MadMat98tL

Failed my Inspection for clear turn signals on the front bumper. Fail emissions for EGR Insufficent flow.

I have known about the EGR for a few weeks. I have downloaded the 1996-1998 repair manual and it doesn;t have anything about cleaning the EGR.

I have been searching around for days at engine assembly's.

I need to clear this code so I can get and inspection. Does any one know where there is a good link to find out how to get off my intake manifold????

I removed the fuel rails and injectors cleared the manifold of all its screws and hoses near the firewall. But I can't get leverage to peel off the manifold.

PLease help.

-Mat

MadMat98tL

She's a First generation 98 3.2TL. I have only seen help on second generation engines and the accord v6. Thanks for any help

KrayzieDxC

how many miles is your car? if its under 150k ur still underwarranty..go to the dealer and they will clean it for u for free with some other stuff

meazz1

if you just clear the code, it will not pass.
You need fix the problem, reset the code and drive it for few hundred miles. Than do emission.

Search the thread, this topic was discussed.

01tl4tl

Have you gen 1 guys tried the Seafoam engine cleaner?
Works wonders at removing junk from intake and pistons
see 2nd gen forum for full detail on thread seafoamed the ol TL

KrayzieDxC

yea i tryed it..but my code never dissapear..its smoking and runs smooth..i think u should try bg cleaning i heard those are great also..i will try that one day when its warm

Go90go

We had a big discussion over on this side of the board, as well.

~Cheers~

MadMat98tL

The Emissions repair is not for the 98 3.2 tl I call the Acura service already. I have 197k on her i had an EGR cleaning by the dealership around 150K which i paid for. So i did check out whether or not there was an free service. I dont even know if the cleaning they did kept the CEL off very long.

No one has cleaned the EGR on a 1st Gen 3.2TL???!!!

It doesn't help me to see how the 2nd Generation EGR intake into the Manifold is cleaned becasue its a different manifold.

I know I can't just pull the battery and erase the CEL for a few miles before the Inspection. I'm tyring to fix the Problem. P0140

Ken1997TL

MadMat:

Try asking in a Legend forum, its the same engine.

Go90go

If you get a cool tech, he'll reset the code for you to pass, then let you go fix it on another day, .

~Cheers~

MadMat98tL

I can clear the code with the unit and it will not be registered on the computer that the inspection station uses? I was told that they can tell if it has been reset and requires a certain amount of driving, before they can read it again.

Are you certain you can pass the inspection that way?

Has anyone tried that before?

Thank you Ken.. didn't know that the legend had the same engine.

Is that the only car with the same engine and what model years have this same engine?

Guess i have to try to remove the EGR & pipe without removing the manifold, which i read is a pain, especially in the damn winter, in New England.

MadMat98tL

BTW, go90Go I have the same front end, simple white lens, Dead sexy..

Go90go

We did it on my m8's Accord V6. Same code, and it was reset right before putting it on the dyno for smog. Immediately after he passed and drove a block away, the CEL came back on, hehe.

My car looks a little different now...



~Cheers~

teekay3001

clean car man...

Go90go

Thanks, m8. Oh and I took off the MOMOs last night, the Potenzas on them were BALD... Too many burnouts and parking lot drifts... No trays, btw. Any unfortunately, my m8 hit his head on one of my rain guards so I've got to re-apply some double-sided tape...

~Cheers~

Mandy

The grille, what is that? Where did you get that?

dl2000

Mat, you're in luck! I just cleaned it and boy was there alot of shit in there!

I had the same problem code P401, insuff flow. I bought the acura manual and studied it word for word.

I didn't take any pics but I know exactly what step you're at. So, you disconnected everything....fuel rails, egr, egr pipe near firewall, throttle body, etc.

Now you probably unbolted the 8 bolts that holds the top intake manifold to the rest of the manifold and that didn't budge right???? I did the same thing and pound the hell out of it and that didn't do. Well stop before you break something, it will not come off. There are more bolts from the bottom of the intake manifold, which you can't get to, therefore, you'll have to remove the whole unit.

Here's how to do it! Unbolt the 4 bolts that hold the water pipe on top front of the intake mainfold-- that is the key! Also, make sure your egr pipe is disconnectd. Then give the intake manifold a hard jiggle, then presto, it should slide up and off. You'll be removing the whole unit.

Once removed, give that baby a kiss and hug. Then you can get to the bolts below the intake manifold. Important.---The bolt underneath are of differnt lengths -- mark them with tape. You can take the whole manifold apart and clean the hell out of it with cleaner.....get 4 cans of throttle body cleaner. You'll see the the little hole from the egr pipe to the intake manifold completey clogged, clean everything you see.

Your gasket will most likely need to be replaced. I replaced both upper and lower instake gaskets, egr plate gasket, egr pipe gasket on both ends, egr gasket. Also, the water pipe has a o-ring on the collar -- replaced that too.

After all that and 6 hrs later, I put it back together and my car gets much better gas mileage and best of all ...no MIL light.


Good Luck. If you have additional questions, let me know. I'd give better details but I'm at work on company time.

Cheers.

MadMat98tL

dl2000,

Thanks for the reply. I had the car sitting for two days with every thing apart, trying to figure out how to proceed. Decided to reconnect everything so that I wouldn;t forget how everything went back together. She fired up and i let her idle for half and hour.

It just snowed, so for me the option of taking another shot at the intake removal is "out.... cold". ha

You think its possible to get to the EGR valve and pipe without the intake manifold being removed?

Perhaps if I can get them off and clean I can pass inspection and when the weather warms I can take care of the intake manifold.

dl2000

Mat,

I know what you mean with the weather. I'm in Portland, OR and its tough working on the car when it frozen. Cleaning the egr took me a total of a month to do....I had to search this site and saw DIY for the 2.5 tl but no 3.2 and its completely different. Broke down and bought the acura manual and that was a necessity...get one.

I had to have 3 different tries cleaning the manifold. First time, ran out of time, had no manual, didn't have the right tools, had to put it all back together and get the things I need. 2nd time, I got to where you where and can't budge the intake manifold. I had the tools, time, manual but was too stupid to look at the diagram closer to figure out I only had 4 bolts to remove on the water pipe. , then I ran out of time cause its midnight and my wife needed the car the next day. Didn't finish puttin back together until 3 am. I was ready to take it to the shop but gave it one last try. If you take it to the stealership or shop they will charge you at least 4-5 hundred for this. I looked at the manual one last time and found it.

Okay enough rambling...to answer your question. No just taking the egr, egr lower body, and egr pipe will not do. I did that, MIL still came on. I thought maybe cleaning this out will help and I even took a bottle brush into the intake manifold to see if that helps....no way. I found out when I took the manifold off, the gunk that is past the egr pipe in the manifold is much deeper and in 2 chambers. IT WAS CAKED WITH GUNK SO BAD THAT A BRUSH WOULD NOT DO, I HAD TO SCRAPE IT OFF WITH A SCREWDRIVER. Nothing will be able to clean it out except to remove the manifold. Trust me. You are not far from the end result. 4 screws and that's it.

Good luck.

Hey, if you have a FAX machine, I can send you the pages that you'll need from my manual. Highlited and all.

MadMat98tL

I DLed the Manuel from someone kind enough to post it in the forums as well as purchased the Chilton repair manual. Though there is nothing to help you out in the Dled repair/service manual I have misplaced the Chilton book so I haven;t even looked in that, perhaps that really would help. Is that the repair manual you have? That would be great if you could send the pages. Perhaps you can scan them and send me some jpegs, as I do not have a fax. Of course that is if you want too. Appreciate the help, still waiting for a 40-50 degree weekend to get the job done.

Thanks

Mathew

hashrock

My 98 3.2 TL has had the MIL for the past year, and it has always been because of the P401. I recently seafoamed her and as expected, I got a ton white smoke and my spark plugs misfired, but that corrected itself. I got the MIL cleared, praying that my EGR was clean enough so that light would not come on. I'm in NC, and they won't let you pass inspection, no matter how pollutant free your exhaust is if you have the MIL. What a bull$hit law. Sure enough, the MIL came back after about 35 miles of driving.

I've taken my EGR sensor off, and cleaned out the passage way with carb cleaner, but that's pretty much the most mechanically savvy I can be. That didn't help. I can see the EGR pipe, but I don't have the foggiest idea how to reach those two bolts to undo it - and even if I got that far, I've got no idea how I'd get that back on. I've read the repair manual as well, and it really doesn't mention anything about the EGR, except where it is located.

I'm not going to take this problem to the dealer as I don't have 500 bucks, but I do have a trusted mechanic that I use for larger jobs on my car, and I think this might be one of them. He's an Acura/Honda specialist, who moonlights on the weekends out of his garage so I think this would be right up his alley. He replaced my radiator for cost + 50 bucks. Good guy. Can I send you my fax number so that you can send me the diagrams, too? If that's cool, let me know. Thanks in advance.

By the way to MadMat98TL - sign up for an eFax account. It's free and it will let you receive faxes for free as well, but not send.

dl2000

Hey Matt,

No, No....I found Chilton manuals to be too general. I have the Acura 3.2 TL Factory Service Manual, purchased it from helmsinc.com. This is the manual Acura mechanics use. Give me your address and I'll send you photocopies.

Go90go

It's an OEM Honda Inspire grill. I had a Saber one, but someone backed into me and cracked it so I threw it away.

~Cheers~

P.S. Rims changed AGAIN, hehe.

dl2000

Hashrock,

Sure, give me your fax #.

MadMat98tL

Dl2000,
could you send me an e-mail at madmatman@yahoo.com. Then I'll send you an address you can mail those out to.

Thanks,

Mathew

dl2000

Hashrock,


You might want to resend your fax #, accidently deleted it.

desired_speeds

http://acura-legend.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=29

hashrock

-No problem. I just sent it again. Thanks.

jbalbuena

Hello dl2000, I have a 96 Acura 3.2TL, would the manual you have help in removing the egr valve? I need to pass emission test soon. And I just recently took it to Autozone and they gave me this code because my check engine light is on. Would it be too much to ask if you could please mail me some photocopies too. Thanks.

MadMat98tL

dl2000,

the pics help a lot tunrs out my lab patner worked as a mechanic for a few years and even has a barn down the street with all his tools and most importantly a heater. I will get this job done finally beggining of my spreing break. I'm trying to decide what gaskets to purchase if any. What do you think I should do?

Searched a few sites and realized there were a mulitude of them, that I will be dealing with, prices ranging from 9-50 dollars. Wouldn;t want to buy anything unneccasary. Also ever have a manifold baked to take off the carbon built up? Mech friend says thats what he had to do on his buick, think its a good idea, aka will it work?

racerock

Ahh yes, the classic you have this code that is associated with the EGR valve discovery so the cause must be the EGR valve!

You must first find the cause before the symptom is corrected.

Cruise this thread, and many others and you will find the cause - and the solution.

hashrock

Well, more likely than not - the problem is being caused by carbon build up in the EGR pipe and intake manifold. And if it is being caused by a faulty EGR Valve, then more likely than not, it's still being exacerbated by the carbon build up that is most likely there if it's never been cleaned before. My suggestion (which is what worked for me, thanks to this thread) is to get this stuff cleaned out first, clear the light, and if it still comes back, THEN take a look at the EGR valve as the culprit. You don't want to replace a perfectly good part. Just my Good Luck!

hrtrworms

This was for my 3.2 TL at 160,000 miles. The dealer preformed the warranty cleaning at 138,000 miles including a new EGR pipe and EGR valve. But didn't address the intake manifold ports. If the pipe is blocked, it's a lot easier to replace it with a new one.

The EGR pipe bolts to the flange on the back of the intake. It's tight, but possible to remove the EGR pipe with the engine still in the car. There wasn't enough clearance to take the flange off on mine, but there is enough clearance to poke something through the hole in the flange like a stubb drill after removing the EGR pipe.
I think it is 12 mm, and my blockage was in the manifold, about 1 1/2" directly behind the flange.

This picture shows the pipe mounting on the back of the intake.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...l/DCP_0609.jpg

The 12 mm port behind the flange, with the EGR pipe and flange removed
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...l/DCP_0608.jpg

Cleaned manifold, port location is slightly above dead center of picture
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...l/DCP_0606.jpg

End view of intake manifold port, cleaned
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...l/DCP_0605.jpg

End view of intake manifold, plugged at 138,000 miles. The Acura dealer had cleaned everything else under warranty, but didn't clean out the intake manifold itself. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...l/DCP_0604.jpg

It may be possible to remove the flange while still on the car, but I was already commited to removing the entire intake. I won't remove the intake next time.
Hope this helps. Fred

racerock

hrtrworms - If I could, I'd rep you on that. Great documentation. Thanks.

SmokenTL420

Need help finding those 4 bolts talked about. Any of you guys still around on here?

devolution

it sounds like the TL manifold lower plenum design is the same as the Legend, or very close, which is notorious for the EGR pipe clogging, either in the pipe itself or where it bolts to the back of the intake manifold (or both).

for those wanting more info on this, there is a good bit of info about it on the Legend .org forum, if you search. see http://forums.acuralegend.org/why-le...ts-t18630.html

the bolts you are looking for are at the bottom of the intake manifold on the back. there are two 10mm nuts holding the pipe on there, and two more holding the other end of the pipe to the EGR riser. they are a bitch to reach if the engine is in place. honestly, if you are at the point where this is a concern, i would recommend biting the bullet and removing the whole intake, having it thoroughly cleaned, cleaning the EGR pipe really well, replacing all the gaskets for the intake and EGR, and having the injectors cleaned (Witchhunter is a good place for that, and reasonably priced) and replacing the O-rings on them. it's a lot of work and money but honestly well worth the effort, plus you'll learn a lot in the process.

a common solution to the EGR clogging problem for Legends is replacing the stock lower plenum section with one from a 2G RL, which bolts up but has a slightly different inner design that seems to minimize the clogging. however, even just cleaning the pipe is better than nothing and probably resolves EGR issues for at least 50K miles.

Mandy

Well it was $150 well worth the mechanics time. I would have done it via DIY but there's a heck of a lot to do.

Reinhard

How can I remove the intake manifold from a 1997 Acura TL? I took out all 12 bolts and nuts out and disconnected the surrounding parts on the intake but I can't get it off. It moves a little but something holds the intake down.

KrayzieDxC

google acura legend egr diy you will find it an much better results of diy.

i pass inspection recently..only thing i clean was the egr pipe..that connects from the back..and stick in a peice of flat driver to clean the hole..and drive for at least 100 mile and no engine came back on. i was debate on doing intake manifold but i cant

KrayzieDxC

this is the one i did, i had good reseults
http://www.acura-legend.com/vbulleti...al-pics-68912/


and the intake manifold diy
http://www.acura-legend.com/vbulleti...leaning-79886/