Sinistr

I am going to be ordering suspension parts soon and was debating whether or not I wanted the ASpec suspension or just get the Koni Yellows to use with the the stock springs. Well, TLtrigirl helped me in making up my mind with this post. So, it looks like I will be sourcing part #202A for my car. I'll also be ordering the Progress RSB as well. My car is a DD for my wife, so I can't go to low but still want the car to handle and be lowered just a bit.

StealthTL-S

The TL - type S M/T that I am buying (2008) has the total A spec kit, the suspension, the body kit, and the 18" wheels. I like it a lot as it really makes the TL look sportier for sure. I would get the A spec suspension before any other aftermarket as it is a Honda/Acura stock part. I just trust the OEM parts more. And , the drop is only about 1" , but looks very good, not to deep a drop.

viking00

iTrader: (2)

Tell me about it. After several thread reads and searching online vendors this is what I've found so far:

When I look them up on acurapartsforless.com this is what I find and would seem that there are still 4 good part #'s:
1.) 08w60-SEP-200C is still a good part # - TYPE S?
2.) 08w60-SEP-200A is still a good part # - BASE Auto?
3.) 08w60-SEP-200B has been replaced by 08w60-SEP-201B which still lists as good - BASE Manual?
4.) 08w60-SEP-201A has been replaced by 08w60-SEP-202A which lists as good - BASE Auto?

They are all the same price so I have no idea why there are still 4 good part numbers showing................And which one for my particular car? Have no idea difference between 202A and 200A.

nttstt444

iTrader: (1)

I think the multiple part numbers exist because the numbers themselves have been updated/changed over the years. There is ONLY 2 A-spec suspension kits, MT and AT. there is no difference between the base and type s kits, they are the same thing. Also both kits will fit on both cars (MT/AT). if you put the MT kit on an auto car it will drop the front end ever so slightly more than the rear.

viking00

iTrader: (2)

FWIW i measured mine and it's 26 1/2 on each 4 corners. I thought I read in some thread that the Type S might sit a little lower than the base? If that's the case, don't know If I'll get the same drop with A-spec kit? What are your measurements for those that have installed the kit? Also stock 17"s and assuming stock suspension.

nttstt444

iTrader: (1)

Doubt that the Type S will sit any lower than a base, I think it weighs less than 100lbs more?. If it does its not noticeable. And measuring the drop like that is kinda pointless, different size tires will yield different results and there's other variables too. If your just concerned with the drop(seems like most people are) than you'll want adjustable coilovers, or lowering springs not A-Spec.

viking00

iTrader: (2)

Its not that I just care about ride height. Choosing Aspec for performance reasons as well as the subtle drop!
I just read alot of these posts of people running the Aspec kit and ground to fender height is right at 26 1/2in which is where mine is starting at. Got me wondering if it already has Aspec on it or reason why?

No big deal. Ordered it anyway. Hoping for 1/2 in when all is said and done. Hope I'm not disappointed? Time will tell.

jauman

iTrader: (4)

Just installed the A SPEC suspension on my ride saturday. I love how it feels... but two days of riding on them and they've yet to drop.

PreInstall Height Fr 25.25
Installed Height Fr 25.25

PreInstall Rear 26.375
Install Rear 26.375

Hopefully over the next couple of weeks I'll get a drop. If not I would've rather bought some lowering springs for less money.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

i got a drop soon after install...like as soon as the car was dropped from the jack stands and floor jack.

I hate cars

A huge difference in aspec vs aftermarket springs is aspec will slightly reduce understeer by increasing rear bias a little. Many aftermarket spring sets I've seen, including coilovers had more front bias, maybe for legal protection but that's not what you want for the TL.

jauman

iTrader: (4)

do you remember if your original shocks and new sHocks we're the same Length compared side side (before installation). Or were the new shocks a little bit shorter than the orginal shocks?

Thx

viking00

iTrader: (2)

Jauman,
I'm surprised to read how much lower in the front you are even at stock. That's 1in and 1/4 lower than mine. I measured ground to bottom of fender lip

jauman

iTrader: (4)

what size tires are you running, how much air pressure? I am currently running 235/45R17 with 31 pounds (34 pounds).

my measurements were from the ground the crest of the fender well measuring straight through the center of the Wheel.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

cannot recall length. they virtually look the same....the springs were different i do remember.

i too was a little suprised about how much lower your fron twas to the rear. stock the car usually sits higher in front. mine still does with Aspec.

jauman

iTrader: (4)

Any ideas why this may be? Note: I have the TIS front sway bar and a progress rear sway bar.

viking00

iTrader: (2)

235/45-17 with 35lbs up front. Checked and measured again this morn.
It's sitting right at 26 7/16 ground to bottom of fender lip dead center of front wheel. It's colder up here in MT lately so the 1/16 to 1/8 drop from previous measurement is normal.

Still doesn't explain why you started so low?

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

i have stock 6MT FSB and Progress RSB...i'm on 18's with OEM specd tires. no idea why yours is lower.

I hate cars

Are you the original owner?

I hate cars

If I remember right, stock and aspec were the same height side by side. Other than the springs, the places you could see a ride height difference is in the lower spring perch or the bottom portion of the shock that the lower control arm clamps onto. If those spots are the same as stock, the lowering is done with the springs.

jauman

iTrader: (4)

I'm not the original owner however the original owner was an old woman. The shocks that came off had the original TL part numbers.

jauman

iTrader: (4)

Okay guys, I remeasured. The front is at a dead 26. .... on my dry erase board my wife had 25.25. 26.25 is what shouldve been wrote down.

So I stand corrected.
Stock Fr 26.25
Aspec Fr 26

Stock Rr 26.375
Aspec Rr 26.375

SORRY Guys!

KBP-phrawstbyte

I went from stock Type S suspension to ASPEC at 55K. Very big improvement and I don't have to worry much about the things I used to worry about when I had a slammed Honda in the past so +1 for ASPEC suspension IMO. Plus, I have yet to be disappointed in any way with its performance.

I will say that I would like to go with an 18 or 19" wheel though.

nk2k2

If I put an A/T set on my 04 M/T, will they fit and any issues going that route? I can get a set for a steal.

jauman

iTrader: (4)

Good news ....

I went from
Stock Fr 26.25 to Aspec Fr 25.9375 a total of just under 3/8" drop in the last two weeks ... LOL!

And

Stock Rr 26.375 to Aspec Rr 26.0635 (less than 3/8 drop)

Was DEFINITELY hoping for more. Maybe in time...

viking00

iTrader: (2)

Keep us posted. Glad you got some settle.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

they are all interchangeable. your front end may not drop as much as the MT kit b/c of weight difference of AT and MT.

zoostation

iTrader: (1)

So I'm torn between Aspec and Tein. With that 1.1 drop, is the ride as good as the Aspec with it's 3/4 drop? Is it tight but not stiff? Thanks

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

^^this is all subjective based on what you prefer. there are not too many people that have tried both and can only speak from their own experience from one or the other.

basically if you read through the threads on Aspec and the Teins to formulate your own conclusion based on your needs and wants for your car. good luck.

JPerkMr954

Hate to jump in this because there is already wonderful conversation going on, but just wanted some "direction". I bought my 05 about 3 months ago, and I think the suspension is going or almost dead. I hit bumps in the road and its a bit jarring if that is how I can describe it. Im 99% sure that when this car was new, it didnt have such a harsh feeling to it even though it is somewhat sport based.
Im thinking of replacing the front and rear struts with OEM OR OEM REPLACEMENTS, because I want a softer more luxury ride. I would like it a tad lower also as im installing the aspec front lip and possibly some aftermarket wheels. Ride comfort is key, then tastefully lower. Should I consider the aspec kit, or should I look other options?

AndrewA

iTrader: (3)

The aspec kit gives a slightly more aggressive ride than stock, so this is probably not where you want to go. Perhaps you get a set of adjustable konis, stick with the OEM springs and set the konis to full soft and to a slightly lower perch to achieve the drop you want.

I hate cars

One thing about our TLs is they have little suspension stroke even at stock height. You're pretty close to the bumpstops already. Lowering it puts it closer to the bump stops. This is why if you lower the car you should always go with a firmer spring to keep it from hitting the bumps stops.

If yours if worn out and it has a jarring ride, it's probably because you're hitting the bumpstops. A new stock shock should help a lot but believe it or not, a slightly stiffer spring and shock can actually help ride comfort. Lower and ride comfort just don't go together, not on normal roads anyway. You can use a stock rate spring and shock combo that's lower but you're going to hit the bumpstops easier and that's going to kill ride quality.

There are a couple things a slightly stiffer spring and shock will do. One is keep the car from hitting the bumpstops which helps ride comfort and handling tremendously. Another is to control body motion.

Where better/stiffer shocks help with body motion is especially when driving over bumps unevenly. Such as turning and going over a dip or a gutter. Instead of the body rocking back and forth a few times, it rocks less initially and stops rocking, there is no back and forth. With less body roll, you don't feel like you're cornering and stopping as hard because the whole car is not leaning to one side or diving in the front and lifting in the rear under braking.

Big bumps will be much more comfortable. You will feel small bumps more with new OEM shocks and with stiffer shocks/springs. It's a tradeoff, feel a little more of what's going on under you in trade for a less jarring ride, especiall over large bumps.

My '06 had a pretty sporty ride for a stock suspension. It was far from harsh but it did have a little bite to it. The aspec suspension was the perfect upgrade for someone like me. It lowered the car just enough that it looked much bette but not so much anyone outside of the TL world would notice. The handling and dynamics were noticeably improved but again, it wasn't so stiff that my co-workers noticed it had "aftermarket" springs in it. Aspec is the perfect compromise IMO between performance and comfort. Acura did a great job in designing the aspec option.

The ideal combo IMO is aspec springs and Koni Yellow shocks. They're pretty expensive but it's an awesome street combo and it gives you several ride height adjusmtents along with a very wide range of damping adjustments. This will come in especially handy if you ever upgrade the swaybars. You will need more damping to fully take advantage of the swabars since they are a torsional spring and require damping. This isn't absolutely necessary but it's good practice when you have the adjustability.

Swaybars are another thing that can help a lot. You could do an OEM spring and shock setup and use a Type S front swaybar and a 22mm or adjustable 24mm (set on soft) rear swaybar. This would not be an ideal combo but it will make a very noticeable seat of the pant improvement and won't cost that much if you do it yourself. You don't want to go with really stiff swaybars on the OEM springs, that's why I suggested the Type S front and softer rear bar. With aspec springs you could do the H&R 28mm adjustable front bar wit the Progress 24mm adjustable rear bar.

So basically, new stock shocks should help a lot.

Aspec springs and shocks will lower it slighlty, give better handling and dynamics and should help the ride over what you have now.

Aspec with Koni shocks are a great but expensive combination.

Swaybars can be thrown in the mix to cheaply help the handling while barely hurting ride quality.

Jroddsk20

Aftermarket is cheaper

JPerkMr954

Im going to look into this more. I just want it less harsh for normal city driving and bumps and uneven roads that are found, in addition to the harsh way it feels to go over speed bumps and such. Maybe just a full OEM replacement will get me where I want, but it wont get me a lowered stance.
I am looking into wheel upgrades, possibly type S wheels, or possibly aftermarket 19 or 20 inch wheels. So Id like to close up any gap or reduce I should day.

lowgrowl

I have had the aspec suspension on my 06 TL for a few years and while the handling improvement was noticeable (drop not really), my feelings now are that it fell short of what I was really looking for. IMO the aspec springs were designed mainly to get the wallow out of the car at the same time keeping the ride close to stock. This was to appease a large audience. I believe for true performance handling a spring like the H&R sports is in order (with a sport shock of course). I am sure the ride quality will still be good and the springs will provide much better handling.

I hate cars

I wouldn't replace the springs if you're going OEM suspension. The springs don't really wear out. I'm going to guess they're not sagging or you wouldn't be complaining about the gap.

Getting Koni shocks for your stock springs will work very well. On their softest setting the ride is at least as good as stock but with better body and suspension control. You can also lower the car 3/4" in the front and I can't remember if it's 1/2" or 3/4" in the rear. 3/4" in the front makes a huge difference in looks but without making it look like its lowered to most people.

lowgrowl

Why do you prefer the aspec springs over other aftermarket springs like the H&R sports or eibach prokit? Don't you agree they will provide better handling, decent ride quality, and more aggressive looks?

I hate cars

Well looks are subjective so I won't mention that. I personally don't like more than 1-1.25" but that's just me.

It's the handling balance that I have a problem with, with most aftermarket springs.

If you stiffen the rear more, the rear has less traction and the car will become tail happy with too much rear stiffness.

If you stiffen the front too much, and this includes swaybars or springs, the front tires have less traction and the car tries to go in a straight line instead of turning around a corner.

Ideally you want both ends of the car with the same traction; you want both ends to break free and slide at the same time. That's the quickest the car can be around a corner. Either end breaking free prematurely means you're losing cornering speed.

The other thing to mention up front is suspension stroke. This is extremely important and it's almost always overlooked. The suspension is not just for driver comfort. If that were the case, race cars would have no suspension, no springs or shocks. The suspension's job is to keep the tire in contact with the road over bumps and irregularities and to keep the tires flat on the road during heavy cornering. It's also to react under heavy power to push the tires down into the road when racing but we won't get into that since the TL is FWD and it's not a drag car. The suspension must be able to compress as far as it needs to and not hit the bump stops. Hitting the bump stops is the worst thing that can happen when cornering. The TL already doesn't have a whole lot of suspension stroke and when you lower it you take that much more stroke away from it. Lower most definitely is not better for handling, not even close.

The other good thing about having a suspension is you can tune the front to rear balance as I mentioned in the beginning.

The aspecs bring the handing balance to a more neutral state. You end up with less understeer (front tires breaking free first) than the factory setup had. It also barely lowers the car so you get more suspension stroke than most aftermarket springs. These two reasons are why I like the aspec setup so much. The car will have a little more body roll than with a lot of the aftermarket setups but put them both on the track and the aspec setup is going to win most of the time.

Many of the aftermarket setups I've seen that include spring rate specs increase front rate more than they increase the rear rate and this increases understeer which the car already has plenty of in factory form.

Body roll is not the end of the world when driving a TL. The suspension geometry is great and it goes into negative camber as the body rolls which is great. A stiff spring might make it feel like it corners better and it can help the handling dynamic but it's handling balance and tires that are going to determine how high your cornering limit is.

I look at the spring rate, the ratio between the front and rear stiffness. If you add a disappropriate amount of front stiffness, the front tires are going to break free sooner than the rears and while there may be little body roll and it will feel very responsive, at the limit it might not corner as quickly as it did when stock.

The same can be said for those that put the 24mm rear swaybar on with the factory 5at small front swaybar. The car feels tight and responsive and people love the way it feels. However, take it up to it's limit around a corner and you better be ready for the rear end to slide and the overall limit will be lower than stock.

Even worse than too much roll stifness is infinite roll stiffness. This happens when the car hits the bumpstops when cornering. Once this happens, the bumpstops have no give so it's like having a very, very stiff spring. This is the cause of snap oversteer in a lot of cases. The car will be cornering hard but stable then you turn the wheel just a little more or hit a small bump and the car spins before you can do anything about it.

So back to aspec vs aftermarket, I like aspec for the handling balance and for the stroke retention. In every day driving where there are bumps and dips and unknown conditions, it makes for an excellent handling car. Of course, swaybars also factor in with handling balance. For dedicated track use you would go with something else but aspec is hard to beat on the street even if it has more body roll and it's not as low as some of the aftermarket offerings.

lowgrowl

I am impressed with your knowledge of handling.
With about 50K miles on my aspec suspension I am noticing more body lean (side dip) when I change lanes at high speeds. It could be that the shocks are getting softer, but I'm not sure. I am looking for flat movement when changing lanes and a greater feeling of being glued to the road. I am sure I might have to give up some ride quality ( the aftermarket sport springs are supposed to ride decent) but I am willing to sacrifice that for a more secure feeling at high speeds. By the way I also have a comptech rear swaybar on my car.

I hate cars

You know what helped the most on my car for high speed stability was the H&R 28mm FSB. It would work with your Comptech 22mm swaybar but it would work even better with a Progress 24mm RSB. Even with the aspec and 24mm rsb it had an unstable feel at high speed. I was surprised the difference the fsb made, it was definitely better for high speed stability than all of the other mods.

It sounds like your shocks might be getting soft. I noticed my OEM shocks softening slighly around 40k which is when I began the upgrades. You could always try Koni shocks with the aspec springs.

The way I look at it is if you go with stiffer springs and your current shocks are already getting a little soft, you're going to need shocks anyway. You might as well try the shocks first and see if they give you what you want.

You might also consider coilovers. There are a couple out there that allow you to lower the car without losing any suspension stroke. Coilovers don't do anything for performance that a good set of springs and shocks won't do except for the ones that retain full stroke. If you pick the right coilover it's like having your cake and eating it too. If there was a set that came with Konis as the shocks I would get some, at least in the rear. My modded Konis on the front retain full suspension stroke as well but the mod is not for beginners.

lowgrowl

My plan is to go with the H&R sports 1.4 (F) & 1.3 (R) paired with either tokico HP's or koni shocks. This in conjunction with the comptech rear sway bar and my 235/40/18's I think will give me great stability at high speeds.
I may be wrong but I just think the H&R sports will make the difference