Acura: TLX News
07-11-2003, 03:09 PM
#321
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Thats a bold statment saying you are gonna buy someone a house considering that you know just about as much as everyone else and that is nothing-remember we're onthe rumors forum!
07-11-2003, 03:09 PM
#322
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Originally posted by prballard
The 04 TL so far doesn't have a JDM counterpart.
The 04 TL so far doesn't have a JDM counterpart.
07-11-2003, 03:11 PM
#325
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Originally posted by Booyah
Where is the TL being produced? Japan or USA? Thanks...
Where is the TL being produced? Japan or USA? Thanks...
07-11-2003, 03:12 PM
#326
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Originally posted by jwaters943
Actually, Autoweek posted the AWD rumor first and Justin simply comfirmed it. If you read back through the thread Provench stated that Justin had told him about AWD some time ago, but asked him not to say anything. Justin was just waiting for the right time (I assume the right time being once more info/rumors had leaked).
Actually, Autoweek posted the AWD rumor first and Justin simply comfirmed it. If you read back through the thread Provench stated that Justin had told him about AWD some time ago, but asked him not to say anything. Justin was just waiting for the right time (I assume the right time being once more info/rumors had leaked).
I posted it first... 
07-11-2003, 03:28 PM
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That guy is all talk and no action! Buy a person a new house you got to be high..I would bet that offer will not be filled, plus with comments and an attitiude like that.... :whocares:
Buy a person a new house you got to be high..I would bet that offer will not be filled, plus with comments and an attitiude like that.... :whocares:
07-11-2003, 03:37 PM
#330
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Originally posted by PokeyD16Z
I think maybe this is a step towards Acura distancing itself from Honda. If their bread and butter sedan doesn't have a Honda lookalike, then it would definately distance itself like that.
I think maybe this is a step towards Acura distancing itself from Honda. If their bread and butter sedan doesn't have a Honda lookalike, then it would definately distance itself like that.
Save that for Acura. Also, not sharing some of the dash buttons would be nice. What upset me about my '02 TL is that the last gen Accord EX V6 had a VERY similar auto HVAC layout. I maybe wrong, but the auto HVAC layout from Toyota and Lexus are diffent.
AWD will help but it is not enough. Even Honda's new president says that the company isn't good at making a luxuary car but they are good at value cars. The new Accord is a value leader in my book if you get one fully loaded. Acura needs to act like a luxuary car company and while I like their bang for the buck plan, that plan needs to include things that others have. Yes it may raise costs some what or Acura needs to have a package similar to what is offered on the MDX for those who want the extra.
I'm excluding the RL because that car has been a headache for the company for years. So much so that some where divided over the direction for that car. Oh yea, real wood would be nice, but I will say that the fake stuff in the TSX is very good.
07-11-2003, 03:42 PM
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Another thing. Acura is usually intoduced as the Honda motor companies luxurary division....
I've noticed that Lexus is just Lexus. Yeah, everybody (I guess) knows who its maker is but Lexus seems to have an identity separate from Toyota.
I've noticed that Lexus is just Lexus. Yeah, everybody (I guess) knows who its maker is but Lexus seems to have an identity separate from Toyota.
07-11-2003, 04:48 PM
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Motor! You Must have meant 11PM! I was thinking before noon.....I have talked to 2 dealers and he told me that he gets most of his info off of the Net, just like us! Im sure they know a little more than they tell us. 
07-11-2003, 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by bdt980
I just emailed my local dealer and are waitiong for them to get back to me--I'll let you know what i find out
I just emailed my local dealer and are waitiong for them to get back to me--I'll let you know what i find out
guess he knows just about as much as we do
07-11-2003, 10:28 PM
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Remember that a TL is around 29K, TL Type S around 32K, so it may be going up a few thousand if compared to the 29K to around 33K, but stays relatively the same as the S type price as it has similar features / powerplant.
Only a thought
Only a thought
07-11-2003, 11:04 PM
#342
Yeah, good point.
07-11-2003, 11:38 PM
#343
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I've been lurking here for several months, and enjoy the discussions. I've avoided registration until today because I already waste far too much time in other sites! 
On the HPT subject...
VTM4 as used in the MDX and Pilot is a reactive system. It engages when the electronics detect slippage. Slippage is defined as a difference in speeds. This engages clutch packs ahead of the rear differential and locks the front and rear axles together, so that power from the front can be distributed to the back.
It works wonderfully with the MDX and Pilot. They are able to launch in slippery conditions better than most of their immediate competition. However, there are some problems...
When you take a sharp corner (say, turning in a tight parking lot), the rear wheels take a different path than the ones up front. If your wife jumps curbs with the inside rear wheel like mine does, then you know what I mean.
That inside tire travels a shorter distance in the same amount of time as the front tires. In fact, all four tires are moving at slightly different speeds. That difference in speeds should engage the VTM4 system, causing the front and back to get locked up.
This is why that is a problem. If you lock the front and rear axles together, then they cannot move at different speeds.
In truck talk, they call this "binding". It's the reason why true 4X4 vehicles should not have their systems locked while driving on dry roads. If the surface is slick (mud, sand, or gravel), then the tires can scrub off the difference in speeds. If you are on pavement, the tires stick and the drivetrain takes the stress. Ever seen a twisted driveshaft? VTM4's lock feature is only to be used in slippery conditions for the same reason.
Most permanent AWD systems get around this by using a center differential. In concept, it's alot like the front differential that allows the wheels on one side of the car to move at a different speed than the others. Without that, you couldn't turn.
The MDX and Pilot have no center differential. It' not necessary because the clutch packs are not locked very often. The electronics are dumbed down a bit, so that the system will allow 2-4% differences in speed before engaging the rear wheels. That is usually enough to allow the wheels to spin at different speeds during a turn.
So binding isn't a problem, right? True, enough. But it also means that the system is a hair slow to react. It won't provide the same advantages that a system like Subaru's or Audi's will grant. The rear wheels will only kick in a split second after they are needed. You want the rear wheels pushing through turn in order to prevent understeer. Instead, they will only start pushing after understeer has already started (too late!).
The bottom line is... VTM4 is a great all-weather system. But it's not a high performance design. Unless Acura has installed a
center diff, or some other device, VTM4 will have limited benefits.
JM2C
On the HPT subject...
VTM4 as used in the MDX and Pilot is a reactive system. It engages when the electronics detect slippage. Slippage is defined as a difference in speeds. This engages clutch packs ahead of the rear differential and locks the front and rear axles together, so that power from the front can be distributed to the back.
It works wonderfully with the MDX and Pilot. They are able to launch in slippery conditions better than most of their immediate competition. However, there are some problems...
When you take a sharp corner (say, turning in a tight parking lot), the rear wheels take a different path than the ones up front. If your wife jumps curbs with the inside rear wheel like mine does, then you know what I mean.
That inside tire travels a shorter distance in the same amount of time as the front tires. In fact, all four tires are moving at slightly different speeds. That difference in speeds should engage the VTM4 system, causing the front and back to get locked up.This is why that is a problem. If you lock the front and rear axles together, then they cannot move at different speeds.
In truck talk, they call this "binding". It's the reason why true 4X4 vehicles should not have their systems locked while driving on dry roads. If the surface is slick (mud, sand, or gravel), then the tires can scrub off the difference in speeds. If you are on pavement, the tires stick and the drivetrain takes the stress. Ever seen a twisted driveshaft? VTM4's lock feature is only to be used in slippery conditions for the same reason.Most permanent AWD systems get around this by using a center differential. In concept, it's alot like the front differential that allows the wheels on one side of the car to move at a different speed than the others. Without that, you couldn't turn.
The MDX and Pilot have no center differential. It' not necessary because the clutch packs are not locked very often. The electronics are dumbed down a bit, so that the system will allow 2-4% differences in speed before engaging the rear wheels. That is usually enough to allow the wheels to spin at different speeds during a turn.
So binding isn't a problem, right? True, enough. But it also means that the system is a hair slow to react. It won't provide the same advantages that a system like Subaru's or Audi's will grant. The rear wheels will only kick in a split second after they are needed. You want the rear wheels pushing through turn in order to prevent understeer. Instead, they will only start pushing after understeer has already started (too late!).
The bottom line is... VTM4 is a great all-weather system. But it's not a high performance design. Unless Acura has installed a
center diff, or some other device, VTM4 will have limited benefits.
JM2C
07-12-2003, 12:03 AM
#344
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Originally posted by Varmint
I've been lurking here for several months, and enjoy the discussions. ....
The bottom line is... VTM4 is a great all-weather system. But it's not a high performance design. Unless Acura has installed a
center diff, or some other device, VTM4 will have limited benefits.
JM2C
I've been lurking here for several months, and enjoy the discussions. ....
The bottom line is... VTM4 is a great all-weather system. But it's not a high performance design. Unless Acura has installed a
center diff, or some other device, VTM4 will have limited benefits.
JM2C
And I guess the dude is just getting warmed up......
BTW how long do you think it'll be before we find out what JM2C means???
07-12-2003, 12:23 AM
#345
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Originally posted by hwaNi.J30A1-C
BLAH BLAH BLAH ... CUSS CUSS ... MORE STUFF
BLAH BLAH BLAH ... CUSS CUSS ... MORE STUFF
On the HPT/VTM-4 ... again ... folks will believe what they want. But I know where my money is ... justinjsw. For you n00bs that don't know him ... I appreciate why you dismiss this as rumor, but I guess I know a bit more about his track record.
Also - I think it was mentioned that HPT is a VTM-4 variant ... so perhaps variant aspect is to deal with the issues in putting it in a sports car variant vs. what is required in the MDX/Pilot for traction in slippery conditions.
So now I guess we all shift in to suspense mode to see what happens.
07-12-2003, 12:39 AM
#347
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hmm let me try to analyze this
looks like an aluminum accent, very nice. Cushioned leather door pad, armrest. His foot is probably hiding a light/reflector. Looks like child door locks on the side. The door lock seems to be aligned with the window divider. Yup that's about it
looks like an aluminum accent, very nice. Cushioned leather door pad, armrest. His foot is probably hiding a light/reflector. Looks like child door locks on the side. The door lock seems to be aligned with the window divider. Yup that's about it
07-12-2003, 12:40 AM
#348
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Originally posted by provench
hwaNi.J30A1-C - Just to make this short and sweet. You have been warned. This type of response is not the type of environment we are trying to build here and it will not be tolerated ... nuff said......
hwaNi.J30A1-C - Just to make this short and sweet. You have been warned. This type of response is not the type of environment we are trying to build here and it will not be tolerated ... nuff said......
I hope it's clear to him that there's nothing against dissent and argument on here, just that there are certain ways it shouldn't be done.
07-12-2003, 08:21 AM
#350
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Thanks for the welcome.
Strap in... here I go again.
I've been lurking long enough to know that I shouldn't bet against Justin. If he says there will be an AWD system, then he must have good reason for saying it.
With that said, I believe it will not be the same VTM4 system that I've come to admire in the MDX and Pilot. Some variant is required. Or it will be the same system and a weak substitute for what we see in the Audi TT or BMW3xi.
VTM4 locks the drivetrain from front to back as well as side to side. (I didn't get into that before as I'm being a loudmouth as it is.) ATTS distributes power from side to side, but not front to back. You can have binding in both directions.
Now, VTM4 is a locking differential and ATTS is a slipping differential. How many diffs can they fit on one axle? It's possible that they might have a single set of clutch packs ahead of the rear diff to distribute power fore and aft. That's like having 1/3 of the VTM4 system. Then they could use ATTS for the remainder of the diff. How much you wanna pay for all this metal? We haven't even gotten to the front wheels.
We're just scratching the surface with this discussion. There's far more involved in this. Just one example: A permanent AWD system sucks gas. Not very Honda-like.
JM2C = Just my 2 cents
Strap in... here I go again.
I've been lurking long enough to know that I shouldn't bet against Justin. If he says there will be an AWD system, then he must have good reason for saying it.
With that said, I believe it will not be the same VTM4 system that I've come to admire in the MDX and Pilot. Some variant is required. Or it will be the same system and a weak substitute for what we see in the Audi TT or BMW3xi.
VTM4 locks the drivetrain from front to back as well as side to side. (I didn't get into that before as I'm being a loudmouth as it is.) ATTS distributes power from side to side, but not front to back. You can have binding in both directions.
Now, VTM4 is a locking differential and ATTS is a slipping differential. How many diffs can they fit on one axle? It's possible that they might have a single set of clutch packs ahead of the rear diff to distribute power fore and aft. That's like having 1/3 of the VTM4 system. Then they could use ATTS for the remainder of the diff. How much you wanna pay for all this metal? We haven't even gotten to the front wheels.
We're just scratching the surface with this discussion. There's far more involved in this. Just one example: A permanent AWD system sucks gas. Not very Honda-like.
JM2C = Just my 2 cents
07-12-2003, 09:19 AM
#351
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Varmint, are you a mechanical engineer? Your knowledge on different AWD systems is appreciated here, engineer or not. Along with my 93' Vigor, we have a 94' Legacy, and 01' Outback. I certainly enjoy the AWD system in the Subaru's (expect for the gas milage). Taking curves without a hink of oversteer or understeer can be a whole lot of fun. My wife would scare must of you guys with the speed she takes freeway off-ramps. 
My wife would scare must of you guys with the speed she takes freeway off-ramps.
07-12-2003, 09:21 AM
#352
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Just finished reading every post on this thread and I'm very curious about the new TL. Sounds exciting! And I like the looks. I think it takes a few cues from TSX. I bet headlights look alot alike. This thread reminds me of the excitement felt when we were putting puzzle pieces together about the TSX! BTW If I were a betting man, experience says bet on Justinjsw. I get the Autospies e-mails. Pretty cool seeing Acura-TSX.com getting the scoop!
I like some of the good intelligent info coming from new guys (like Varmint for instance). hwanNiJ30A1-C is an idiot. He must own Honda since he's so sure of what Acura will and will not come out with! Gilbo with a foul mouth and more attitude! At least Gilbo exercised some restraint! I'm kinda hoping he shows up!
I like some of the good intelligent info coming from new guys (like Varmint for instance). hwanNiJ30A1-C is an idiot. He must own Honda since he's so sure of what Acura will and will not come out with! Gilbo with a foul mouth and more attitude! At least Gilbo exercised some restraint! I'm kinda hoping he shows up!
07-12-2003, 09:26 AM
#353
Originally posted by Found939
At least Gilbo exercised some restraint! I'm kinda hoping he shows up!
At least Gilbo exercised some restraint! I'm kinda hoping he shows up!
07-12-2003, 11:09 AM
#357
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Originally posted by bdt980
Sent another email to another dealer--hope i have better luck
Sent another email to another dealer--hope i have better luck
From my Dealer:
We do not have all the details on the 04 TL yet but we do know for sure that the colors will be Anthracite, Black, Abyss Blue, Redondo red, Desert Mist, White Pearl, Silver Maetallic, and a shade of green. Interior colors will be Carmel, Parchment, Ebony, or quartz. I personally believe that HPT will stand for high performance tire. HPT could also be a package where you get somewhat of a sports package on the car with 18 inch tires and a few other little things. I doubt HPT has anything to do with all wheel drive - but I have been wrong before. I have not heard of anything about a date for the press conference but will try and let you know if I do hear. We are currently taking deposits on the 04 TL if you would like to reserve a particular color. We are going to be ordering our first alotment in about a week so we might as well order one you would like. Deposits are fully refundable if there is anything about the vehicle you do not like.
I guess We already knew that
07-12-2003, 11:25 AM
#358
Drifting
One question I have about his response is that if he is ordering his first allotment, he has to specify color combinations AND transmission. We know this thing will have multiple transmissions, and we know it will have the HPT package, therefore there's an excellent chance the dealers know what HPT is and they aren't saying. You would think they would want one to generate excitement, and know what is was they were ordering.
07-12-2003, 02:08 PM
#359
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damn, I have been following this thread for a long time now and today I could not remember the website address. I spent the last hour searching on tsxclub.com and then clubtsx.com for this damn thread. I finally got lucky and found a link from imakenews for this thread while i was searching with yahoo. anyway just thought Id let you know what a pain in the ass you guys are.
oh yeah you are bookmarked now.
oh yeah you are bookmarked now.
07-12-2003, 02:22 PM
#360
Originally posted by Jason
One question I have about his response is that if he is ordering his first allotment, he has to specify color combinations AND transmission. We know this thing will have multiple transmissions, and we know it will have the HPT package, therefore there's an excellent chance the dealers know what HPT is and they aren't saying. You would think they would want one to generate excitement, and know what is was they were ordering.
One question I have about his response is that if he is ordering his first allotment, he has to specify color combinations AND transmission. We know this thing will have multiple transmissions, and we know it will have the HPT package, therefore there's an excellent chance the dealers know what HPT is and they aren't saying. You would think they would want one to generate excitement, and know what is was they were ordering.
Please keep in mind rumors are just that...rumors. I will do the best I can to stick to the facts.