The Optimal Percentage of Racing ATF
01-21-2012, 02:12 PM
#281
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I will let Tim answer your question but what i believe is to bring drastic changes to the tranny in a slow manner....
your going from Z1 which has a ton of FM's to a 3x3 Lightweight hence 65-67% no FM fluid to flush with DW1 which has a lot of FM's (more than Redline and we are assuming less than Z1)....
its like going from a no carb diet to full on carb to less carb very quickly....
I did a 4x3 with Redline Type F (hence 87% of new fluid) and i dont have flaring (i have not documented as many miles as you have....i believe you have driven a lot to Rodney and back LOL....
I DONT see any harm in mixing DW1 to the redline mixture to get to the optimal percentage of FM's (instead of mixing D4 to type F to lightweight....you can mix DW1 to type F to lightweight) but am unsure of how the tranny will handle this change....
if i were you, i would keep it on DW1 for 15-20K miles and then flush out the complete DW1 for the Redline smoothie.....
your going from Z1 which has a ton of FM's to a 3x3 Lightweight hence 65-67% no FM fluid to flush with DW1 which has a lot of FM's (more than Redline and we are assuming less than Z1)....
its like going from a no carb diet to full on carb to less carb very quickly....
I did a 4x3 with Redline Type F (hence 87% of new fluid) and i dont have flaring (i have not documented as many miles as you have....i believe you have driven a lot to Rodney and back LOL....
I DONT see any harm in mixing DW1 to the redline mixture to get to the optimal percentage of FM's (instead of mixing D4 to type F to lightweight....you can mix DW1 to type F to lightweight) but am unsure of how the tranny will handle this change....
if i were you, i would keep it on DW1 for 15-20K miles and then flush out the complete DW1 for the Redline smoothie.....
01-21-2012, 10:22 PM
#282
Burning Brakes
yeah I have driven alot
and I understand how if introduced all at once it would have some type of affect but I didn't do 3x3 all at once I slowly introduced it and I put roughly 8k or so with just the lightweight stuff before the flaring began...mostly highway driven
.....But yeah I also drive in SS mode often and control the shifting so maybe it took longer for me to notice the flaring and the seriousness of it as it would only act real crazy while in Drove mode when downshifting jerks/thuds.....but yeah I am going to slowly introduce the Redline stuff back in there just wanted to get a confirm with InACC on how he felt about reusing the Lightweight stuff I originally had in there. Oh and not to mention it was a freshly rebuilt trans so possibly using the lightweight fluid right away it did not let the trans fully break in with the OEM fluid and the FM's in the oem fluid!
and I understand how if introduced all at once it would have some type of affect but I didn't do 3x3 all at once I slowly introduced it and I put roughly 8k or so with just the lightweight stuff before the flaring began...mostly highway driven .....But yeah I also drive in SS mode often and control the shifting so maybe it took longer for me to notice the flaring and the seriousness of it as it would only act real crazy while in Drove mode when downshifting jerks/thuds.....but yeah I am going to slowly introduce the Redline stuff back in there just wanted to get a confirm with InACC on how he felt about reusing the Lightweight stuff I originally had in there. Oh and not to mention it was a freshly rebuilt trans so possibly using the lightweight fluid right away it did not let the trans fully break in with the OEM fluid and the FM's in the oem fluid!
01-21-2012, 10:29 PM
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^^^ i meant the interval between 3x3...so you did a drain and refill, drove 5 minutes and drain and refill or you did a drain and refill and drove 200 miles and then another drain and refill....
i did my 4x3 with Type F over 3K miles....1000 miles between every drain and refill....this might not have a big effect or seem big, but i think when you switch something, you should give the car a taste of whats coming....helps the car to catch up....sorry i treat my car like a live person LOL
PS: i drive in SS mode 100% of the time....doing that since 100K miles....160K on the odometer now 
i did my 4x3 with Type F over 3K miles....1000 miles between every drain and refill....this might not have a big effect or seem big, but i think when you switch something, you should give the car a taste of whats coming....helps the car to catch up....sorry i treat my car like a live person LOL
PS: i drive in SS mode 100% of the time....doing that since 100K miles
....160K on the odometer now
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BostonSilverTypeS (01-21-2012)
01-21-2012, 11:19 PM
#284
Burning Brakes
^^^ i meant the interval between 3x3...so you did a drain and refill, drove 5 minutes and drain and refill or you did a drain and refill and drove 200 miles and then another drain and refill....
i did my 4x3 with Type F over 3K miles....1000 miles between every drain and refill....this might not have a big effect or seem big, but i think when you switch something, you should give the car a taste of whats coming....helps the car to catch up....sorry i treat my car like a live person LOL
PS: i drive in SS mode 100% of the time....doing that since 100K miles....160K on the odometer now
i did my 4x3 with Type F over 3K miles....1000 miles between every drain and refill....this might not have a big effect or seem big, but i think when you switch something, you should give the car a taste of whats coming....helps the car to catch up....sorry i treat my car like a live person LOL
PS: i drive in SS mode 100% of the time....doing that since 100K miles
....160K on the odometer now Funny story is when I was down @ Rodney's, both Rodney and Doc went on test drive's and they could not believe how the auto shifted so much like a manual
!!!
01-21-2012, 11:40 PM
#285
Team Owner
Did a drain and refill every other week until i had 3x3 done. so in between it would be close to 100 miles between city/highway driving and making sure i would always hit all gears upshifting and downshifting....But Like I stated my situation is on the extreme though cuz I chose to go with the Redline ATF lightweight only and bypass the Redline TypeF....But it's fixed now and I'm glad I did it and showed me how it feels shifting spot on.....
Funny story is when I was down @ Rodney's, both Rodney and Doc went on test drive's and they could not believe how the auto shifted so much like a manual!!!
Funny story is when I was down @ Rodney's, both Rodney and Doc went on test drive's and they could not believe how the auto shifted so much like a manual
!!!
01-21-2012, 11:59 PM
#286
Safety Car
Thread Starter
@ BostonSilverTypeS
Provided that you were careful to not get grit and crime into the old Lightweight fluid, it is okay to reuse it. From the conditions that were occurring previously, the old Lightweight fluid would just have clutch powder and super fine metal shaving in it, which would had been circulating in the trans anyways. So, throwing the old Lightweight back in there will be ok.
I have reverse my feeling about pure lightweight. Too realistic (or too paranoid) to cause undue wear to the pump. My feelings now are to compromise a bit of parasitic loss to ensure that the pump does not wear-out prematurely. I am now running with a normal viscosity. My current personal mixture is the recommend 1 Lightweight + 1 Racing + 1 D4.
It is ok to do a Lightweight + DW1 mixture. Just realize that you are giving-up having pure synthetic ATF and the advantages that the pure synthetic would offer (superior wear resistance and superior longevity of the fluid from breakdown).
MIXTURE PERCENTAGES -
You are currently at 16% Racing.
Do your next refill with the old Lightweight (meaning do a drain and fill-up using 3 qts of the saved Lightweight once). This will put you at 50% Racing mixture.
If you want a higher percentage, do a second refill (shown below).
If you did the second refill with 2 Lightweight + 1 DW1 , this would put you at 57% Racing mixture.
IF you did the second refill with 2-1/2 Lightweight + 1/2 DW1, this would put you at 64% Racing mixture.
If you did the second refill with 3 Lightweight, this would put you at 70% Racing mixture, which is too high. Don't do this.
Provided that you were careful to not get grit and crime into the old Lightweight fluid, it is okay to reuse it. From the conditions that were occurring previously, the old Lightweight fluid would just have clutch powder and super fine metal shaving in it, which would had been circulating in the trans anyways. So, throwing the old Lightweight back in there will be ok.
I have reverse my feeling about pure lightweight. Too realistic (or too paranoid) to cause undue wear to the pump. My feelings now are to compromise a bit of parasitic loss to ensure that the pump does not wear-out prematurely. I am now running with a normal viscosity. My current personal mixture is the recommend 1 Lightweight + 1 Racing + 1 D4.
It is ok to do a Lightweight + DW1 mixture. Just realize that you are giving-up having pure synthetic ATF and the advantages that the pure synthetic would offer (superior wear resistance and superior longevity of the fluid from breakdown).
MIXTURE PERCENTAGES -
You are currently at 16% Racing.
Do your next refill with the old Lightweight (meaning do a drain and fill-up using 3 qts of the saved Lightweight once). This will put you at 50% Racing mixture.
If you want a higher percentage, do a second refill (shown below).
If you did the second refill with 2 Lightweight + 1 DW1 , this would put you at 57% Racing mixture.
IF you did the second refill with 2-1/2 Lightweight + 1/2 DW1, this would put you at 64% Racing mixture.
If you did the second refill with 3 Lightweight, this would put you at 70% Racing mixture, which is too high. Don't do this.
01-22-2012, 12:17 AM
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Did a drain and refill every other week until i had 3x3 done. so in between it would be close to 100 miles between city/highway driving and making sure i would always hit all gears upshifting and downshifting....But Like I stated my situation is on the extreme though cuz I chose to go with the Redline ATF lightweight only and bypass the Redline TypeF....But it's fixed now and I'm glad I did it and showed me how it feels shifting spot on.....
Funny story is when I was down @ Rodney's, both Rodney and Doc went on test drive's and they could not believe how the auto shifted so much like a manual!!!
Funny story is when I was down @ Rodney's, both Rodney and Doc went on test drive's and they could not believe how the auto shifted so much like a manual
!!!
no FM's but it is thinner (lower viscosity )
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BostonSilverTypeS (01-22-2012)
01-22-2012, 07:10 PM
#288
Burning Brakes
Yes I know it is I was just letting swoosh know that I had just the lightweight versus the regular TypeF , but yes correct it is also a TypeF just thinner and no slippery additives
Ok this is what I had in mind doing, just wanted to double check and see if it was ok to use the old lightweight I took out and also what mixtures I would be in. I did get most of the metal fine shavings and clutch powder on the drain plug, but also keep in mind since it was new rebuilt trans I believe you will normally get that from the break in procedure....So I will follow your recommendation on the drain and fills and after the second drain n fill I will do a drain and fill using 1qtDW1(only because I get it for practically free) 1qt Redline TypeF and 1qt Lightweight. With the it should keep me at that 64% mark correct?
well thanks again for the answer I was looking for and keep up the good work
@ BostonSilverTypeS
Provided that you were careful to not get grit and crime into the old Lightweight fluid, it is okay to reuse it. From the conditions that were occurring previously, the old Lightweight fluid would just have clutch powder and super fine metal shaving in it, which would had been circulating in the trans anyways. So, throwing the old Lightweight back in there will be ok.
I have reverse my feeling about pure lightweight. Too realistic (or too paranoid) to cause undue wear to the pump. My feelings now are to compromise a bit of parasitic loss to ensure that the pump does not wear-out prematurely. I am now running with a normal viscosity. My current personal mixture is the recommend 1 Lightweight + 1 Racing + 1 D4.
It is ok to do a Lightweight + DW1 mixture. Just realize that you are giving-up having pure synthetic ATF and the advantages that the pure synthetic would offer (superior wear resistance and superior longevity of the fluid from breakdown).
MIXTURE PERCENTAGES -
You are currently at 16% Racing.
Do your next refill with the old Lightweight (meaning do a drain and fill-up using 3 qts of the saved Lightweight once). This will put you at 50% Racing mixture.
If you want a higher percentage, do a second refill (shown below).
If you did the second refill with 2 Lightweight + 1 DW1 , this would put you at 57% Racing mixture.
IF you did the second refill with 2-1/2 Lightweight + 1/2 DW1, this would put you at 64% Racing mixture.
If you did the second refill with 3 Lightweight, this would put you at 70% Racing mixture, which is too high. Don't do this.
Provided that you were careful to not get grit and crime into the old Lightweight fluid, it is okay to reuse it. From the conditions that were occurring previously, the old Lightweight fluid would just have clutch powder and super fine metal shaving in it, which would had been circulating in the trans anyways. So, throwing the old Lightweight back in there will be ok.
I have reverse my feeling about pure lightweight. Too realistic (or too paranoid) to cause undue wear to the pump. My feelings now are to compromise a bit of parasitic loss to ensure that the pump does not wear-out prematurely. I am now running with a normal viscosity. My current personal mixture is the recommend 1 Lightweight + 1 Racing + 1 D4.
It is ok to do a Lightweight + DW1 mixture. Just realize that you are giving-up having pure synthetic ATF and the advantages that the pure synthetic would offer (superior wear resistance and superior longevity of the fluid from breakdown).
MIXTURE PERCENTAGES -
You are currently at 16% Racing.
Do your next refill with the old Lightweight (meaning do a drain and fill-up using 3 qts of the saved Lightweight once). This will put you at 50% Racing mixture.
If you want a higher percentage, do a second refill (shown below).
If you did the second refill with 2 Lightweight + 1 DW1 , this would put you at 57% Racing mixture.
IF you did the second refill with 2-1/2 Lightweight + 1/2 DW1, this would put you at 64% Racing mixture.
If you did the second refill with 3 Lightweight, this would put you at 70% Racing mixture, which is too high. Don't do this.
well thanks again for the answer I was looking for and keep up the good work
01-22-2012, 07:45 PM
#289
Safety Car
Thread Starter
You will need 2-1/2 F (Lightweight or Racing...any combination) + 1/2 DW1 to put you at 64% F mixture.
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BostonSilverTypeS (01-26-2012)
02-09-2012, 12:26 PM
#292
This is so confusing lol after 8 pages...not that it's anyone's fault, juss' sayin'
Anyway. I did a 3x3 with Type-F racing almost a year (10k-ish miles) ago. I figure it's about time for a 1x3, so I just ordered 2 bottles of Redline D4 to mix with 1 bottle of type-F that i still have left from last year. Should be ok right?
I appreciate you guy's never ending research and support on the topic!
Anyway. I did a 3x3 with Type-F racing almost a year (10k-ish miles) ago. I figure it's about time for a 1x3, so I just ordered 2 bottles of Redline D4 to mix with 1 bottle of type-F that i still have left from last year. Should be ok right?
I appreciate you guy's never ending research and support on the topic!
02-09-2012, 12:43 PM
#294
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just wanted to give an update.
did a 1x3 with 2 qts D4 and 1 qt racing fluid this past weekend, along with the pressure switches. the 1x3 i chose was per inaccurates advice about getting a 65% racing mixture. i wasn't experiencing any flaring with my previous 4x3 (lightweight/racing mixture) but i felt like it was important to correct the percentage asap.
shifts are about the same, which is good. and the lag time between gears 2,3,4 are def smoother after replacing the pressure switches at 51k on the odo.
i'm very happy with how the car drives now.
thanks goes out to inaccurate for doing all this leg work for the rest of us.
did a 1x3 with 2 qts D4 and 1 qt racing fluid this past weekend, along with the pressure switches. the 1x3 i chose was per inaccurates advice about getting a 65% racing mixture. i wasn't experiencing any flaring with my previous 4x3 (lightweight/racing mixture) but i felt like it was important to correct the percentage asap.
shifts are about the same, which is good. and the lag time between gears 2,3,4 are def smoother after replacing the pressure switches at 51k on the odo.
i'm very happy with how the car drives now.
thanks goes out to inaccurate for doing all this leg work for the rest of us.
02-09-2012, 01:21 PM
#295
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^^^ Sharky while you were getting to the optimal % of FM's why didnt you get to the optimal viscosity as well....Inaccurate has the updated % on page 3 if I remember correctly....
02-09-2012, 01:28 PM
#296
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02-09-2012, 01:44 PM
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^^^ Since Tim is all about reduce parasitic loss....the Redline ATF is kinda thick....so to adjust the viscosity, this is what he suggested....
Recommendations have been revised to produce a mixture having a normal viscosity. It is the same as in my opening post except for revising the viscosity.
To obtain the optimal percentage, please follow one of the procedures below that best fits your current situation.
For anyone that is beginning to use Racing ATF for the first time
Refill #1 = 2 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF
Refill #2 = 2 qt Lightweight ATF + 1 qt Racing ATF
Refill #3 = 1 qt D4 + 1 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF
The above will produce a 65% Racing mixture having a normal viscosity (7.5 cSt @ 100º C).
For any subsequent refills (If you choose to do any additional refills in the future), you should use 1 quart D4 + 1 quart Racing ATF + 1 quart Lightweight ATF. This will indefinitely maintain a 65% Racing mixture having a normal viscosity.
For anyone that has already completed a 3x3 using all Racing ATF
You currently have a 79% Racing mixture. To avoid possible flaring issues and unnecessary minor clutch wear in the future, I advice that you take remedial action to lower the percentage.
You should do a single refill (your Refill #4) as shown below.
Refill #4 = 2 quarts D4 + 1 quart Lightweight
The above will produce a 60% Racing mixture having a nearly normal viscosity. The resulting viscosity will be just slightly thicker than normal. It would be 8.4 cSt @ 100º C. Normal is 7.5 cSt @ 100º C. This is an insignificant difference in my opinion.
For any subsequent refills (If you choose to do any additional refills in the future), you should use 1 quart D4 + 1 quart Racing ATF + 1 quart Lightweight ATF. The Racing percentage would be gradually approaching 65% with each subsequent refill. And, the viscosity would be gradually approaching 7.5 cSt @ 100º C with each subsequent refill.
For anyone that has already completed a 4x3 using all Racing ATF
You *MUST* take remedial action. You currently have a 87% Racing mixture. You must lower the percentage to avoid possible flaring issues and unnecessary minor clutch wear in the future.
You must do a single refill (your Refill #5) as shown below.
Refill #5 = 2 quarts D4 + 1 quart Lightweight
This remedial action will produce a 65% Racing mixture having a nearly normal viscosity. The resulting viscosity will be just slightly thicker than normal. It would be 8.5 cSt @ 100º C. Normal is 7.5 cSt @ 100º C. This is an insignificant difference in my opinion.
For any subsequent refills (If you choose to do any additional refills in the future), you should use 1 quart D4 + 1 quart Racing ATF + 1 quart Lightweight ATF. This will indefinitely maintain a 65% Racing mixture. And, the viscosity would be gradually approaching 7.5 cSt @ 100º C with each subsequent refill.
To obtain the optimal percentage, please follow one of the procedures below that best fits your current situation.
For anyone that is beginning to use Racing ATF for the first time
Refill #1 = 2 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF
Refill #2 = 2 qt Lightweight ATF + 1 qt Racing ATF
Refill #3 = 1 qt D4 + 1 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF
The above will produce a 65% Racing mixture having a normal viscosity (7.5 cSt @ 100º C).
For any subsequent refills (If you choose to do any additional refills in the future), you should use 1 quart D4 + 1 quart Racing ATF + 1 quart Lightweight ATF. This will indefinitely maintain a 65% Racing mixture having a normal viscosity.
For anyone that has already completed a 3x3 using all Racing ATF
You currently have a 79% Racing mixture. To avoid possible flaring issues and unnecessary minor clutch wear in the future, I advice that you take remedial action to lower the percentage.
You should do a single refill (your Refill #4) as shown below.
Refill #4 = 2 quarts D4 + 1 quart Lightweight
The above will produce a 60% Racing mixture having a nearly normal viscosity. The resulting viscosity will be just slightly thicker than normal. It would be 8.4 cSt @ 100º C. Normal is 7.5 cSt @ 100º C. This is an insignificant difference in my opinion.
For any subsequent refills (If you choose to do any additional refills in the future), you should use 1 quart D4 + 1 quart Racing ATF + 1 quart Lightweight ATF. The Racing percentage would be gradually approaching 65% with each subsequent refill. And, the viscosity would be gradually approaching 7.5 cSt @ 100º C with each subsequent refill.
For anyone that has already completed a 4x3 using all Racing ATF
You *MUST* take remedial action. You currently have a 87% Racing mixture. You must lower the percentage to avoid possible flaring issues and unnecessary minor clutch wear in the future.
You must do a single refill (your Refill #5) as shown below.
Refill #5 = 2 quarts D4 + 1 quart Lightweight
This remedial action will produce a 65% Racing mixture having a nearly normal viscosity. The resulting viscosity will be just slightly thicker than normal. It would be 8.5 cSt @ 100º C. Normal is 7.5 cSt @ 100º C. This is an insignificant difference in my opinion.
For any subsequent refills (If you choose to do any additional refills in the future), you should use 1 quart D4 + 1 quart Racing ATF + 1 quart Lightweight ATF. This will indefinitely maintain a 65% Racing mixture. And, the viscosity would be gradually approaching 7.5 cSt @ 100º C with each subsequent refill.
02-09-2012, 01:49 PM
#298
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^thanks.
meh...so i used a qt of racing instead of a qt of lightweight. i'm sure it can't be that much different.
besides, i know i still have a bunch of lightweight still in the system from the previous 4x3
meh...so i used a qt of racing instead of a qt of lightweight. i'm sure it can't be that much different.
besides, i know i still have a bunch of lightweight still in the system from the previous 4x3
02-09-2012, 01:58 PM
#299
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^^^ yeah wont be much of a difference, but your previous 4x3 might have made your fluid toooo thin....am not the best with crunching numbers and hence will leave it for Inaccurate to figure this out
02-09-2012, 02:10 PM
#300
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Definitely nothing to lose sleep over. I agree with the previous few replies. It would be better to error on the side of being slightly thicker versus being thin.
02-09-2012, 02:17 PM
#301
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^right on.
did 3x3 with 6 qts racing and 3 qts lightweight...
(8k miles later)
did 1x3 with 2 qts racing and 1 qt lightweight...
(8k miles later)
did 1x3 with 2 qts D4 and 1 qt racing...
whatcha think, tim?
did 3x3 with 6 qts racing and 3 qts lightweight...
(8k miles later)
did 1x3 with 2 qts racing and 1 qt lightweight...
(8k miles later)
did 1x3 with 2 qts D4 and 1 qt racing...
whatcha think, tim?
02-20-2012, 04:50 PM
#303
1st Gear
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Vehicle: 2003 Acura TLS
Location: Miami, Fl
Problem: Slipping trans 1st and 3rd gear
Background:
I have purchased a rebuilt transmission 2 weeks ago and was not happy with the soft shifts. The trans was rebuilt to perfection, however, I've noticed the shifts felt mushy. Dw1 sucks
I have implemented Inaccurate's 3x3 redline racing atf drain and fill up to 2X3.
Night and Day difference!! I got some words for you all...65% is ridiculous! The tach cant keep up with the gear changes. When you feel the jerk of the gear change, you are already in the next gear...insane!! The difference in torque feeling is on a whole new planet!! 65% is the truth!!
Location: Miami, Fl
Problem: Slipping trans 1st and 3rd gear
Background:
I have purchased a rebuilt transmission 2 weeks ago and was not happy with the soft shifts. The trans was rebuilt to perfection, however, I've noticed the shifts felt mushy. Dw1 sucks
I have implemented Inaccurate's 3x3 redline racing atf drain and fill up to 2X3.
Night and Day difference!! I got some words for you all...65% is ridiculous! The tach cant keep up with the gear changes. When you feel the jerk of the gear change, you are already in the next gear...insane!! The difference in torque feeling is on a whole new planet!! 65% is the truth!!
02-20-2012, 08:27 PM
#304
Intermediate
For anyone that is beginning to use Racing ATF for the first time AND WANT A NORMAL VISCOSITY
Refill #1 = 2 quarts Racing ATF + 1 quart Lightweight ATF
Refill #2 = 2 quarts Racing ATF + 1 quart Lightweight ATF
Refill #3 = 1 quart D4 + 1 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF
The above will produce a 65% Racing mixture with normal viscosity
Refill #1 = 2 quarts Racing ATF + 1 quart Lightweight ATF
Refill #2 = 2 quarts Racing ATF + 1 quart Lightweight ATF
Refill #3 = 1 quart D4 + 1 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF
The above will produce a 65% Racing mixture with normal viscosity
My recommendation is the same as my opening post except for revising the viscosity.
For anyone that is beginning to use Racing ATF for the first time
Refill #1 = 2 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF
Refill #2 = 2 qt Lightweight ATF + 1 qt Racing ATF
Refill #3 = 1 qt D4 + 1 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF
For anyone that is beginning to use Racing ATF for the first time
Refill #1 = 2 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF
Refill #2 = 2 qt Lightweight ATF + 1 qt Racing ATF
Refill #3 = 1 qt D4 + 1 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF
02-20-2012, 08:42 PM
#305
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^^^ read it again....slowly
you will see the difference is "VISCOSITY"
Redline is a lot thicker fluid and hence you mix up the juice to get the fluid (almost) as thin as STOCK....why you ask....this will reduce the drivetrain loss....
you will see the difference is "VISCOSITY"
Redline is a lot thicker fluid and hence you mix up the juice to get the fluid (almost) as thin as STOCK....why you ask....this will reduce the drivetrain loss....
02-21-2012, 12:02 AM
#306
Intermediate
I don't think you're seeing what I'm seeing.. He first posted his updated formula for normal viscosity (1st in my previous post) then within one day he changed that formula... so I'm guessing he miscalculated the first time for normal viscosity?
02-21-2012, 12:11 AM
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^^^ no....he is Inaccurate...he doesnt miscalculate LOL....
See Case 1 (top post):
5 racing fluid, 1 D4 and 3 Lightweight Racing
Case 2 (bottom post):
4 racing fluid, 1 D4 and 4 Lightweight Racing
Both get you to 65% of the fluid but the top post keeps it at normal viscosity....
See Case 1 (top post):
5 racing fluid, 1 D4 and 3 Lightweight Racing
Case 2 (bottom post):
4 racing fluid, 1 D4 and 4 Lightweight Racing
Both get you to 65% of the fluid but the top post keeps it at normal viscosity....
02-21-2012, 12:46 AM
#308
^^^ no....he is Inaccurate...he doesnt miscalculate LOL....
See Case 1 (top post):
5 racing fluid, 1 D4 and 3 Lightweight Racing
Case 2 (bottom post):
4 racing fluid, 1 D4 and 4 Lightweight Racing
Both get you to 65% of the fluid but the top post keeps it at normal viscosity....
See Case 1 (top post):
5 racing fluid, 1 D4 and 3 Lightweight Racing
Case 2 (bottom post):
4 racing fluid, 1 D4 and 4 Lightweight Racing
Both get you to 65% of the fluid but the top post keeps it at normal viscosity....
He didn't miscalculate, the second is for those that want to run the same viscosity as stock.
Last edited by wilztlxs; 02-21-2012 at 12:48 AM.
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Inaccurate (02-21-2012)
02-21-2012, 12:53 AM
#309
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^^^ I did feel the same when i posted this:
but gonna wait for Inaccurate to clear it up.....since its his research....also gotta read the initial post by Inaccurate which Smith posted up (not pointing any fingers, just saying).....
See Case 1 (top post):
5 racing fluid, 1 D4 and 3 Lightweight Racing
Case 2 (bottom post):
4 racing fluid, 1 D4 and 4 Lightweight Racing
5 racing fluid, 1 D4 and 3 Lightweight Racing
Case 2 (bottom post):
4 racing fluid, 1 D4 and 4 Lightweight Racing
02-21-2012, 09:06 AM
#310
Safety Car
Thread Starter
At first, I was afraid of making it look too complicated. No one complained of being confused, so I tweaked it a bit more to be closer in normal viscosity. Sort of like Coke always messing with the original formula.
Last edited by Inaccurate; 02-21-2012 at 09:15 AM.
02-21-2012, 09:23 AM
#311
Just wanted to share my experience;
When I first did the 3x3 fluid change to redline type f I was really happy with the results. It was a big improvement over whatever fluid was in the transmission. The car shifted better with no hesitation in between shifts and it was amazing.
Recently I had been having some issues. The car drove and shifted fine, except sometimes I would be at around 2k rpms and I would want the car to shift but it wouldn't. I'm not sure if it's just me or if everyone does this, but usually in any car I've driven I left off the gas when I want it to shift and most cars shift into the next higher gear. The TL however wouldn't. It would just stay at 2k RPMs and I'd have to gas it harder and it would eventually shift at around 2500.
I kept blaming my paranoia but eventually I figured it was time for another change. I saw this thread and decided to go with Innacurate's advice and I did a 1x3 with 2 qts d4 fluid and 1 qt racing fluid.
The result is amazing. It's as big of an improvement as switching to redline in the first place. The car now shifts with me whenever I want, and the usual shifts are no longer harsh or bothersome but smooth and efficient. I'm really happy with the car and even starting to put more money into mods now that I have confidence in the transmission.
Big thanks to Innacurate and IHC for all your research and help on the topic.
When I first did the 3x3 fluid change to redline type f I was really happy with the results. It was a big improvement over whatever fluid was in the transmission. The car shifted better with no hesitation in between shifts and it was amazing.
Recently I had been having some issues. The car drove and shifted fine, except sometimes I would be at around 2k rpms and I would want the car to shift but it wouldn't. I'm not sure if it's just me or if everyone does this, but usually in any car I've driven I left off the gas when I want it to shift and most cars shift into the next higher gear. The TL however wouldn't. It would just stay at 2k RPMs and I'd have to gas it harder and it would eventually shift at around 2500.
I kept blaming my paranoia but eventually I figured it was time for another change. I saw this thread and decided to go with Innacurate's advice and I did a 1x3 with 2 qts d4 fluid and 1 qt racing fluid.
The result is amazing. It's as big of an improvement as switching to redline in the first place. The car now shifts with me whenever I want, and the usual shifts are no longer harsh or bothersome but smooth and efficient. I'm really happy with the car and even starting to put more money into mods now that I have confidence in the transmission.
Big thanks to Innacurate and IHC for all your research and help on the topic.
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02-21-2012, 09:58 AM
#312
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Thread Starter
quanaman,
If you want the trans to shift at the lowest rpm possible, be sure to do the reset periodically and to replace the switches.
Resetting ECU makes me happy
(click here)
Very interesting conversation with my transmission builder on the TL (click here)
A-110: DIY Guide to replacing 3rd & 4th gear pressure switch for 3G TL (2004-2006) (click here)
If you want the trans to shift at the lowest rpm possible, be sure to do the reset periodically and to replace the switches.
Resetting ECU makes me happy
(click here)Very interesting conversation with my transmission builder on the TL (click here)
A-110: DIY Guide to replacing 3rd & 4th gear pressure switch for 3G TL (2004-2006) (click here)
02-21-2012, 10:56 AM
#313
takin care of Business in
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Tim,
I suggest posting 1 post which has all the fluid mixtures:
65% and Normal Viscosity:
1st time users
3x3 already done users
4x3 already done users
65% and dont care about viscosity:
1st time users
3x3 already done users
4x3 already done users
and once you post this, have the mods update the 1st post, so people dont get confused and have a reference point back to 1st post....
I suggest posting 1 post which has all the fluid mixtures:
65% and Normal Viscosity:
1st time users
3x3 already done users
4x3 already done users
65% and dont care about viscosity:
1st time users
3x3 already done users
4x3 already done users
and once you post this, have the mods update the 1st post, so people dont get confused and have a reference point back to 1st post....
03-03-2012, 08:21 PM
#314
Safety Car
@atrac7
To help you decide what your Racing percentage (if any) should be to suit your taste, you could do the following.
Because you have not done any refills yet, you can use this to your advantage.
Do the Refill #1 (2 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF). Drive with it for at least a week. Perhaps drive even longer than a week until you have developed a good feel of the Racing ATF personality. Then, you will be in a better position to decide what direction you should take next for your Refill #2. Contact me (this thread, another thread, or PM) and I will help you to pick what your Refill #2 should be based on your reaction to the Refill #1.
The above paragraph is what I recommend for you. However, below, I will proceed to answer your questions from your most recent post.
If you changed the Refill #3 to be 2 D4 + 1 Lightweight, this would give you a 52% Racing mixture. This would be ok because you are below the 65% maximum limit. You would still be receiving the benefits of crisp shifts and longer clutch life in my opinion. However, I would *not* want you to think that the shifts would be less harsh. In my opinion, any amount of Racing ATF is likely to produce harsh shifts. It is up to you if you want to give it a try or not. This is why I recommend you to try racing atf for just your first refill. If you think the shifts are too harsh, we can use your next two refills to make the shifts smooth again.
If you changed the Refill #3 to be 2 D4, then I recommend that you use the Racing ATF and not the Lightweight. That is, I recommend for the Refill #3 to be 2 D4 + 1 Racing. Because your primary goal is protecting the trans, and not performance, this is why I picked the Racing and not lightweight. The slightly thicker viscosity will protect the trans more than a slightly thinner viscosity.
To help you decide what your Racing percentage (if any) should be to suit your taste, you could do the following.
Because you have not done any refills yet, you can use this to your advantage.
Do the Refill #1 (2 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF). Drive with it for at least a week. Perhaps drive even longer than a week until you have developed a good feel of the Racing ATF personality. Then, you will be in a better position to decide what direction you should take next for your Refill #2. Contact me (this thread, another thread, or PM) and I will help you to pick what your Refill #2 should be based on your reaction to the Refill #1.
The above paragraph is what I recommend for you. However, below, I will proceed to answer your questions from your most recent post.
If you changed the Refill #3 to be 2 D4 + 1 Lightweight, this would give you a 52% Racing mixture. This would be ok because you are below the 65% maximum limit. You would still be receiving the benefits of crisp shifts and longer clutch life in my opinion. However, I would *not* want you to think that the shifts would be less harsh. In my opinion, any amount of Racing ATF is likely to produce harsh shifts. It is up to you if you want to give it a try or not. This is why I recommend you to try racing atf for just your first refill. If you think the shifts are too harsh, we can use your next two refills to make the shifts smooth again.
If you changed the Refill #3 to be 2 D4, then I recommend that you use the Racing ATF and not the Lightweight. That is, I recommend for the Refill #3 to be 2 D4 + 1 Racing. Because your primary goal is protecting the trans, and not performance, this is why I picked the Racing and not lightweight. The slightly thicker viscosity will protect the trans more than a slightly thinner viscosity.
I need to do ATF changes on the TL and the wife's Ody, so I need to discover the perfect compromise similar to what FollowingNFront described below. Also, Inaccurate, I figured I would let you know that some of your threads pertaining to the ATF are being linked in the Odyclub forums. You're famous. Thanks for your help. After the second day of driving it with the 48% racing, I can honestly say the 2-3 gear shift is almost completely seamless... AND, I am in love with the fact that I now don't have that jarring, banging, JOLT a second after I put the car in reverse! I barely feel it now....
In your opinion, how would a 55% racing mix feel in comparison to my current 48% mix?
Also, how would a 62% racing mix feel in comparison to my current 48% mix?
I may do another D&R this weekend, but I want to find the right % for me, because I don't want jarring shifts and I don't want popping noises... I also don't want a crapload of debris on my drainbolt.
In your opinion, how would a 55% racing mix feel in comparison to my current 48% mix?
Also, how would a 62% racing mix feel in comparison to my current 48% mix?
I may do another D&R this weekend, but I want to find the right % for me, because I don't want jarring shifts and I don't want popping noises... I also don't want a crapload of debris on my drainbolt.
@ FollowingNFront
After the Refill #1 with Type F, a person would have a 40% mixture. After Refill #2, it would be a 65% mixture. This is how I had my first experiences with the racing fluid. So, I will be using these percentages as reference points.
The primary trait with the 40% was that the shifts were executed quickly. When I went from 40% to 65%, the trans became much more aggressive in everything that it did. And, for me, I love this trait. The shifts executed a bit quicker too than just the 40%.
You had ask about different percentages. It would seem logical that a 52% mixture, being mid way between the 40% and 65%, would offer slightly quicker shifts and slightly more aggressive behavior than the 40%.
From what I am reading from your post, I don't think you would be happy with a mixture higher than 40%. The 40% offers the lion's share of the improvements in shifting speed, which should translate into offering the lion's share of the clutch protection.
A percentage higher than 40% is entering into the beastly territory of the Type F's personality. A mixture higher than 40% is prone to deliver lunging during upshifts and downshifts, popping sounds, sudden jerks, clank sounds, rough shifts, rough gear engagement, and other beastly conduct.
The previous paragraph also explains why I like the stuff so much.
After the Refill #1 with Type F, a person would have a 40% mixture. After Refill #2, it would be a 65% mixture. This is how I had my first experiences with the racing fluid. So, I will be using these percentages as reference points.
The primary trait with the 40% was that the shifts were executed quickly. When I went from 40% to 65%, the trans became much more aggressive in everything that it did. And, for me, I love this trait. The shifts executed a bit quicker too than just the 40%.
You had ask about different percentages. It would seem logical that a 52% mixture, being mid way between the 40% and 65%, would offer slightly quicker shifts and slightly more aggressive behavior than the 40%.
From what I am reading from your post, I don't think you would be happy with a mixture higher than 40%. The 40% offers the lion's share of the improvements in shifting speed, which should translate into offering the lion's share of the clutch protection.
A percentage higher than 40% is entering into the beastly territory of the Type F's personality. A mixture higher than 40% is prone to deliver lunging during upshifts and downshifts, popping sounds, sudden jerks, clank sounds, rough shifts, rough gear engagement, and other beastly conduct.
The previous paragraph also explains why I like the stuff so much.
How about this? Would it be the equivalent of OEM protection but with a better fluid, like Acura should have done in the first place?
03-05-2012, 11:42 PM
#317
So after doing all the research before doing a 3x3 on my 2006 TL, I decided I don't want to risk shifts that are much firmer than what I get with the stock Z-1 fluid. I frequently drive clients around and don't want them wondering what is going on with the car if the shifts are fairly harsh. I am thinking of using 1 qt racing atf and 2 qts D4 with each drain and fill. Does this sound safe for what I am trying to accomplish for shift quality while adding a bit of extra protection for the tranny?
03-06-2012, 07:24 AM
#318
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Thread Starter
1) This is correct. You can hit the 65% with just two refills. However, I would recommend doing 3 or 4 refills to get that old ATF out of the transmission.
2) It is up to you to decide how much F to use provided you stay below 65% Racing. There is nothing wrong with using "pure D4" or "D4 laced with F". All of it is still Redline brand which is of superior quality and is the most important aspect here..... to get the high quality Redline in your trans whether it be D4 or something below 65% Racing.
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A SiQ TL (03-06-2012)
03-10-2012, 11:59 AM
#320
Looks like I got more of the standard racing type than the light version .... what would I notice using it in change 2 and 3 instead of the light version? Should I return it for some more light?
