x2lacrosse

What are some recommendations on the change interval for a car that's usually driven about 3 thousand miles (at the most) a year? Does engine oil stop protecting after a certain amount of time, regardless of mileage? Up 'til now, I've been doing it twice a year; once before each hot and cold season and independent of mileage driven on that batch of oil. But, I don't want to consume any more oil than I absolutely have to, so just wanted some advice on this.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

owner's manual will state oil changes be done by MID or 1 yr whichever comes first.

dcmodels

Quote:

Originally Posted by x2lacrosse

What are some recommendations on the change interval for a car that's usually driven about 3 thousand miles (at the most) a year? Does engine oil stop protecting after a certain amount of time, regardless of mileage? Up 'til now, I've been doing it twice a year; once before each hot and cold season and independent of mileage driven on that batch of oil. But, I don't want to consume any more oil than I absolutely have to, so just wanted some advice on this.

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Is your 3K miles per year driven 10 miles at a time, or 100 miles at a time, and under what weather conditions? That matters. When you change the oil at 6-month intervals, what oil percentage-life-remaining does the MID (multi-information display) show? Is there oil-life remaining, or not? The information that you have provided is not sufficient to give any valid response.

I do know the conditions under which I drive my own vehicle, as you will know the conditions under which you drive your own vehicle. Your own specific driving conditions should be considered in any OCI (oil change interval) decision that you make.

So I will guess at what you are really asking, and respond with the recommendations from various vehicle manufacturers, and the recommendations of Exxon-Mobil who manufacturers the original oil required for the RDX.

Opinions from anyone other than a vehicle or oil manufacturer has no value at all, in my opinion. And yes, I do understand that vehicle and oil manufacturers have their own skewed point-of-views, to sell you more of their own products.


SHORT ANSWER:
Acura thinks that the MID is capable of determining whether you are driving under ‘normal’ or ‘severe’ conditions, and the MID tells you when to change the oil accordingly, or at a minimum of once per year. And if you think that the OCI (oil change interval) seems too short (or long), the MID is possibly considering conditions that you are not. But you probably already knew that before asking your question.

I would not be surprised to learn that the MID algorithm in the RDX was determined more by the desires of the Acura marketing department, than by the requirements of the engineers who designed the RDX engine. In other words, maybe the car manufacturer has simply decided to push-off vehicle maintenance costs as long as possible, to get you to buy their car. And if the vehicle must be replaced at 100K instead of 200K miles, well, it did last well beyond the length of the warranty and it increases the opportunity to sell another new vehicle.

So I understand why you might be asking your questions. I gathered the information below, in an attempt to answer my own questions.

Here are two links where I have responded to questions similar to yours, my responses being based upon the recommendations of vehicle manufacturers and Exxon-Mobil, which are included below.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=854292
QUESTION: to[o] many oil changes
MY RESPONSE in posts #15 and #18

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=681881
QUESTION: Too frequent oil change for Acura RDX
MY RESPONSE in post #13


WHAT EXXON-MOBIL SAYS ABOUT REGULAR ENGINE OIL CHANGES:

Quote:

Originally Posted by x2lacrosse

… Does engine oil stop protecting after a certain amount of time, regardless of mileage? …

The following is cut-and-pasted from the Mobil-oil web site FAQ pages, emphasis added by myself.

FAQ: Why do you have to change your motor oil on a regular basis?
Motor oil breaks down over time. When it breaks down, it loses its effectiveness and can no longer properly protect your engine.

In addition to lubricating an engine's moving parts, motor oil is designed to carry combustion by-products away from the pistons and cylinders. It is designed to deal with the small amounts of water that form as the engine heats and cools, and to collect the dirt and dust that enter the engine through the air-intake system. It also handles acids that are formed by the reaction between water and other contaminants. Sometimes there are even fuel leaks (fuel dilution) or coolant leaks that get into the oil system.

As a car is driven, the level of contamination in the motor oil constantly increases. The oil filter removes particles as the oil passes through the filter, but over time an oil's additives are used up and the oil itself can start to degrade (oxidize or thicken). At that point, the oil can no longer do its job and must be changed.

The rate at which contamination and additive depletion occurs depends on many variables. One of these is driving conditions, which vary greatly and have a direct effect on the useful life of the oil. Other factors include the precision of ignition, fuel injection or carburetion adjustments, air cleaner service and the general mechanical condition of the engine.

Oil should be changed before the contamination level reaches the point where engine damage can result. Because it is difficult for the individual motorist to determine when the contamination level is too high, automobile manufacturers provide recommended oil change intervals. These change recommendations vary by model year and manufacturer. Recommended intervals and mileage limits also vary with the type of service under which a car operates. More frequent oil changes are recommended for severe service.


AN OIL CHANGE INTERVAL OPTIMIZED FOR MINIMAL OIL USAGE:
I am going to assume that your question here is to be taken literally. While my response may seem quixotic or flippant, it is actually sincere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by x2lacrosse

… But, I don't want to consume any more oil than I absolutely have to, so just wanted some advice on this.

So unless you plan to keep your vehicle longer than the average person does, why change the oil at all, ever? Which is the better use of world resources, limited use of oil and early replacement of the vehicle, or an occasional oil change and increased vehicle life? The RDX MID seems like a valid indicator of the appropriate compromise.

A friend of mine once owned a ’66 Goat (1966 Pontiac GTO). He literally never changed the oil, just added oil as required. It was sold, still running just fine, at 80K miles to purchase another new vehicle. As to why an engineer would treat his vehicle in such a manner, my simple response is that at 22 years old his attention was divided 10% with keeping his job and 90% with female persons (certainly no attention or time left over for his car).

People who do not have their engine oil replaced at appropriate intervals, is not uncommon, but I just always think of my friend who owned the GTO, whenever someone inquires about not following the vehicle manufacturer’s recommended OCI.


MOBIL-1 EXTENDED PERFORMANCE OIL CAN BE USED FOR 1-YEAR:
Really? Can it really? Why, it says so right on the bottle label. You could use that oil in your RDX for yearly instead of twice-yearly oil changes. Here is what Exxon-Mobil says about that oil, on the Mobil-oil web site FAQs page, my own emphasis added.

FAQ: If Mobil 1 Extended Performance is recommended for 15,000-mile intervals, what’s the maximum limit to which it can be pushed? In other words, if a driver goes an extra 1,000 miles or so, is he going to damage his engine?
Mobil 1 Extended Performance is recommended for up to 15,000-miles or one-year oil change intervals, whichever occurs first. However, if your vehicle manufacturer recommends an oil change interval beyond 15,000 miles and Mobil 1 Extended Performance meets the performance level specified, you can be assured that Mobil 1 Extended Performance will go the distance.

FAQ: Do I need to flush my engine before switching to Mobil 1 Extended Performance?
You do not need to flush your engine prior to changing to Mobil 1 Extended Performance.

FAQ: Upon what driving conditions are these performance claims based? Normal or severe driving conditions?
These claims relate to all typical consumer driving conditions, excluding those mentioned below. In other words, if you drive under normal conditions and use Mobil 1 Extended Performance in your vehicle, the oil is guaranteed to protect your engine for 15,000 miles.

We also recommend that drivers consult their owner’s manual while their vehicle is under warranty, and follow the guidelines set forth there. Additionally, we recommend that if consumers drive routinely in severe conditions that they follow the oil change interval recommended in their owner's manual for severe conditions. We define "severe conditions" as:

Ø racing or commercial applications;
Ø frequent towing or hauling;
Ø extremely dusty or dirty conditions; or
Ø excessive idling [DCmodels edit: (such as frequent driving in stop-and-go traffic, as defined by GM)].


MY COMMENTS on MOBIL-1 EXTENDED PERFORMANCE OIL:
As seen above, Mobil will not state that Mobil-1 EP oil can be used for a longer period than that required by the car manufacturer, during the warranty period. Such is the (lack-of) confidence that Exxon-Mobil has in their own oil.

Of course, after your vehicle warranty expires, and you have no recourse against anyone but Exxon-Mobil, you can use the EP oil as long as you want. How successful do you think you will be suing Exxon-Mobil because you left the EP oil in your engine too long?

Besides, as Exxon-Mobil has stated above, if you drive your car under ‘severe-conditions’, then you must change the EP oil, using the OCI that the car manufacturer requires for severe-service. Severe service for the RDX, is determined by when the MID says to change the oil.

And you will see that what Exxon-Mobil considers severe-service (above), to be basically the same as what every car manufacturer does, as in the following examples.


GM’s DEFINITION OF SEVERE SERVICE, as stated in the 1998 Blazer Owner’s Manual:
If any one of the following conditions applies, then the service is considered severe. Let me say that again, it is not ALL of the following conditions combined, but only ONE of the following conditions, that determines severe service. Engine oil is to be changed every 3K miles or 3-months, whichever occurs first, for the Short Trip Maintenance Schedule/ severe service.

Follow the Short Trip/ City Maintenance Schedule if any one of these conditions is true for your vehicle:
Ø Most trips are less than 5 to 10 miles. This is particularly important when outside temperatures are below freezing.
Ø Most trips include extensive idling (such as frequent driving in stop-and-go traffic).
Ø You operate your vehicle in dusty areas or off-road frequently.
Ø You frequently tow a trailer or use a carrier on top of your vehicle.
Ø If the vehicle is used for delivery service, police, taxi or other commercial application.


GM’s DEFINITION OF SEVERE SERVICE, as stated in the 2001 Camaro Owner’s Manual:
The 2001 Chevy Camaro had a MID to determine oil change intervals. But, the following is also stated in the Owner’s Manual.

The system won’t detect dust in the oil. So if you drive in a dusty area, be sure to change your oil and filter every 3,000 miles or sooner if the OIL CHANGE light appears.

Note that the RDX owner manual does not make a similar suggestion for early oil changes, although there is a suggestion to change both the engine air filter and the cabin air filter when driving under dusty conditions, or in areas of high soot from industrial sources and diesel vehicles. Personally, I think early oil changes under such conditions are warranted, at least under very dusty conditions. But then, I live where there are actually normal dust storms and range fires every summer. I wonder if any Japanese engineer has ever seen/ experienced either one?


JEEP FSM (factory service manual) DEFINITION OF SEVERE SERVICE:
If any one of the following conditions applies, then the service is considered severe. Let me say that again, it is not ALL of the following conditions combined, but only ONE of the following conditions, that determines severe service.

I find the use-condition of Ethanol interesting, since it is currently almost impossible to purchase gasoline that does not contain ethanol. That effectively means that there is no non-severe service definition for this model of Jeep. Sorry, I do not remember which year and model for which this information was printed, but it was before the current models which use some sort of automated OCI indicator like the RDX.

Ø Temperature below 32 degrees
Ø Stop and go driving - extensive idling
Ø Dusty conditions
Ø Short trips under 10 miles
Ø More than 50% of driving at temperatures above 90 degrees
Ø Snow plowing or towing or police use
Ø Or using ethanol fuels


WHAT DOES EXXON-MOBIL SAY ABOUT THE USE OF MOBIL SYNTHETIC OILS UNDER SEVERE SERVICE?
Please note that when asked directly if a person can ignore the severe-service OCI stated in their Owner’s Manual, Exxon-Mobil has not answered. Exxon-Mobil has not stated that the severe service OCI can be extended when using Mobil oil, even when using their fully synthetic oil. If you search the Mobil web site, you can find other examples of this question, in different words, and again Mobil has not answered, but deflected or simply ignored the question, as here:

FAQ: Should I follow the "severe" service oil change intervals mentioned in my owner's manual? Does Mobil 1 offer specific benefits under these conditions?
Many kinds of driving conditions qualify your vehicle for severe service oil change intervals, and Mobil 1 is ideal for this service. Severe service conditions can include, among other things:
Ø Trips of less than 10 miles
Ø Driving in cold weather
Ø Idling for extended periods
Ø Stop-and-go traffic
Ø Pulling trailers/carrying heavy loads
Ø Driving in dusty conditions

Under both normal and severe service conditions, Mobil 1 is engineered to provide performance reserves in the areas of sludge prevention, piston cleanliness, wear protection, and high-temperature durability.


SO WHAT OCI DO I USE IN MY OWN CURRENT VEHICLES?
I suppose it is only fair after all of the above, that I indicate my own decisions concerning oil change intervals for my current vehicles. Both my vehicles are (and have always been) operated under severe-service conditions, as defined in the examples above. Both vehicles are driven under not one, but all of the various severe service conditions listed above, except for the towing and commercial service.

Please consider that the following OCI are optimized for maximum engine life, unlike some previous vehicles I have owned, and previous decisions I have made. I really wanted to use an extended OCI but decided that in order to optimize engine life, based upon the information given above, that I could not do so, no matter which oil was used.

1998 Chevy 4x4 Blazer,
Mobil-1 5W30 synthetic oil changed every 4 months, at approximately 2K miles, using either an ACdelco Gold filter or Mobil-1 oil filter. Non-synthetic 5W30 oil is specified for this vehicle. Yearly mileage is about 6K miles, and current total mileage is 112K miles. The OM (owner manual) requires a 3K or 3-month OCI for severe service. Mobil-1 oil has been used only for the past 1-year. Before that time, Chevy dealer 10W30 bulk oil and a standard ACdelco filter (I presume) were used with an OCI of 3-months or 3K miles, under all driving conditions. This vehicle has been owned since 15K miles.

2009 Acura RDX,
Mobil-1 5W30 Extended Performance synthetic oil changed every 3 months or 2K miles or at either 60% or 10-15% MID, whichever occurs first. Either a Mobil-1 oil filter or K&N oil filter is used. The MID triggers at 15% approximately every 3.6K miles, and is reset every-other oil-change. Yearly mileage is about 8K miles, and current total mileage is 27K miles. This vehicle has been owned since new.
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