hondamore

I believe with the gap between the 2014 Sport Hybrid and the 2016, it should be reasonable to expect more changes than the usual 2nd model year addition of a couple of small extras thrown in. That said, I agree that any significant visual change or more significant performance change will be at the MMC in 2017. My guess is that they add a few extra technology or convenience goodies and perhaps a 9-speed transmission to boost fuel economy and performance a little bit (although the latter might not happen until the production moves over to Ohio).
Purely my guess.

George Knighton

Is there a reason in particular that you think that RLX production is moving to Ohio?

We've sort of hoped that, but haven't seen any clear indication that it was possible.

Pens Fan

Agreed, since the Legend is being produced now it is quite plausible to start production of 2016 models right after that and ship them here. No car company could afford to miss two model years of a vehicle, talk about letting it die on the vine. When I test drove a Hybrid in October, the dealer whom I have purchased multiple cars from advised that the 2016 models would arrive in Spring 2015. There was no pressure put on me to obtain the 2014 model by saying these are the last cars you will see until calendar 2016. Maybe this is wishful thinking but I still believe we will see them much sooner than later.

neuronbob

If the 2016 is coming in the spring, MMC or no, wouldn't dealers know they have allocation by now? What's going on is pretty unusual for Acura.

Further, Acura is being unusually tight-lipped. I mean, nothing. All the press drives lately are from Canada. Why? I even asked around at the NAIAS and it was like an "ain't snitching" convention over in the Acura booth about the Sport Hybrid.....or there was nothing for them to say.

I dislike that all we have is speculation.

George Knighton

Except, perhaps, that it's a niche vehicle on which they make little money to start with. If you think about the price difference between the MSRP of the Sport Hybrid and the RLX P-AWS editions, it probably doesn't even make up for the content differences.

That'd be a nice surprise if you're right. It's great technology, and I hope they can get the Sport Hybrid into the hands of more people.

As for the RLX P-AWS versions, I wish they had a way to get through to people.

I was satisfied enough with my 2014 RLX Advance that I had to stop and think for a minute before I spoke with the dealer about the Sport Hybrid.

There's a modern prejudice against high powered front wheel drive cars. They're not going to be the ultimate this or that, but as I've said so many times, "P-AWS works." It's not going to give you the adhesion of all wheel drive, but if you're comparing a rear wheel drive sedan to the RLX, you're probably going to like the way that the RLX handles a little bit better.

It's just...a car. A good, solid Honda. Highly efficient (efficient at power delivery *and* fuel economy) for a high powered big sedan, and it's largely because it is your typical Honda front wheel drive vehicle.

And the financial efficiency of the drivetrain package allows them to give us quite a bit of content, and solid, high quality materials for the price of the vehicle, compared to other vehicles of similar price.

I don't know what's with all the anti-RLX prejudice.

I believe they've aimed the car at Accord and TL owners looking to move up, and that's why it's not appealing to the general public.

holografique

Couldn't agree more. This is one of the things they got right with the RLX. Coming from my 06 TL that was just pure FWD, P-AWS is a noticeable difference and step up from a car with just normal FWD.

hondamore

Just speculating based on some information from some time ago suggesting that the Sport Hybrid RLX production COULD be moved to the same facility as the NSX. I can't find the source of the information to determine if it was a poster providing the info or if it was from Honda. My recollection is that it was official Honda info but I can't confirm that. Again, I don't recall reading that the move was definite, just a possibility. The fumbled RLX Sport Hybrid launch complete with delays, rumored battery shortages and subsequent minute production and sales and the current focus on the Legend my have postponed any decision regarding moving production to Ohio. Just my guess.

woropallo

Not sure I agree with this statement. " the price difference between the MSRP of the Sport Hybrid and the RLX PAWS editions, it probably doesn't even make up for the content differences". Many other manufacture that have gas and hybrid, have a price difference of only an few thousand dollars. Acura RLX PAWS Advanced and the Sport Hybrid is around five thousand. Granted it a Sport Hybrid but I a not sure the few extra features it has and the Hybrid system is worth anything more than 5k. I think the RLX and the Sport Hybrid are just limited production slow moving cars. Acura Flagship car IMHO has never been a fast mover for many of the reason brought up in this forum.

Malibu Flyer

While the RL was never a huge seller, at least in the early years of the 2nd generation it sold many times more than the RLX. There is a difference between selling a lot and not selling at all. The RLX got such poor reviews and negative comments from the loyal Acura customers who post here I think that Acura must be very disappointed in the sales. Acura would certainly want enough sales of their flagship model to give them the benefit of the hallo effect. I know the NSX is something of a hallo car but it is so specialized it doesn't really help the brand in the same way as the top of the line luxury sedan. The RLX should be the car to which buyers of the TLX or even an Accord owner wants to trade up to as they advance in age and financial sucess. That is what I think Acura needs from their flagship car. The RLX or Sport Hybrid may still get there but the MMC needs to make some important tweaks.

In regard to the price difference between the PAWS and the Sport Hybrid all I can say is that for me the price wasn't the biggest reason I went with the Sport Hybrid. For me the difference was between a car I had little or no interest to a car that puts a smile on my face every time I open the door. For me the comparison was to other cars that offered the luxury, performance and handling of the Sport Hybrid rather than to the PAWS RLX. Based on that criteria I think the Sport Hybrid is a good "value". The German competition for comparablely equipped cars are significantly more $s.

Just my 2 cents.

MisterZDX

It all comes down to pricing and exterior styling. The RLX is not a bad looking car, but a little too bland when compared to most current sedans seen on the road today. Although somewhat similar in exterior styling, the 2013+ Accord has a sexy presence and stance that's hard to deny. That is one design Honda definitely got right. Somehow they missed the mark with the oversized, overpriced, and bland RLX.

The interior materials and tech is stellar, but in that price point personally I would want a car that makes me smile everytime I walk up to it and justifies paying a high monthly payment. The RLX just doesn't evoke that kind of emotion from the general public. Even the 4G TL (hate it or love it) fared better because it was so different. I really tried to like the RLX styling and if the mid cycle refresh is keen on the eye, it still may be the next car in my garage.

George Knighton

There are a few parts in common. I'm not sure how much we can add to Ohio, with everything else going on there.

I agree that it would be nice, and it might improve quality.

George Knighton

How many electric motors do these other hybrids have?

Are they DCT that'll double downshift, and do they vector torque?

:-)

This is why I don't like this "RLXh" [sic] stuff. It's not that kind of hybrid.

neuronbob

^^^^^
That is a marketing problem. Acura can't seem to figure out how to get the word out.

Colin

I agree, but we also need to recognize there isn't that much momentum right now.
This is why I was saying they could/should piggyback on the 'self-marketing' NSX. I remember back when I first started, they spent a lot of training time pointing out the similarities between the NSX and Integra.

George Knighton

It continues to look to me like they've never been all that interested in getting the word out, at least not for the cars we are driving right now.

sooththetruth

You know, I am not so naive to believe that reviewers are without bias, and that some of them may even be "influenced" by perks of some kind when reviewing a vehicle. But the reviewers have not routinely loved the Sports hybrid. They REALLY snoozed over the PAWS RLX, and the problems with the suspension with the front driver have really made me take pause, over PAWS. (sorry, couldn't help myself).

I am a golfer, often traveling with friends for weekend trips and I decided the Sports Hybrid was out for me, because of the trunk. All that interior, and not enough trunk.

Then, the car is just ....dowdy. The MMC for the RLX really needs to be a better looking car. I am not a panache person, I now own a Hyundai Genesis that has all the space of the RLX PAWS and about the same gas mileage with lots of standard features.

The value of the RLX as compared to similar German brands is often discussed, but I see Genesis sales taking off, and the RLX's proving stagnant, and I don't think it's a lack of marketing, because I am seeing ACURA ads EVERYWHERE. On this forum people are admitting that the RLX PAWS doesn't effect emotional bliss about driving. It's described as a tool, not a good looking exterior, and isn't a driver's car. And then the Legend-ary reliability hasn't been there either.

I WANT to love the PAWS, because I want the interior space, and need it, and I want the passion back in my driving. I drove TLX's, and found more passion in driving the 4 cylinder TLX with Paws than the 6 cylinder SH AWD. But the TLX looks aren't great either. (The TLX is selling well, though). The ILX is the best looking of the ACURA's and only now will have the power and dynamics to sell better. The Sports Hybrid is a fantastic idea, but just doesn't fit everyone. I can't afford a back-up CTS V wagon for my golfing trips. (note, humorous and not intended snidely)

In any case, I do see an awakening at Acura. There may be more good to come. Someone above mentioned the excellent styling of the Accord, and I could not agree more. There is designing talent there. The NSX has killer good looks.

I have no constructive comments on how to make the PAWS RLX a joyful car to drive, for more people. But I bet there is an answer.

sooththetruth

Oh, I am coming off stronger than I intended. The sports hybrid is an incredible car, but it isn't a car I can have now. I do think the interiors are underrated, compared to the Germans. However I am not sure what to expect from the MMC, but if it did have surprising improvement in looks, I would really been tempted to drive one, and risk the "the grip".

Colin

I could probably tell you what NOT to expect. Should MMC happen for '16, it's highly unlikely you'll see any changes to the sheetmetal or glass. Normal changes are molded plastic parts like lights and bumpers. Whether this changes styling enough to suit your needs is debatable.

neuronbob

Hey sooththetruth, I concur I would not have been happy with the PAWS RLX except for the trunk space. I'm glad to have the backup V wagon for golfing trips, LOL! That will hold four sets of golf clubs and everyone's baggage, too.

The new Genesis is a pretty good car with lots of features. Enjoy in good health! Hopefully Acura will swing and connect with the next RLX, should they choose to remain in the mid-lux space (and my gut says they probably will not on the long term). I agree with Colin that the MMC is likely to be less than what people expect, and I think it will probably be later than we expect, too.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

The great thing about this country is we are entitled to our opinions, even if we disagree. I wanted the RLX-SH since I first saw it at the New York Auto Show. I can understand some of the criticisms that the styling is not exotic enough, or that the interior is the corporate standard for the brand and that there are very few differences between the RLX, MDX and the TLX regarding layout and content now. I really think that if the SH was the only model and the P-AWS model never existed, the RLX model would have sold much better because more people would have test drove it, ultimately buying it. I just don't understand how someone can drive the SH and not feel compelled to buy it. It is just that good. I drove an Audi A8 and although it was very powerful and rode very nicely, I could never justify paying around $105,000 for something like that. Not that an MSRP of $62-66k for the RLX Sport Hybrid (model dependent) before discounts is chump change, but even if they were priced the same, I would still choose the RLX-SH. I would respectfully ask that before any of us criticize any other model car, that we should have first hand experiences to relate to.

Malibu Flyer

I agree with you about the Sport Hybrid........what mostly makes it such a great car, or I should say distinguishes it is the drive. The drive is what sparks passion in me much more than the exterior appearance. While it would be better if it had the panache of the A-7, the way it handles, the power and smoothness puts it in a class by itself. Different attributes appeal to different people and I understand why the trunk is an important turn off for many people. Most of the Sport Hybrid owners here all seem to value the drive a great deal and therefore love their car. All I can say to folks who have formed an opinion of the car without a test drive is that they really should hold their judgement until they can drive it.

sooththetruth

All I can say to folks who have formed an opinion of the car without a test drive is that they really should hold their judgement until they can drive it.


Yes, it seems this car is like cocaine. There have been warnings on this board not to test drive it, lest your children become homeless, your wife leaves you for the more reliable street hot dog vendor downtown, your ex -friends point you out to their children as an example as to what happens when you give in to temptation. Your dog will turn down the pork chops you offer it because they are from Wal-mart, and inedible even for a dog.

I mean, I haven't driven the SH AWD. What if I were to like it? Maybe I should buy test drive insurance? Is there Sports Hybrid rehab; people sitting in circles discussing the day they went out to lunch, and ended up in Montana, after suffering a 2 day Sports Hybrid induced fugue state? And the policeman who was to drive the POSSESSED VEHICLE back to the station disappears?

Oh, the humanity.




(I really want one)

George Knighton

There's certainly a difference in quality of materials, however. :-)

George Knighton

Here's a dumb question, however.

Do you really believe that the RLX Sport Hybrid would appeal to the majority of the sedan buying public?

Or was it never designed for that kind of mass appeal?

It continues to amaze me that they never gave Saiyama the room to produce but so many of any kind of RLX, Sport Hybrid or not.

It's either a 250-car beta test ahead of the NSX Sport Hybrid and other cars using the technology, or they're just trying to keep a handful of people in Hondas instead of gravitating away from the brand and into Mercedes or some other more expensive car.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

I will speak for all of us SH owners that we appreciate the humor and a little poking fun of us. Is the SH an exotic sports car desirable by all of us? Possibly depending on your definition of exotic. Could we live with its limitations on a daily basis regardless of where we live in the country? Likely yes. Is the SH a super car? That opinion is based on personal perspectives on what you define as a super car. My opinion is simple: I look forward to having a need to drive it every time. I enjoy driving it in any weather or traffic condition. I think the value/smiles per mile is a bargain. Are there things I might have changed in the design studio when they were aligning style concepts before the show car was presented to the public? Sure. No car is going to be perfect and there are always compromises that need to be made in the design of any technology. The SH is not exempt from such limitations. Malibu is right. Styling and limitations of design aside, it is the driving experience that we SH owners are drawn to, and because there are so many ways to drive the car and it seems to bridge so many divides of environmental driving experiences (curvy roads, stop and go traffic, snowy conditions, long haul drives with the family, shopping excursions, night driving, etc...), it is very hard for any performance car to be fantastic at all of these things. A Jaguar F-Type (which I have driven so I can speak about it) is an awe inspiring car, but it would be horrible in just about any driving situation other than a dry deserted highway or secondary road because it is a pure awesome sports car. The SH touches the luxury wishes, executive appeal, 18 year old hit the gas desires, and overall adult sensibilities with the gas mileage results that when we evaluate the subjective and objective components of any car, the SH does most things very well. I only wish more people experienced what is one of the best cars Acura ever made (close second to the NSX both old and new).

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Very good point.

George Knighton

Well. They're glad to hear that, I'm sure.

I felt that way about my 2010 4G TL 6-6 SH-AWD, for close to five years before I decided to go the direction of the RLX.

With that 6-6 and with the Sport Hybrid, I'll find myself just randomly thinking, "What a nice car."

George Knighton

But they need to fix the wind noise.

:-)

RLX-Sport Hybrid

And again we live in a great country where we can voice our opinions without fear of persecution about this or any other topic.

Wind noise issues (for some) aside, or perceived "rattles" in the front end suspension design, it is an extreme privilege to enjoy such a machine. The average person in Russia would be considered wealthy to own any of these cars. A quick YouTube search will show the crap people drive in that country. We go to great lengths to discuss and analize car waxes, tire dressings and gas mileage while in most of the rest of the world are concerned about simply getting from here to there and not dying on the way. Gives some perspective.

fsmith

Excellent! Thank you, sooththetruth, for beautifully describing the way the Sport Hybrid has ruined my life in a way that my spouse and friends will finally be able to understand. All of the symptoms you list have happened to me since I got my SH-AWD. And yet... I cannot resist the urge I feel every day to drive it again and get one more fix. And, like a true druggie, I keep touting the high to everyone who will listen. Was it all worth it? Absolutely!

RLX-Sport Hybrid

To quote Jim Cramer....Bu ya!!!! Time for another "hit". No Betty Ford Clinic for either of us.

TSX69

I am fairly impressed with the 2016 Acura ILX & RDX refreshes, which gives me hope for the eventual RLX MMC.

It may be a little less dramatic as the RLX already has jewel eyes & I am not so sure how Honda's shuriken-esque rims will look on it but I feel confident that they will make it look sportier. They typically do not do much to the interiors other than upgrade materials so not expecting much there.

It has already been stated that the 3-dimensional grille will make its way across the lineup so that is a given.

wstr75

I like Acura's frontal appearance way more than Lexus's recent gaping look. Acura's beak in those shots seems to be returning to the understated look of its grills during the late 90s early 00s. Understated = integrated form and less jarring

neuronbob

Love the new grille. Banish the bigger Beak ASAP. Bring it to the RLX. I'll retrofit if it looks good enough.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

who the hell is designing these gawd awful wheels?

George Knighton

People who are given a mission with "appearance" several positions down the list of priorities, unfortunately.

:-)

holografique

1. didn't know about the RDX refresh. nice to see that along with the ILX refresh, and agree it's encouraging for what may come with the RLX refresh.

2. good lord they really need to do something about their wheel designers. this is the single biggest design problem they have at the moment. everything else is shaping up really nicely with the new design language, but oof...fire the wheel design team immediately, it's detracting from the newly improved styling and keeps the cars from hitting a higher level of luxury appearance. Seriously, the wheels make me instantly think "Ford", "Chevy", "GM", when I see them...

neuronbob

Um, my stock GM wheels in my CTS-V look pretty good, thank you.

I've commented on ugly Scura wheels before so nothing else to add here.

holografique

^ lol. no disrespect meant my friend

weather

I agree, Acura is unable to make sexy decent looking wheels lately....It is revolting and the RDX is good example