redrum4me

I agree RedLine is the best. I had the GM stuff in for ten thousand miles and just switched to RL for comparison sake. RL just feels smoother, with no hesitation going into third. Warm or cold.

Tripnbeats

Hey guys I just did my change on friday..... there was a problem and my axel was broken to shit so at the same time that I had the car on the lift I banged out the fluid too; but now when I start the car I hear a knock like a motor mount or tranny mount hits hard and it doesnt happen again until I either hit reverse at high RPM or start the car again. Does anyone know what this could be ??? Its buggin me so much and Im bringin the car to junk-ura so they can look at it. but if i can diagnose n fix it myself y bother with their crap.

Tripnbeats

but just to throw a lil bit of my 2 cents in, the freakin GM Synchromesh is insane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the car shifts like it is new and even better than when it was new!!!!

SandieD

Tripnbeats,
The dealer consented to put in Honda MT which has been very good but now that the weather is cooler, I notice that 3rd gear has that notchy feeling again, although it does not pop of of 3rd at least.
Is this because this gear oil is thicker than the stuff they had in it originally?
Sandie

zootjeff

I just placed an order through www.paceperformance.com

12377916 -GM SyncroMesh Manual Transmission Fluid- Friction Modified


I ordered 3 quarts at 9.59 each plus 9.95 UPS shipping. Seems like a good deal. None of the cheapo car parts dealers had the stuff. I did pickup an oil pump with the little tube and I plan to do it all from under the car. Has anyone done it this way yet?

SouthernBoy

No. And you certainly don't need any sort of oil pump to change your manual transmission fluid. It is the easiest and least messy one I've ever done (try doing a 2002+ Altima SE V6 manual).

In a nutshell..

o Drive the car for about 2 miles to stir up and somewhat warm up the old fluid.

o Drive your car up onto some ramps, preferrably on a driveway with a downward slope (car facing downward).

o Remove the plastic protective shield under the transaxle.

o Put a floor jack under the rear center jack point and raise the car enough to where it is level (yes, use a carpenter's level under the the transmission, making sure that you have picked a spot where the level will be perfectly perpendicular to the car).

o Separate the top of the air filter housing from the bottom and move it out of the way (you do not need to remove this from the ribbed throttle body coupling).

o Locate the fill hole for the transmission (right under the ribbed coupling and takes a 3/8" male ratchet extension). Remove this bolt and be most careful not to drop it. If this is your first time removing this bolt, it will take some muscle.

o Remove the transmission's drain plug and the sight plug and let the old fluid drain into an oil drain pan.

o Replace the drain plug using a new washer. Torque to spec.

o Using a funnel in the fill hole, refill the transmission with about 2.3 quarts of fluid (watch the sight plug and when fluid starts to run out of it.. you've filled the tranny).

o Replace the sight plug and the fill plug using new washers. Torque both to spec.

o Re-install everything else and you're done.


This should not take more than 1 1/2 hours IF you are really taking your time and going slow. Believe me, it is a simple and painless job.

zootjeff

I just looked at my fill plug and I'd need a long tube funnel and a 10" 3/8s extension if I don't remove more than just the filter. I don't have either of these.. Thats why I wanted to try filling it through the sight plug hole. I have a 5 dollar oil pump that fits on the quart bottles. My question was has anyone acutually tried it this way? Is it really a pain to pump in the oil through the sight plug?

SouthernBoy

I would think it would not be a pain at all, really. Go for it and let us know what you think.

BTW.. there is no filter.

zootjeff

I meant the air filter housing that you listed. If I don't remove/move the air filter housing

SouthernBoy

Oh.. Ok. Sorry there.

Let us know what you do and how it comes out.

SandieD

My dealer changes the gear oil for me but I have a question. Do you notice that the thicker gear oil doesn't work as well now that it is colder? I have Honda MTF since dealer couldn't switch factory oil for GM and the Honda MTF worked well all summer. Does the GM stuff work as well in the cold as it did in warm weather? If so, I might have someone other than the dealer put that in (on the sly).
Thanks,
Sandie

SouthernBoy

I never had any of the problems with my '04 manual TL that some others have experienced with their manuals.. even with the factory tranny fill. However, in the spring of last year, I did drain the factory fill and refill with the GM Synchromesh Friction Modified fluid based upon the excellent reports and high recommendations it was getting. My intent was really just to drain the factory fill to get the small metal particles out of the case.

As for winter operation, it has been flawless. No complaints in any of the seven gears. I will do another drain and fill next spring since I like to do this every two years.

Pat04TL

My 2 cents on DIY MTF changes.

Just got through changing the MTF for the second time. Relatively easy, but you do have to have the right tools. If you're doing this job yourself, get a 12" extension for a 3/8" drive socket wrench. That plus the standard 3-5" extension that comes with every socket set will reach the fill plug. I did have to move the air filter housing to the right to get a straight up-and-down angle on the fill plug with the extensions. No biggie. I learned after the first time to have a new air filter ready (since I had to open up the housing anyway). Also, two small flathead screwdrivers on each side of those plastic push pins will pop the center up enough to get ahold of it and pull it out without breaking it. Do get the drain and fill plug crush washers. They're cheap. To get fresh MTF in, I took a scrap piece of small diameter RV drinking water hose and pushed it over a standard tranny fluid funnel. Hose and funnel fit perfectly and the fill plug hole is plenty large enough to allow for such contraptions. 2.3 quarts later I'm done. Then, another tool I needed was an extra long straight needle-nose pliers. Used that to place the new washer over the fill plug hole. Just wanted to add my 2 cents FWIW...

SouthernBoy

Good add-on posting for those who are fence sitters about doing this job. I would add to your recommendations, the following;

o Always use a torque wrench.
o Make sure the car is level when you do the change.
o You do not need to remove the sight plug (Acura refers to it as the "check" plug) for this job.
o Take your time.. should not take over an hour anyway.
o Always use a torque wrench.


Did I mention to use a torque wrench (heh, heh). This is really a simple job that is not messy at all. I didn't do mine again last year like I had planned to, so this spring is a must.

Pat04TL

Good call on the torque wrench. Over-torqueing aluminum parts equals bad ju-ju. Hmmm, I wonder how many of the smaller time-is-money auto shops use a torque wrench or even fresh washers. Probably a good thing to ask for those folks who are going to have someone else (other than an Acura dealer) do the job. On leveling, I used good quality (i.e. relatively gentle-angle) ramps on a sloped driveway so that was a breeze. (Also chocked the rear wheel.) Lastly, looking at my post, I made it sound like I moved the entire air filter housing (just like the pictures show at the beginning of the thread). No need. Just moved the top portion over. That's also why I needed the extra-long needle nose pliers for the new fill plug washer. Remove the entire housing and it looks like that wouldn't be an issue. Many ways to get the job done. Bottom line is this a great DIY job for those looking to step up from doing just oil and filter changes...

HEK

so at 12,152 miles I did the change....I'm about to hit 36k...am I due??..

HEK

Since I had no replies I changed the tranny fluid at 35,968 miles with Penzzoil Synchromesh at 3.50 a QT....

SouthernBoy

I just bought 3 quarts of GMSFM fluid this morning and two aluminum washers for a drain and fill perhaps tomorrow. Been over three years since the last one.

SouthernBoy

Ok, just some points and observations for those who have asked questions about changing your manual tranny fluid, expected life of the GMSFM stuff, what needs to be removed, etc.

I bought my '04 manual TL on July 17, 2004, about two weeks after it was built and two days after it had arrived in the dealer's inventory. I did my first manual drain and fill on August 7, '05 at 15528 miles, refilling with the GMSFM 12377916 fluid. I noted that there was quite a bit of tiny gold flecks floating around in the factory fill. This was material which was removed from the surface areas of the synchronizers during the breaking in process. This is normal but you do want to get it out of your tranny sooner than I did. I suggest doing the initial drain and fill at around 6000 miles then another one 12000 miles (or one year) later to really get a good drain of this debris.

Anyway, I did my second drain and fill this morning, again with the GMSFM fluid. I noted, and was very pleased, that the color and clarity of the fluid draining from the case was a golden honey color and very clean in appearance. Once it had all drained out, I inspected the drained fluid and did not see any golden flecks floating in there. This is a good sign that the synchros have been properly broken in and their mating surfaces are well "honed??". Of course, this assumes that the shifting action is also as expected.,. which it most definitely is.

As for doing the work, I first wrote three years ago that this is the cleanest and easiest manual drain and fill I have ever done on any manual vehicle I've owned.. and this is true. I spent about an hour and 45 minutes, most of which was doing the setup and "tear down" of things in preparation for and cleanup after the job. The actual drain and fill itself takes less than 30 minutes. But you have to get the transmission case level (that is why you use a carpenter's level) before you do the drain. And I take my time and do it right so that I am not back tracking myself and causing any problems.

Pointers.
o Make sure you use a torque wrench.
o Replace the old aluminum washers with new ones.
o You do not need to remove the battery or even the air filter housing though moving the upper part of the housing out of the way helps a good deal.
o You do not need to remove the check plug if you drain when level and refill with the recommended amount of fluid (2.3 US quarts - I used 2 quarts and slightly over 8 ounces).
o As you start filling from the third bottle, use a flashlight and watch for over fill at the fill hole. If the tranny is level and you use the correct amount for the fill, you should not see an overfill condition.
o Once more, use a torque wrench.

And again, watch your fluid as it drains for color and appearance, then inspect the old stuff in your drain pan. This really is a simple job and it is virtually mess-free. Take your time, think it through, and you'll save money, know that it was done right, and have what you want.

Oh,m BTW, my mileage at today's change was 56299 miles which means that the last GMSFM fluid change was in there for 40771 miles.

Vietnastee

iTrader: (8)

Is it okay to not warm up the tranny before you change the fluid? Why do you need to warm it up anyways? Thanks.

eluzion

It will just drain easier and maybe just slightly more since it's a bit thinner when warm. Personally, I think you're fine either way.

I'm changing mine this weekend with Honda MTF even though the car shifts like butter. Not sure if the previous owner ever had it changed yet (74k miles already).

alvon

The manual transmission fluid is now listed as 2.6 qt capacity instead of 2.3 qt in my manual !! See the link here to Honda online manual:
https://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/...404SRVINFO.pdf

Should I put in 2.6 qt next time?

eluzion

You should put in however much is needed until it reaches the check hole (the one above the drain plug).

alvon

I did not used the check hole last time, knowing that I needed to put in 2.3 qt. Maybe next time, I will.

SouthernBoy

I see you have an '04 manual TL, same year as mine. Page 256 of my Owner's Manual calls for 2.3 quarts (the wording is unusual). The 2004 Service Manual is a little more clear. It calls for 2.3 quarts for a change and 2.6 quarts for an overhaul (the Owner's Manual uses the word "complete").

SouthernBoy

You really do not need to remove the check (sight) plug at all as long as your car is level and you are careful about how much fluid you are pouring into your transmission. The main reason I am not of a mind to remove the check plug is this.

Several members on this sight have wrenched the head of the bolt off, leaving the threaded shaft still in the check plug opening. Because the torque spec is so low (8.7 lb/ft) for the check plug bolt, I am not of a mind to mess with it. If my torque wrench is off a little or if the aluminum washer hits a raised piece of casting, the head could be severed (sounds bad, eh?).

alvon

Good point, if I can avoid dealing with the check hole, I will. My reason for not using the check hole last time was that I did not need to check for a perfect level, and I know how much to put back in.

I changed to GMSFM at ~15K and again at ~30K miles. My next change will probably be ~55K (next summer).

westas2

Anyone had success using the oil pump method in the check hole and not even messing with the top part of the engine?

mrempp

I imagine the oil pump method would work fine, but when i did it i just filled it using the top plug. I have very little mechanical skill, and i had no problem getting to the plug. Just remove the battery, and then the airbox. I was worried about stripping the little bolt on the check hole so i didn't mess with it. It's supposed to be tightened to somewhere around 12 foot pounds, and my giant torque wrench isn't terribly accurate at that low of torque.

SouthernBoy

You do not need to remove the battery or the air filter housing. This is totally unnecessary. All you need to do is separate the upper part of the air filter housing, as though you were replacing the filter, then move it out of the way to gain access to the filler plug.

westas2

Does Honda have a fluid comparable to the Acura Precision ATF-Z1? I have a Honda dealer around the corner but nearest Acura dealer is pretty far away.

6MTrules

I just did my second change a few weeks ago, and I figured out that a 3/8" universal joint adapter allows you to not have to undo anything from the top. Put the square end of the universal joint in the plug, add your 2ft extension, and then your breaker bar, and you're all set. There is plenty of room to maneuver, and was not difficult to keep aligned, while waiting for the "pop". I also have a real skinny funnel, which can also fit without disconnecting anything.

SouthernBoy

Yep, you got it. Basically the same thing I do.

Waltah

iTrader: (3)

thanks for the write up, dropped by my local chevy dealer and picke dup 3 quarts of the snake oil. my type-s has 40k on it so it was about due.

feels fantastic so far and will only get better as i get some miles on the fluid. only drove about 4 miles so far.

Acutron

So is there a time frame when doing this change is acceptable? I just picked up an 06 with 59k on it. Am I too late?

RJNN TL

I own a pit in my garage that is very level. It's flat obviously, so do I NEED ramps if I can simply go right under the car regardless? Or must I use ramps to get it at a certain angle. And where would you even put the leveler to measure it. And when you mean check hole, thats the one above the lower plug under the car? So 3 total in terms of bolts to take out. And the only reason I'd need that filler tube thing is so it makes it easier. I have a long funnel that could fit onto the top near the intake. Does it sound like I get it? LOL.

AckTL05

iTrader: (18)

Put in 2 and 1/4 I believe. The level mark should be around 600ML on the side. It doesn't have to be "EXACT" but a few ml's more then "required" won't hurt it at all. The fill is right at the level of the bottom of the battery and it needs to be removed to get full access. 6MT DONT NEED TO DO THE 3X3.

RJNN TL

So this fluid change is as easy as. Take the top fill plug out with a toque wrench. Take the bottom 2 plugs out. And fill until overflows from the overflow hole? It's that simple!? haha.. Then refill from the top? wow.

SouthernBoy

No, don't use a torque wrench to remove the fill plug if it has never been removed. You could break your torque wrench. Most likely you will need a breaker bar or at least an extension for you ratchet. It is on really tight from the factory. Use the torque wrench when you re-install it. Also, there is only one bottom plug on our transmissions. There is a check, or sight, plug higher up on the case. Whether or not you remove that is optional. Just make sure that if you do remove it, definitely use a torque wrench to put it back in as it only takes 8.7 ft/lbs.

If you remove the check plug, you fill until fluid starts to run out of that hole. Then you re-install that plug plus the fill plug and clean up. If you do not remove the check plug, you fill with 2 quarts 10 ounces of the fluid and make sure the case is level.

It really is a simple and non-messy job.

jimmyl

I did my fluid change to the GM Syncromesh Friction Modified over two weeks ago.
Before, it would grind or pop out of 3rd gear at least once a day, but usually quite a bit more than that.
In the over two weeks since, it hasn't done it a single time, and you can actually feel the difference in the shifter, in how it moves between gears.
It is amazing and instant!!!
And easy......