JTbulldawg

Hey guys,

This is my first post on Acurazine. I have always loved the 3rd Gen TL Type S. I was in the market for a new car, and after a lengthy search, I finally bought a 2007 NBP 6-speed Type S last week! Woohoo!! I will be officially introducing myself on the forum later, but for now, I have a question.


I have searched for this but couldn’t find anything on Acurazine... My buddy told me about some guys using 2 Cycle Oil (TC-W3 rated) in very small amounts in their fuel. I read a little of the thread in the forum he told me about and they have been adding 1 oz. of the 2 cycle stuff per 4- 5 gallons of fuel. I have used fuel system cleaner in previous cars, and I’ve read several posts on Acurazine about fuel system cleaners, are they really needed etc, etc. I was very skeptical of using 2 Cycle Oil, but as I kept reading through the posts, the more convincing it got. I won’t try to explain what all the "benefits" are since it is explained in the first few pages of the linked forum… Anyways, whenever you guys get some time, check out this forum and let me know what you think. My main question: are these guys crazy? Or is this actually a good thing to do? The link is below. Thanks!

http://www.ls1.com/forums/f48/been-testing-91206/

mr_raja

Hey JT,
First off, welcome to AZ!!
Secondly, I think adding oil with fuel works in carburetors only. With the fuel injection, adding oil with fuel might do damage than any good. I know my dad used to do that in his old car, with carbs in it, every once in a while to "optimize" the carb, but I cant think of anyone using that in the FIs.

I think more experienced folks here on AZ will give you a better answer to that.

Jtai

Fuel is full of additives. I would not mess around with adding anything else.

That is just my thoughts no facts or proof to back anything up

Toddy

iTrader: (5)

Running 2 stroke oil is common in the rotary crowd. It allows them to delete the oil pump and is supposed to give the car a few extra HP. It only works because of the way the rotary engine runs. Never heard of it being used on anything else

LaCostaRacer

I wouldn't do it since the TL engine gets it's lubrication via oil pump as Toddy wrote. Two cycle oil is intended to lubricate the piston during combustion mostly.

I do put Lucas Fuel Treatment in my car on occasion and that is a thick oily like liquid. It cleans the fuel injectors and boosts octane- car seems to run a little better. I place a little bit every couple of months- in fact I'll do it now since I have a full tank.

mau108

Use only the 2 working fuel system cleaners

Techron and Redline SL-1. Nothing else works as well and well the two are made for fuel system cleaning. Don't put 2 cycle oil in your fuel.

Guiltyox

Rotary engines purposely burn oil. It uses the oil to coat the engine components, because of its design, to preserve their life. So you are, indeed, correct sir :-D.

As mentioned above, gas is full of additives. I wouldn't tinker with that. You want more bang for you buck? Go to a gas station that offers octane higher than 91/93 and use that.

JTbulldawg

Thanks for the replies guys! If anyone has a chance to read through that forum and becomes convinced that it may actually work, let us know. Until then, I'll just keep using 93 octane gas and the occasional techron and lucas treatments. She's running great right now so no need to mess anything up.

Here's the link again in case anyone is interested...

http://www.ls1.com/forums/f48/been-testing-91206/


Thanks!

flyromeo3

i remember my brother doing that when he had an rx-7. I suspect this only works with rotary engines.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

The rotary actually has a separate oil metering pump that injects the oil into the chamber to lubricate the seals and also has a conventional oil pump, similar design to a piston engine, that lubricates the bearings. If the metering oil pump becomes disabled for any reason or one wants to increase the lube they add the 2 cycle oil into the gas tank, maybe 6 oz p/tank, commonly known as pre-mix..
Adding 2 cycle oil to the tank in a piston engine certainly won't do any harm as many add MM oil, ZMax, Seafoam, FI cleaners, upper cyl lube, with no ill effects, but as far as I'm concerned no positive results with any. Adding 3 oz to a full tank certainly won't yield, better mileage, stop corrosion, clean spark plug/valves/combustion chambers, clean ring packs, eliminate the cylinder wall cold start, nor lubricate the fuel pump.
The fuel pump is lubed and cooled by the fuel and as the fuel injectors shut off simultaneously when the ignition is off, unburned fuel/oil lube will never enter the engine to linger on the cyl walls waiting for another startup..
This 2 cycle oil is needed in the rotary and in 2 stroke engines and without the added lube they aren't going to run for long, but no place in a piston engine.

Once again, my

splew

2-cycle engine oil is designed to be used with 2 cycle engines. It is mixed in with the fuel because 2-cycle engines lack a sump full of oil and an internal lubrication system, so they rely on oil drawn from the fuel run through them.

Modern automotive 4-stroke piston engines (fitted to the TL and every other modern car minus Mazda rotaries) maintan a reservoir of oil in the sump and use an oil pump to circulate it through the engine to provide lubrication.

So long story short, there is really no need to add lubricating oil to the gasoline on a 4-stroke engine. If anything, it might make the car run slightly worse, since you're trying to force fairly viscous lubricating oil through the tiny holes in the fuel injectors.

I hate cars

Don't run 2-stroke oil in your TL. Catalytic converters don't like oil. For starters, here's his quote:


What we are trying to accomplish ( The deliverables)
We need to lubricate the fuel pump/seals/injectors.
We need to clean the fuel system and scavenge water that ethanol attracts.

Up to this point it's ok. You could get slightly longer life out of the fuel pump, maybe the injectors but the ones I've seen fail, fail electrically most of the time.

We need a film of protection in our fuel system to stop corrosion.

Nope, most modern tanks have a liner and even if it's just metal, corrosion is a non issue unless you're constantly filling up at a station that has water in the fuel.

We need a cleaner for our spark plugs/valves/combustion chambers.

Oil is not a cleaner first off. It will cause more carbon buildup over time. Second, we don't need a cleaner for any of the things mentioned. Anyone who has pulled the plugs out of a TL after 100,000 miles knows this. As long as a good fuel is used which contains plenty of detergents, valves and combustion chamber deposits are a non issue.

We need to clean the ring packs

"Ring packs" will not be cleaned with fuel or oil added to the fuel. The buildup in the ring land area is from the crank case oil coking from the heat. Use a good oil (in the crank case) and this is a non issue.
We need to leave a film on the cylinder walls to eliminate cold start metal wear.

There is already a film of oil on the cylinders at startup. I've torn engines down after sitting for 6 months and there's oil on the cylinders. Besides, some of the cylinders will go though 3 strokes before an injector fires with this "super oil" in the fuel.

This was my groups short list of deliverables. Of course we knew if we accomplished this list the car should A) Run Smoother B) Run more efficiently C) Parts will last longer i.e. fuel pumps/injectors etc. D) We should see more RWHP and MPG
We did it. For pennies.
2 Stroke oil. Not just any two stroke oil But we needed the detergents etc. and found the perfect oil/add packs/viscosity in a marine 2 stroke oil you can get for under $10 bucks a gallon anywhere. We used Pennzoil Marine 2 stroke for our testing. Here is the "blurb" from Pennzoil....."

Maybe I'll read some more of this for comedy relief. I would love to see these so called results. This guy knows just enough to be dangerous and to convince less knowledgeable people that he knows what he's talking about.

I hate cars

Oh, and av gas is known to be drier so basing his experiment on the aviation industry is pointless.

These are the types of dumbasses that blindly follow what this guy says:

surfinjoe Member Join DateNov 2005LocationRoyal Oak, MichiganAge39Posts240
Black2004 GTO A4

joelmatt89

iTrader: (1)

Haha great quote, that thread is pretty funny

SouthernBoy

You left out Sea Foam.


As for adding 2-cycle oil to gas, no way I would even consider that. IHC gave the best reasons for this. Your cats are going to hate you for doing something like this. Using a quality fuel at a station that does a lot of business is your best bet.

But it IS your engine so if you are of a mind, have at it.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

I don't believe it would have any adverse effect on the cats as the rotary has 3 cats, 2 on the Turbo and no problems with oil being sprayed into the mix. Also, a car that uses a quart every 1,000 miles is a higher concentration (@11oz to the tankful) then the 3 oz/tank and no problems with cat contamination.

JTbulldawg

Thanks I hate cars, very good analysis. Maybe these "results" people are supposedly seeing are all in their heads?

Thanks again for all the replies. I'm not going to act like I know a whole lot about how engines work and he is pretty convincing I figured it would be a good idea to pose the question here before I tried something like that.