come out the gauge is barely registering if at all. If you take a 45 minute trip you can walk away for 20 minutes and the temp is at or near normal operating temp. The TL probably doesn't make enough power to be concerned with complete saturation but the water temp gauge barely registering is not high enough IMO because the oil is still cold and piston to cylinder clearances haven't stabilized. Again, on a TL it's not the end of the world but its not good practice.
Not saying I go out and thrash it, but I drive normally at that point. I wouldn't try to pull hot laps until its fully warm.
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Old 02-05-2013, 3:28 PM   #40
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just jump in the TL, start it and go! It's HAMMERTIME!!
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