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I have a 04 TL base model, 73K miles. Engine light came on, went off, came on, went off. Took it to the dealer today, predictably was an O2 sensor. While I'm there, they do the full look around, and this is what they came up with:
O2 sensor and brakes I get. The car drives fine, are they just phishing? I am living in San Francisco right now, so I know that things cost more out here, but some of the prices seem pretty high. Help please
You're nowhere close to the 105k mile service, but considering the age of the car, it could be a good idea to do the timing belt. I believe it was 105k or 10yrs, whichever comes first.
Check your engine mounts to make sure they're still in working order. There's DIYs here, but I personally wouldn't be comfortable doing it myself as you have to make sure the engine itself is aligned.
Transmission flush is easy, it's basically like an oil change. I bought 9qts of ATF for $68 and will be doing it myself, nice to know I'm going to save about $200.
Holy hell if you pay all that you may as well use that as a down payment on a newer TL.
Is this even factoring in labor? Or are they quoting you prices for parts?
you can buy a brake package for all 4 rotors/pads for about the same price from one of our vendors for what they are charging for one set of front pads.
Timing Belt is due when you get a "4" on your MID. No time limit. Don't do it.
There's a note about an oil leak?
Passenger side mount is about 50 bucks in parts so I guess the other 50 is for labor. You can inspect this yourself and it is the easiest labor wise to get to.
Notes you need a new power steering pump. Is it whining? Any symptoms that it is bad? Price seems to be about right for that assuming it is an OEM pump.
Tie rod ends- noticing any symptoms?
For a single drain and fill of the tranny fluid, that is way too high. for a 3x3..meh not terribly excessive.
Brake fluid- when was the last time it was changed? Price seems about right.
A bit of a rip off IMO. Move along and try a Honda dealer or independent mechanic.
For around ~$400 (or less), you can buy all 4 rotors and pads and install yourself (not that hard at all), yet they're only replacing your front pads and re-surfacing the existing rotors, I assume the fronts only as well...
Do you have any symptoms like a whining noise when you turn the steering wheel, unevenly worn tires or tightness or looseness of the steering wheel? If not, don't bother with the PS pump and tie rods.
The timing belt is due when a message with a "4" shows up on the Maintenance Minder screen, so don't do that service yet.
Do you have maintenance records on the car?
If so, check for a brake fluid change every three years and a transmission fluid change/"flush" around 60K miles-- that's per the owner's manual (service "3" is the trans fluid change message). If there wasn't one within the past two years, have a brake fluid change done when the brakes are done-- you should get a discount if the brake flush is done when the pads are changed.
The transmission fluid should be drained and filled, not "flushed" or pumped out mechanically.
That’s a big total – roughly $4,000. I’m guessing that’s why the top two items are checked and the others have a line next to them – not as urgent. As a former resident of SF for 6-years, the prices aren’t individually ridiculous, and each item is common wear/tear for a 2004-2008 Acura TL, but I would hope they would give some discount – for example, the side mount is already removed when they do the timing belt, so putting in a new part shouldn’t add additional labor.
Part-by-part thoughts are below, and with some elbow grease you could probably get everything done for $1,500+. To summarize, I suggest you (i) fix the O2 Sensor now and possibly the front brakes + brake fluid, and at some point in the future, (ii) do the timing belt, side mount, power steering pump, and transmission fluid at the same time. If you’re somewhat mechanically inclined, you could do the O2 Sensor and Power Steering Pump yourself and save $400:
O2 Sensor ($270) – do this soon. If you don’t, the catalytic converter can be ruined, and that’s a much more expensive repair (especially in CA). I did a write-up for one – it’s a pretty easy fix that you could do for $100. Link to my fix.
Front Brakes ($360) – ask how much wear is left. There are probably other brake places that would do the front brakes for $150.
Timing Belt ($2,000) – I would consider waiting until the MID tells you to do it. Then, find a shop like the one I listed, and they’ll likely be closer to $1,000.
Side Mount ($100) – the car will drive ok with a broken mount, but get it fixed when you do the timing belt since they will already pull out the old, broken one. $57 for the part.
Power Steering Pump ($370) – the TL’s PS pump often leaks due to old seals, while the rest of the pump is 100% fine. The seals cost ~$10, and a rebuild could be done in 1 hour, so hopefully a shop would do this for $110.
Steering Tie Rods ($500) – mine have been torn for 30k miles, and it doesn’t really affect anything. I suggest leaving them alone.
Transmission Flush ($250) – good preventative maintenance. Should be an easy thing to add for $50-$100 whenever they do the major timing belt service.
Brake Fluid Flush ($120) – probably good to do the same time they do the brakes, and $120 isn’t a ridiculous price. Hopefully the brake people would add $60-$80 to the price of a brake change. The Shop lists $66.
Holy hell if you pay all that you may as well use that as a down payment on a newer TL.
Is this even factoring in labor? Or are they quoting you prices for parts?
This does include labor, its the Acura Dealership in San Bruno, CA. I will be looking for a cheaper alternative.
you can buy a brake package for all 4 rotors/pads for about the same price from one of our vendors for what they are charging for one set of front pads.
Timing Belt is due when you get a "4" on your MID. No time limit. Don't do it.
There's a note about an oil leak?
Passenger side mount is about 50 bucks in parts so I guess the other 50 is for labor. You can inspect this yourself and it is the easiest labor wise to get to.
Notes you need a new power steering pump. Is it whining? Any symptoms that it is bad? Price seems to be about right for that assuming it is an OEM pump.
Tie rod ends- noticing any symptoms?
For a single drain and fill of the tranny fluid, that is way too high. for a 3x3..meh not terribly excessive.
Brake fluid- when was the last time it was changed? Price seems about right.
Guy at dealership told me 7 years or 100K miles - it's clearly > 7 years.
Not noticing any handling issues for the tie rod ends.
Brake fluid probably needs a change as well as transmission, I will be looking for a independent guy or the Honda dealership.
That’s a big total – roughly $4,000. I’m guessing that’s why the top two items are checked and the others have a line next to them – not as urgent. As a former resident of SF for 6-years, the prices aren’t individually ridiculous, and each item is common wear/tear for a 2004-2008 Acura TL, but I would hope they would give some discount – for example, the side mount is already removed when they do the timing belt, so putting in a new part shouldn’t add additional labor.
Part-by-part thoughts are below, and with some elbow grease you could probably get everything done for $1,500+. To summarize, I suggest you (i) fix the O2 Sensor now and possibly the front brakes + brake fluid, and at some point in the future, (ii) do the timing belt, side mount, power steering pump, and transmission fluid at the same time. If you’re somewhat mechanically inclined, you could do the O2 Sensor and Power Steering Pump yourself and save $400:
O2 Sensor ($270) – do this soon. If you don’t, the catalytic converter can be ruined, and that’s a much more expensive repair (especially in CA). I did a write-up for one – it’s a pretty easy fix that you could do for $100. Link to my fix.
Front Brakes ($360) – ask how much wear is left. There are probably other brake places that would do the front brakes for $150.
Timing Belt ($2,000) – I would consider waiting until the MID tells you to do it. Then, find a shop like the one I listed, and they’ll likely be closer to $1,000.
Side Mount ($100) – the car will drive ok with a broken mount, but get it fixed when you do the timing belt since they will already pull out the old, broken one. $57 for the part.
Power Steering Pump ($370) – the TL’s PS pump often leaks due to old seals, while the rest of the pump is 100% fine. The seals cost ~$10, and a rebuild could be done in 1 hour, so hopefully a shop would do this for $110.
Steering Tie Rods ($500) – mine have been torn for 30k miles, and it doesn’t really affect anything. I suggest leaving them alone.
Transmission Flush ($250) – good preventative maintenance. Should be an easy thing to add for $50-$100 whenever they do the major timing belt service.
Brake Fluid Flush ($120) – probably good to do the same time they do the brakes, and $120 isn’t a ridiculous price. Hopefully the brake people would add $60-$80 to the price of a brake change. The Shop lists $66.
Thank you, my plan is to do O2 sensor and Brakes and then find a guy who can do the other stuff in the future.
when I ever I heard "Tranmission flush" I got one word of advice to you, RUN.
Actually, the owner's manual and Acura TSBs do call change of the auto trans fluid a "flush," but they describe the drain-and-fill 3 x 3 method of changing it. Just bad terminology on Acura's part-- owners just have to confirm the "flush" method used by the shop as a non-mechanical drain-and-fill.
Originally Posted by paularsen
Brake fluid probably needs a change as well as transmission, I will be looking for a independent guy or the Honda dealership.
There are a lot of independent Honda specialists, and the TL engines are the same J-series as those used on the V6 Honda cars, vans and trucks.
A lot of those services are definitely overpriced (the brake fluid flush is the only reasonable one). As others have said, no need to do the timing belt early- wait til MID says '4' and then it's time (should be ~ 100-105K)- you can do it early but it's totally unnecessary. I also recommend an independent shop for the brakes, as it can very likely be done for less if you don't feel comfortable doing them yourself.
When I was contemplating getting my belt done, the Acura dealer told me I could go 10 years/120K and still be fine. I did my belt at 11 years and 118K.
I am of the opinion that how you drive the car has a lot to do with how long things last. occasional spirited driving is fine but if you are constantly running up into the upper RMP range, you should service your car sooner for major things.
1. Do your own brakes cost for front rotors and lifetime cmax pads are about $120 with everything you need to do the job
2. Trans is easy to do, unless you are beating the piss out of your car 4 quarts and a drain and fill will be fine. (you will use a bit over 3)
3. O2 sensor you can easily change that yourself with some penetrating oil and a socket set. DO IT or you will be putting in a cat and that is BIG BIG BIG $$$.
4. Timing belt? I would do it simply due to age, belts dry out over time and degrade, depending on the production date of your car it could be up to over 12 years old. that is an interference engine and if that belt snaps, you are toast. BTW Acura/Honda figures an average of 15K miles a year and that is how they came to 7 years or 105K for their previous cars. When my car was 7 years old I barely had 75K on mine. I did my belt at 11 years and 118K. based on production date, my car is nearing 14 years old (early 02 CLS here)
5. PS pump, like the others said, the pumps are solid so getting a rebuild kit and doing it yourself is the best bet. The kit is just a bunch of seals.
6. Do your mounts (the front and side ones, when you do your belt, the side mount is busted, it won't be long before the front one craps on its self due to the increased stress. My engine mounts lasted me until about 115K before I had the trans, side and front mounts replaced.
I had a repair bill of $2400 for the following on my car back in May 2013
Timing belt
A/C condenser
Front and both side mounts
Oil sending unit
lower ball joint
Those prices are high, get a breakout of material and labor times. price the parts out yourself. Let alone the need for all that work which I would suspect as overblown as well. If you have the ability to do the work yourself or have a good local mechanic you can save significant $$
The prices are a bit high, but I had pretty much all of those items done at some point over the life of my 2004 TL. Those are all common wear items.
O2 sensor - obviously this is needed
brake pads - a common wear item
timing belt package - even though you're not at 105k yet, the car is 10 years old, so this is a good idea. Honda typically recommends doing the timing belt at 8 yrs if miles haven't been met yet.
pass side engine mount - these commonly break on Honda engines and should get replaced. If you don't replace it, you will likely end up breaking the other two engine mounts with some time as they will have additional stress.
power steering pump - depends how bad the leak is. If it's a small leak, this might not be very urgent
steering tie rods - i suppose these could be worn. have them show them to you. they might be phishing here.
transmission fluid flush - don't do a flush!!!! what i'm talking about is a machine forced flush. it would be a good idea to do a transmission fluid drain and fill. There's plenty of info in other threads on this board about drain and fills.
brake fluid flush - yeah, if this has never been done, it's probably a good idea by now.
Could they just be pointing out common stuff trying to phish for extra work? Maybe. But its also fairly likely that most of these items are legit.
Everything paularsen said is dead on. One thing though - of course the dealer is phishing. Just like EVERY shop does. People should be glad about these kinds of things. Granted their prices are astronomical, and they are doing a good bit of labor stacking (par for a dealer) they are pointing out every tiny thing they can find wrong. I wouldn't say its bad, because they are things that should/need to be done eventually. Would you rather a dealer not mention a leak and then have a catastrophic failure? Don't get me wrong, they are not motivated by altruism, but by the potential for monetary gain. the same thing goes for doctors - they want to run every test under the sun because they can bill for them, not because they are exceptionally concerned.
the price for the engine mount and power steering is on par with the quote i got when i had to replace mine. The timing belt quote is ridiculous. I got a shop in Mountain View to do mine for 900 bucks parts and labor. shop around you'll find better deals than a dealership pretty much anywhere. Make sure to get power steering pump replace at the same time you do your timing belt. it'll save you money since they pretty much have to remove the timing belt to get to pump.
Last edited by AlexanderModern; 09-25-2014 at 10:18 PM.
Holy hell if you pay all that you may as well use that as a down payment on a newer TL.
Is this even factoring in labor? Or are they quoting you prices for parts?
What he should have done was give you directions to "new car sales" dept. That's ridiculous. First thing I would do is have a good independent mechanic look at it. If you really prefer a dealer then I would go to a Honda dealer and let them look at it.
I was getting the same list for my is300 after a trip to the dealer and as I looked through the list they recommend the service I just already done on the previous oil change and I requested the service. I spoke to the service manager about the matter and he was really nice about it.
Last edited by truonghthe; 09-28-2014 at 10:22 AM.
I had the Acura dealership do a transmission flush on my 2007 TL Type-S last month; the charge was $90.00. $2,028 for a timing belt is about double what it should cost. Now a “Timing Belt Package” most likely includes a timing belt, camshaft belt tensioner, camshaft belt idler, and perhaps a hydraulic timing belt actuator. However I have no idea what an engine oil “pump” leak repair is? Are they replacing the oil seal on the crank? I would ask for further clarification on that. A word of advice, I always change out my water pump every time I put in a new timing belt. Everything is already torn apart; and the pump is right there, so the cost of installing a water pump is incremental.
Having 73,000 on your timing belt is still a little early to change, would do it at the recommended 105K. I wouldn’t go too much past that though… since it’s an interference engine, meaning bad things happen if the belt breaks. As a point of reference, I changed out my first timing belt on my 1998 Accord V-6 at 140K; I changed the 2nd belt at 340K. In the attached photo the right belt has 200K on it and the left belt is new. You’ll notice the old one definitely looks worn…but frankly I was surprised it didn't look worse. (The paint marks are how I match up the new belt to the correct cogs…if you screw that up, bad things happen too.) Anyway, don’t do as I do…do as I say.
Good luck, get a second opinion and some clarification on what exactly is included in the estimate.
If youre anyway mechanically inclined you can do most of that stuff yourself. Even buy the parts cheap online too!
Thats a total rip off
+1
there's many how-to's online, save yourself the cash and do it on your own! you'll learn a lot too..one thing i wont touch is the timing belt unlessb you're a a certified mechanic.
09-24-2014, 03:14 PM
