chrsil

Hi guys,

Hopefully you can assist me before taking my car to have the trans fluid replaced.
My tl has about 130k right now, I bought it when it had 80k and I never changed the transmission oil before on it and I'm not sure if the previous owner too. By now I'm guessing is dirty and needs to be replaced. I have been reading other forums where changing after a long time it might cause issues with the transmission. Is this true? I was also thinking taking it to the dealer instead, is that worth it? or any place should be fine?

Any recommendations?

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Chris

3.2TLc

Welcome Chrsil !!!
If you're not experiencing any issues, replacing the tranny's fluid is good PM. You can do the Drain & Fill process,to replace about 3 quarts of the old fluid at a time by removing the tranny pan's drain plug. Most folks will recommend performing the 3x3 D&F using only Honda DW1 fluid. But, you could do a single 1x3 now and do the other 2 at your convenience to better acclimate the new fluid.

This is a relatively straight-forward simple "DIY" procedure. Buy a full case of DW1 fluid at your local Honda parts dept. Ask for a discount. Also consider replacing the spin-on ATF filter located near the fill bolt on top of the tranny. Clean fluid is very beneficial to keeping our 2nd Gen trannys healthy.

The only time that you may need to be concerned about potentially causing issues with replacing the fluid is when there is obvious pre-existing problems with erratic shifting. Sometimes, replacing the old dirty fluid will occasionally shock the worn tranny ..... but, if it's that far along.....nothing will help except replacing the tranny with a donor "AV6".

Check out the "DIY" sticky and previous related threads for more info on the D&F.

03blackbeast

I've heard from alot of reputable people here that you can feel free to use the DW-1 or the Valvoline Maxlife. The Valvoline is formulated for a higher mileage transmission and may be a better fit in the end but you need to do a 3x3 because you don't want the fluid getting too mixed. A 3x3 is a good way to try and fix an erratic transmission though. I had those symptoms real bad and bought an extra 50K miles for my tranny with a fluid change. Then I replaced it with the AV6 and mine was original after 270K miles. Anyway it's all up to you. I would agree about the spin on filter. It's good PM. Pretty easy to do. Better to do it yourself and make sure it's done right than to get raped by someone else and have them jack up your car. Hope this helps!

01tl4tl

recent adventures in non Honda atf use by other ziners points to the reality of-
USE ONLY HONDA DW-1

are there any bolts on the transmission with BLUE PAINT on them?
- you can see with hood open,
Does your trans have the recall installed external oil jet kit on top of trans where filler hole is ?

TLZINE99

Good luck with that.

3.2TLc

^^^ Yeah, the general consensus with most all 2nd Gen Ziner's is to stick with Honda DW1.

01tl4tl

for those new to the board and TL, Honda used the same formula for decades
then realized their new high performance transmissions needed a better fluid and a better fluid changeout procedure, along with substantially reduced time between changes
the new fluid is DW-1 and its the new approved oil for our trans
Honda PS fluid is also some special secret sauce
the other fluids are your choice,,some insist on honda premix coolant too
figuring it was good the first time,,,,but its only good 5 years for replacement
any coolant should be changed by 5 years- its additives go bad

01tl4tl

call acura care and reg as new owner 1 800 382 2238 x5 gets a human
have VIN in hand, ask if all recalls are taken care of
that's why I ask about painted bolt heads (= warranty replaced unit)
and external oil jet installed under recall and very important!!

01tl4tl

the new acura procedure for new cars at dealer involves what we call- `the accord method` from youtube, running engine and shift trans thru all the gears while wheels are off the ground
changes out fluid fast!!!

for us, the dealer simply drains and refills 3 qts = ~half the 7.3 the trans holds

teggyturnedtl

NOOOOOOOOOOO dont use any other oil. HONDA DW-1 is the only oil to use. Im the dummy #4 post was talking about. My tranny went from shuddering between shifts to full on craziness. I used Castrol ZR-1 or something like that and it definitely got worse immediately. Also i did the 3 X 3 Properly and with every cycle and quick ride felt the tranny get better. By no means did this fix my initial problem but it definitely bought me some time. Do yourself a big favor and learn from my mistake and others who have used other oils. Dont do it! Good luck

03blackbeast

Now now guys, I've never used it myself. i'm just subject to hear-say. There are a few on here who have used it and wouldn't use anything else. I'm not one of them myself. I was just stating what I've read around the forum. As for me, I'll be sticking with the Honda special sauce forever. Got me to 270K on my first tranny and I'm planning to get another 100K at least out of my AV6.

TLer trash

If you've got a symptom-free, high mileage trans, the best way to keep it that way is to take baby steps. Change the fluid one time. Drive it 1,000 miles. If it stays the same, or gets better, change it again. If it starts to slip, or flare into gear, stop. Drive it another 1,000, and change it again if it improved. Do a total of 3 or 4 times, until clear and bright red, then once every 15,000 or so.
Most people here like the honda fluid, but I firmly believe in redline racing. It's worth reading the "redline racing trans fluid" thread. Other than that a lot of the other synthetics are good choices. I've used mobil 1, amsoil, and bg with good results.

01tl4tl

the only drawback to redline, and why I suggest normal drivers stay with Honda dw1
is that redline tends to shift harder-firmer, which is opposite of the TL luxury smoothness we expect from all parts of the car

If you're a racer that's just a normal shift feeling

teggyturnedtl

If what you say is true im wondering if that may keep our tranny lasting a bit longer. I remember when i had my tranny rebuilt a year and a half ago the shop showed me the clutch packs and how little surface grip or whatever you call it on the plate itself. He showed me the old and the new and on the old plates there was very little surface wear but enough for my tranny to fail. Im wondering if harder shifts would keep from wearing the surface so fast. If it shifts a little harder im fine with that as long as i know my tranny will last. Also i bought the type S for the extra power and sportiness of it so SOMEWHAT aggressive shifts i would expect. Just my thought if anybody knows the workings of our tranny's better im sure they would have excellent input. Fatty, 3.2TLc, and all you other knowledgeable guys, CHIME IN!

chris03tl

Soft luxurious shifts = friction (there is "slip" built into the shift so you dont feel it).
Friction = heat.
Heat = worn parts, burnt fluid, busted tranny

Harder shifts actually ARE better for the longevity of the transmission, but as 01 mentioned, harder shifts arent a trait of the TL. If you dont mind the harder shifts then Redline might be OK for you.

I (gasp) used MaxLife ATF in our Z1 spec transmission. Just wasnt comfortable cutting over to DW1 no matter how compatible Honda says it is. If the transmission died right after changing over to DW1, would Honda replace it for me? Highly doubt it.

MaxLife (like Redline) results in firmer shifts but nothing objectionable at all. And the fact that firmer shifts are easier on the wearable parts, Id rather deal with them than hoping DW1 holds up in a Z1 transmission.

chrsil

Thank you all for your suggestions. I will call the dealer and make sure they use HONDA DW-1 oil and hopefully they don't come back saying I need to replace some other parts :S, I put about 6k a year on this car.

3.2TLc

^^^ Ask the dealer what process they use when performing the tranny fluid replacement service. Also, find out if they do the complete 3x3 D&F. You probably could buy a case of DW1 fluid at your local Honda dealer and have any reputable mechanic do the service for ya. It's actually a very simple "DIY".

teggyturnedtl

So your saying use Maxlife? Im not 100% sure if that is what i used at first. i know it was in a black bottle by Castrol and said recommended for honda/acura ATF-Z1. Right after just putting in 3 quarts the tranny seemed like it needed and exorcism. I then used DW1 and between each 3 quarts of draining and filling, it smoothed out. currently i have to drive in D4 if it goes into 5th its pretty rough almost seems like im driving over rough terrain. Just need it to hold up one more week before i install the AV6

fsttyms1

But it will also reduce friction which reduces heat and wear

chris03tl

I use MaxLife. I have 12 qts of the Castrol stuff as well (it was on big sale at Advance Auto) but I plan on using it for my Nissan Frontier instead.

The MaxLife seems to be better for Honda/Acura, while the Castrol seems to be better for Nissan products. Both MaxLife and the Castrol product have the Z1 approval....the Castrol product also (supposedly, per the label) has DW1 approval as well.

I read enough people at BITOG forums that said MaxLife really made a good difference in their Honda products that I chose it over the Castrol. Luckily my generation Frontier doesnt really have a history of transmission issues so the Castrol should do just fine there.

01tl4tl

cant believe you need the dealer for a simple atf change, most charge 99$ for a single 3 qt manual drain and refill
Acura dealer will use dw-1 that's all they get from Honda for the TL series (honda may use something else in other new models = what do I know!)

unless you get the 200$+ `new method` they use for the new cars with engine running and trans in gear while on the lift - a `hot flush`= ALL new fluid goes in as old fluid goes out!
known to us as ` the accord method` as seen on youtube

chris03tl

On the TL, the drain/refill method for trans fluid change actually seems faster than changing the oil (since there is no filter)

I do a drain/refill every oil change now. Is it overkill? Most likely yes, but its good protection for the fragile transmission and since its so easy to do (and Im already under the car anyway) I dont see a reason not to.

The only issue I had was getting the drain and fill plugs open for the first time....ever since then I just make sure not to "gorilla tighten" them and its 1-2-3 job now.

-Chris

01tl4tl

torque is the same as oil drain plug = 29 foot pounds

3 qts atf change with engine oil change is going a long way to keep your trans healthy,
certainly better than 60-80kmiles before any change --like the average owner

it is faster to drain/refill , no filter to deal with normally-- except the external atf filter which doesn't require as frequent change but wont hurt to do at some point

3.2TLc

Hey Chris03tl, yeah.....a bit of overkill, IMO.
Why not just do the D & F every other oil change ? Unless ya really have reason to fear !!!

chris03tl

I only change the oil in the TL twice a year.

Put about 10K miles/year on it, so 3 years would be the 30K recommended "full drain and refill" (3x3).

If I change 3 quarts at every oil change, after 6 changes (30K worth of oil changes) I would have only a little extra "new fluid" in the transmission since it seems to take at least 12 qts to get close to a full replace with new fluid.

If I was using DW-1, then yeah I would do it as little as possible. But MaxLife was cheap enough (new packaging = big sale on the old packaging) that I dont mind using it up. In the grand scheme of things our TL has cost us so little that using 6 qts extra transmission fluid over 3 years is not a big deal at all.

I finally got around to fixing the motor mounts, and the thing is almost back to the way it was on day one....I cant feel it running at a stop light. Its given me more motivation to keep up the rest of the car, along with the fact that I look at whats out there in regards to new vehicles and Im impressed by almost none of it.

01tl4tl

many newer cars look like our baby!
it was ahead of its time in styling, easily maintained, and upgradeable enough in brakes and suspension to be dual purpose = daily driver and backroad-mountain fun-decent track day car
sidenote- our megamoderator fsttyms1 = fast times WON! 00 TL with 600,000+ MIles and going strong (not original trans lol)

850Cane

I searched for a thread about Redline Racing Transmission Fluid but nothing came up. Im going to do a drain and fill soon and was wondering if I could use it with my whatever the person who had the car before me put in it. I wouldn't mind the former shifts as long as my 02 TL type s with 197,000 transmission would last longer. I do not have the oil jet thing on mine. Thank you for any info guys!

Davius

If you are interested in gaining performance from any transmission fluid different from current, mixing it with the old fluid wouldn't help much. You might notice a difference so long as you drain and fill enough times to remove the old fluid. A 3x3 drain/fil will supposedly remove almost all the old fluid, but the manual says any DEXRON III will work, so I wouldn't worry too much about any diluted remnants. Personally, Honda Genuine works fine for me. The oil jet was the solution to Honda's flaw in these transmissions, so this one might be a ticking time bomb. While you're under the hood, you might want to change the screw-on transmission filter if you haven't recently. Maybe even check/clean the shift solenoid screens. Hopefully you can breathe some life back into that thing. Good Luck!