MaxMike93

The other night I was driving home from hanging out with my friends in Hillsdale. I was on Hillsdale Ave. going about 32 (speed limit is 35) and I saw a cop sitting with his lights off in the TD Bank parking lot. Sure enough I see him put his headlights on and start tailing me. He followed me onto Pascack Road and pulled me over just before I got into Washington Township. Gave him my documents and a PBA card, asked who it was from, and told me I wasn't supposed to have a chrome frame. No mention of my HIDs or white side markers. I thought you can't be pulled over specifically for something like that? And last year this same thing happened. Not speeding, got pulled over on Hillsdale Ave. and was told about the frame. Is it really that big of a deal or do they really have nothing better to do? I've been in other towns with cops behind me and nothing's happened. Even when I had to get a police report for someone leaving my fender hit in January there was no mention.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

In Texas, any type of frame that covers up any part of the license plate is ILLEGAL. Might be the same in NY!
if they're pulling you over for the frame, its because they're most likely checking to see if you the driver is in any way shape or form inebriated.
in other words, it's the cop's discretion on whether or not he wants to investigate further.
is it a waste of your time? yes, if you're not doing anything illegal.
and since you've been pulled over MULTIPLE times over the frame, the easiest thing to do is TAKE OFF THE FRAME!

it's just like a DWI CHECKPOINT.

350

iTrader: (4)

Never heard of anyone getting ticketed for a frame but I know people that have gotten tickets for smoked and even clear covers. Seems like states with front plate laws are anal about that because so many people don't want to run them? I guess technically anything obstructing view of the plate is illegal. My advice is to leave NJ.

Brock79

The frames are actually illegal and so are the ones from the dealership.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

as i stated, it's illegal here in texas as well.

Brock79

Yea, I saw that and you mentioned Texas, the OP and myself are both from NJ. Where Texas laws don't apply, so I figured I would clear it up for the OP.

jurena

You guys are missing the point here, he clearly stated the cop told him he wasn't supposed to have chrome frame. In other words the lights from the vehicle behind him is bouncing off the reflective surface of the frame and is blinding the driver.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

contradictory much?

if it's illegal there. and illegal here.
we're in the same fucking boat.

MaxMike93

This seems like such a weird regulation since I have read elsewhere that any frame that covers any part of the plate is illegal, yet my mom hasn't gotten pulled over for her dealer ones, and my dad has a chrome one on his GMC and hasn't gotten any flak for it. Like I've said, cops have been behind me before and never said anything so I guess it's up to them on how much they wanna be a stickler about it. Similar thing happened when my friend was pulled over last year for front window tints (anything forward the B-pillar is illegal) but the cop just told him he shouldn't have them. I was also just puzzled since I wasn't committing a moving violation (i.e. speeding, careless driving) when I thought that was grounds for being pulled over, at least in NJ. Unless it's just agreed that you can get pulled over whenever a cop feels like it.

Brock79

No it's not the same, I'm sure the tint laws are different in your state. Also I would only worry about laws in my state and not yours. So no it's not the same fucking boat

Brock79

I would go into more detail about how it's not the same but I don't think you could keep up.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

uhh, please tell me how "it is illegal to run a frame in NJ"
is different than "It is illegal to run a frame in TX"

it's illegal to run a fucking frame. end of story.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

another example:

if i were to take a road trip to NJ, would I NOT BE SUBJECTED TO THE SAME LAWS?
which would "It's fucking illegal to run a fucking frame in New Jersey"
and I would get stopped just like the OP.

Vice versa. If you came to Texas, you would get stopped for having a FUCKING frame

WillTC

The hell? Never heard of anyone getting pulled over for this nor that this is illegal.

Butter type-s

I also have a similar experience like the OP. When I got my tl-s I was pulled over my union county cops for not having the front plate on the bumper, which was my fault because I had the plate holder but never installed it. The funny thing was that both cops that pulled me over started looking at the car, trying to get more tickets to handle over to me. They looked at my tail lights, and asked me if I had changed them, I reply no. They didn't believe me, I had to google the damn tl-s tail light on the car so that they see that the car came out light that.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

Fuckin' rookies.

misturnice

I'm going with most likely using that as an excuse to pull you over and give you a hard time. Plus you have chrome, and that's reflective, more of a reason to pull u over just to check you out.

Ken1997TL

You're young, you get pulled over. They just want to slap some extras on and make some money.

Here's a dirty secret that's well known as you get older:

Police are only on occasion perform actual law enforcement. Usually it's petty citations (local revenue), 'showing the flag' to keep citizens feeling safe and protecting the officials from potential revolution.


Take the chrome plates off, keep the music and exhaust quiet and they'll go after other 'easier' targets.

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

This is retarded, they just wanted an excuse to pull you over to see if you were drunk or acted strange so they could search your car. Its profiling, plain and simple, which is illegal, but how are they gonna get caught because "technically" a plate frame might be illegal. Who gives a shit if its chrome or not? Do vehicles not come with chrome trim or chrome bumpers? Oh BTW, I have a chrome plate frame, and my front plate is in my windshield... I live in NY though.

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

I have a chrome Acura frame on my rear plate. I know it's illegal. I have been told to remove it at least 6-7x when I've been pulled over. I got a ticket only once for it. I didn't pay. Didn't have to.

As many have said this is all about the cop's discretion. I don't know where people get this made up rule "They can't pull you over for just this or that little thing. It has to be a moving violation. Then they can tack on vehicle equipment violations." To the very letter of the law, yes, they can't pull you over for NO reason. But cops are trained to FIND a reason. If your car is customized, guess what, it's not too hard to find a "reason".

Yes you are being profiled. The government tells you they don't do that. They are lying, of course they do. Think about a cop's job. It is not easy, they have to be suspicious by their very nature, otherwise they wouldn't make very good cops. I totally understand that. But that is a fine line. They ALSO have to discern when there is no threat and not infringe on rights and abuse power.

I mentioned on another thread I am practically HARASSED by a certain police department in NJ. I can't even drive down their road, I get automatically pulled over nearly EVERY time. 12-16x within a 2yr period. Luckily I get let go often but you can tell how these officers behave it's normal protocol in the way this particular PD works. They are corrupt and they obviously profile. They do the same to anyone else that they see that fits the profile. They are not police, more like PIRATES. I avoid the area at all costs and I have no problems anywhere else in NY/NJ or CT.

I know what you are thinking. I must drive like a punk. They must be getting me for speeding. Nope. I drive like a grandma. As a matter of fact I have NEVER been pulled over for a moving violation ever in my Acura. Not once. It's ALWAYS for my LIGHT tint, license plate frame, lightly tinted tail lights etc. Just BS. A sensible person will tell me to remove them yes. I disagree. It's my car. None of what I have is really "unsafe". It is all done in moderation. A casual onlooker will say it is "illegal" but there is a reason the laws are there and what makes them illegal. I know the laws and I always find loopholes. I have never actually paid on a single ticket I've gotten. It's because the officer cites me wrong or the particular statute doesn't stick and doesn't describe things exactly as they are on my car.

Anyone who argues that mods such as these are illegal and the cop is just doing his job and enforcing safety, BS I disagree. I have friends who are cops. They agree that it's just only the real jerky ones have the heart to do that. This kind of BS is their pet peeve for some reason, so they go after it. They are trying to get in on their quotas. Sitting in a Crown Vic all day, air-conditioning blasting, burns up tax dollars quick. They can't go to D&D all day and they have to justify their salary somehow...It's all about $$$ and anyone who doesn't think so is naive or lying.

The cops really should have better things to do. Pull over all the morons on the phone and txting. That is a disease, not only illegal but unsafe. Pull over people not wearing seatbelts. Pulling over for vehicle equipment violations is BS. Of course if your car has extreme stuff on it like you've removed the muffler, or you spraypainted your tail-lights black or you have 5% limo tint on your windshield, that is different. You deserve a ticket. And a smack on the back of the head.

So while state law varies, generally the law about frames is that the frame can't obstruct the plate in any way. That isn't to say you can't have a frame at all. If a part of the frame is thick, (usually the bottom part, sometimes the top part too.) it may end up blocking the part of the plate that shows the state or the state "motto". That is what is illegal. There are thin line frames that are thin all around. A cop will tell you that is illegal too. But that's because he doesn't know any better. They will tell you all frames are illegal.

Mine is thick on the bottom. So I once replied to a cop "I didn't know they are illegal officer. But you can read the license plate just fine right?" Of course officers are trained never to directly answer your questions. Like they tell YOU, everything they say can also be used against them. He replied "License plate frames are illegal. That's all." So he might have thought he was smart by evading my trap. But his statement nonetheless was inaccurate. Yes I did use it against him, lol.

For the number of times cops have mentioned the frame when I get pulled over means to me that they definitely zero in on this. Then of course there's another reason they notice the frame......That's obviously where they LOOK to look up your car, duh. So a lot of your other mods go unnoticed, unless the cop is a "car guy" and knows his stuff and walks around your car. Only the REAL jerky ones do that.

In terms of covers, smoked ones will get you a ticket, but YES even clear ones? If it is readable then why, right? It's because the license plate has a reflective coating on it and the numbers are textured with contrast. It is designed to be read in all lighting/weather conditions and to be read by cameras. Day, night, rain etc. If you put a cover on it, there is now a flat reflection on it. A flash from a camera will make it unreadable. If there is bright sun behind your car it may not be readable. And worst of all in the winter if the back of your car is dirty, either you get dirt UNDER the cover and/or over the cover. When you don't have a cover at least the numbers are still readable because they are embossed. Personally I make a conscious effort to keep my plate clean in the winter. Not everyone does this.

So while people are telling you to strip your car and go low profile, uh no. I don't think that's right. This is not a military state, this is the USA. Rather, #1 know the law. If you are going to break it, realize there may be a price to pay and it comes with the territory. On the other end you should know the law also so you can defend yourself and not be taken for a ride. As they say; The law doesn't care if you don't know the law. They are there just to enforce it. #2 be respectful. I can't stress this enough. If you are a douchebag you deserve a ticket. Plain and simple. Most cops ARE good guys. Yes they profile me. I know they do. Don't be mad, give the benefit of the doubt. I am respectful, cooperative and never intimidated. I lower the windows keep the hands on the steering wheel. As long as they don't ask me to forfeit the 4th ammendment, I'm cool. However if the cop acts like an absolute ass from the get go and I know he is going to ticket me. I stop my gentleman treatment too. There's no reason to be so nice back to him. I hardly say anything, plead the 5th. But don't argue that ALWAYS gets you nowhere. Just fight it in court. They will test you but if you know what you're doing it gets dropped. This does NOT work for moving violations though. You will pay. At least plea bargain.

So there's the secret, almost always they let me go. No ticket. I know they expect to see a young "suspicious punk" with a backward baseball cap with the bass pumping acting all hard. They want to smell some weed in there or see an open container or something. See, the whole point is not the license plate frame. They want to bust you for something big so they can brag to their comrades about what a genius they are. Instead they see a late 30s professional with a tie on who knows English, lol. It throws them off. But it works. And I get to keep rollin on like a gangsta, lol.

tones160

Gotta take my time to read this lol. wow

tones160

I agree with you all the way. Lol I got dark tints and I've gotten pulled over may be about 5 times since installed and have been ticketed once (He was a straight jerk). I was always polite and confident that everything it came out of my mouth had sense and non-offensive.

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

Yea when they are straight jerks, don't bother talking your way out. He's heard it all day. For many cops, they see a young guy in a nice car, they don't have mercy. They look at it like you can afford to give some money to the city. You're gonna get a ticket, lol. So I act the same way back I'll cooperate but I'm not friendly at all.

It's all about respect. Some cops want more than required and I'm not saying to do that. Just know understand that cops are trained to be suspicious and investigate. They're wired that way, don't take it personal. They profile. It is what it is. You may not be looking for trouble but they are. They may mistake you for someone who is willing to challenge them. If you have an issue with ego or psychological issues with authority it means you will be the loser and you better have a lot of energy and time on your hands. Remember they are the ones on the clock so they could care less. Put a cop in a bad mood, he'll find a reason to put you in handcuffs for something that started off from a license plate frame, lol. You can say a lawyer is gonna help you. lol OK. How much you gonna pay him per hour? Seen too many people running their mouth with nonsense. Why? The best thing is to swallow your pride up to a point so you can just drive along and get on with life.

The fact is that most of the time you can get off with no ticket if you are smart, confident and know what to say.

tones160

well when i get pulled over now i just pull out my uncle's PBA...normally it works since he's a sergeant.Was pulled over once before for supposedly trespassing in a park after dusk. The cop got mad at me for not telling them first that i had family members in the force. Sometimes it all depends who you get and who's willing to make your life a living hell.

pcloadletter

People have received tickets for having an E-ZPass tag on their windshield for obstruction of view. Any non-state issued stickers are illegal.

Years ago, I failed NJ inspection for having my license plate zip tied, instead of bolted, to the front bumper of my CJ7. Apparently, zip ties are not permanent.

Police have Google and more downtime to research silly laws, so it is in your best intrest to make sure your car is in compliance.

tones160

They might as well start giving tickets for having a rear view mirror lol.

MoAbbas

i was pulled over for having the "New Jersey" being half cut off by my cover. switched to a thin framed chrome cover and never again.

theres a special material out there that ppl are putting on their plates to blur out ezpass cameras and traffic cams. my friend had it on his car for a while, then got scared and took it off. they caught the guy who gave him one, had to pay all the tolls, fines associated with not paying the toll and a $1000 on top. lucky he wasnt thrown in jail. supposedly he played stupid saying he liked the look and didnt know it would do that.

ceb

These threads are hilarious. There is always some guy who gets pulled over driving a modified car in a shady part of town in the middle of the night for an equipment violation.

They go on to complain that they keep getting hassled for similar violations often in the same area and the same time of day.

We then get several other posters chiming in about how they have similar issues and that cops are just sleazy clowns that "profile" them.

What is the profile?

Better questions would be "what am I doing to get noticed by the po-po? Why do thousands of other drivers pass the cop without getting pulled over?Why do the majority of people go for years without getting pulled over when I get stopped all the time?"

The cops aren't jealous of you or your car. If that were the case, then my 20 year old nephew would get pulled over all the time driving his dad's new Jag. I've had a license plate frame on my cars for as far back as I can remember. My current one is the chrome Acura one. I have a few mods and the last time I was pulled over was over 5 years ago (knock on wood). I regularly drive through "shady" areas at 2 or 3 AM (disasters don't keep office hours) and I've passed numerous cops who looked, but didn't bother.

You guys need to ask yourself "what the hell am I doing to get stopped." It is something you are doing, not something that the evil cops are doing.

MaxMike93

It seems like a lot of people have gotten some hostility from the cops for something about their car. To the guy who had to convince the cops that the TL-S taillights were stock, that just seems like they really were just looking to hand out whatever tickets they could.

Just to say, even though this was months ago, I was doing nothing wrong. I was driving the speed limit, through a town in New Jersey that is not at all shady (Pascack Valley has a lot of affluent towns). Don't give me the "You must have been doing something to get their attention" line. My radio was reasonable so I would hear it, and my exhaust is stock and barely even audible (Believe me, I had my friend rev my car once and I heard nothing). As for the "cops aren't jealous" thing, I don't think too many people is intimidated by or envious of a fourteen year old Infiniti sedan. I have not been pulled over since then, and even if I do, I, like the member above, have a PBA card from a well-respected sergeant that helps me out in petty incidents like this.

ceb

So why do you think you were "targeted"?

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

Well on my little dissertation back there I was trying to imply a few things so maybe I'll be more blunt. What profile? OK here goes, I am not white. I don't know if you are or not but if you think that doesn't make a difference in 2014 you're wrong. And no, I didn't want to bring up the "race card" but if I didn't, I wouldn't be telling the full truth. A couple times these cops even spoke to me in funny fragmented sentences at first expecting me not to speak English properly. Haha. Then when they realize I don't have an accent they revert to normal speech. Can't make this stuff up.

How do I know race is a factor? Easy. I went to this courthouse on THREE occasions to contest tickets. The courthouse was FULL of people. You can call my observations coincidental all you want but it was obvious that the demographic of the people fighting tickets were minorities. There are about 20 cops on this force. And no, not all of them are white, 4 or 5 black. The people in the courtroom were made up (in this order) of Latinos, Asians, Jews, Blacks, Arabs. If it happened once OK. I saw this 3 times. I some some other people on the internet saying the same things, so I know I'm not just seeing things. More than half of them struggled to speak properly in front of the judge.

This is not a shady part of town at all. This is an interstate through which thousands of people travel through and these guys are nothing short of pirates. They prey upon people that they feel are less competent and won't fight a ticket. They are looking for easy money. How do I know that? Because when their intent is to ticket me, and once I talk to them, most of the time they actually do let me off. It's all in the way I talk to them and prove their assumptions wrong. Tickets are their main source of revenue in order to support their relatively large police force for such a small area. (20+ cops on one force for 13miles of road and parkland. There is NOTHING else in this region. No residences or businesses. This many cops for just an interstate and park. That is ridiculous.) Again, they were not pulling me over for moving violations. They pulled me over once observing my car and taking a peek inside to see who was driving. That is profiling my friend. BTW this force is famous for busting some high profile drug cases by making incidental stops such as these, so they feel it's justified to snatch your 4th amendment rights whenever necessary.

So driving a modded car does get you attention, I am not asking for it. Most of the time it is positive attention. But why should it get me negative attention from the cops? Why should that be MY problem? The problem is within particular cops heads. So what should I do? Cower down in intimidation and drive a "plain Jane" Honda Accord like the population and play by "the rules"? A lot of non-auto enthusiasts have told me that is "smarter". I don't think so. We have rights, this is a free country, regardless of how I "look" I AM an American and will defend myself even from the government. I am not "asking" for trouble. This is a case of the cops looking for it in the wrong places. Yes they DO need something better to do, and there are better ways to do their job. And they are barking up the wrong tree and not making anyone "safer" with activities such as these. They should feel ashamed for harassing and wasting the time of tax-paying, law-abiding citizens. Why are all those non-modded cars not getting pulled over? Easy because they don't stand out and are camouflaged. But that's because they don't care, their car is an appliance to them. Cops will go after those kind of cars with moving violations in mind. So is that why I should not have a modded car? Why is the fault on me?

I don't think it's jealousy either, they don't want my car. I think it's more like "How can he afford this car? He might be selling drugs or I can catch something else. And if he has money to dish out, at the very least I have no problem giving him this ticket either." Yea, I know that is speculation. But getting pulled over 15x+ does that to you.

No I am not a cop hater. As I said before, I have friends who are cops and the majority of cops are good guys, I truly believe that. I underestimated the use of a PBA card, but it does truly work in many situations, it depends with who you are dealing with. (That NJ force laughs at those cards btw.) I have police memorial special plates on my car. That alone gets me off on a lot and the cops mention it. If I hated cops I wouldn't have that. So the problem here is not that. The problem is that when you give people power, some of them don't know how to use it the right way. It is not uncommon to see the judicial system abuse it.

It's been a couple years since those days of these hassles but it still annoys me that I can't drive down that road. I can't enjoy what I worked hard for. I wish to see that particular police force disbanded. It's been discussed on certain articles and politicians over the years. This is not just my opinion, they are a known problem. They have their own independent police force for NO reason and it eats up our tax dollars and ticket dollars. What they do is unnecessary and their territory can easily be absorbed by the surrounding county or better yet, the state police.

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

How extreme is this police force? Just a few stories of their stunts with me:

1) We had an AZine meet in one of their parks for a BBQ couple years ago. Some cars (not mine) were parked diagonally across the parking lot stripes. Mind you most of the lot was empty. Cops trolled around slow scoping around. The guy screams on the intercom to move our asses or everyone will get tickets for tints and no front plates. Everyone runs out like WTF to move their cars. My car was parked perfectly fine. But of course it has tints and no front plate. OK, granted, but most of the other cars there did too. I was like "Aw crap, these guys know me and hate me. They're gonna go for me, watch. Here we go." I said this out loud. As the cop rolls past MY car he stops. He gets out and walks around my car and to the back to read the license plate. Goes back to the car and runs it. About 30 seconds later he slowly drives off and away. The AZiners are like "WTF was that about??" I said "Told ya!" Lucky I got no ticket or hassle, but the question begs, WHY me?

2) I went to their courthouse to contest a ticket. About 1000ft from the courthouse at the beginning of the road in the median was a cop sitting in his car. (No radar on.) I went by him and he pulls a SUPER U-turn and comes after me. I'm parking my car and he comes by and says "You're kidding me right?" I'm like "Whaa? No I think you're kidding me." He says "You have some nerve to pull up in this car." I said "Why? I'm here to fight a ticket, you're trying to give me another one? For what? What did I do?" He smiles and says "Naw it's all good, enjoy your day." And drives off. Am I driving a Bugatti or Rolls here? I really don't understand this. Right there I realized this is like some game to them. They think it's funny or something to flex their muscles. I wanted to jump in his tax-paid Crown Vic and drive it off a cliff. lol.

3) Another time, I was driving along and talking to a friend and got lost in thought. I took my old route and ended on towards the highway onramp by accident. There was nothing I could do, no turning back, I had to keep going. I got so upset and said "DAMN!! I don't want to be on this road!! I took it by mistake, if a cop sees me I WILL get pulled over!! I need to take the first exit!" Sure enough half a mile down the road I catch up with a cop. But he was WAY in front of me. So I slowed down to stay out of view and blend in. The last thing I wanted was to pass him. It was still a couple miles to the next exit but luckily there was a ramp to a small rest area. I calmly exited off to wait it out. You won't believe this. The cop is ahead of the rest area and he pulls to the shoulder and stops. He then REVERSES HIS CAR BACKWARDS THROUGH THE ONRAMP of the rest stop!!! WTF!! He pulls up behind me and reads my plate and runs it. "You know why I stopped? Because of your license plate frame." HAHA!! WTF? What a liar! How did he see my frame when I was behind him? He only saw it at the very end. Then he said "I saw your police plates, thanks you're good." Uhhh, ya. Thanks.

This happened all with this exact same PD. Mind you when I am in CT I have NEVER been pulled over. Not once. So it all has to do with who you are dealing with. Sometimes I do get a hard stare, but they are more with the policy of getting you for a moving violation policy or a "give me a reason to pull you over" which I think is more fair. In the case of NJ, nope, these guys do what they feel like.

And keep your guard up. Someone said some cops know minute detailed and tricky laws. In my experience that has been the exception rather than the rule. They have lied to me saying such and such is the law, when it wasn't. I didn't argue, just let him write the wrong ticket and prove it in court. I have been cited numerous times for the wrong law or code. They don't know the law as much as they think they do. Do the research and if you know vehicle equipment laws better than they do you can defend yourself in most cases. Keep doing your thing!

ceb

Sounds to me as if you have the race problem.

What does a Jew look like?

You clearly have an anger issue and I'd suggest that you get professional help.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

I don't know if you're baiting him with a troll attempt or what, but he also said "blacks", does that imply an anger issue? If he said Israelite or Hebrew would that have been more politically correct?

Ugh shit like this makes me so sick, you call someone what they are in a non derogatory setting, not a racial slur and even that's offensive.

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

I very much expected someone to say something when I used those terms. I'm not trying to sound ignorant, racist or offensive. I surely know what all those terms mean and the difference between a religion and a race. Obviously I used the most general terms based purely on outward appearance for the sake of argument.

Now of course you surely cannot tell what every single person's background is by just looking at them. People get me confused for 5 different things because even I don't fit into a "stereotype". But some people do and you can tell exactly what they are. Depending on where you live (NYC is a good example.) as a minority, we hear a lot of things. So I guess we aren't afraid to use some terms loosely. But don't take that for racism, there is no hate there. We are just race conscious. I know people want to live in dreamworld where we are all colorblind. As a minority you know the reality that it isn't and it is just a fact of life.

Let me give you an example. If you say "African American" like some PC people do, that isn't entirely accurate. Not all people that identify with black are actually of African genealogy (well yea we actually are all African, lol.) I used the term black because I am not shy to use it. Some people accept that term, others don't. I know some don't "look" Black. But I'm not talking about that. It isn't meant to offend. The truth is, that is that if that is what a person looks like externally, that is how they will be described as. And depending on who they deal with, yes they get that dose of racism no matter what their TRUE background is.

An example of this department's activity:
http://www.change.org/petitions/chie...g-of-black-men

Now when I said Jew, yes I know that it is a religion. But did you know that some people consider that a race too? Before you get butthurt, relax it is debatable. Some say it is, some say it isn't (As HeartTLs rightfully said, some will say "Hebrew" instead.) Well I am not here to debate that, whatever. What I'm getting at is anti-Semitism is surely alive and well. Sure you can't always tell that someone is a Jew, there are different groups. But if a cop sees "Goldstein" on the license, there you go. What did I see in the courtroom that day to know there were Jews there? Well if you are familiar with Borough Park Brooklyn, it was obvious they were Hasidic Jews. It was not just one person. There were about 4-5 of them there separately. Sorry I wasn't PC enough for you. BTW my last name is Jewish, but I am not Jewish. Unbelievably I have gotten a minor taste of anti-Semitism in my lifetime just based on that! So I can only imagine.

Asians are not spared either: http://www.policeone.com/news/31194-...isades-park-nj

When you are somewhere that other people think you "don't belong" you get comments, or at the least you get hard stares. You only understand if you are one of these people or been in places where you are treated this way. Now this has no place in government if this is USA. And to say that certain police have not had a history of racism historically is hilarious. It is rampant my friend.
http://www.vosizneias.com/27754/2009...-parkway-cops/

In my case from what I can see, this is not OVERT racism. It is covert racism. Not in the sense that they were trying to lock me up or call me a slur. No. More like a attitude problem and power trip to make money. This is more like; let's bust the chops and take advantage of people less likely to argue back, that will comply more easy, that get intimidated and not tout their "rights" at our face. They see it as weakness and an easy target. I saw it in the courtroom. The judge said numerous times "If you can't speak properly I suggest you return with a lawyer." Who is gonna do that if they already took a day off for this BS? So many of them mumbled something and were sent out pressured to agree to some plea. Hardly any could argue their case to get it dropped like I did. Sad.

Haha did you say anger issue? OK, I am the biggest joker actually. But the thing is do you expect me to be harassed 15x and be happy about it?

I could keep going on about this and if you're still thinking this is speculation, sorry there is nothing to convince you unless you got a taste yourself. Take it as one sided accounts or whatever. I for one know this is real and I am actually trying to get in on with some politicians trying to petition to disband this group. They need to go, enough of their circus.

So I get pulled over for license plate frame. But this isn't about a license plate frame really. So it stays on.

tones160

Really Ceb? Out of a whole essay you highlighted just one word? I really do understand the point that Rocky is trying to point out and like it or not some cops do go about stereotyping people. Some think due to his/her color of the skin that person it's more likely to commit a crime. Not only race plays a big part of those unnecessary stops but also age. A few year back when I was 18 yrs old I was pulled over right on Memorial Day for supposedly speeding at 81 MPH. I swear to everything that I have I was driving at city highway speed limit of 55 may be almost 60. The cop didn't even catch me by radar instead he wrote me up a yellow crappy ticket. At the time i had 4 friends in my car in which one of them is now my wife. I swear dude, when i attempted to fight this ticket off at court. The judge found me guilty with a violation of 6 points on my license plus paying $600 for 3 yrs on a driver's assessment fee. According to the judge, I failed to bring legitimate witness/es that can counter the officer's statement. Really? Who's going to stop at 2AM to witness a cop giving me a speeding ticket that he was so certain i was doing 25 mph over the limit, that's underheard of and very unrealistic.

At the age of 18, I worked hard as a front desk receptionist for my 05 Accord. I'm almost positive he targeted me because of my HIDs and they were only 8K in temperature. Once he noticed my car was modified with expensive rims, a little low, and with a full body kit I'm sure he saw $$$$ coming his way. Until this day, I have yet to be disrespectful or dishonest to the authorities but it is what it is and I guess they think they're using their best judgement call for anyone they may think is a suspect.

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

I know talking about this race card usually gives 2 reactions: Either people are evasive and don't want to talk about it. Others are pretty sensitive about it. It's understandable. It's easy to have misunderstandings or offend someone. So my aim was not to incite anything or have anything taken the wrong way.

And yes don't think I'm saying that minorities are always the victim. There are plenty of racist minorities, I can admit I see that in my own community, so I totally agree with that too.

I was just trying to explain that this is how profiling is done and that it is very real issue that is not going away anytime soon. This is what "stop and frisk" is all about. Whatever a cop associates with "trouble" that he sees in his community is what he will go after. You don't have to be breaking the law. There is a stereotype down south of bright colored 80s cars on 24" rims. There is another one about guys in LA driving 60s cars with hydraulics and spokes. I am sure they have stories too. Apparently DWB is a crime, lol.

You might say "cars don't always fit the stereotype", yes, there are exceptions of course. But most of the time this paints a picture of who the owner is or the culture associated with it. With any of us normal people, we love variety, we respect and appreciate it all. But for those who have a bias or want to start trouble, your vehicle says who you might be to them. Once they peer in and have a look at you it confirms their suspicions even more.

Like I said, the way I get away from tickets most of the time is my age, the way I am dressed with a tie and speaking cool, professional, respectful and friendly with them. It throws them off. But if I was in my 20s and dressed in a t-shirt and baseball cap, trust me I'd probably get a ticket every time. In fact I used to get more tickets back then with a less flashy car. Now I have a more flashy car (with more vehicle equipment violations ), get pulled over more often, but actually get way less tickets. But this comes with the territory. I already knew this was a price of modding a car before doing it. Actually it's an inside joke with most of my friends who are minorities, we always say "Oh you are asking to get pulled over" and we know what we mean by that. It's the profile. And I have been fine in most places because I drive very safe and don't get moving violations. This trouble is with one particular PD. And it's always a "vehicle equipment" excuse they use to say that's why they pulled you over. When you know that isn't the reason. "Where do you work? Who owns this vehicle? Been pulled over here before?" STFU! You can't tell me there isn't something up with that.

If you maintain that cars can't be profiled along with their owner you have to be fooling yourself.

ceb

8000k (which I assumed you meant instead of 8k) is well outside of the "white" spectrum and actually violates the lighting laws.

People speed all the time and unless there is a targeted enforcement zone, "normal" speeding won't get you a ticket.

There is ALWAYS something that you are doing that catches the attention of the cop long before he looks at the driver. Be it music, car appearance, exhaust or inattentive driving, there is something external that catches their eye.

Once you are on their radar screen, other things go through their mind (drugs, alcohol, other illegal activity) depending on the circumstances and that is usually the cause for a records check and a stop. Race very seldom plays a role anymore.

Yes, there are some places that target out of town speeders for the revenue and more than a handful of cops who might target on appearance but if you keep getting stopped repeatedly then it ain't your race that is attracting their attention.

I'm Hispanic and I've gotten stopped a handful of times in my entire driving life of 40+ years. I've driven flashy expensive cars in all sorts of neighborhoods at all times of day. Every time I was stopped was for a legitimate traffic violation.

Again, I ask - what does a Jew look like? In a car, driving down the road? (aside from Hasidic)

It is so easy to say "I was targeted because of my race" and it is so hard to admit (even to yourself) that you were stopped because of something you did.

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

Most cops are reasonable. They are looking for real offenders. They aren't looking to hassle the innocent. Others are all about the LETTER of the law no exceptions. They are bored, biased or want to fill quotas.

So let's talk about the law. If you want to know the truth, things like mods to the headlights, tail-lights etc.; if it isn't DOT approved, it can be deemed illegal. They were engineered to pass tests for visibility under all conditions so fiddling with that is a problem. So strictly speaking ANY mod on your car can be considered illegal. Like how most of us have cleared lights, tail-lights etc. So anything you do poses a risk for a ticket of some kind. OK. So let's put that aside. State laws differ. There is nowhere that specifically says 8000k bulbs are the ones that are illegal or what spectrum the light should be. A cop can say "Your lights look blue." That's nice. That's just his opinion. In my state it vaguely states that the light has to be white and can't be colored. What does that mean though? See these laws have not been updated to talk about HIDs. So technically this can be argued in court. And this is what I do. They get me with the letter of the law? I fight back with the letter of the law. And wherever the law is flawed I take advantage of it for it's loopholes. That's how a lawyer thinks.

But here is the more important thing. Ticket for 8000k headlights? Really??? Is it that serious? This is what I mean, go after real stuff. Someone with those 20,000k headlights or REALLY blue, violet or green. Yeah I get that, that needs a ticket. The cops should go after things with discretion, not just knowing there is a law to back him up. The law is there for a reason, not to just write tickets. The truth is 6-8000k is very common and not such a serious thing to spank someone with. U may say "yes it is!" OK then, why do cops that sit there with their radar on generally let cars that are 10mph over the limit whizz by? Because nearly everyone is going 10 over the limit! It really is accepted and not so serious. Now someone going 20 over? Give him a ticket by all means! What as I was saying before, if you are the wrong person in the wrong place you can get that ticket for going just 5 over. You can say I gave the cop a "reason" but I'd argue that we all know what that real reason is and it isn't the speed. It's more because you are that wrong person, wrong place and wrong time.

I know you are saying if someone breaks the law, then pay the piper and they shouldn't look for side excuses or self-insecurities like race etc. I get it. But to say that some PDs don't use race a profiling factor to try to investigate and get more on you, and if they don't, at least use the original violation as a "guaranteed" minimum; the truth is, it is effective most of the time. And every rare once in awhile when they do get an actual drug bust out of it? Guess what, nothing but pats on the back, reinforcement and encouragement to keep doing it! So they feel justified in doing it.

Tint is illegal in NJ, OK. But in my state 35% is allowed. So then they try to ticket for this even though I am compliant with the state I am registered in. What am I supposed to do, rip my tint off as I drive through and then put it back on. So I had to argue that I comply with my own state laws and show them the books. See this is BS, why am I guilty and have to prove my innocence? Now if someone has 5% tint or tint on the windshield, something like that, give em a ticket! No excuse. This is not what they do. It's like an unnecessary test of competence and wit. It is easy money for them to try and get someone feeling scared or guilty of doing something "oh so wrong". Gimmie a break, there are better things to do in life! You know what? If I was a real criminal and I really wanted to hide something with my tint, I would NEVER be in a flashy car anyways. I would be in an SUV with tinted windows (which somehow are legal right?) or a panel van. SO how come people like that are not as much as a concern, hmm? The real criminals are slipping by camouflaged with the normal cars, duh! Tinted window laws that say that tint can't be used at all is just about making money. The law should be 35%. That is totally reasonable. No front plate? Another DUMB law!

I am SO glad that you haven't experienced this ceb. But being that you are Hispanic could mean that this is something you COULD experience too. But this all depends on where you live and drive, so our experiences will be different. So you are right, it's not just about race. It's where you are. I can tell you for sure there are places that you wouldn't want to be driving at the wrong time of night, you too would get a hassle in a flashy car. Age is also a factor. And if you don't "look Hispanic" that is another factor. If you say you don't know what I mean by that, come on. I am not at all trying to offend you at all. I am explaining how some people perceive us minorities. They bucket us into these categories and stereotypes. Our haircut and clothes, all matter. That is the makeup of the "profile" I am talking about. It shouldn't have to be OUR job to shatter their preconceived notions. But in order to stay out of trouble that is exactly what I try to do. I wish the effort doesn't have to be on our end, but it does.

Again I reiterate that what I meant before by "Jews" in fact was Hasidic. And yes there is an obvious way they look like. These cops look at not only the car but the person driving. Yes it is true that the majority of the courtroom was there for moving violations. But either minorities can't drive or they are getting more tickets for some reason. I was only a handful of guys there with equipment violations and some of their experiences mirrored my own, they said they also get targeted all the time by the same PD. I mentioned before that this police force doesn't do just speed traps. The cops that get me are either driving with me on the road (and they pass me to "investigate" and look into the car like a hungry shark and THEN pull me over.) or they sit by the side of the road with their radar off. They just sit there watching each car. So what's that about? This is an 11-13mile stretch is trolled by a force of 20-25 cops so they are rampant, literally driving around on top of each other lol. Speed limit is set artificially low at 50mph. You can easily do 65mph on it, but I actually put the cruise on 50mph with my Valentine One on.

I didn't mention this but sometimes they block onramps at rush hour on the highway. (Thanks for creating safe unnecessary traffic for us.) They eye each car and then pull cars they want to the shoulder. Another cop comes by with a clipboard writing tickets. That is another way they got me one time. I watched as every Camry, Accord and Sienna was passed by (probably filled with real criminals, haha who knows.) In the shoulder with me was every lowered, tinted car with rims. It looked like a Honda or Acura car meet. lol. I get it, our cars are "breaking the law" in some idiotic way. Is it really that serious?? Of course not. $$$$ It's all about the Benjamins. Cha-ching! Pizza party at the PD. So I can't even go in that jurisdiction. I have actually mapped it out and I know their exact borders. Since 2012 my routes always bypass around it. Guess what, NEVER been pulled over since. No mystery there. So either I'm all of a sudden not breaking the law of all the other PDs or maybe just maybe; I'm not somewhere I'm being profiled.

So I am not sitting here being cynical, angry, bitter and judgmental like you imagine I am. I am actually happy-go-lucky and accept everyone. This is not some anger-rant about race. Surely this is a minority and not the majority. I give the benefit of the doubt. But I am also on the defense when I need to be and evade cops when I can. When and if I get flack I am the least bit surprised and they won't catch me off-guard. I stay educated and know my rights and that is the moral of the story. I just accept that it is, what it is and I gotta look out for myself. And I advise everyone the same, that's all.

tones160

lol ok this is obviously a debate that neither party will win. On to the next thread!