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I bought a lowish miles (36k) 2004 Suzuka almost a month ago in NC and had it shipped to me here in Ohio. I received it a couple of weeks ago and immediately put it in storage. It’s not perfect cosmetically as it appears it was an “outside” car in a coastal area, but it’s mechanically sound, underbody was not rusted, PPI revealed no surprise issues, and price was halfway decent for the market. Like everybody else buying nowadays, I wish I’d bought two years ago and saved $10k.
This actually started as a search for a 996 or 997 Turbo or GT3 last summer. After lots of help from @KaMLuNg on the 911 front, I decided that prices were simply too crazy. There are so many 911s that prices will eventually calm down other than for the most special ones. In the meantime, I started looking heavily at S2000s again, as I had always planned to add another one. Even with the price increases, they are still reasonably priced compared to what's happening in Porsche-land, but Honda isn't making any more and they will likely continue to appreciate. It ultimately came between this car and a 25k mile Laguna 2006 with a rear bumper accident. I decided on the 10-VIN, no accident car. This time, I wanted an AP2 to satisfy my “something different” itch. I paid for a PPI and it checked out, so I paid.
I plan a modest build with white wheels, Tanabe (or whatever they call themselves now) Medalion Touring exhaust which I had on my last S, and maybe a Forbidden Mugen rep top. Need new tires first as The car came with 7-year-old all-season tires. We all know what a stock Suzuka looks like, so I didn’t attach a billion pics.
The best part of buying a S2000 for me is that I can do so while keeping my NSX and CTS-V wagon. Now my biggest problem is trying to figure a way to get a lift into my garage as I guess I'm a "collector" now
i have heard the AP2's burn LESS oil, but its a common thing on the s2k's. also i heard the drive by wire motors in the newer models are less modd friendly.
-both of those are just hear-say things. i have no personal experience with them. i just happened to read a lot about those topics when i was shopping for one.
Any other specifics? Immaculate paint and interior or what? How does it drive? It seems like a pretty good deal, some AP1s with more mileage than that cost $19k.
13k miles for 19k? Fuck...if he doesn't take it I will...
However, I heard the same thing about the Drive-By-Wire being less mod friendly, so if thats the route hes thinking about going it might be smart to get the AP1. Plus, like others have said, the AP1 has a higher redline. I think the 06+ have VSA though, not sure about the older ones....might help out in Chicago.
Last edited by FiveLiterCheater; 02-18-2008 at 06:56 PM.
Depends what you want the car for, yes the AP1 revs higher but for around town driving its harder to enjoy because it has less low end torque. From a modding stand point maybe the DBW is less attractive, but from a driving perspective its not detectable, it was very well implemented. Unless your planning on going with FI, basing the purchase on mods is foolish. AP1's all have the same 16" wheels, there are a few different 17" wheels that were used on AP2's - there must have been some alignment change because AP1's are more known to chew through tires then AP2's. I can easily see liking both, but for different reasons, if it was a weekend/nice weather car I would probably lean towards an early(tail happy) AP1. As my only car I would want 06+, even though they have made the car more neutral over the years its still very sketchy at its limit and VSA can be a life saver in cold or wet weather.
AP1
pros:
-9k redline
-more "pure" of a drivers car, more tail happy
-easier and cheaper to mod, but still not much for easy gains
cons:
-early AP1's are very tail happy
-dated, cramped interior
-less attractive headlights
AP2
pros:
-more usable power for driving around town
-updated interior
-more balanced, neutral handling
cons:
-8k redline
He found an 04 with 13k miles for $19k. Is that a good deal?
Good deal... Low mileage AP2's like that usually go for low $20's...
AP2 is 2004 and up...
Sweet spot for the S2000 seems to be the 02-05 IMHO... like the others have said, it's a toss up between a ap1 and ap2... but any s2k from 2005 on back can be had pretty cheaply.
Srika posted a nice break down of the issue by model year:
S2000's are pretty reliable, here's a rundown of the model years:
'00-'01 plastic rear window, radio not so good, some had tranny issues
'02-'03 updated w/ glass rear window, slight tweaks to taillights, better radio, no known issues with the car
'04-'05 updated 2.2L motor 8,000rpm, different front/rear facias, clutch delay valve to prevent clutch drop (can be disabled after couple hours of wrenching), 17" wheels
'06-'07 updated ECU, drive by wire, addition of traction control, new seats w/ speakers in the roll bar, radio is better, polished wheels with slightly different look
I think there's a Hondata reflash for the AP2 which raises redline to 8600. Above that its not very safe due to the increased stroke for the F22. Its either Hondata or some other company like that, I read it on s2ki a while ago.
Oh and its Suzuka Blue hes looking at? Kinad girly color, no?
Yeah, but that's only my opinion... I like Laguna Blue Pearl much better (2006 and up??), but that's me... Sarlacc likes suzuka blue, but he's a big gay girly black man
Yeah, but that's only my opinion... I like Laguna Blue Pearl much better (2006 and up??), but that's me... Sarlacc likes suzuka blue, but he's a big gay girly black man
AP2 is where I would go, almost did before I bought the 968.
Updated interior, much less tail happy, 17" wheels are stock, better low end and midrange.
9000 rpm redlines are all well and good, but Motor Trend did a 0-60 with an AP1 back in the day shifting at 5,500rpm. It took 10 seconds.
Food for thought.
It all depends on the person. I couldn't afford an AP1, so an AP2 was definitely out of my range. It gets to 9000 pretty quickly anyway, and its too much fun getting there.
My Z28 redlines at 6000rpm, and even though it doesn't exactly have a "tame" cam profile for street driving, I think if I shifted at 3500rpm it would take quite a while to get to 60 too.
Well, maybe not 10 seconds, but it would take a while. Plus wouldn't 5500rpm be right under the VTEC engagement threshold, meaning the engine doesn't even use its full potential?
Another thing worth mentioning about ownership, make sure you have good insurance. Seat theft is all to common, and often will total a car, seats are over $4k each from the dealership and usually they slice your top open to get them, which also will need replacement, in addition to anything else the screw up trying to get them. Most seat thefts result in $12-15K in damage. This is a huge problem in Florida, Cali and all other major metropolitan areas, not so common in the 'burbs.
Another thing worth mentioning about ownership, make sure you have good insurance. Seat theft is all to common, and often will total a car, seats are over $4k each from the dealership and usually they slice your top open to get them, which also will need replacement, in addition to anything else the screw up trying to get them. Most seat thefts result in $12-15K in damage. This is a huge problem in Florida, Cali and all other major metropolitan areas, not so common in the 'burbs.
Buy a hardtop! Looks great too.... and yes it is expensive, but I think its worth it.
I like the look, but if I wanted a hardtop I would have bought a different car, I know it can come off but I like a roadster to be a roadster. I live in a nice neighborhood, the car is always garaged, so I don't worry about it, but its worth mentioning.
If the insurance company totals the car a lot of guys buy it back, fix the top and buy aftermarket seats for a fraction of the cost and pocket the difference - you can get a bad ass aftermarket seat for $2k
It all depends on the person. I couldn't afford an AP1, so an AP2 was definitely out of my range. It gets to 9000 pretty quickly anyway, and its too much fun getting there.
My Z28 redlines at 6000rpm, and even though it doesn't exactly have a "tame" cam profile for street driving, I think if I shifted at 3500rpm it would take quite a while to get to 60 too.
Well, maybe not 10 seconds, but it would take a while. Plus wouldn't 5500rpm be right under the VTEC engagement threshold, meaning the engine doesn't even use its full potential?
Yes indeed, all very much true as well. Very much agree that it depends on the individual tastes. On a side note, I guarantee the Motor Trend hacks planned it exactly that way....
I once tried to drive my '88 Mustang 5.0 Police Interceptor for an entire month shifting before 2000 rpm. I made it about a week, still jumped along at a pretty good clip.
Does Vtec engage at the same RPM on the AP1 and AP2? Or does the AP2 kick in sooner?
6k for both
I drive an 04.
I would tell your friend to go for it as long as there were no issues with the car itself. I use mine as a daily driver. I've had it for 4.5 years now and I still have as much fun today as I did when I first bought the car.
Maybe gears they are the best bang for the buck, but it means your turning even higher RPM's when cruising on the highway, currently my AP2 is 3k RPM's at 55 and 4k at 75, I wouldn't want it to be any higher.
Unless you want to go FI there is no easy power, most intakes lose power, headers on a stock AP2 do nothing. Hondata's reflash increases redline, and lowers VTEC engagement when it senses WOT, which creates more power in the midrange, but generates no more peak HP or torque. Hondata offers a different reflash for those with a header which has better gains, but it is not safe to use on a car without a header.
The only thing I am doing to my car is a basic stereo upgrade, the factory system is really terrible.
If this is going to be a track dedicated car....learn to drive it stock for a little bit. Once you get to know the car, then start in the with the mods.
You start modding right away and you are going to be racing in a class with drivers that will mop the floor with you.
02-18-2008, 05:19 PM
There really isn't an S2000 color I don't like though. I will agree that LBP is mucch better though.
I couldn't afford an AP1, so an AP2 was definitely out of my range. It gets to 9000 pretty quickly anyway, and its too much fun getting there.
