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Old 07-10-2011, 2:06 PM   #1
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@100,000 miles, what grade/motor oil?

Just turned 100,000 mile on a 2005 TL. Been using Honda 5-20 since new, should I change the oil grade and brand? I am in So.CAL.
YES I did search and read threads for 2 days. Now I am more confused and my head is about to explode!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks in ADVANCE!!!!!!
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Old 07-10-2011, 2:59 PM   #2
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just stick with what you're putting in unless you're burning oil.
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Old 07-10-2011, 3:25 PM   #3
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Amsoil or Redline 5w-30
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Old 07-10-2011, 3:27 PM   #4
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What have you read in the past 2 days that has confused you?
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Old 07-10-2011, 3:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umakemekissu View Post
Amsoil or Redline 5w-30
i would just say a good brand of oil, such as valveoline and castrol ALSO, with the one's mentioned


but if anything i would probably say a 10w-30, but a 5w-30 would work also
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Old 07-10-2011, 4:27 PM   #6
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Go with 5w-30 and a brand of your choice or stick with what your doing.
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Old 07-10-2011, 4:36 PM   #7
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That's what I was doing. I was thinking about switching to Royal Purple from Valvoline though, Idk if it would do much better though. Valvoline was great.
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Old 07-10-2011, 4:52 PM   #8
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Most important thing now is do your timing belt service + drive belt + sparks etc...

I am on Mobile Syntec but thinking of switching to Redline. I am at 85K.
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Old 07-10-2011, 5:46 PM   #9
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DOnt know why this is even a question. Doesnt your owners manual say to use 5w20? Well there ya go use 5w20.

I use Mobile 1 Synthetic 5w20 and OEM filter in my Type S and all vehicles I have owned. Also comes factory filled in my Z06<------

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Old 07-10-2011, 9:48 PM   #10
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Use a 5w-30 in So Cal. The 5w-20 is a mandatory recommendation by CAFE. These engines used 5w-30 before CAFE stepped in. Better protection, less wear, and no measurable reduction in mpg. Redline if you want the "best". If not, use whatever. Royal Purple is one of the worst motor oils I've come across but their filters are some of the best.

I'm not sure what confused you in the search. Some members use a 40wt with no problems.
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Old 07-10-2011, 11:32 PM   #11
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5w-30 if you're burning oil, if not, stick with the usual 5w-20
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Old 07-11-2011, 6:47 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I hate cars View Post
Use a 5w-30 in So Cal. The 5w-20 is a mandatory recommendation by CAFE. These engines used 5w-30 before CAFE stepped in. Better protection, less wear, and no measurable reduction in mpg. Redline if you want the "best". If not, use whatever. Royal Purple is one of the worst motor oils I've come across but their filters are some of the best.

I'm not sure what confused you in the search. Some members use a 40wt with no problems.
Knew you couldn't stay away. Maybe the wording used was just typed incorrectly, but CAFE doesn't recommend the type or viscosity of oil to be used by the manufacturer, they only set the guidelines for the fuel mileage and as the manufacturer strives for better fuel economy, the oils weights consequently go down, less friction. Actually CAF… has been around since 1975 and must say the guidelines have worked as the MPG of the current production vehicles are fantastic compared to yesteryear. The new oils are so superior in quality that the 5-20 recommendation has no problem in combating engine wear, long lasting, along with the minimal increase in fuel mileage.

Back in '93 when the wife purchased a '93 Z24 with the 5-30 recommendation, everyone said that viscosity was way too lite, but I used only the 5-30 and the car was sold with 190,000 miles and never was any oil added between changes, ran as new.

Just an FYI for everyone, recommended viscosity for the TL was 5-30 through 2001, then 5-20 thru 2011, now 0-20 in the 2012 vehicles. Also, Honda has recommended the use of the 0-20 in the ’04-’08 TL/TLS. Your choice.
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Old 07-11-2011, 9:27 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Turbonut View Post
Knew you couldn't stay away. Maybe the wording used was just typed incorrectly, but CAFE doesn't recommend the type or viscosity of oil to be used by the manufacturer, they only set the guidelines for the fuel mileage and as the manufacturer strives for better fuel economy, the oils weights consequently go down, less friction. Actually CAF… has been around since 1975 and must say the guidelines have worked as the MPG of the current production vehicles are fantastic compared to yesteryear. The new oils are so superior in quality that the 5-20 recommendation has no problem in combating engine wear, long lasting, along with the minimal increase in fuel mileage.

Back in '93 when the wife purchased a '93 Z24 with the 5-30 recommendation, everyone said that viscosity was way too lite, but I used only the 5-30 and the car was sold with 190,000 miles and never was any oil added between changes, ran as new.

Just an FYI for everyone, recommended viscosity for the TL was 5-30 through 2001, then 5-20 thru 2011, now 0-20 in the 2012 vehicles. Also, Honda has recommended the use of the 0-20 in the ’04-’08 TL/TLS. Your choice.
Why would I stay away, I don't really hang out in this section much anymore but every once in a while I check in. I know CAFE is not a new thing and it does serve a purpose.

Honda has back spec'd the Tl for 0w-20, it was never the recommended viscosity from the factory. 0w-20 is usually a superior base oil to 5w-20 anyway, nothing wrong with that. But you usually lose precious HTHS with the 0w rating. Some of them are right on the minimum HTHS for acceptable wear. You're walking a fine line. There's no reason not to use a 5w-30. You will not be able to measure a mpg decrease and it gives you a much larger safety margin. That's just the thing with the 30wt, you don't start with an oil that has a borderline HTHS and you don't have to worry about it slipping below the minimum acceptable level with use. There are big penalties when the HTHS gets too low. I realize that lube failures are very rare and the TL will go forever on a 20wt but there's just no reason not to get that extra margin of safety. If you're going to be tracking it and running it hard, it's a no brainer.

Going for better mpg via super low viscosity oil that is designed the sheer by nature (AFE) is not the correct way of doing things. You're trading wear for mpg. There's enough info out there on HTHS vs wear that it should not be a debate.

Do a google search if you want to see the CAFE requirements. There are penalties if the manufacturer does not comply. Part of their 20wt program was requiring "20wt" on both the oil fill cap and in the manual as the sole recommended oil in the owner's manual. Toyota has gotten around that partially by recommending 5w-30 for severe service in many of their cars. Then you look at what constitutes severe service and it's practically everything.
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Old 07-11-2011, 10:20 AM   #14
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Maybe look into NOT using Mobile 1, I was going to switch until I read countless members on "Bob the oil guy" having very high wear metals using this oil.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/mobil-1-qa/

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...s.php?ubb=cfrm

Many members complained about this and switching reduced it,
I thought it safe to start running Castrol Syntec as an alternative, and Im not getting better MPG
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Old 07-11-2011, 10:59 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I hate cars View Post
Honda has back spec'd the Tl for 0w-20, it was never the recommended viscosity from the factory. 0w-20 is usually a superior base oil to 5w-20 anyway, nothing wrong with that. But you usually lose precious HTHS with the 0w rating. Some of them are right on the minimum HTHS for acceptable wear. You're walking a fine line. There's no reason not to use a 5w-30. You will not be able to measure a mpg decrease and it gives you a much larger safety margin. That's just the thing with the 30wt, you don't start with an oil that has a borderline HTHS and you don't have to worry about it slipping below the minimum acceptable level with use. There are big penalties when the HTHS gets too low. I realize that lube failures are very rare and the TL will go forever on a 20wt but there's just no reason not to get that extra margin of safety. If you're going to be tracking it and running it hard, it's a no brainer.

Going for better mpg via super low viscosity oil that is designed the sheer by nature (AFE) is not the correct way of doing things. You're trading wear for mpg. There's enough info out there on HTHS vs wear that it should not be a debate.

Do a google search if you want to see the CAFE requirements. There are penalties if the manufacturer does not comply. Part of their 20wt program was requiring "20wt" on both the oil fill cap and in the manual as the sole recommended oil in the owner's manual. Toyota has gotten around that partially by recommending 5w-30 for severe service in many of their cars. Then you look at what constitutes severe service and it's practically everything.
I guess we answered the question as no harm with the 5-20, but then the statement trading wear for mpg is certainly subjective. As I am speaking of the DD classification, the 5-20, or 0-20 would not present any problems, but certainly if a vehicle is tracked, various oil choices would be available. Heavy weight oils aren’t as common as they once were though, so let’s look at Joe Gibbs oils:

5-20 Used for all unrestricted engines
0-20 Nationwide Series
10-30 Higher viscosity of the 5-20
15-50 Again a higher viscosity of their 5-20

Realize that the oils have different additives, and need to last for only qualifying and maybe 500/600 mile races, but the move to thinner oils is the trend.

As far as I know, the CAFE is an industry wide standard of MPG and is not a standard of what oil must be used, only that the selected oil used for the vehicle MPG tests must be identified and recommended on all documentation.

Another oil thread, I guess everyone will still use the oil they feel most comfortable with, regardless of our choices.
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Old 07-11-2011, 11:59 AM   #16
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Well, if HTHS it important, then M1 and Penzoil seem pretty good. Especially given the price. It only falls about .1 below Amsoil for any given grade. All are over 3 for the 30w selections. Of course redline is much higher than the rest, but so is the price.

On top of that, avoid the castrol, their HTHS numbers are quite a bit lower than the rest. All fall below the 3 mark for everything except their 5w50 & 20w50... :/

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...syntec_usa.pdf

Personally I would go Mobil 1 0w30 if you drive hard and 0w20 if you don't. Walmart has 5qt jugs for $24.

BTW: Thinner oils is the trend because the increased flow of the thin oil at any given pressure aids the cooling and lubrication of the bearing surface.

Last edited by 94eg!; 07-11-2011 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s_vares View Post
Maybe look into NOT using Mobile 1, I was going to switch until I read countless members on "Bob the oil guy" having very high wear metals using this oil.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/mobil-1-qa/

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...s.php?ubb=cfrm

Many members complained about this and switching reduced it,
I thought it safe to start running Castrol Syntec as an alternative, and Im not getting better MPG
It's like I said, wear metals mean nothing in a UOA. You can't condemn Mobil One for a UOA. It was found that the high iron was due to it's cleaning effect and removing oxidation. Only a particle count can show wear. Redline does the same thing, it turns up terrible UOAs and has showed the absolute lowest wear during teardowns.
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Old 07-11-2011, 1:10 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Turbonut View Post
I guess we answered the question as no harm with the 5-20, but then the statement trading wear for mpg is certainly subjective. As I am speaking of the DD classification, the 5-20, or 0-20 would not present any problems, but certainly if a vehicle is tracked, various oil choices would be available. Heavy weight oils arenít as common as they once were though, so letís look at Joe Gibbs oils:

5-20 Used for all unrestricted engines
0-20 Nationwide Series
10-30 Higher viscosity of the 5-20
15-50 Again a higher viscosity of their 5-20

Realize that the oils have different additives, and need to last for only qualifying and maybe 500/600 mile races, but the move to thinner oils is the trend.

As far as I know, the CAFE is an industry wide standard of MPG and is not a standard of what oil must be used, only that the selected oil used for the vehicle MPG tests must be identified and recommended on all documentation.

Another oil thread, I guess everyone will still use the oil they feel most comfortable with, regardless of our choices.
I've seen guys use a 5w for qualifying.

There's no doubt thinner is the trend and if you can get the same protection it's a win-win. But you have to ask yourself why run a super thin oil in normal climates where the car is run for more than 5 minutes at a time with an immeasurable mpg difference.

I understand the manufacturer does this because a .5mpg difference over a million cars is significant. Unless you drive the car for super short trips all the time and live in a cold climate you will never be able to measure the mpg difference.

I'll look for the paper but threre's one out there detailing the 5w-20 qualification which includes it being printed on the fill cap and in the owner's manual along with other items. There is a penalty of sorts for manufacturers not using a 20wt.

It's interesting that the performance version of the same Honda engine still requires a 5w-30. I've checked clearances and they're all the same.

Over at Ford, most of the modulars use 5w-20 but the higher power supercharged engines use 5w-50. Same clearances also.

As for bearing cooling due to better flow, it's important but once you have adequate flow, how is more flow going to help anything? Much of the heat in a journal bearing is from the friction of the oil itself so I understand how a lighter oil can in itself generate less heat but again, bearing temps are pretty much never a problem. The only time I've had a bearing overheat was one of my engines that I personally screwed up on and had .0006" clearance on one of the rods. That was my fault, not the oil. I use a very thick oil in the GN because it make 620lbs of torque which is over 700lbs at the crank at a low 2,800rpm and redline is 6,000rpm. In the TL I would not recommend this because the higher revving engines need better flow and as rpm increases, the hydrodynamic wedge in the journal bearings gets stronger. Still though, I wouldn't run anything but a 30wt in it. It's application specific, I think we both agree on that.

I understand that additives can help a light oil achieve better wear results but most of those work at the boundary lube area. I would rather keep the hydrodynamic wedge there so nothing is physically touching, and not rely on boundary lubrication. At some point, things are going to rub and that's why I like the high ZDDP and moly levels of my oil even if it's too much to get the correct API designation.

HTHS IMO is about the most important spec. There was a great study by GM of the effect of HTHS on Buick's NA 3.8L engine. Rod and main bearings were weighed before assembly. Both engines were put on the dyno and run on the exact same cycle to simulate driving for many hours. The only variable being the HTHS. One had the minimum acceptable HTHS, one had a high HTHS. The results were surprising. I forget the actual numbers but the one with the higher HTHS had something like 1/5 the wear. Whether that's the difference in 200,000 miles vs 1,000,000 miles I don't know but reducing wear by that much is never a bad thing.

Besides all of the crap I wrote above, if there's nothing else people believe, I hope it's that UOAs are worthless for determining wear via wear metals. People condemn great oils due to high wear metal results when in fact the high wear metals are due to less wear.....which I don't have the time to explain now but I've explained it on here before.
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Old 07-11-2011, 11:34 PM   #19
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valvoline maxlife synthetic, castrol gtx high mileage or castrol edge. 5w-30 grade. stay away from scamoil.
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