neuronbob

Way ahead of you, battery was first consideration. It's still good, which is surprising for a car that's been outside and started in extreme conditions for some time.

TampaRLX-SH

I was not referring to the 12V battery. I was referring to poor connections with the IPU and PDU and between them. If any of those power connections have been compromised, perhaps they would cause issues similar to when the 12V connections are loose or corroded?

neuronbob

I see now. To my knowledge, all systems were tested and none found wanting. I asked about the hybrid battery as well. Thoroughly stumped by this problem. Will let all know if something turns up.

pgeorg

I still think it is a simple sensor causing this, but this car has so many sensors so.....
I say, as soon as you can get out of the lease, you should do so.....

hondamore

FWIW, my battery tested "OK" the day before it died on me and caused the disco light show of warning lights. Not saying that is the problem with your car, neuronbob, just saying that the test they do on batteries seems to lack precision.

getakey

I agree that the typical battery test is not accurate, but do you think a problem with the 12volt system puts the car in limp mode? That would be a dangerous design.

neuronbob

I agree with pgeorg. I'd like to know which sensor(s) the SH-AWD and LDW systems have in common, and replace that (those). I could use a service manual.

As far as early lease end, the eariest that can be done is in 4 1/2 months, and that's if if I lease another Acura. Otherwise, it's 7 1/2 more months.

pgeorg

I will take a look, maybe i will get lucky.

I understand......thats a long time to be driving a car that does what yours does at any given moment

I hope it happens very soon, and it gets recorder.

hondamore

With a safety related issue, it would be worth making a call to Acura Corporate HQ to see if they would be flexible regarding any "rules" regarding early lease termination and getting you into a new Sport Hybrid (if that is the route you'd like to take). It would even be worthwhile mentioning to them that you are a well-respected moderator on an Acura-enthusiast website.

My only experience with Acura Canada HQ went remarkably well and resulted in them paying for service/repair work on my wife's 8 year old MDX well past her warranty's expiration. Being a loyal Honda/Acura buyer served me well in that discussion and undoubtedly played a part in their generous resolution to my problem.

Just my two cents.

TacoBello

Just a few thoughts, Bob:

1. How hard were you pushing the car through the corner when the car acted funny? On a scale of 1-10, with 10 being screeching tires and drifting sideways, where would you rate yourself when it happened?

2. The corners that the issues did occur in... Do you normally take those corners? If so, have you tried replicating the problem in those same corners, at the same speeds? What about even faster (if you can deem it safe enough to do so)?

3. Do you still have the diagnostic monitoring/recording device, from the dealer, still in your car? If not, Is there a chance you can get it back, if they removed it? It seems it would just be a matter of time before this happens again and it gets recorded.

Im quite surprised, intrigued and confused by this, all at the same time. I hope you figure it out prior to your lease ending. At least it'll give other members something to watch out for, if it ever happens to them. Best of luck!!

neuronbob

Probably my next step is to move up to ACS. Again, I have no ammo other than the pictures I took of these errors.

Yup, I'm hoping to figure this out. Again, the only clues I have are the errors. It has to be a sensor associated with both the SH-AWD and LDW systems.

George Knighton

When I first read your post, I believe my brain went where his went.

(Which is horrifying in itself, but I'll visit the neurologist on Monday.)

My first thought was to wonder whether it was an intervention for safety's sake, and it would be reasonable for warning lights to go off, and for you to feel sudden understeer if the car went into Last Resort.

But it wasn't clear enough to me to suggest that, and your subjective opinion that you were only at 6/10 kind of rules that out.

neuronbob

Thankfully, I have sense enough not to drive 8-9/10 on public roads. I can't even do 10/10 on a track well given I'm still a rank amateur, though 8-9/10 on a track I can do.

George Knighton

10/10 :

You can feel your LSD (or dual rear electrics) hunting for traction left/right, and you're actively moving the steering wheel back and forth, finding the traction.

:-)

neuronbob

Lost the ability to accelerate, again, without errors, three times during my highway drive from church today, each time in turns. When it happens, it's like what happens when the transmission is "taking a think".....only this lasts 3-5 seconds rather than less than a second. Another way to imagine it is to imagine what happens when the ACC detects a car too close to you....it won't accelerate at all. This is happenng without a car in front of it. No errors at all. This sucks! At this point, it's no use taking it back to the dealer as there's not much they can do without objective evidence for an error.

Really sapping my enjoyment of the car....

pgeorg

That sucks, especially if you had the family in the car also

Do you think it was able to take a snapshot this time?

neuronbob

No error, no snapshot, is what I was told.

pgeorg

I apologize if this has been asked before, do the rpm's stay steady, drop, or go up at that particular moment?

Also do you think if you have the automatic module connected to the OBD-II with the app on the phone running, would help you decipher whats happening exactly?

The app does show you a wealth of information of how the car is working.......

neuronbob

Engine speed is steady. No current OBD-II dongle to read engine info.

Limelight

Not what I wanted to read the day before test driving a SH. There is an awful lot of tech in this car (more than most) so I suppose these kinds of issues can arise. Hopefully they don't start to surface more frequently as the cars have been on the road longer. It's such a small sample size to really know.

Hopefully it can be diagnosed and fixed soon Bob!

pgeorg

I can send you mine to test.....

neuronbob

It's just my car, not a widespread issue. Don't fear your test drive, LOL. I still recommend the car. The dealer, and Acura, are stumped, though. Remember, mine is a very, very, very early SH build from 2014, which sat outside the factory in Saitama for 8-9 months before finally being shipped to the U.S.. My experience is not typical for a SH owner. My car has a bit over 21k miles, so it's occurring relatively early in the life of the car.

Remind me which you recommend. Thanks!

pgeorg

Automatic Pro

https://www.automatic.com/pro/

DashCommand app

DashCommand - Palmer Performance Engineering, Inc.

TacoBello

Bob, how much fuel was in your gas tank? I'm pulling straws here, but I do know some cars suffer in the corners when there is low gas. For example, the 370z can suffer major fuel starvation through the corners if the tank is only 1/3 full, simply due to the shape of the gas tank and where the fuel pump is located. Gas swishes over to the other side of the tank, leaving the fuel pump to starve for a few seconds and totally cuts out power. No CELs get thrown either.

Again, just pulling straws. I'm as stumped as everyone else here is.

TampaRLX-SH

Is ACC & CMBS on? Perhaps the radar is sending false signals. If not, I agree with Taco, something is awry with fuel delivery. Try changing the throttle pedal resistance setting. Perhaps the electronic throttle has an issue. All in all, it sounds electronic or software related.

pgeorg

If it had something to do with fuel delivery, wouldn't the engine speed decrease or at least be erratic?
Bob mentioned engine speed was steady.....

TacoBello

Hmmm... True.

neuronbob

1/2 tank. This behavior is new in he last three months/couple thousand miles. The dealer folks also considered fuel delivery but nothing was amiss there. It's almost certainly an intermittent electrical gremlin of some sort.

ACC/CMBS were not on at the time.

and before you ask, I don't use my left foot to brake, and the RLX's brake and accelerator pedals are at such different heights that you can't accidentally hit the brake.

fsmith

Bob - I think you have a case here to get Acura to do something for you. Like take the car and give you a great deal on a 2017 SH. The fact that your dealer cannot duplicate the problem does not mean it doesn't exist! It's a potential safety issue and I wouldn't give up.

TacoBello

Well... without proof it's a difficult argument to make. Otherwise Acura (or any other manufacturer) would be handing cars out at a loss all the time.

By the end of the day, if they can't replicate the issue, it's not an issue to them. I (and I'm sure many others) believe Bob is an honest guy, but Acura is in the business of making money and without any evidence to show there is a major issue with their product, they have little reason to react.

neuronbob

....and TacoBello hits the nail on the head. For all I know, the dealership staff could be calling me "Cuckoo" right now. No evidence other than what I'm saying, and the two errors at the beginning of the thread that started this off. Problem is that I've only got seven more payments on the lease.....a not very cheap monthly outlay, for putting up with this problem.

getakey

think of the guy that gets your car next
Acura should pull it out of circulation for study

TampaRLX-SH

Where I was leading was not necessarily a reduction in fuel delivery. Instead I was thinking that even though the throttle pedal was depressed, the electronics were not getting that message to the fuel pump. Having a resistance throttle pedal adds new electronic variables to fuel delivery. But the complexity of this car's systems does make it daunting.

And I agree that a discussion with Acura corp may offer possibilities. It may be wiser for them to offer an avenue out of the lease (and into a new one!) without the word of this issue getting to NHTSA. And from my discussions with Acura leadership and engineers (during the process of getting my sweaty palms on my SH) - I would think they would be VERY interested in investigating this issue beyond the typical dealership diagnostic capabilities. The injection of compromised safety (even if implied) should add motivation to your situation.

I remember when I got my first experience with the SH in March of 2014. The rep commented that those vehicles touring the country were to be torn down and examined. He stated Honda was very interested in performing 'autopsies' on them. I even believe they were to be shipped back to Japan. Since your SH is a very early build, Bob - they might want to take opportunity to dig deeper than your dealer's attempt has permitted.

pgeorg

I agree with Tampa. Honda did take back my car, and they did say they were going to keep it for the reasons Tampa mentioned.

neuronbob

The first thought matches mine exactly. The second is a good idea. At this point, I'd be happy to switch out to another SH. I'm actually quite happy with the car, but am a bit concerned about an apparently unsolvable problem.

Ah, the bleeding edge....sometimes you get cut. I only hope the guys driving NSX 2.0 appreciate our beta test "effort".

neuronbob

Happened again today. I drove the car on purpose so I could describe the behavior better if it happened.

Revs definitely steady. No response to light or intermediate pressure on accelerator....I mean, nothing. Brake worked fine.
Seemed yesterday like the transmission "taking an extra long think"....so I floored the accelerator (this was on the freeway). Still nothing...then after about 4-5 seconds, the expected big downshift.

So definitely not fuel.

Have called the dealer to report.

pgeorg

At least it seems to be happening more frequently, so maybe they can experience it.....

Have you tried pressing the "Sport" button while it is happening to see if that changes anything immediately?

Thank you for the update Bob!

TacoBello

Hmmm... I'm starting to think there is something happening with only the transmission. I'm not sure if it's programming related, or mechanical related, or both. Different results (some with warning lights and some with out), makes me wonder if the transmission as a whole is somehow failing.

The fact that it is happening more frequently makes me wonder if the transmission is on its way out. I have little to base any of this on, save for the very delayed shifts you mentioned, as if the computer was "feeling" something was wrong or out of spec and was reluctant to act based on your foot commands.

Simply for educational purposes, would you be inclined to drive your RLX more than normal now, to see if you can ultimately "kill" it? I'd avoid any out of town trips just in case the worst case scenario happens, but this might not only help current owners, but Honda as well.

pgeorg

^^
I see what you are trying to say, but if it was the transmission failing would the RPMs change or at least be erratic (sorry just repeating what I said earlier).......
I see it as no communication between the gas pedal, and the rest of the car. Its like Bob just kept driving at a steady speed, without trying to accelerate.

I am just grasping at straws here, so you could be completely right!

TacoBello

That's why I wonder if it is the programming logic that is partially at fault. As if the computer doesn't know what to do next. But it really doesn't make sense- if everything was otherwise healthy with the car, why would the program logic suddenly change? That's the only reason I'm wondering if it's both mechanical (which could've caused the dash errors to come on) and otherwise electrical.

Or maybe a loose electrical connection somewhere, related to the transmission? Going through a corner causes a connection to just slightly separate? Seems doubtful though.

As fantastic as new cars are with all of the technology they pack, it's kind of a double edged sword as well. Cars are getting beyond advanced for just a hobby wrencher to diagnose and repair. Last I read though, auto makers actually prefer that- many don't want people working on their own cars anymore.

Electrical gremlins are the worst too, because they can be so difficult to diagnose. It seem we are all grasping at straws here, to say the least. What would be even worse if there is actually nothing wrong with the transmission whatsoever, but another part that is just causing the transmission to show symptoms. Either way, I'm just tossing random ideas out, hoping eventually one of them comes close to identifying what is going on. For all I know, I am completely out to lunch with the transmission speculation.