ScottLong

I disagree. I apologize if I offended anyone with this thread, but from everything that I have read so far......it's all good opinions. No 'raging' or 'bashing' of anything. Solid posts. This thread isn't about 'how fail Acura is' but what formulas Lexus used to elevate so far above Acura(at least in terms of sales). It's not just a 'bash Acura' thread.

usdmJON

Explain

Sarlacc

You can disagree all you want...I have been here long enough (as have others) to know this is the same thread posted every 3 months.

Rick_TL-S

You'd be amazed on just how much emphasis Lexus puts into this covenant. While I can not speak for all dealerships, I know my company heavily prides itself on these words along with making sure customer relation is a #1 priority to give off the image that Lexus offers a reliable luxury vehicle with the owners first. Because of this, we have been visited twice by Toyota/Lexus' higher ups from Japan & those who run Toyota's headquarters in the US in the last 5-6 months.

I have never worked for Acura, so I can't say just how dedicated they are internally, but from what I have observed as an Acura owner vs. first hand of Lexus' owners, there's zero doubt why Lexus is a higher tier; they work with the same goals as the other luxury marques & it reflects back in how they interact with their owners.

Acura simply doesn't seem have to kind of dedication, or at least, I haven't witnessed it as an owner.

012TL-GLM

Very simple. Lexus got in the giant SUV market early and made RWD cars. Oh, they got a V8 too, oh, and a Halo car, called an LFA, it's retarded expensive, not even faster than cars half the price, but it's brand defining. Acura has taken too long bringing the NSX back and the performance of the ILX and RLX are mind numbingly boring. SH-AWD is the only tech Acura offers to stand out. The guys at the top are either arrogant or ignorant. The MDX and RDX sell well because they look good, drive great, and offer a lot of value compared to the competition. The sedans are in a world of hurt with the competition. I would buy an Avalon over an RLX

Sarlacc

Acura dealers are crap shoots. Some Honda dealers treat you better than some Acura dealers. Some are great.

Lexus...there is a reason my parents stuck with them for nearly 20 years. Even though my mom switched to Cadillac...my dad still has his IS. Their closest dealer is 40 minutes away and delivers loaner cars to their house...to pick up their vehicles for oil changes. And while all their dealerships may not do that...Lexus holds their dealer network accountable...something no other mainstream dealer network (that Im aware of) does.

Rick_TL-S

Probably a lot of truth to that. I pass by the dealer I got my car from every day & I've never gotten over how I just don't feel comfortable giving them my business ever again.

The first time I took the car in for service, I expected the guy who had helped my family previously. He saw me & not once greeted me or made any motion of acknowledging me; I'd seen this fucking guy at least 6 times before. I was helped by a nice young lady that time. Afterwards, months later, a guy I knew was a service adviser, so I dealt through him. I ended up learning a LOT of guys I met through nightly car meets worked as techs & whilst they were good guys to bullshit with, they were not people I wanted working on my car; I'm sure they thought I'd be ok with them revving my exhaust.

From then on, I only dealt with the same adviser & requested the same tech. When they both left, I stopped going & now have my car serviced at work under my own supervision & with people I trust.
I don't know if Sewell does it (as our biggest competitor, they probably do), but I know my team is sent every so often to Austin/Houston/Oklahoma, or anywhere else within' 2-4 hours to deliver cars if the client requests the service.

I spent the day a couple weeks back going to fucking nowhere to deliver a LS. Boring area way out off the main highways, but hard to bitch driving 2 hours in such nice cars.

oonowindoo

every 3 months? that long?

oonowindoo

When my friend got his E46 M3 6mt in 2003.. he didn't really know how to drive stick.
and he insisted to drive home himself.

The dealer then sent a sales person to drive behind him in another car (for 1 hour in traffic) to make sure that he gets home safe.

This is AFTER he signed all the paperwork and everything. We still talk about that till this day. of course he then bought 1 more E46 M3, his dad bought a 745Li (gear selector flew off in 2008 and hit me in the face) and he later bought a 335i 6mt and his sister bought a 328i from the same dealership.

That is how you build loyalty!!

F23A4

Although I think that's the exception and not the rule, I agree with your conclusion. If nothing else, that's definitely a dealer whose building/built a loyal following.

Booya4139

The lexus LS sedan was the gamechanger.... They had a car off the bat that was on pretty equal footing with BMW and Merc large luxo sedans.

Booya4139

I saw my first TLX on the road yesterday and I had to sigh. Its definitely been neutered from the hype and people feared. While the rear end has some lexus/bmw lines to it, car looked small and didn't really stand out or produce much of an emotional reaction.

Huge wheel gap was dissapointing too.

Loseit

iTrader: (1)

lolz

p.diddy

iTrader: (3)

i was just thinking the same thing. how long until the next person feels the need to take their whack at it.

ScottLong

As a brand new poster to your site, this thread have been incredibly informative. I do appreciate all the opinions so far in this thread.

I take a bit of offense to you and that other poster calling this a 'dead horse' thread. First off how am I suppose to know this Lexus/Acura thread was a 'dead horse'? May I have the links to the recent threads on Acurazine regarding 'Why Lexus is succeeding and Acura is failing'? In that direct context? Not only threads of 'Lexus' or 'Acura' but a combination of the two and a comparison of the two in one thread? If you can't link at least 4-5 made over the last 4-5 months. It's not a 'dead horse'. It's a new topic.

Even if it is a 'dead horse' So what? I post on RedCafe(Man Utd Site) and everyone there talks about Cristiano Ronaldo vs Lionel Messi. But if a brand new poster made a non trolling thread about 'Ronaldo's stats vs Messi' I wouldn't mock the thread. Anyways no big deal. I was just curious what posters on here think about Lexus v Acura and the business models/standards both companies have. The things people felt Lexus did right that Acura somehow couldn't do.

charliemike

Hey Scott, check out the TL/TLX thread in Automotive News. There's an extensive conversation there about the entire history of the 4G TL/TLX lifecycle.

The reason that we consider this a dead horse thread is because there's a very contentious relationship between current Acura owners and everyone else who might have been Acura fans in the past or actually owned an Acura.

In Car Talk, most of us have moved on to another brand. Some have left Acura and have purchased a couple new cars since then without giving Acura a second thought.

Many of those that currently love Acura cannot comprehend why others dislike the brand. There is a very fanatical band of Acura owners on this board that simply will not listen to anyone who criticizes Acura.

We've fought this battle so many times (I've been a member here since 2001) that we just gave up. There's no way to persuade a fanatic and Acura has not done anything recently to change the mind of those that have abandoned the brand.

I hope that helps.

oonowindoo

i hope 1sicklex does not see this thread. He might actually rejoin when he sees how we became Lexus fanboys.

Sarlacc

Hey...newbie who takes offense to the established...Im sure you're not new to forums in general...amazing little feature called search. It works.

But go ahead and get as butthurt as you can muster...its still a topic that has been rehashed over and over and over again. whether you were here at the time or not.

So...much like your whining about disagreeing with us or being offended...its a broken record.

AZuser

Lexus' I'd want:

IS


IS-F


RC


LF-LC


LFA




Acura's trying to compete with ^ with these?

ILX


TLX


RLX



No Acura, concept or production, since the 1G TSX and 3G TL came out has really made me want an Acura. That was a decade ago. And while the TLX is a good car and it will probably sell in decent numbers (I'm expecting 45K-50K?), I'm not sure I'd really want one. But at least it isn't a complete turn-off like the rest of their sedan lineup.

oonowindoo

hey, at least he was respectful, unlike some of the other newbies who joined in August/2014 that we have seen lately in Cartalk.

oonowindoo

you dont want some of these?

AZuser

^

Rick_TL-S

I need a link to see more of that car.

usdmJON

Sure post a nicely build lexus, anyone would want that over a stock acura.

To me though the above Lexus have really ugly grills. I'm not down for the predator look. Only front end I think looks good is the IS-F.

If you ask me, Lexus doesnt look as luxurious as it used to. Im speaking ONLY looks. Where as I feel Acura has taken on a more luxurious and less sporty look. Its pure personal preference there.

The ILX is very tame. Add the OEM kit and it spruces up a bit. Add a splitter like I have and it looks far more aggressive.
The TLX, IMO, looks great in the front. Rear looks classy.
RLX, same as TLX but bigger and bulkier, exactly where the flagship of a luxury maker should be IMO. This is just my thoughts on the luxury brand. Not a sports car.

If you take Chan_Mike's TLX build lowered oem kit on vossens it will turn heads probably as much as that last lexus that was posted.
Take the wheels off the lexus and put them on the his TLX and id pick that all day over the Lexus... especially if Im making the payments.

p.diddy

iTrader: (3)

heres my reply. its not as in your face as Sarlacc but a reply none the less lol. charliemike pretty much summed it up on what i would have said. the only thing ill add is yes this topic has been covered to hell and back. acura vs every luxury brand in the known universe and why they all are ahead of acura and yes specifically lexus, audi, inifiniti, bmw, and mercedes. just a piece of advice since you're new and said you were a bit offended, cartalk and especially ramblings are filled with people with varying degrees of personalities don't take what people say personally. its a forum so you will get opinions and comments in the full spectrum. so don't take it personally it was merely my opinion.

those pics pretty much answer why acura sucks and lexus is so much better, plus a host of other things.

Black Tire

I have been eyeing the Avalon as my next car. The it looks like a Jaguar and it's alot of a car for the money.

oonowindoo

WTF are you smoking?

I posted a picture of a GS-F for him to see because he posted every Lexus except for GS..

So i asked if he want some of the GS-F...
who said anything about TLX? not everything we post is about TLX.

If you want to talk about personal preference, TLX is FWD, even their SHAWD is still FWD based, So it is dead to me regardless what it looks like.

charliemike

I think you could slap an Acura badge on a rolling dumpster and some people on this board would argue the merits of it.

wildeklave

Acura looks at profit and standardization a lot. I think they would drive better sales if they promoted the SH AWD on all models like Lexus does for F Sport, BMW for M, and Mercedes for AMG. If they included a more sporty look for the SH AWD (like showing exhaust tips, a more sporty grill, and tune the car up for greater horsepower) then they may get a few extra sales. Acura is considered a boring (dare I say) old man's car right now. The company is way too conservative. It is almost like they want to be "good enough" and not really push the limits with new technology.

For conservative I will point out the ILX and RDX. Both came out in 2013 and have had almost no changes since. At the time they were decent but now they have been surpassed in technology and in some cases power by non-luxury brands like Jeep, Hyundai, VW, Mazda, and Ford. The fact that neither has LED DRLs when non-luxury brands have them now is part of the story. A vehicle without LED DRLs in today's market is either an older vehicle or a base model because the buyer chose not to spend extra for an upgraded version. In my mind all luxury vehicles should have these standard. In a time when BLIS, Collision warnings, parking assist, and lane changing sensors are becoming norms these vehicles don't offer this technology. The Honda Accord has greater technology then some of the Acura vehicles. I am surprised that the Accord hybrid system has not been added to the ILX or RDX since it produces around 200 horsepower (similar to the Lexus hybrid's output). Acura made a huge mistake by not refreshing the 2015 RDX and ILX with the new tech features. This is the conservativeness of Acura since they have gone with a 7 year cycle in the past with year 4 being the refresh year. Since the auto market is always changing with new advancements you can't be held back because of a formula where you are reluctant to change until a certain time.

Also, Acura is just in North America while Lexus is global. I think this makes a difference too since many internationals know Lexus but not Acura.

Now to look at the example vehicles:
The ILX is an upgraded Civic with barely more power. The IS250 is a true step up from the Corolla. The RDX is differentiated from the CRV. The Accord and TLX are very similar at the Accord's top level. Then again the Camry and Lexus ES are similar too.

Auto sales overall are strong so Acura is making money but where they lose is to Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, and Audi. The CLA, A3, and lower end 3 series are taking sales away from the ILX. The Cherokee, Santa Fe Sport, MKC, Escape, and upcoming NX will take sales away from the RDX. Nissan decided not to add a stronger engine to the Rogue so it is not competing with the RDX right now.

When the RDX and ILX came out the CLA, A3, Santa Fe Sport, MKC, Cherokee, and NX were not in the market yet to compete. Now they are considerations. Plus the IS has been refreshed.

I think in summary that Acura is trying to be an upgraded Honda and not a true luxury brand.

charliemike

Has Lexus released RC pricing yet? I couldn't find it when I did a quick search.

oo7spy

Fixed.

1) It doesn't matter how you ask the question, the answer is always the same. As stated, Honda is committing suicide.
2) Don't get offended. It's the internet and won't bode well.
That he was.

p.diddy

iTrader: (3)

lol i laughed way too hard at that.

bottom line the glory days of Honda are long gone and i don't see them coming back anytime soon. they're content with being a mediocre company putting out bland products, when the competition continues to pull further and further away.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

That's basically what it boils down to.

the gentlemen that have moved on from acura, no longer see the value that the brand brings.
Jon, as a young gentlemen, you are trying to be more established.
you dont have the income that they have, therefore Acura is a very good deal to you.

why should some one settle for mediocre products if they have the means to get what they want?

and yes, the acura sedan line up is mediocre.

p.diddy

iTrader: (3)

thats exactly what Acura is, a glorified Honda. at this point id take a fully loaded Accord over anything Acura has to offer.

Sarlacc

SLAPP!

Joneill44

Its the Lexon GS350

Sarlacc

Lexus was not always a global brand. It, too, was strictly based in N.A. for a long time.

wildeklave

in your signature I see you have a Cherokee limited. Did you cross shop the RDX? If so, what led you to the jeep over the Acura?

charliemike

He's an <strike>Acura</strike> Mopar fanboy!

Sarlacc

I replied in the other thread you made.

But no, I have no real interest in the RDX...and since its mainly my wife's car I asked her if she wanted to look at one and she said "no" as well. So we didn't bother.