holografique

What Tampa said.

And last I checked both my lease papers and the Acura.com website, the RLX costs $62k when opted for the Advanced model and all the features you would expect in this class vehilce.

So yes, we expect more when being asked to invest that much into a companies product. Especially when I can get alot more for my hard earned money from competing companies that actually understand what it is to execute and deliver on "luxury" and creating real "brand loyalty".

holografique

Keep us posted Tampa, very interested to read about your experience.

woropallo

I will throw my 2 cents for RLX PAWS, not the SH, since I seem to be the only one on this forum with a 2015 RLX Advance. As i have stated before, my 2015 does not have the issues stated in the 2014 so that means they made some changes and corrected some of the 2014 issues in the 2015 release. The same price and the only difference I got a heated steering wheel. It appears they have made more refinements to the 2016 and added more features for the same money so they are progressing. Maybe not to the expectation of some of the folks on this forum but there is progress. It blows my mind that folks on this forum will wait years for their expectation to be met by a particular car manufacture. I don't understand why if people are so disappointed in a manufacture that do not meeting their expectation why don't you just move on to a car that meet your expectation. Please don't take this personnaly just an old man perception. Go get what makes you happy today and stop hoping for tomorrow since tomorrow might never come.

MisterZDX

I don't think anyone here expected a totally different car for 2016, but at least enough changes to warrant consideration. One of the major gripes from the general public is the bland exterior styling....not a big problem to fix. A few tweaks here and there could've easily addressed that. A perfect example of what I mean is the 03-05 Accord Sedan compared to what Honda did with the 06-07 refresh. They turned a boring and bland sedan into something sexy.

Yes we all know that cars these days have a model run of about 5 years or more, but gone are the days when automakers can afford to wait years to make drastic improvements to a slow selling and poorly received model like the RLX. (As big of a seller as the Camry is, even Toyota got the picture and made the 2015 Camry look drastically different from the 2012 redesign. Why? Because one of the biggest complaints was the bland exterior styling).

What Acura should've done was wait to debut the 2016 model in the Fall with MAJOR improvements (it's only March, did we really need a new 2016 when there are several 2014's and 2015's still sitting on dealer lots unsold?)

In my opinion, most of us on this forum aren't being harsh but are speaking more so out of disappointment and frustration. As a potential RLX buyer and Honda/Acura loyalist, I would have a hard time buying a brand new 2016 (with so little changes) when I can just buy a used 2014 (with basically the same features) for a steal of a price.

Maybe the 2017 model year will bring in those changes that we all speak of here. I'm afraid by then it may be too late and most of us will have already moved on. And the chances of Acura luring in customers away from the German brands and Lexus at the RLX price point is damn near slim to none. Their only hope at even remotely saving this generation of the RLX is to listen to and cater to us loyalist who have been waiting years for them to get their new flagship right. If not, then they're better off cutting their loses and going back to the drawing board to plan a launch of an all new flagship model in a few years.

Colin

I don't think that is a good example. The Accord sells ~300K units a year, almost paying for the tooling to make new sheetmetal in one year. The RLX will never pay for it's tooling (as it is) and is already too expensive. There is no way they could make a change and pass on the costs. This car will have to live out it's life unchanged, with only less expensive cosmetic upgrades like bumpers and head/taillights.

holografique

And for the record, the new 2016 RLX (without SH-AWD) now costs $65k after you choose the Advance model, and option it out with what appear to be new 19" rims (still bland compared to the competition, yet cost $2800???), illuminated door sills, all weather-mats, and mud guards.

So...yea...

woropallo

When I compare my 2015 Advance with the package 2 no upscale rims, all weather mats or illuminated door sills it at the same price as my MSRP. However, it comes with more features and an enhanced or tuned suspension which is also not on mine.but we will have to see from review how that suspension works versus ours. The only question is whether they will also get the discount I got where I paid 56.7k.

neuronbob

Ahem.

deepen03

Just noticed that and came to the forums to find out why! I mean is it dead then? There is no mention of the 2015 either.

neuronbob

There never was a 2015 Sport Hybrid, just the 2014 released at the beginning of the 2015 MY. If Acura had ben able to change the VINs to reflect the MY, I'm sure they would have.

Acura has said nothing official about a 2016 Sport Hybrid yet, so we don't know whether it is still being prepared, or whether it is cancelled. I doubt cancelled as plans for the Japanese Legend Hybrid EX are proceeding apace, with marketing videos and all.

Again, it's too bad, it is a fabulous car.

Pens Fan

It has been said many times by the passionate people on this board that the RLX and RLX SH-AWD Hybrid launches have been a disaster. Many of us have leased or purchased the RL and were very happy with that car and were eagerly awaiting the RLX especially the Hybrid. The lack of information and then extended delays frustrated many of us. It is a mortal sin in marketing to turn off your most passionate and enthusiastic target buyers. I cannot imagine a worse botched effort, especially from a Company that has in the past produced so many satisfying cars.

Here is hoping that this is a lesson that Acura Corporate will learn from, but unfortunately for them it will be too late to hold on or even recapture some of the customers who leave and may never return to the brand. It is hard to win back customers you frustrate and lose.

R. White

Honda has cancelled a number of hybrid programs over the years. They are not a serious player in that segment. Who is going to repair these orphans in ten years ?

Mike_TX

LOL. Let me wipe away the blood from the comments following my last post.

For those who posted about the price, let me ask ... did you actually PAY the list price? Hmmm ... I don't think so, but if you did, you screwed up. Acura discounts the RLX HEAVILY, as opposed to brands like M-B, Audi and BMW, who charge pretty much the window sticker price. So, the RLX ain't really a $62k car. If the sticker says $62, you could get it for closer to $50 if you tried, so it's really a $50-55k car at most.

Now, the Sport Hybrid is a different animal and I can't speak to that.

For those who expected a higher-end car "because you've been asking for it for years" ... Acura isn't a full-blown luxury car brand, so they aren't going to give you the whole enchilada. For that, you need to move up to the German brands, or maybe Jag or Land Rover. At its heart, folks, Acura is a Honda subsidiary, and Honda is a value brand.

I still say that FOR THE PRICE, the RLX is a pretty compelling package. Honda doesn't push it aggressively, for reasons known only to them, and just as they didn't push the RL before it. For those who take the plunge, I think we get a pretty damn nice car. And I'm saying that as a former owner of an RL, 4 different BMW's (including a 7-series), several Lexuses (including an LS460 and 2 different LS400's), a couple of Cadillacs and other nice cars.

I think some of you guys really have outgrown Acura and are ready to move on up to Audi, Mercedes or fill-in-the-blank.

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TSX69

I started this thread bc @ the time, salespeople were telling me not to buy the 2014 hybrid as the 2016 was gonna be an MMC with vast improvements. Guess they were partly right as the 2016 did get more than the usual off-year additions.

I somehow doubt that there will be a hybrid as they are probably using all their resources for the NSX & the Honda Legend (I wonder how that sells).

This probably will be my last Acura unless I switch to a CUV like the MDX or they do something major for the 2nd generation RLX. Acura does a nice job of giving Honda owners something to move up to but there product line is so limited that it does not give current owners much to work with.

Colin

Of course, the NSX will receive the thrust of the marketing money towards the end of the year but I hope they're planning to capitalize on this and release the RLX-H to have inventory on hand when the NSX arrives.
LOL, talk about half empty vs. half full. Honda has certainly failed to gain traction with IMA, but they hardly orphaned the technology. The original Insight lived a full lifespan as did the 2G Insight. There have always been Civic Hybrids available through three generations. Only the original Accord Hybrid and ILX Hybrid lived abbreviated lives.

Anyway, the gist of your post seems to be ignorant of the fact that IMA is over a decade old and being replaced by an entirely new generation of hybrid systems. The new 2 and 3 motor systems are brand new and just starting life.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

I just looked on Truecar and found a 14RLX-SH Tech for just over $61k and an Advance for a little over $67k. I paid $54,500 for mine on 12/31/14. I still think it would have been an awesome value even at sticker. A buddy of mine is taking delivery of a MB 350E-Class with lots of options that for the most part are standard on the RLX Advance. His "deal price" after a $4600 discount was still more than $81k!!! Now I make a healthy living and could easily afford that, but $81k and it is not even an E63 or an E550! Those are way more, and don't forget the huge running cost of ownership and the massive depreciation to boot. If you want to do a head to head, price match a 2 year old MB 550 E-Class to a 2 year old RLX (Adv or Tech) regarding depreciation, now that would be an eye opener. The Acura RLX (decaf) is at a 31% depreciation rate and my friend's brand new MB will be at 56%!!! If he knew that the $81k car he is paying for today will be worth $35k in 2 years, he would run from the dealership. But that is his choice, not mine. If you really want to be nuts, price out an E63 with all the trimmings. That will bring you to the table paying more than $126k! Now I could whine and say that I am driving an over priced Accord all I want, but in the end I think that would be stupid. While I would be bitching and moaning about my car, I would drive past lots of people that would gladly drive it and feel like they won to lottery. Case and point, I just got the first oil change today. You should have seen the guys at the lube shop gawking at the car. They were falling all over themselves. Just offering some perspective here, not criticisms.

I think the RLX-SH is a tremendous value even if there are some things I wish were different (that list is very short). I would feel the same way even if I paid MSRP. The fact that I didn't makes the value proposition all the more powerful. In today's world the MSRP is the starting point for negotiations. When I bought my 14 MDX Tech I paid just under $50k with almost $2k in options added in, which meant I saved about $3700. The dealer still made about $3500 on me and I got a deal I can live with.

It is just some perspective from an older dude who has hit a lot of potholes, and seen a lot of amazing things after driving almost 1,000,000 miles. Take my comments for what they are.......an opinion.

holografique

Wrong. Those of us who paid List MSRP did nothing more than make a move based on the expectations that Acura had set with it's customers up to that point - a solid, reliable, well designed product that was worth every penny asked for in the sale price. I bought my RLX in June of 2013. Call me an early adopter who trusted the brand and their ability to execute on something greater than my TL.

My final sale price on a 39-month / 18k mile lease for a 2014 Advanced model with all-weather mats and mud-guard options added was $63,xxx with $0 down. I don't have the specific numbers on me at the moment, but that's what it came out to.


Wrong again. Those insane deals that many of you got came as a result of Acura realizing they couldn't get enough sales going at the MSRP list price. So they had to drop trousers to get the general public to even consider buying the vehicle.

The only mistake I made was in trusting Acura to deliver on their history of solid, well-designed, and reliable products on a vehicle that was a step up from their existing products. I assumed that if the RL/RLX was their flagship, and I just had a stellar experience with my 06 TL, then surely I should get the same experience and better by paying $30k more for what I paid on my 06 TL. Right? Wrong.

I was clearly wrong. I should know better than to assume anything.

Bottom line: I expect more when I pay that much money for a car. And you said it perfect - Acura is not a real luxury brand. They are an "entry-level" luxury brand. The problem is: commanding $60k+ MSRP for a car is NOT in line with an "entry level luxury" business model. And that is why Acura continues to fail to capture the hearts and minds of the luxury market in a car of this class and why they will continue to succeed in everything below that. You can't release a product that commands that price and then act like you don't even care about the product. Acura has done a horrific job in making me feel good about the amount of money I've put into the RLX. If they don't care enough to market their vehicle, talk about their vehicle, then why should I feel good about standing behind that very same product? That is a huge part of building brand loyalty. Show your customers you actually care about the very product you sold them. ESPECIALLY when it's supposed to be your FLAGSHIP! Instead, the entire RLX release has been nothing but a confused botched mess of short-sighted scrambling and decisions.

Yes, it is time for me to move on.

Mike_TX

When I bought (well, leased, actually) my 2006 RL, the discount was about $10,000. When I leased the 2014 RLX, the discount was actually a bit more.

True, early adopters sometimes get the shaft (are you listening, neuronbob? LOL), but that's always been the case. And if you'd looked at the history of the RL's before it, you'd know it wasn't going to sell at anywhere near list for long.

I honestly believe Honda knows RLX's aren't going to sell for 65 grand (and you can probably thank your dealer as much as anyone for charging that much). Honda set a high price point for the car to position it as a lux vehicle, then they quietly drop the price to move them. It's an old game in the car business.

When the RLX debuted, I remember telling my salesman that I'd come back when the deep discounting started. And I did.

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Colin

I don't think positioning had anything to do with it. I think they're just tired of having their butt handed to them by the exchange rates. I'd heard that at one point, they were losing ~$5000 for every TSX they sold back when the Yen was 70 to the dollar. I remember that prior to the CR-Z release I had asked someone whether they could make money on the car 120 Yen, he said they could make money at 100 Yen! Nobody dreamed it would fall as low as 70. My guess is that the RLX was made to be profitable at 70-80 Yen but with it stable at 100, they've giving money back.

Malibu Flyer

I just wanted to add my perspective on the brand differences. I am a very happy owner of the Sport Hybrid Advance. For the record, I got mine for $61,250. I added an extended warranty 8 years, 120,000 miles because I tend to keep my cars for the long run. The delay of the hybrid almost pushed me to an A 7 but once I drove the Sport Hybrid I passed on the A 7.

Now the wife wants to replace her '05 TSX. She has driven Acuras since her first, an '86 Legend with a manual. She has had a '96 Integra GS-R with a manual and her TSX. She likes a small car that is fun to drive and has always been somewhat disappointed with her TSX in that regard. She only puts around 4,000 miles/yr. on the car and uses it for local shopping trips and driving the grand kids around. Anyway, she has looked at the Lexus CT hybrid [and hated the drive], the 2016 ILX and an Audi A 3. We are going back to a comparison test drive on the A 3 1.8 and the A 3 2.0 with AWD. I think she will end up with one of these, even though the ILX was OK. It will be our first German car and the first non-Acura in our last 6 cars. Depending on options the Audi is likely to come in $5 k more than the ILX but she feels it worth the money to get the drive of the Audi vs. the Acura. If there was an ILX hybrid that used the electric motors like the RLX hybrid, she would be all over that but sadly it doesn't yet exist. She wants her new car now since I have mine. It doesn't matter that her TSX has only 40,000 miles on it and still runs great.

neuronbob

I'm listening, Mike, LOL!

For the record, I love my Sport Hybrid. My upset is that I can't share the goodness with others, in part because of the awful marketing job Acura has done with this car.

Despite my comments above, I am optimistic that Acura will get the RLX right enough to sell better. They fixed their bread and butter sedan, the TLX, first, then the ILX. Hopefully, 2017 will be the year the RLX comes into its own, even if it never gets big sales numbers.

Mike_TX

Oops. I keep forgetting the rule: Don't poke the bear!



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Mike_TX

Okay, I'm confused. The press release says:

But today, another AZ member who works at my Acura dealer showed me the 2016 car, and the wheels are a gunmetal grey color. (Ewwww.)

So does that mean that only the Navigation car gets shiny wheels, and the other trim levels get the grey wheels?

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holografique

Pics or it didnt happen

And at this point, you should know by now that any release information or makerting info on the RLX is nothing BUT confusion.

Mike_TX

I'm going back by there later today and I'll try to get a shot.

In the meantime, maybe Nixx will snap one and post it and save me the trouble.

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Mike_TX

Darn it! I mean NEXX. I get the screen name mixed up with someone else.

Sorry.

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Mike_TX

Okay, here's the 2015 and 2016 wheels side by side.




The 2016 wheels look pretty shiny in the sun, but they are definitely gunmetal in tone, as opposed to being like chrome wheels.

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weather

^^ I had no problem with the finish of the RLX wheels....Its the busy pattern I didn't like.

holografique

thanks for posting those Mike! I'm not quite sure what to think. At first glance it makes me think it may blend better with the darker color options (CBP and Graphite) and eliminate the harsh contrast. But not so sure with the lighter colors.

I'd have to really see them in person and in various lighting conditions to really tell. I think it would also help when the tires are cleaned and polished up. That one in the pic above is all dry and ashy, lol I think what's also interesting is the gaps come through more in the design and you can see the "twists" in each of the bands better. Short of seeing it in person, I'm almost liking these new 2016 rims better.

Personally when it comes to wheels I prefer muted and less "shiney". Can't stand pure "chrome"..the bling just looks tacky to me.

proudMDX

These are the same rims on the JDM Legend. I believe someone posted a link over on TOV to a video walk around of the interior and exterior. It was obvious even under dim lighting that the finish was significantly darker. I personally like these a lot better. They remind me of the 2nd gen MDX MMC Advance rims.

neuronbob

Me like! Nice color.

Mike_TX

I told Nexx everyone would like them except me. To me, gunmetal wheels look like they come pre-coated with brake dust. Nasty.

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proudMDX

The term "graphite" would imply a matte finish. This is probably why Acura termed the new wheels as having a "bright finish." Maybe to remove the stigma of graphite/dark finish = dirty/coated in brake dust. Actually now that I think about it, these rims seem to have a shinier/glossier finish to them compared to the 2nd gen MMC Advance trim MDX. The set of Vossen CV5's pictured on the RLX Neuronbob posted above would be a true matte graphite finish. Has anyone seen Vossen's new "gloss graphite" finish they just came out with? Those are more akin to these new "bright finish" rims.

holografique

I'm not aware of them using the term "graphite" for the new wheels. I was referring to "graphite" as in the actual "graphite luster metallic" color option for the exterior of the RLX body and that these new "darker" rims may be blend better with the CBP (black) and GLM (graphite) exterior color options.

The only description I've seen Acura use for the new rims is "brighter finish". But I agree with Mike that they look darker with this new "gun metal" color being used.

iutodd

Just as an FYI:

There is a 2016 Acura RLX AWD listed on the Fuel Economy website. 28/30/32.

So I'm pretty sure the Hybrid is coming back for 2016 as I don't think vehicles get listed there just for kicks. Also Jeff over at TOV says that sources tell him the Hybrid is coming back soon.

proudMDX

From the Atlanta Auto Show:

holografique

hmm...sorta on the fence now. back to the ol "have to see them in person".

thanks for posting proudMDX!

MisterZDX

Now that is one nice looking car. It's amazing how photographing the RLX from certain angles makes it look so much better.

proudMDX

I have to admit... It was pretty bad ass as I walked up to it. Those wheels were stunning with the black paint. Holografique, I highly suggest you attend. The show goes until this Sunday!

proudMDX

This poor beast made it to the show as well. I swear this exact model has probably been circling around the entire country, and it showed. The portion of the infotainment system where the toggle/scroll/jog knob is located was completely unhinged from the dash. I was easily able to pull it back to view a bunch of electronic pieces inside with the "HONDA" label. Not only that but the rear sunshade was somehow missing. So when I pressed the button two metal hinges on each side would begin to rise with nothing to hold... Hmm. This sounds weird but it made me feel kind of bad how neglected this car really is. It was pushed off on the far corner of the Acura exhibit, echoing how Acura also decided to completely drop it (and the regular RLX) from its ad campaigns. I really hope Honda shifts into overdrive over at Saiyama and produce more than a mere 250 for the 2016 model year to get some more awareness for such a unique automobile.