neuronbob

I had a sudden loss of power and maneuverability a few days ago. In the process, I received these two errors. I was in a turn when it happened and I suddenly noted more understeer than usual, probably from the loss of the AWD system. I don't usually take pics while driving, but it was the only opportunity I had to capture these errors. They alternated places on the MID.

I pulled over just after these pictures were taken, and power-cycled the car (shut off, opened door, closed door, restarted car). I haven't had a problem since and no codes are stored in the system, as far as I can tell with my ScanGuage II.

Anyone else?

George Knighton

No. You'd have definitely heard from me if I'd had a problem like that!!

Let us know what you do about it, what the dealer says about it.

pgeorg

Never happened to me either.

Usually if it goes away by restarting, it will most likely be a sensor or a relay glitch.

I doubt they would find anything if you took it to the dealer, but you never know.....

victorber

Isn't there a diagnostic file onboard to store these types failures, for situations like this?
During summer of 2014 I had my dash light up like a Xmas Tree, announcing a problem with Steering, Braking but I never had a loss of control.
Problem was caused by an Oxygen Sensor failure, who would have guessed!!

neuronbob

It happened again about a half hour ago. This time, I lost power in a dangerous spot--as I was accelerating into the freeway, in a curve, with cars behind me. Once stopped, if I tried moving, I couldn't get out of first gear. Before this, the transmission had been behaving oddly, with hard shifts. Once I rebooted the car, all was normal again. I'm having the car towed (if it can't be driven) to the dealer to have it looked at tomorrow.

pgeorg

^^
My first SH would shut completely off, for no apparent reason. It did it on the highway, and also on local roads. As you, a couple of times it was at the worse possible time (extremely dangerous). Mine would nor start up again for a few min......
From what I understand, yours just looses power and does not shut off completely......most likely a different issue.

It sounds like it could be the dual clutch, or some kind of sensor......

If your service department would like to contact mine, I would be happy to PM you the contact info.

neuronbob

My bet is on some kind of sensor. This happens specifically in the turns, so my first WAG is that it's a rear wheel speed sensor. However, it's happened at freeway speed twice, so I'm not taking any chances. I won't be driving it regularly until this is sorted out.

I'll give the service techs your story too, pgeorg and if they need help, I'll reach out to you. Thanks!

fsmith

This is not a good thing. One car was an anomaly. Two is perhaps 10% of the Hybrids in the forum. Please keep us informed, Bob.

pgeorg

fsmith, I believe the problem of my car was something totally different than Bob's. When it happened to my SH, it was a complete shutdown......

neuronbob

Correct. My car went into a limp mode, but didn't shut down completely. I could reset the limp mode by shutting down the car, then opening and closing the door.

George Knighton

I've been keeping an eye on this for developments, but I'm curious.

The Acura dealer has the car right now, is that right? Do they have any ideas yet?

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Wow...I'd like to hear the outcome here too.

neuronbob

Second day at the dealer, no word from them yet.

I'm "slumming it" in the NSX and CTS-V wagon this week, so don't feel too bad for me. They did give me a nice new RDX loaner, though.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

which you're choosing not to drive
Wagon love, baby!

fsmith

I understand the two symptoms are different, pgeorg. I just meant that these are the first two possibly serious problems with the admittedly complex computer-controlled drivetrain in these cars. I don't remember reading about anything like this before, and I think we have all been totally impressed with how rock-solid the car's engineering has been. Now we see that 100% is never going to be achieved. A sudden and unexpected loss of power and maneuverability (the technical term for which is now "limp mode" thanks to Bob), while perhaps not as dangerous as a total shutdown, is still plenty scary.

pgeorg

Got it, and I apologize for misunderstanding you fsmith! And lets not forget George's problem.......Unfortunately as we all know so well, every machine will have some flaws here and there.

I have 14,000 miles on my SH, and it is turning one year old soon. Unlike my first SH, this one has been rock solid.....no matter what the conditions are - rain, sun, snow, freezing, super hot, high speed, standstill traffic - it has performed flawlessly. The only think I wish for is for a "Normal" mode that is in-between Eco and Sport.........

neuronbob

I just heard from the dealer. They are actively trying to replicate the circumstances that triggered the errors and haven't triggered it yet. Maybe I drive harder than they do, LOL! I mean, . They've also involved Acura via the Techline. I appreciate all their efforts.

fsmith

No need to apologize, pgeorg. Certainly no offense taken. And I should include George's problem. My SH just turned two, and it has also been as rock-solid as any car I have ever owned, in all conditions (except, of course, for the glitchy NAV system). Maybe three problem cases isn't so bad with all the new technology (unless, of course, it happens to you!).

fsmith

Every story we have heard on this forum about serious problems has included a first-class Acura dealer going all out to get it resolved. Yeah, team!

pgeorg

The Master mechanic drove my first SH home everyday for a week, with the HDS connected. Acura Techline needed a snapshot in case the problem happened again.
Wouldn't you know, the car did it when the HDS was NOT connected. At least they were able to replicate the problem once, and since they deemed it unsafe they never allowed me to drive it again......

I hope you have the same luck as me....

neuronbob

I'm over 2/3 of the way done with my lease, so I don't see Acura replacing my car if they deem it unsafe. Maybe they'll give me a super-duper deal on a NSX 2.0?

In any case, I'm not bothered with the time they are taking. Electrical gremlins take time to find. Thankfully, I've got other cars to drive.

pgeorg

Would you sell the NSX 1.0, if that happened, Bob?

neuronbob

In the unlikely event the NSX 2.0 happens for me (can afford, but whether it's a sound financial decision is another question altogether) I'd sell my 1999. The good news is that even with 8k miles driven in the last year since purchase, I can probably sell for higher than purchase price.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

it's definitely not a sound financial decision and 1.0 is a classic!
I'd rather see you buy another S2000 cash for top down action.

George Knighton

The production after configuration is taking a long time. But since you *can* configure one, the experience will be a little better than what it was with the KC2.

With the KC2, it was like, "Surprise! We got one! It's white."

George Knighton

I dunno. Insurance isn't bad for a $125K car, and you will be spending less on fuel than you might be thinking.

;-)

neuronbob

The dealer has had my car for a week and they could not replicate the error. Not their fault, electrical gremlins are tough to find. I take the car back in the morning. They say they attached a diagnostic computer to my car to capture the circumstances around the error, should it happen again. Glad they are still working on it even if I'm taking the car back.

flagship

Glad they are helping.
This does sound really concerning.
Shame you have to deal with it and...good attitude.
I go back to the question if car experience is better or not than the old rock solid hondas and Acuras when things seemed simple and better.
Some examples: More trunk space, more reliable, still good gas mileage, tires and rims less likely to have damage issues and no suspension defect issues on new cars. Navi not lagging. Air conditioners that did not become moldy. Are we innovating to better experiences or not? Smartphones are a game changer but can be integrated to most cars i.e. Google maps. Back then good resale vs today Poor resale.
Defective Airbags that may injure you may be one of the counters?
Thoughts?
When the dealer calls the car a dud it is really concerning.
Still looking forward to what Acura comes out with next for top of the line model. How long do we have to wait?

George Knighton

I think you're right to talk about this and make people think about it.

Looking at overall sales figures, I have to wonder if it is time to consolidate the various Honda and Acura lines. I do not see how it is logical to keep Acura alive under these circumstances.

But we are on the cusp of the Acura line taking advantage of changes to some current models, so maybe we'll wait and see. The money is coming from the MDX and RDX. The TLX doesn't totally suck but it didn't prove to be anything near as popular as people hoped, and technology like rear wheel steering doesn't seem to appear to people who might be looking at Accord and Camry.

Faced with the marketing failure of P-AWS and SH-AWD, will more Hybrid and Sport Hybrid designs make a difference? I don't know. We all love the KC2 chiefly for the power train, but when it comes to the normal electronics of the vehicle, it occurs to many of us that Lexus does it more reliably and with a less confusing interface.

I am not a complete pessimist. I think they still have a couple of years to sort this.

But they'd better be serious about design, innovation, quality and reliability.

Moving from my UA9 to my KC2, I saw a decline in quality and reliability.

It should have been the other way around.

neuronbob

Good points from both of you. My bet is that Honda executives are pondering what to do, as well. Acura's not a total failure, just its sedans. We are merely the weirdos who appreciate advances in technology such are offered in the KC2's drivetrain, or in the case of PAWS owners, a huge back seat, a huge trunk, and the slightly more responsive handling coming from PAWS. I'm still pondering what to do at lease end in a few months. I may lease an end-year 2017 KC2 at a bargain price at that time. Again, I'm a weirdo who likes unique cars, and I do like this one, despite my minor kvetching about fuel economy. (FE vs power.....I've decided to take the power, all day long.)

In any case, I'm ripping and roaring along the Cleveland highways, causing terror to those slower drivers in front of me, again, in my Legend. If the problem turns up again, I'm told to run it back to the dealer for analysis.

George Knighton

Oh, they are. :-) The more financials you have, the more worried you are.

They could carry on for years, just like this, before it became critical. But it isn't adding up.

George Knighton

Advertising in the 2009-2014 period, that was just awful and did not contribute much at all.

The sponsorship of Comedians in Cars did not help at all, and was kind of dumb.

And remember that awful series of commercials with the USDM RLX floating in the clouds?

Oh, my god.

To get the message out that an "ugly" [sic] car like the 4G TL was something you should buy was going to take some serious innovative thinking, and nobody was doing it. The reason that high front end and beak was there had to do with Honda's decision to grab a safety bull by the horns...they were ahead of the game with that design by a few years, but they never really talked about it.

George Knighton

Sometimes I feel like I'm watching a replay of the Studebaker-Packard disaster. :-)

George Knighton

Even overseas advertising is dumb.

And the theme song from Bali Hai?

Really?

Do millennials even know Bali Hai?

Jesus, won't somebody save these people from themselves.

holografique

It is absolutely amazing to me the amount of slack you guys give Acura for a $60k+ flagship vehicle placing you in a completely and highly dangerous situation like this. Doesn't matter what other manufacturers have similar or worse issues...this is flat out ridiculous. Thank god you weren't accelerating to pass an 18-wheeler, merged over and then suddenly lose power...

Unbelievable.

neuronbob

Au contraire, my friend! No slack given. I'm not pleased with the situation, but am lucky to have a cooperating dealer that is taking me seriously. Further, I'm in the last few months of my lease, and when the opportunity comes to get out of it early (and it will, just trust me), I will.

holografique

^ definitely helps that you have a dealership taking it serious. just glad you're ok amigo.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Enjoy it but stay safe!

neuronbob

Still chasing the problem down.

Problem happened again in late December, this time without any errors. Took the car back to the dealer, they looked at the fuel system, and they contacted Techline. I got the car back after I think a day or two, while they waited for what the Techline would tell them (slow response due to the Christmas holidays). I got a call back to take my car to the dealer. They kept the car for over three weeks in total. After two weeks, I was told they could find nothing and to pick up the car. I ultimately involved the general manager of the dealership. It so happened that the Acura factory rep was at the dealership that day, as well. They recommended replacing a brake pedal sensor, and that part was on backorder. It was installed early in the week. At that point, I chose not to prolong things, and picked up the car. They left the diagnostic systems in a state such that if an error occurs, it will take a "snapshot" to assess the state of said systems at the time of the error. So far, no issues. They kept asking me if I was using my left foot to brake (i.e. operator error). What am I, a rally driver?

I don't think the installed part was the answer here, particularly given the errors noted in my OP. Not sure what I'm going to do at this point. I'm not angry at anyone. Dealer has treated me quite well, honestly, so no complaints there. Were the value of the car not so far under the residual value stated in the lease, I'd trade out immediately. Unfortunately, I have no ammo to fight the situation as a very thorough evaluation has led to no issue being found, and given the error occurs randomly, there will be no resolution without recurrence, including the error messages above.

I'm mostly posting in case this situation or these errors happen to someone else, and to vent a little. I'm not .....I think?

TampaRLX-SH

Did you happen to check the codes? Maybe someone familiar with the SH warning messages can give some source insight ***paging EE4Life***

But based on the 1st message, I would think it was something with the Intelligent Power Unit and / or the Power Drive Unit. Now weather it is hardware or software related remains to be seen.

As far as the secondary LDW message, I would think that, like the RL, one electrical fault cascades into false alarms in subsequent electronic systems. I makes me think of the way the RL would light up all kinds of warnings simply due to a compromised battery or electrical connection. Restarting / rebooting the car resolved it until the source electrical connection was again compromised. Aside from a weak battery, the RL would suffer these warnings with a loose battery lead connection or the terminal posts needing cleaning. Since the RLX SH has multiple power components, connections and software talking between them, it may be a similar fragile connection to one of these units?

Complete speculation, but the secondary LDW message reads to that cascade effect some experienced in the RLs electrical systems.