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If people are making money through the community, they damn well better be contributing something back to the community itself. Either through their shared knowledge, through supporting our Child's Play Charity drive, by paying vendor fees or the best, all of the above. Otherwise, they are freeloading and risking their membership within our community. Acting commercially within the community comes with a cost. It doesn't matter if the person is being sneaky about it, their intentions and (lack of) integrity speaks volumes.
Unfortunately this "community" isn't just this forum. IMHO most of the real tuning and nitty-gritty isn't done here. This forum is the show, the other is the go. And THAT is where he made his reputation.
Certainly a grey area but basically what you are saying is because Frosty first contacted him here, he's banned. If the first piece of data the OP gave us was that he messaged him on the other forum, he wouldn't be banned?
What if say he had an account here but only had one post. Would he still be banned?
Everyone who has had trouble should speak up though. And so should everyone who he treated well. I bet one far outweighs the other...
Edit: FYI I'm merely sparking conversation here. No disrespect to the mods and or the OP. Nor am I condoning what was done.
Last edited by maharajamd; 10-15-2014 at 10:12 AM.
I don't know why you continue to attempt reading into things. I've been very clear, and you continue to try muddying the waters. For what purpose? It's not going to change anything.
If you're a member here and you rip another member off you are risking your membership. If you're a member here and you rip off the community itself, you are also risking your membership. It's pretty simple.
I think you've made it abundantly clear that it was not a whim, or a personal vendetta. Redeeming quality or not, he broke rules in one regard or another, that isn't debatable.
x1,000,000 this goes for any transaction with any member/vendor. Those that don't say anything are doing the community a disservice.
EDIT POST: (Copy and pasted from page 5, same type of statement posted)
This becomes the problem:
Let's say the person in question is named Jeff. Jeff started experimenting with the TL. He ended up doing custom work and is offering his services. Jeff also is a vendor and sell parts (OEM or aftermarket). Everyone goes to Jeff. Jeff is that dude that everyone is going to use because it's raved among the community. However, those that meet Jeff in person and seen his work start having mixed opinions. At car meets some might express their opinion about Jeff's work and say "It wasn't the quality I expected based on others experience and what I've seen in posts". Now, you walking a fine line since most will automatically RESPECT Jeff for what he has offered for the community but NOBODY will speak out and say "Hey, no offense his work wasn't all that great". Automatically makes you the asshole for saying so. I've been here long enough to see this happen a few times. Most won't start that fire, but once it is, it's easier for others to come out and share their experience with the person at hand.
Its like opening Pandora's box.. Most wont.
Last edited by 04WDPSeDaN; 10-15-2014 at 10:55 AM.
Reason: Previously posted the same reply in this thread.
EDIT POST: (Copy and pasted from page 5, same type of statement posted)
This becomes the problem:
Let's say the person in question is named Jeff. Jeff started experimenting with the TL. He ended up doing custom work and is offering his services. Jeff also is a vendor and sell parts (OEM or aftermarket). Everyone goes to Jeff. Jeff is that dude that everyone is going to use because it's raved among the community. However, those that meet Jeff in person and seen his work start having mixed opinions. At car meets some might express their opinion about Jeff's work and say "It wasn't the quality I expected based on others experience and what I've seen in posts". Now, you walking a fine line since most will automatically RESPECT Jeff for what he has offered for the community but NOBODY will speak out and say "Hey, no offense his work wasn't all that great". Automatically makes you the asshole for saying so. I've been here long enough to see this happen a few times. Most won't start that fire, but once it is, it's easier for others to come out and share their experience with the person at hand.
Its like opening Pandora's box.. Most wont.
So, those that have shitty dealings with members need to grow a pair and publicly post about it - got it
I honestly don't know how most of these people go quietly into the night...when I get fkd over, I like to share and warn people so it doesn't happen again and again, even to the point where I was getting flack for starting drama for it on the FB pages.
Annoying as fk but I felt like I needed to let people know to steer clear of d*ckbreath and his modding and stealing of money...got the point where I stepped away. Warning people can also become a headache unfortunately since most won't listen until it's their money getting fkd with.
My fear, if you want to call it that, is that his ban and the reason given for said ban sets a precedence - that is, any member that sells a service, without actively advertising, such as assisting with a headlight blackout in exchange for a six pack (that is a transaction) could theoretically be banned because they aren't a vendor.
*stepsoffsoapbox*
I don't think that will be the case. Paul has ripped off a few people around here, out of a huge sum of money, regardless of what the reasons are. Plus, as others have pointed out, he only "contributes" enough to the forum to have people wanting more from him. Aka racking in extra business without even having a vendor status. I'm sure if he openly contributed his knowledge and willingly helped many of us out online, without the expectation of getting a return on it, the situation may have been viewed differently.
I could be wrong, but I don't think Acurazine would really care about a 6 pack being exchanged for good service. It may violate a rule here and there, but if someone was really good to the community and always helping out and sharing, I could imagine a blind eye being turned on certain things. That to me isn't even payment. It's just a kind gesture, or tip, if you want to call it that. Saying "my fees are $1500 for this work" is payment.
All in all, good riddance to him. I don't care if he is the holy grail of Hondas and Acuras. I lost complete respect and trust for the guy and I'd rather find any other means possible to learn something, or get something done, than deal with someone like that. Just my
In all seriousness, I agree with Taco...I have even done a few tails with the intention of keeping and end up selling them but have never advertised a service and almost always point to our resident tail vendor to get work done. I never made enough to warrant becoming a vendor and had no desire to get to that level of commitment either. Over time, I figured it would be abundantly clear with all my DIY threads and general demeanor that my intent has been to give back much more than I take from this community.
I stand by what I tell people every chance I get...Acurazine is the best forum I've been on. Without it, I can't tell you how much money I would have spent diagnosing issues over the course of 5 years of ownership of the TL...plus, all the modding ideas. I know a decent amount now, but I never forget where I learned it all from.
184 posts, 5 month old account LAYING IT DOWN FELLAS!
Fuck the man who has been part of the community for 15+ years. Doesn't have shit on those canucks!
Actually, I've lurked for quite sometime but never signed up because I wasn't driving an acura at the time. I had a v6 6mt accord coupe and figured I didn't have much to add. I've known of Paul and his work for 7 years from the other place he is a vendor on. But hey, if you want to judge by post count, go right for it.
Did that Rodney guy that fucked people over with that ECU bullshit get banned?
Umm, no.
Rodney took money from multiple members, never delivered any product to certain members, nor gave any refund; was called out repeatedly on here and his account is still active.
Paul gets called to the carpet once, (and rightfully so) immediately coughs up $3k (regardless of whether it was before or after being called out) and is still treated like the devil incarnate.
Rodney took money from multiple members, never delivered any product to certain members, nor gave any refund; was called out repeatedly on here and his account is still active.
Paul gets called to the carpet once, (and rightfully so) immediately coughs up $3k (regardless of whether it was before or after being called out) and is still treated like the devil incarnate.
I don't know any of the backgrounds of the various members and am reading the OP for the very first time.
First off, this is seems to be a pretty horrible story and is unfortunate for the OP.
I agree with the sentiment of several users in that this is a "community". People need to be accountable. We should be able to share the good and the bad about our experiences with other members. This is no different than socializing in every day life. Business, especially smaller ones, rely heavily on word of mouth. You do good work, deliver good results, then people hear about it. The same goes when the experience is poor. Sure, not everyone can deliver A+++ in "every" interaction, but you work to make it right and ensure the "customer" is your focus. If someone is absolutely being "dishonest" in their engagements with others, then nobody wants to deal with that. I would think a "ban" or shunning of this person would be the consensus amongst the majority of the community.
Just like our every day lives, we are bound by the social contract with one another - those of us who are productive members of society. We should be able to rely on those of us in this "community" to be good on their word, and if things go awry, do everything in their power to make it right.
All in all, good riddance to him. I don't care if he is the holy grail of Hondas and Acuras. I lost complete respect and trust for the guy and I'd rather find any other means possible to learn something, or get something done, than deal with someone like that. Just my
This. Glad he's gone. And I didn't even know who he was until Frosty posted this.
For those who are questioning exactly why the ban was made, I believe that this is one of those judgement calls. There is no set hard line as to what constitutes a ban and what doesn't. If a line was set, it'd be arbitrary anyways. As someone pointed out before, what if someone offered a small service in exchange for couple drinks and some food? I think most people here would be okay with that. But now let's say that guy offering the service wants $10, would that be okay? What about $50? etc etc.
Basically what I'm saying is that to draw a clear cut line (for example $100) would be arbitrary. A result of this is that you'll have people who charge $99 and say it's within the rules. This is why a clear cut line CANNOT be made.
This is the reason judges exist in court, because not everything is clear cut, because it's not possible.
And as it applies to this forum, this is why mods exist, to read both sides of the story and let it be their call to see if a ban is necessary.
10-15-2014, 09:53 AM
@TacoCat
