Majofo

Your tiny rods don't need lube..

Majofo

and your cylinder walls have plenty clearance from what I hear..

nfnsquared

but peanuts help toss his salad.... and they will also help to break down stubborn deposits

Majofo

I think they fulfill the peanuts requirement

6spd-GERCO

Idle is smoother, there's less noise at idle, VTEC engages in a slightly different manner.

Majofo

I've been between 5w20 and 30.. I notice a difference, but not outside temperature dependent.

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

I'm sorry to actually post to a three year thread too, but Mobil 1 and Castrol 0w40's are the only full synthetics sold by the big oil brands. All the others are hydro-cracked Level III. Yes, Royal Purple, Amsoil, Lucas and Motul are also level IV or V base stock.

Btw, I've run 0w40 GC now for about 20k miles with no issues and before that I ran the 0w30 GC for about 15k.

Majofo

I hate cars

I'm glad I'm not the only one that's noticed. That's why I rarely visit acurazine at all.
Mobil One 0w-40 is a grp III as of early this year. No more true synthetics in Mobil's street oils.

I haven't checked in a while but last time I checked even Castrol's best oil was a grp III/IV mix.

Royal Purple is mostly IV but....... it consistently has very low HTHS values and this has shown up as considerably more wear in teardowns. The base oil probably holds up well over time and mileage but that oil is like a "qualifying" oil to me. You run a low HTHS so the oil temporarily sheers (thins out) under pressure and you make 1-2 more hp that you will never be able to measure but it's at the expense of engine wear which is not what most people want for their street cars. I don't like their gear oils either but they make a damn good oil filter.

Motul is a good oil, mostly grp V and one of the only others I would pay the extra money for. The reason I choose Redline over Motul is (as of the last time I looked) Motul plays by the rules and has less ZDDP and sulphated ash so it can be certified as a true SM/SN oil as well as various other designations that probably help them sell more oil. Nothing wrong with that, people like certifications even if meeting those certifications might mean a lesser oil. Redline on the other hand has lots of ZDDP and moly and does not meet current API standards because of this. It's supposed to be a catalytic converter killer but if your car burns no oil it can't kill the cats and with 131,000 miles using a high ZDDP oil I have to say that it's safe to use. ZDDP doesn't just help with flat tappet cams, it helps anywhere there's rubbing of ferrous metals such as the rings to cylinder wall and ring to cylinder wear is usually what determines when an engine is "worn out".


Some Amsoil is a true syn (grp IV or V) and some isn't. Luckily they label their oils honestly and charge accordingly. One thing to keep in mind, you're not going to have a pure grp IV oil, you don't want a pure grp IV oil. It's just not polar, it needs a grp III or V mixed in to work and you can guess which group most companies are going to blend with it and it's not the more expensive ester. For those that live in warmer areas, Amsoil's ACD is a very overlooked 30wt oil. I don't recommend it in areas that get below freezing but it's a robust straight 30 that qualifies as a 10w-30 with a heavy duty additive package. I used it for many thousands of miles. It used to be cheap for a synthetic, not sure if it still is.


I currently run Redline 0w-40 and have for a while now. I can't see a downside to it. It's almost a straight 40wt with very, very little VII added to get the 0w cold flow rating. It has a very high viscosity index which means less thinning when hot, less thickening when cold. It's about the same viscosity as their 5w-30 at around 60F and below 60F the 0w-40 is actually thinner. It's a great year round oil, thinner than the 5w-30 on cold starts and thicker when hot. Is it overkill? Very much so but there's no reason not to use it especially when people will pay almost the same thing for far inferior oils.


I had to use Mobil 0w-40 for about 1,000 miles and it's surprising how much louder the engine was on it. Noise doesn't mean much but I would still rather it be quiet as it is with Redline if I have the choice. The other thing I really didn't like about Mobil One is the rocker arms began to discolor. Up until I put Mobil in there, the rockers and everything under the valve cover looked like a brand new engine with oil dumped on it. For the first time my rocker arms and all of the steel parts began to discolor. I put the Redline back in and after about 1,500 miles they're almost back to normal color. Again, the change in color doesn't hurt anything but it makes me wonder what else is happening in the hot areas such as the piston ring land area with Mobil. Despite their tricky advertising, "Mobil One" teardowns tend to have overall good cleanliness except where it matters most, in the ring land area. They will keep the valve cover area nice and clean but with a good amount of discoloration (varnish?) but it leaves a good amount of itself behind in the ring land area which is where performance can be affected by deposits. In fact, a grp IV oil tends to leave more harmful deposits than grp III oils. The IV oils don't leave deposits as easily but they do leave deposits.


This, again, is why I only go with Ester based oils if I'm paying the synthetic oil price. Grp IV performs much closer to a grp III than it does a grp V in high temp deposit formation (additive package aside), grp V sticks to parts much better, tends to have a higher HTHS vs kinematic viscosity, a lower NOACK (less evaporation and thickening over time), and it's a great cleaner by itself. Grp IV on the other hand has a couple disadvantages over grp III oils so it's a very easy choice for me when buying oil. Either stick with a "regular" oil and save your money or if you choose to go synthetic, go with an ester based oil. Plus, with a "regular" synthetic you never know if it's grp III or IV and it's usually not easy to figure out. I must be very bored to reply to an oil thread these days. Just my opinion.

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

How is it that The Mobil 1and Castrol 0w40's can be sold in Europe as full synthetics? Since in Europe they don't allow Group III blends to be called full synthetic. Also, last I knew German Castrol (0w40) was still Group IV.

I may be wrong obviously as I'm no expert. I'm just basing my understanding on things I've read on bobistheoilguy.com.

Majofo

BITOG are filled with nothing but self-proclaimed chemists, but the reality is the only degrees and experience they have are in smoking poles and lubing their sphincters.

Majofo

There are some knowledgeable guys on BITOG but most of them have been chased away by the stupid. There's more stupid there than 3G and H-T put together.

polobunny

Errr, cmon, H-T.


@IHC
Totally overkill for most people here as you said.
99.9% of Azine could pickup any oil with the manufacturer recommended weight and be fine as long as they replace it when the MID tells them to.

I hate cars

The 0w40 was the last of Mobil's true synthetics. Maybe they still sell the synthetic stuff for the Euro market, I'm not sure. Over here, you're not getting a grp IV Mobil 0w-40 unless it's old stock. I actually only figured that out when I had to run Mobil One early this year and looked up the specs. I thought I had a grp IV and found out I didn't. It's still a great oil, I doubt the new version is any worse than the synthetic version. I only wish they lowered the price when they changed the base oil.


I like the fact that the European specs use logic and honesty. A synthetic must be synthetic to advertise it as synthetic. It sounds pretty simple but unfortunately our government has managed to screw that up, not surprisingly. Nothing is ever black and white it seems, even when it is.


I also like that they don't have CAFE and general government interference in the viscosity recommendations. I copied this from another thread on here but look at the European Mobil site where everything from a 0w-20 to a 10w-40 is deemed acceptable for the Honda 3.7L based on usage and climate. That's how it should be. 0w-20 is not the best for every condition as they would have us believe over here. Over there you're free to use what's best for your engine based on your conditions.


Off topic I know and not aimed at anyone in this thread.


https://acurazine.com/forums/fourth-...engine-923130/




The following is copied from the Mobil 1 UK website.

Make
HONDA
Model
Legend 3.7 VTEC V6 Saloon 4WD (217kW)
Engine
P
Year
2008-
MOBIL 1 ESP 0W-30
Application Recommendation Capacity (ltr)
Engine (P) MOBIL 1 ESP 0W-30 (a) 4.3
Lubricant / Capacity Notes

a. Alternative recommendations: <-30°C to >40°C, 0W-20/0W-30/0W-40; <-30°C to >40°C, 5W-30/5W-40; -20°C to >40°C, 10W-30/10W-40
General Notes

There are no notes to display for this model

This is from the Castrol UK website

RECOMMENDATIONS
FIND THE RIGHT OIL FOR YOUR VEHICLE
REFINE SEARCH NEW SEARCH
MAKE: Honda MODEL: Legend, KB (2005 - ) TYPE: Legend 3.7 V6 (2008 - )

IT'S MORE THAN JUST OIL. IT'S LIQUID ENGINEERING.
YOUR ENGINE OIL RECOMMENDATION
EDGE 0W-30
Use: Normal (Change 15000 km / 12 months)
Filter: 0,3 liter , Capacity: 4,3 liter Service fill, Capacity: 5 liter Dry fill


From the Castrol German website

MARKE: Honda MODELL: Legend, KB (2005 - ) TYP: Legend 3.7 V6 (2008 - )
MOTORENÖLE FÜR SIE

CASTROL EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4
Einsatz: Normal (Wechseln 15000 km / 12 Monate)
Filterkapazität: 0,3 Liter , Füllmenge (gesamt): 4,3 Liter Servicebefüllung, Füllmenge (gesamt): 5 Liter Trockenfüllung
Mit der Stärke von Titanium FST™. Für viele Fahrzeuge mit Otto- und Dieselmotoren, die einen Motorenschmierstoff nach den internationalen Spezifikationen ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4 oder API SN/CF fordern.
API SN/CF; ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4; VW 502 00/ 505 00; MB-Freigabe 229.3/ 229.5; BMW Longlife-01; Porsche A40; Meets Ford WSS-M2C937-A

From the Mobil 1 German website

Fabrikat
HONDA
Modell
Legend 3.7 VTEC V6 Saloon 4WD (217kW)
Motor
B
Jahr
2008-
Mobil 1 Fuel Economy 0W-30
Anwendung Empfehlung Kapazität (l)
Motor (B) 1. Wahl Mobil 1 Fuel Economy 0W-30 (a) 4.3
2. Wahl Mobil Super 3000 X1 Formula FE 5W-30
Schaltgetriebe
Automatisches Getriebe
Differential
Kühlmittel
Hinweise Schmiermittel/Kapazität

a. Alternative Empfehlungen: <-30°C bis >40°C, 0W-20/0W-30/0W-40; <-30°C bis >40°C, 5W-30/5W-40; -20°C bis >40°C, 10W-30/10W-40
Allgemeine Hinweise

Es gibt keine Hinweise zur Anzeige für dieses Modell

Ölwechselabstände

Motor
Monate max. 12
Km max. 20000
Copyright © OATS Ltd. 2014

Majofo

Nice

I hate cars

Agreed. That's the problem. The place started off with really knowledgeable people back where I didn't post, I just read and tried to soak it up. If you want a good education, search only for posts >8 years old.


Back when people thought thicker was better and I was ok with the anti thicker is better movement. But just like everything it was taken too far to the point anyone who dared suggest that a 5w-30 in a hot climate for 90% freeway usage may protect better than a 0w-20 was immediately crucified and labeled an idiot.


Now it's like a heard of sheep following the newest trends. It's pretty predictable. The knowledgeable people have stepped down which happens everywhere whether it's here on the internet or in real life because the insecure not-so-smart self proclaimed experts tend to be the loudest.


I've watched guys come on bitog knowing nothing about oil asking very, very basic questions. Then I log in again a month later and see the same person giving advice as an expert which is nothing more than regurgitated nonsense from the other self proclaimed experts.


Those "experts" don't bother to challenge the basis of which most oils are judged over there, the UOA. It's accepted as gospel. However, the UOA is not a tool for measuring engine wear. It's a tool for measuring oil life and catching failures not related to wear (like a bad air filter or blown head gasket, or acidic buildup) before they become big problems.


There's been some good research on different types of wear in an engine and accelerated wear is generally accepted to produce larger particles. The $30 UOA cannot pick up particles bigger than 5 microns while it's generally agreed that accelerated wear produces wear metals >10 microns in size and at that size a really good filter can begin to pick them up anyway. See the problem here? The test only "sees" a narrow size range of particles and is blind to the most important size range. The other problem is particle density which a UOA has no idea.


Even worse is oxidation shows up as wear metals so when an oil like Mobil One or Redline that's shown to have good cleaning abilities is used, the oil gets condemned for excessive wear metals when all it was doing was cleaning up the engine. I'm sure most have heard of the excessive iron levels with Mobil One. I believe it was unfairly condemned.


Then the experts don't know how to interpret the results of the UOAs. I'm no expert by a mile but I do know that before I condemn an air filter for silicone I need to see a VOA on the oil to see how much the oil comes with. I know that some oils have wear metals in the VOA. I know that some oils, especially ester oils tend to "lose" their TBN quickly at first but then the number practically stops going down and will last a very, very long time before the oil needs to be condemned. Without knowing about the ester oils occasionally showing false high wear metals and not knowing the TBN goes down quickly at first, I might say Redline and Mobil One are shitty oils.


The only correct way to judge engine wear and oil effectiveness is through a tear down. Most people aren't going to tear their engines down to see how their oil is doing so next best is a particle count. I see this as a mostly legit way to at least get an idea of engine wear. The only problem is it costs more. It's not totally out of the question for the average person but you're not going to want to be obsessive as many are and do several per OCI.


There was a guy by the name of georgeCLS or something like that. He did this for a living. I believe he had a PHd in a related field. He was one of the first to post the shortcomings of the UOA used for wear detection and he was shoved out of there by the uneducated masses because he dared to present facts.


The fact is, with rare exception, bitog's recommendations are largely based on feelings and partial truths. People like me that have torn down engines based on both failure and curiosity are immediately discredited when we find a trend that shows consistently that a higher HTHS directly relates to lower bearing and cylinder wear. They will believe their UOAs over micrometers. Every engine I build is blueprinted so I know what's wearing and how quickly when I tear it apart. I had a near failure where the cylinders had .01" wear, all of the rod and main bearings were down nearly to the backing, etc. I could see the sparkly oil when changing it, I could see my oil pressure fading quickly but the UOAs came back ok. Even then, they have unwavering faith in UOAs.


They say things like Redline is overkill for a street car but at another time say xxx oil is better than Redline and you should be using it in your street car. I don't get how Redline is so good it's overkill yet the flavor of the month oil is better and should be used in every street car all the time. Yes, Redline will usually lower wear in a race engine but it will also lower wear in a low stress street engine driven by grandma. Most engines will outlast the cars they're in on any oil at any OCI but they won't be in the same shape when they get there and there are people like me that keep cars forever and put enough miles on them where I will see the benefits of the better oils. Most people have never torn down multiple engines run on an ester oil to see that 100% of the time there are no deposits in the ring land area and most of the time almost no measurable engine wear anywhere. On the flip side, every engine I've torn down on Mobil One has very hard, abrasive deposits in the ring land area and occasionally a stuck ring. These deposits are pretty normal for any grp IV, not just Mobil. The grp III oils tend to have more deposits but softer deposits that might have been cleaned up with an engine oil treatment. This is why I say if you're going to pay the synthetic price, use a synthetic oil that actually makes a difference. I don't care if people run synthetic or dino but it makes no sense to pay double for a grp IV oil that does not outperform a good grp III or to pay double for a grp III badged as a synthetic.


I go to bitog to get basic facts on oil, such as HTHS and VI that I can find more quickly on bitog than by searching the rest of the internet. They're usually good at copying and pasting new info about the popular oils so I'll skim over some of the new posts for a brief update every few months. Beyond that I don't bother because each person has no humility, can not grasp that they may be wrong, and will regurgitate the same old shit over and over with no basis to try and win an argument. I get a laugh sometimes reading VOAs and UOAs and reading people saying This is the bestest oil evaaaaar!.


Basically don't believe everything you read on bitog. There are still some knowledgeable members there but most don't post at all or rarely post. If you're new to cars and oil, use your common sense over there, you probably know more than the self proclaimed experts. They present themselves as scientists and engineers but they only thing they question is thick vs thin and SM vs SN when they need to be questioning the very basis of their beliefs and how they're judging an oil. The thing I hate is I put my money where my mouth is. I run a car rated for a 5w-20 on a 0w-40 with lots of catalytic converter killing additives. They still say it will be the end of your converters in one OCI while mine show good efficiency at 131,000 miles. You can't argue with experience over there and the guys with none will argue the hardest. Bitog is very similar to the 3g section over here.

Xshot

Mobil 1 usually, but I will use Pennzoil Platinum when they have outrageous sales.

Majofo

Didn't you get banned from BITOG IHC?

I hate cars

Yes sir. They weren't ready for me lol.


Actually I found out one of my co-workers in the IT department had a big hand in that, trolling every post I made so I had some real life fun with him.


I may or may not be registered over there still, but I don't post. I'll get the urge maybe once a year, make a post, and regret it immediately.

optical24

Any input on Motul and Shell Rotella T6?

polobunny

Not worth the time though. I lurk to see the UOA for different cars and different uses and check oil specs, but as you said it's largely impacted by what's trending in the motor oil world.

I hate cars

I wish I could help but I'm out of time. Both great oils. I have a preference for Motul just because most of their oils are ester based with good additive packages.


T6 is obviously a heavy duty "diesel" oil. It has high levels of zinc and phosphorus which is why (I think) they started emphasizing "diesel" use on the bottle. It's up to you if you want to use an oil with high zddp. I have since the car was new and my cats are fine at 130,000 miles. If the car burns any oil, don't use it.


The T6 doesn't have a very high viscosity index so you probably don't want to go above a 30wt as it will be pretty thick when cold.


For better cold flow, a better base oil, an "normal" amounts of ZDDP, I would go with Motul. As many have said, any oil will be fine for the TL, it's up to you if you want to pay more for a "better" oil though T6 is pretty cheap.


I haven't looked at T6 in a while so I might be talking out of my ass lol.


Hope that helps a little.

I hate cars

Just saw you're in Ontario, I don't know how hot your summers get but I would probably stay away from the T6, at least in the winter. Look for something with a high viscosity index (VI) with good cold flow without sacrificing HTHSv too much. High VI and high HTHS usually do not go together. That's why I've been sold on Redline 0w-40, it's got an almost 200VI while having a 4.0 HTHSv. Toyota also makes a very high VI synthetic 0w20 that's great for mixing with thicker and lower VI oils for cold climates.


Just to clarify, the ultimate goal in an oil would be to have one that stays the same viscosity no matter how cold or how hot. If it would be say 12cSt at startup and 12cSt once fully hot you would have the ultimate oil. The higher the VI, the closer you get to that goal but nothing is free and with a higher VI (usually) comes a lower HTHSv.

nfnsquared

Had not heard this. Where did you find the new specs that show it's now a Grp III oil?

Actually, our government had nothing to do with it. It was all determined by arbitration brought by Exxon Mobil against Castrol before the National Advertising Review Council (part of the National Advertising Division of the BBB) in 1999. The case # is 3526. If you are a BBB member and have a subscription to the NARC (http://www.narcpartners.org/reports/CaseReports.aspx), you can download the pdf. Otherwise, you can find the entire report of the arbitration case and findings here:

Mobil v Castrol (RE:Synthetic) - TDIClub Forums

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the info, you obviously know your stuff. At least walmart has 5qt jugs for $23.88 which isn't bad even if it isn't a true synthetic anymore.

Do you know if the German Castrol is still a true synthetic or have they gone to a blend also?

I hate cars

I'm not sure about the current batch of GC. At one time it was mostly a grp IV.


You're right, the M1 is a great oil at a great price. If I weren't so OCD I would run it.

I hate cars

I've read it before. By "government" I was talking about the courts and also thinking about CAFE and others that force 0w20 on everyone no matter what climate they live in. I don't like the fact that after losing, Mobil began doing the same thing they were suing Castrol for and that's another reason I tend to stay away from their products but obviously not always.


I found that the 0w40 is now fully grpIII after I had already dumped it in my car and decided to see how it compared to the previous batch of Redline 0w40. I probably searched something to the effect of Mobil One vs Redline 0w40. I didn't expect to find that, I was just curious about the VI of the Mobil 0w-40 and then I found it's no longer grp IV. I'm pretty sure it was on bitog. I may have a link saved in my phone if you don't find it.

nfnsquared

Again, there was no court involved in the NARC arbitration case and the decision is not legally binding in any manner. The major oil companies have all just decided to use the decision to their "advantage" to classify Group III oils as fully synthetic (in the U.S.).

I've Googled high and low and can find no documentation indicating that Mobil 1 0W40 is now a Group III oil. If anyone else can find a link, please post it here

And here's a gem I found on BITOG. This guy has too much time on his hands

Oil comparison chart

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

In your opinion would you say GC is still a good oil, or is it worth spending more for Redline or Motul? Mind you, I change my oil every 5k miles irrespective of what the MID says.

I hate cars

There practically are no bad oils today. Anything above and beyond plain cheap dino oil might be considered overkill.


It's my opinion that going with the ester based oils are worth it because there will be less wear and the engines are always cleaner, especially where it counts most. There are no places hot enough in the engine (unless you're getting oil into the combustion chambers) to cause an ester to bake off and leave deposits. The additive package can leave deposits but it's not happening with Redline or Motul. There are real tangible benefits with these oils no matter what bitog will say, the hard part is deciding if it's worth it. The engine might go 300,000 miles on regular oil and 500,000 on a really good oil. Is that going to matter to most people, nope.


I'm sure GC is still overkill for the TL whether it's a grp III or IV or a mix.


But again, the engine is likely to outlast the car no matter what you use. I like to see how perfect I can keep the engine and I don't plan on selling the car so Redline is worth the extra money for me. Plus, I drive under 3k a year now so I just change it once a year though I used the same oils when I did 30k a year and went 5-6k on them with an occasional 8k run.

TacoBello

Wahteva, hatter.

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for your opinion. You obviously are quite knowledgeable about oil and many other things.

I used to run Motorcraft 5w20 for a while and religiously changed it at 3k, and it would come out black. Now with the GC when I do a change at 5k it's only slightly darker than brand new oil.

I plan on keeping my TL until it essentially dies. I still love the way it drives, looks and with the service manual I'm comfortable tackling pretty much any repairs it may need. In fact I'm in the process of replacing the steering rack now since it leaks out of the driver's side inner tie rod even with the engine off.

TacoBello

Where do you buy "German castrol"?

polobunny

One would be inclined to say Germany.




Look for Castrol 0W-30 made in Germany (shows it on the label). You can get it at Canadian Tire sometimes.

I hate cars

Thanks. It's more like I'm bored at work pretty often lol.


I look at it like this.... I bought the car new, used a good oil in it since it's first oil change. I've tracked it and generally driven it hard at times but I'm really nice to it 99% of the time. Pretty soon it will get to an age where an engine failure might not be worth fixing especially considering the 5at is bound to go out one day so I've already got money put aside for that.... but an engine failure too, probably not getting fixed. Anyway, it's been paid off for many years and costs me very little to drive. As it ages I don't want it to barely be limping along, having to add oil and replace catalytic converters every 6 months because it's burning oil or have mpg take a dive because it's lost some compression due to a stuck ring or general wear. I want the engine to not only make it to high mileage, I want it to run like new still. That's my reasoning anyway. I started with Redline for a track day and never stopped using it but before that I used a really good Amsoil (ACD) for most of it's life. From the time I drove it off the dealer lot I knew I was going to drive it till the wheels fall off. I've already bought a new car but basically gave it to the fiancée (more like she stole it) because I realized I didn't need a new car. I got bored with the TL for a while but it's been nearly 10 years. Now I just change up the audio from time to time and it keeps me from getting too bored with it.


With that said if I had planned on replacing it every 5 years like I think the average person does I would not have run the "good stuff" in it. I know this isn't much help with all of the going back and forth but the oil you use has a lot to do with your intentions for the car and your climate.


Almost forgot, you'll probably like it even more after the rack replacement. Mine felt fine at about 80k but once I replaced it, the on center feel was much better and I was instantly reminded of how it drove when new. Things like the rack and shocks, etc, wear out so slowly over time that you don't realize they've degraded until you replace them.

nfnsquared

You can't judge oil by the color at oil change. A darker oil could merely be (and is most likely) due to more dirt in suspension, which is exactly what it's supposed to do.

The fact that the Motorcraft oil was darker COULD be due to a better detergent package, e.g. it cleaned the engine better.....

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

Actually, the 0w30 used to be the GC but now it's made in Belgium unless it was old stock, and the 0w40 used to be made in Belgium but now it's made in Germany.

That makes sense. I still can't get used to my MID going down to 30% oil life with the 5k OCI compared to when I did 3k OCI it'd show 60% oil life remaining. That was when the car had like 60k on it and now it has 120k.

polobunny

I stand corrected. I haven't put GC in a car in a while. I remember the panic when it changed from green to amber though!

I hate cars

Yep, it can literally be a good thing sometimes. Certain additives cause it to get dark just from heat cycling too. When I rebuilt transmissions and did a lot of patch jobs for used car dealers one trick I learned that they used was running a non detergent oil. Those oils seemed to start off lighter in color and practically never changed. So basically I would be worried if an oil did change over time.

On the flip side when I've had a worn engine I've had oil go pitch black in 500 miles with temps hitting 300F with normal driving because of so much blowby which also can turn it darker quicker.

Majofo

IHC will be 90 before his car hits 500k.