rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

the o-ring on the end of mine went at 40K. Smart move...
1st and 2nd gear normal day to day driving is where you'll notice the improvement most. SO yes, you should do it.

IF you feel it doesn't shift like any other car you've driven.

0utl

Yeah and messing with an 11 year old part is never fun. Plus if i ever want to switch it back (not likely) i can just swap the part out. The 1st to 2nd is the most annoying lol. I'm on board, ill come back and give my results. It may be a month till i get to it tho.

FamilyGuy

Got rid of my check valve over 20k miles ago, no regrets, 1,000x better

ct_ua6

Wow this is the first time I'm seeing this thread. I thought I was the only one that thought the first to second gear shift was "awkward"... While I won't do this mod, I'm satisfied that its not me causing this..

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Do the mod!
When it's done...you'll be very happy!

aameghoo

Has anyone noticed any negative side-effects yet? Figure some have been running this for awhile now. I'm thinking about doing this but don't want to have something break soon down the line.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I started the thread 6 years ago and am still singing the praises.
Only negative side effect is how much more punani I've gotten because all the ladies are so impressed with my smooth shifting. But honestly, I don't mind that.

aameghoo

Haha ok I think 6 years is a good test of time. Have to put this on my list of things to do now.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

but but but...what if I'm lying and I'm on my 4th clutch since doing this?!?!

FamilyGuy

2 years here, aftermarket clutch and full bolt ons, no problem.

LogicWavelength

So... I just had a worldview-altering revelation discovering this thread. I used to sell TLs back in '04/'05 and could never quite figure out why they felt... odd. When I bought my own TL-S I just accepted that it was just like this, and there was nothing to be done about it.

Now, I drive the CRAP out of my TL. It probably spends more time above 4k RPM than below. I constantly smell burning clutch on hard shifts, but only in two-three upshifts. This explains EVERYTHING! Couple this with the GM Friction Modified fluid I am putting in tomorrow, and I think my car will be perfect again!

However, you scared me with the above quote. I fully understand I am wearing items faster by driving hard... but I only get one lifetime and I'm going to enjoy every second of driving. Having said that - is there any reason for me NOT to do this mod because I drive hard?

0utl

I hope you're kidding

From what i have read this mod was more or so meant for people who drive more spirited in the first place, but as more people did the mod they came to see that it also helped with normal daily driving, especially with 1st to 2nd shifts. I believe there are only positives to this, especially with driving spirited because it allows for quicker engagement preventing the clutch to burn up. This is just from what I have gathered... Correct me if I'm wrong.

ct_ua6

Hahahahah

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

:grin:

I was saying that the main reason to do this isn't because you beat on the car...I'm sure it's fine if you do. I just think it'll be most noticeable getting out of 1st and 2nd without feeling like you're a 15 year old manual driving noob again.


I was kidding. Stock clutch...108K miles...stock tranny...stock driver...
I have all the supporting mods...delrin shifter bushings...comptech short shift...ac delco with fm in it...heavy shift knob...and clutch delay valve removed. The car is a real pleasure to row through the gears.

J.

polobunny

We linked B to this thread. I hope her humor is as good as yours.




I test drove 1 6MT TL while I was looking for mine and I felt like a freaking idiot shifting the car, it's so unnatural compared to other cars. If the mod removes that, then it's definitely not just for racecar drivers.

ct_ua6

This exactly!

FamilyGuy

Given the nature of what the valve does, I think it wears things out faster itself than if it's not there, assuming you can shift a manual properly most of the time.

Official news from Honda stated that its purpose is to reduce driveline shock, but as you can see we have yet to break anything. I have an estimated 280hp-300hp at the wheels on my type s, and even though I don't launch hard too often - mainly due to lack of traction in 1st gear, I still launch pretty good here and there, and the car sees WOTs on a daily basis in every gear from 2nd and up, and I shift this bitch hard and fast on the 2-3 and 3-4 almost every time I hit the highway, which is at least a dozen times / week.

It's most def not just for racing or spirited driving. It brings back the enjoyment of just driving the car normally in any way at all without thinking about it, instead of being distracted by the mushy, lack of engagement point feeling "wtf is going on" moments when it's still stock.

NightShark

is there any bleeding that will need to be done after doing this mod? If so, how?

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

One billion percent yes.
On the S you can gravity bleed, but pretty sure the line is not flexible on the TL. You'll need to limit fork travel with a broom handle or something wedged and pump and bleed...or use a vacuum bleeder!

B knows, Polo...she fell for it!

Ivo knows what's up...it's meant for grandma and grandpa that might powershift or ride the clutch...rev match and have experience driving, it's unnecessary.

FamilyGuy

Aw dude it's so nice to rev match on the downshift when slowing down, it just engages without any drama, and if you have an exhaust sounds tits and turns heads

aameghoo

So I just got done doing this, man that ring and cap was an absolute pain in the ass. I haven't really tested things out yet, just drove the car around my complex to make sure it will take me to class in the morning.

One thing I did notice is my engagement point is much lower now, it grabs not long after lifting my foot from the floor whereas before it was almost at the top. Is this because of deleting the valve or just not bleeding it enough.

I had my girl pump the pedal 10 times then hold and then I loosened the bleeder valve a little letting some fluid out then tightened it back. Only did this 3 times since she was tired and wanted to go to bed. Also not too sure what you guys mean by limiting the fork travel when doing the bleeding.

FamilyGuy

^^

I believe the engagement point is adjustable via the pedal. I like mine around a third to 40% of travel from the floor.

If that's all you did you might have some air left in there. I didn't do the instal, but I did help my mechanic do a 2nd bleed when he re-adjusted the pedal for me, it was grabbing too low. So all together we did more than what you describe and there was a little air 2nd time around still. I did the valve removal from the cylinder myself though.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

You didn't bleed enough...


The ring sucks...that's why I use a dremel to cut a channel to get the pick in there to pull it. It's earlier on in the thread somewhere.


So when you press the clutch, the slave presses that pin out the top, right...well the thing on the transmission that it presses on is called the fork. You need to jam a piece of wood behind it (IIRC from the driver side wheel well, from fork to the back of the caliper or something fixed).

I found that once I did that AND bled it, I was able to get the air out completely.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

If you didn't touch your clutch pedal engagement point, don't touch it now, you won't have a point of reference to get the pedal back to the way it was!

aameghoo

Yeah I read about the dremel, bought a pick set instead since it was so cheap and nearby although I've been meaning to get a dremel for awhile now. By the time I reached the point of frustration with the pick set and also stabbing my finger, Lowes was already closed so I had no choice but to keep trying with the pick set . Anyone doing this, I highly recommend just dropping the money and getting a cheap dremel instead if you don't already have one plus I'm sure you'll find other uses for it, trying to do it with a pick set is absolutely miserable at best.

Ok this makes a lot more sense now with the wood and the fork. Figured I didn't bleed enough, just wanted to make sure. I'll bleed it again later today when I get home with jamming the fork. Currently I have to pump the clutch every time I drive to be able to shift About how many cycles of bleeding would you guys recommend?

I actually didn't know the engagement point was adjustable, after I properly bleed the clutch I think I'm going to lower it a little.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

It's not really cycles...it's just once all the air is out...if you limit fork and give it a good pump pump bleed, you should feel the pedal return to normal.

aameghoo

Ok fair enough, I'll just keep doing it till the pedal feels normal again

0utl

Quick question. When i put the cap and ring back on the SC, Should i use JB weld on it to make it sure it stays or just use a silicone? Thanks.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

just use some astroglide...






on yourself.



Nothing, man...the insert has an o-ring and the clip will not allow it to pop out...if you do dremel to get the clip out, just make sure you turn it so you don't cut it...and then don't go deep enough that you compromise seal of where the cap goes back in so you don't leak. I thread a thumbful of RTV on mine just for the sake of keeping dirt/dust off but you don't really have to.

sauceja

iTrader: (2)

Slave cylinder check valve delete
shifter cable bushings
stainless steel clutch line
GM Syncromesh fluid
And if possible - short throw shifter kit with heavier shift knob


These are almost mandatory for a 6mt TL

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

;Great suggestions, Jeff

0utl

Well thanks for that advice Rockstar Ill be sure to grab some astroglide tomorrow Anyways ill just use some silicone as well to keep it clean. This site is almost dangerous for me and my wallet, having all these little mods you can do! My list goes on and on now. Thanks to Sauceja i'm now going to order the SS clutch line, and do the Check Valve delete and line at the same time. I cant wait to feel the difference!

FamilyGuy

^^

This.

Except I'm still on the Honda fluid. Works fine for me and I've read a story or two about the GM fluid fucking shit up inside the tranny after some good mileage, so why mess with it if you don't have any 3rd gear issues. I think some guys claim the fluid over heats compared to Hondas fluid. I have no idea if true or not so take it with a grain of salt.

The ring sucks to remove, but I was able to get mine out with a pick after wrestling with it for a minute or two. Tip: careful where you do this, as the ring can fly out and you'll never find it again.

aameghoo

Sadly it took me like 2 hours of trying with a pick, stabbing my finger in the process

When I finally saw the ring coming out I was in disbelief for a moment lol

FamilyGuy

^^

Sweet at least you got it

I think I used something to stop the ring from spinning round and round while I picked at it. That's what did the trick for me IIRC.

AlanW

If you gently tap the cap end of the slave cylinder down (back towards the housing), it will relieve some pressure on the clip.

Really, though, just take the dermal tool and carefully cut a narrow slot in the housing, you can pop the clip right off and not struggle with trying to pick the thing. You will see that even with the slot cut, it still takes some effort to get the clip off, so it's not just going to fly off some day because you cut he little slot.

You know, when you read on here that 10 or 20 knowledgeable people who have already done this say to use the dermal tool....don't over-think it, just get the dermal tool out & cut the groove and be done with it. I didn't even consider trying to get it off without cutting the slot, and I had the cylinder dismounted, the check valve out, and the cylinder back on ready to bleed in like 15 minutes....

FamilyGuy

There's really no need to cut a groove. IIRC I used two picks, one to hold the ring from spinning and one to grab and pull one of its ends. As soon as I used a 2nd pick to stop the darn thing from spinning only took a few tries to pop it out.

0utl

^ Thanks for the tip! Since im doing the SS clutch line and SC, how much honda brake fluid will i need to bleed it? 1 or 2 bottles? Thanks!

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I had very little luck with the picks both times...the groove made it much easier for me. Also easier to not have teh clip fly off and be hard to find.

I've probably had GMSFM for over 50K miles...zero issues. Smooth as butter...Honda MTF was fine...SFM was better. Same with the S2000...don't know what was in there but shifting was butter...swapped to H MTF and all of a sudden I was like "is this notchy"...was driving me nuts...swapped to GM (Ac Delco) and BAM...butter again. I'll always run it...it's a little thicker...with the Friction Modifiers. I don't think there have been any failures from it...

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Tapping to relieve the pressure on the clip makes sense though...if I ever have to revisit this...I'll give that a try and see if the picks work.