GSI

I found Mike Vicks Dad.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Aptl4jXYIIs"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Aptl4jXYIIs" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

elessar

^

Scottman111

How pathetic

Yumcha

From the Chicago Sun-Times...

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

+1

sonnyg80

good!

bent09

iTrader: (1)

Does anyone have the Emmit Smith or Deion Sanders comments because I find it hard for a person to be that stupid.

I was listening to XM and Deion was comparing fight dogs to the jewlery he used to wear. He says it is just a status thing. It went on to say:

He knows hundred of guys that do it today in the NFL
Vick is the victum
They are dogs
That he is not the ring leader so he should be let go




I would actually fight Deion if I saw him in person for being that stupid. We know he is scared to hit anything.

hornyleprechaun

^^ I haven't heard the Deion comments, but I have heard some of the Emmitt comments. They are going to stick up for him really no matter what he has done. In there eyes, and you have to believe in Vick's eyes too, he did nothing wrong. Same goes for Clinton Portis' comments.

That is why we (most of society) can admit he has done something wrong, but Vick has not grasped the fact that he IS Atlanta's #1 sports athlete and he should not be involved with stuff like that.

Even if there are hundreds of athletes doing the same thing, and if Vick does get put in jail, those athletes won't change what they are doing. It's just how some people choose to live their lives and they have to pay the consequences..

bent09

iTrader: (1)

Deion's inlighting article



I would’ve never thought Mike Vick, one of the NFL’s most exciting players — the man who makes the network execs smile every time he plays — would ever be indicted for crimes against man’s best friend.

The potential impact could be devastating.

He could lose millions worth of endorsements. Nike has already suspended the release of his new shoe. He could lose millions he was supposed to get from the Atlanta Falcons, if the club decides to cut him. That’s unlikely, but it could happen if he’s convicted or makes a plea arrangement.

Or his reputation might wind up so stained that he’s never forgiven in the court of public opinion. That would be too bad for the 27-year-old superstar.

This is all the result of perspective.

What a dog means to Vick might be a lot different than what he means to you or I. Hold on, don’t start shaking your head just yet. Listen to me.

Some people kiss their dogs on the mouth. Some people let their dogs eat from their plate. Some people dress their dogs in suits more expensive than mine, if you can believe that.

And some people enjoy proving they have the biggest, toughest dog on the street. You’re probably not going to believe this, but I bet Vick loves the dogs that were the biggest and the baddest. Maybe, he identified with them in some way.

You can still choose to condemn him, but I’m trying to take you inside his mind so you can understand where he might be coming from.

I’m sure all of the animal activists and Humane Society folks have a dart board with Vick’s picture in the center of it. And if he plays this season, PETA is going to picket every stadium where he plays.

Still, I must ask the question: Where is all of this going?

By now you’ve read all of the accusations about the cruelty involving the dogs — and I’m not just talking about their duels to the death. All of that is enough to make me cringe because I have three highly-trained protection German shepherds, just in case someone wants to rob my family.

Believe me, you don’t want to deal with them. With one German command, our dog Yascho turns into Cujo. And for the record, I live around the corner from the police station, so it won’t take them long to show up and save you from the dogs.

Now back to Vick.

Why are we indicting him? Was he the ringleader? Is he the big fish? Or is there someone else? The fights allegedly occurred at a property that he purchased for a family member. They apparently found carcasses on the property, but I must ask you again, is he the ringleader?

This situation reminds me of a scene in the movie “New Jack City,” when drug dealer Nino Brown is on the witness stand and eloquently says, “This thing is bigger than me.”

Are we using Vick to get to the ringleader? Are we using him to bring an end to dogfighting in the United States?

The only thing I can gather from this situation is that we’re using Vick.

Was he wrong? Absolutely. Was he stupid? Can’t argue with that. Was he immature? No doubt. But is he the ringleader? I just can’t see it.

I believe Vick had a passion for dogfighting. I know many athletes who share his passion. The allure is the intensity and the challenge of a dog fighting to the death. It’s like ultimate fighting, but the dog doesn’t tap out when he knows he can’t win.

It reminds me of when I wore a lot of jewelry back in the day because I always wanted to have the biggest chain or the biggest, baddest car. It gives you status.

Can I pause for a moment to ask you a question?

Who shot Darrant Williams? Remember the Denver Bronco cornerback? I’m just more concerned about bringing to justice someone who killed a human. Or finding out who broke into Miami Heat forward Antoine Walker’s home, tied him up and robbed him at gunpoint.

We’re attacking this dogfighting ring the same way a teenager attacks his MySpace page after school (by the way parents, make sure you monitor your kids). We should have the same passion for man that we have for man’s best friend.

The reason this is turning into a three-ring circus is that baseball is boring, basketball is months away, football is around the corner and we in the media don’t have a thing interesting to write about.

How will this end up? I have no idea. All I know is Falcons fans better pray because Vick’s backup is Joey Harrington. Enough said.

God bless and God willing I’ll hollah at you next week.

— Deion Sanders, a North Fort Myers High School graduate, played in the NFL and Major League Baseball. He works as an analyst for the NFL Network and is part-owner of the Austin Wranglers of the Arena Football League.

Yumcha

Has Deion had one too many helmet to helmet hits...?

hornyleprechaun

No he has found God

Yumcha

What is nuts is the number of players who have come to Vick's defense and said this is no biggie.

Portis also found nothing wrong with this, right?

hornyleprechaun

See a post above by myself.. 1st paragraph, last sentence

That is what I was trying to get at with that post, you obviously didn't read what I wrote.. But like I said players do not see this as a bad thing, and even if there are more involved they wont change their actions.

Yumcha

Oh oops...noted.

Well, that's disgusting. As athletes and people of importance in a community, they have a moral and ethical responsibility...They are professional athletes that represent a very prestigious and elite group that are admired and looked up upon by the average person.

GSI

I respect Deion's comments. Reading between the lines he is just saying this:

Dog Fighting is Bad.
Vick is wrong for being involved.
Everyone is not an animal lover.
People should be treated with the same passion as animals.
PETA is using this Vick to promote their agenda and are piling on without Vick being found guilty.


I think everyone should take a deep breath and let this thing play out in court.

bent09

iTrader: (1)

You can't be serious? Dog fighting is as much as a status symbol as a gold chain.

Since he "knows other that share his passion" he should tell the FEDs who.

GSI

Deion is simply trying to let you know the mentality of people like Vick. You have to read between the lines a little bit.

Let's hope that this controversy brings some much needed attention to pit bulls. I posted a thread a few months ago when my dad and son where rushed by one so I am not a big fan of the breed. I simply hate how all of these special interest groups are piling on because of Vicks celebrity status. everyone

jupitersolo

Cock fighting is the same way, (remember little Jerry?).

sonnyg80

wow, what fuckin idiots defending dog fighting

Russdaddy

Couldn't agree with you more on that.

What baffles me is that I don't remember Rae Carruth getting as much coverage as Vick. Now here is a guy that should be taken behind a barn and given a bang between the eyes for planning & participating in the shooting death of his pregnant girlfriend.

While I don't doubt for a second that Vick was involved in dogfighting, I refuse to put him in the scum of the earth bracket. Dogfighting has existed for many centuries and PETA and the Humane society all of the sudden wants to make him the poster boy for this illegal activity. Gimmie a break.

lowpost

On a genereal level, I don't agree with that. professinal athletes are people who get paid to play a sport they're good at - nothing more, nothing less. I think while this country as a culture has placed atheltes on pedestals as heroes, that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. I respect and commend athletes who having importnat thngs to say, who contribute to their communities, who WANT to be role models. but I don't expect it of them. Especially when many of todays atheltes are all about the money and not some higher calling. Disappointing? Maybe. Does this make them disgusting people? Not in my book. To say that any kid, regardless of where their from, who can play a little ball and is getting paid to do so suddenly has more of a responsability to society than you or I doesn't make sense to me.

lowpost

I agree. My thoughts on this are:

1. Yes Dog fighting is bad. Abusing animals is bad. Yes Vick is porbably guilty - 95% guitly. But I'll give hime the benefit of the 5% for now. Why? Becasue it never ceases to amaze me how often the police, prosecutors, attorneys, and the public think they know everytings there si to know about a case to hang someone, only to find out they were all wrong. Maybe it's my genereal distrust of the justice system, but there's a reason why case after case of innocent people in jail are released once they've been confirmed innocent - and to the man the persons involved were 100% sure they had the right person. I'm just saying you never know.
2. I will always value human life over an animals life - sounds cruel but I pose a question. If you had to choose between your pet's life and a family member's life, who do you pick? I only bring that up becasue I've seen more outrage over this than any armed robbery/beating/murder over the past number of years. Sure the manner in whihc the dogs were treated and killed was cruel. But the public seems to have a more emotional connection to the dogs, than when the local 7-11 clerk's been shot and murdered around the corner. Or when the neighbor's husband starts beating her again. The genereal attitude there is "well that's too bad, but I'm glad it's not my family". Maybe we're just numb to the other things, and this is a new thing for bandwagon people to jump on. But I don't know - priorities seem screwed up to me.
3. And while I think Vick should be punished if he's found guilty, the penalty seems excessive to me. Never mind the fact that I would rather have my government going after murderes, child molestors, and other scum who have ruined other peoples lives.
4. I genereally think PETA and animal rights activitst are all a bunch of idiots so I can't take any of them seriously.

Scottman111

Deion


The way I see it is... If you break the rules, you must face the consequences. If Vick is guilty, he brought all of this upon himself and will get no sympathy from me.


I feel the exact same way about Pete Rose not being in the Hall Of Fame (and I'm a born and raised Reds fan).

My point is, Vick is old enough to make his own decisions and he should be held responsible for his actions. I feel the same about anyone that breaks the law, whether it's a famous person like Vick or some bum on street.


And for the record, I hate PETA with a passion.

bent09

iTrader: (1)

Who cares if they are making a poster boy out of Vick. They should. Hell yeah this case is getting a lot of attension because HE IS A STARTING QB IN THE NFL WHO MAKES 130 MILLION DOLLARS AND ANOTHER 50 MIL IN ENDOURCEMENTS. If it brings more attension to this "sport" then talk about it all day.

I don't get the more passion for man then man's best friend take at all. Does everyone think if Vick killed 1 person the media would not be going nuts?

The Rae case got all sorts of coverage especially in NC and no one knew who he was!

Yumcha

But see...that's you. The minute an athlete reaches the pro ranks and has some level of achievement, he'll have followers and fans. Children are one those in that group...Can you imagine a 6 year-old who loves dogs and whose favourite team is Atlanta and player is Vick...?

Try explaining this to him as he's trying to understand how the guy he has a jersey and multiple posters of in his room particpates in a sport where the purpose is to watch two dogs kill each other by ripping each other's throats out.

bent09

iTrader: (1)

Or money that the kid has worked hard to earned all to buy his shoes (which he makes millions on).

I understand parents are role models but if your going to make 130 million dollars and want my kid to buy "your" products then you have got to avoid fighting dogs to the death.

Hate to jump back on Deion's comments but he does not understand what dog fighting is. The dogs are machines not animals. You don't love your fighting dog as for my experiences around it. Vick was into "gaming" dogs. The ones that weren't "game" he soaked them with water and electricuted them, shotgunned them in the head, burned them, strangled them, and on several occations BEAT THEIR HEAD INTO THE CONCRETE BY HAND.

lowpost

Yumchah, I purposely said "on a genereal level" for a reason becasue i wasn't commenting specifcally aboiut Vick. You stated that atheletes have a higher moral or ethical social responsability. I don't generally agree becasue I think there are dinstinctions in wheter we are talking about criminal activity, doing community service, or smiling and dancing for the genereal public. Is there a higher obligation to do the later 2 things - I don't believe so but there are many opinions on this. On criminnal activity, I see even more dinsticntions. Should an athlete have an obligation to not break the law, more so than the average person? That's an unrealistic expectation, but it also depends on the crime. Dog fighting is avoidable, so yes Vick has an obligation to the public to avoid something like this. Having crack and loaded fully automatic rifels in the rtunk is also avoidable. However, If an athlete commits murder or beats his gf/wife, did he have an obligation to the public to avoid this crime, more so than the average citizen? Probably not becasue these types of crimes are emotional based and noone, whether they are an athelte, a CEO of a company, or the cashier at teh gas station is considering their role model status when these crimes are committed. They're porbably not thinking much at all.

Yumcha

Well...I still believe athletes have a higher moral/ethical social responsibility. Now, I'm not saying that's how it SHOULD be...but, it is what it is. They are paid an exorbitant amount of money to play. They represent a large community/country and the history behind the franchise.

Sure, above all, they are expected to perform on the field and execute. That is their job. But, outside of it, given their exposure and social status (not because they can help it as it is how they are viewed upon by most people), they need to be hold themselves accountable and to a higher standard.

jsong83

ive skimmed over this topic and this guy makes the most sense. what happened to innocent until guilty? i understand if PETA and humane society wants to target him but damn, wait until the jury deliberates and comes to a conclusion. i love dogs and dog fighting is sick but the trial hasn't even started. if there is some evidence that comes to conclude that vick is innocent, all those idiots advocating vick's indictment will look like jesse jackson and that other idiot that supported mike nifongs prosecution in the duke lacrosse case.

PEOPLE, THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS IN THIS WORLD WORSE THAN DOG FIGHTING. now, i am not supporting vick. i just wish the media (espn specifically) and people would wait until the trial ends to judge him.

on the other hand, i would like to be the first one to openly bitch slap mike vick if he is found guilty because that would be the stupidiest career ending crime in the history of the sports world.

jsong83

im guessing you dont know about how vick goes back to his old neighborhood and donates bookbags and school supplies as well as donate a lot of money to his old boys and girls club to help keep kids off the street. id say that is holding themselves accountable and to a higher standard.

people are so quick to judge before they know anything. in the american public eye, you have to be perfect in order not to be judged. and yet even if you are perfect, there will always be haters and hypocrites. (not you specifically)

Yumcha

Dude...I'm not a hater of Vick (he was a good player although I always had my reservations about him as a QB capable of leading the Falcons to the promised land), but let me say this to your comment: Doing a some nice things to your old neighborhood does not equate you to getting a free pass for being seriously involved in a case such (severe cruelty to animals) what is now against him.

And have you read about how this has affected Arthur Blank? The guy who was 110% behind Vick is not hiding to save his face right now but is heartbroken given the evidence stacked against his franchise player. This is not a pile-on for the sake of a large majority wanting to hate someone IMO...

Do not forget that the details of his indictment is long and extremely detailed. He may not have been proven guilty yet but the stuff presented (and the Feds are pretty sure about this in order to submit it in even) is almost a likelihood that jail-time is in his foreseeable future.

bent09

iTrader: (1)

he donated supplies to his boys and girls club as a tax write off so its ok for him to fight pits....

NetEditor

Yes, you and everyone who says innocent until proven guilty are correct. But this occurred on HIS property. That is NOT in dispute. His defense is that he didn't know it was going on. While his criminal status is yet to be determined, as a football fan, it no longer matters if he's convicted.

And, on another note:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...s143426D98.DTL

lowpost

I don't know what that has to do with anything - if he didn't know what was going on. Just becasue he owns the house doesn't mean he lives there. Didn't he buy it for his relatives? If you rent out a house to someone and they open a crack house without you knowing, are you liable for that?

NetEditor

From a criminal standpoint, that's debatable. I'm talking about as a football fan.

NetEditor

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2952092

I think someone is about to turn against Vick.

Russdaddy

How come this doesn't surprise me? But then again, maybe that someone won't testify against Vick. He may have just decided to fall on his own sword. We'll just have to wait and see.......

Russdaddy

I didn't know who "Rae Rae" was at first. But I sure remember keeping tabs on the douchebag because I was truly disgusted by his actions. He got NOWHERE near the coverage that the media is giving Vick. Who cares if he wasn't as popular as Vick? He took a human life because he simply didn't wanna pay child support.

PETA and the Humane society folks concern me because I believe that if they completely had their way with this society, I wouldn't be shocked if there were folks on death row or doing life without parole for participating in dogfighting or other acts of animal cruelty. PETA are the same bunch of folks that support stem cell research but are against research on animals to find cures for diseases such as AIDS, cancer, etc. See something strange here?

PETA is also backing Pamela Anderson's crusade against KFC because of how they process chickens. My bad, I didn't know that you're supposed to slaughter chickens in a "humane" way. Next thing you know they'll be knocking on my door telling me I can't fish on my day off.

Just because Vick knows how to outrun alot of defensive players, has "decent" passing skills and a lucrative salary does not make him someone to look up to for character. He is not a leader. He doesn't influence my vote. He doesn't inspire me to obey the law and pay my taxes. He's simply an athlete that's good enough at his craft to get a very nice paycheck. Anything positive that he gives back to the community or contributes to is his way of saying thank you to society. At no time is it mandatory.

But no matter what the outcome is, Vick won't be able to shake this for years. Ray Lewis had a better chance than he'll ever have for sure. Score one for PETA.

GSI

GSI

OK here is another animal abuse case for PETA. Sack Mr. Nguyen, Sack Mr. Nguyen, Sack Mr. Nguyen!!!