Supercharged 2010 TL-SH-AWD 6-speed
03-19-2010, 03:31 PM
#42
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I work with Rob. The claim is legit - they are/have supercharged a 4G TL SHAWD. CT-Enigneering are working like dogs to get it done. I'm excited to see it too. Should be soon peoples! Have faith!!!
03-20-2010, 02:52 PM
#45
After my experiences with upgrading performance on cars, I just have to point out that automatic transmission cars are rarely the ones that aftermarket companies develop serious power adders for. The only exception are cars that have tuning companies make tuners that can reflash a computer through the on-board diagnostic ports and such. Obviously, the TL does not have that kind of support.
On top of that, performance torque convertors are probably twice as expensive and probably 10 times harder to find than an upgraded aftermarket clutch.
On top of that, performance torque convertors are probably twice as expensive and probably 10 times harder to find than an upgraded aftermarket clutch.
03-21-2010, 03:08 AM
#46
Team Anthracite
After my experiences with upgrading performance on cars, I just have to point out that automatic transmission cars are rarely the ones that aftermarket companies develop serious power adders for. The only exception are cars that have tuning companies make tuners that can reflash a computer through the on-board diagnostic ports and such. Obviously, the TL does not have that kind of support.
On top of that, performance torque convertors are probably twice as expensive and probably 10 times harder to find than an upgraded aftermarket clutch.
On top of that, performance torque convertors are probably twice as expensive and probably 10 times harder to find than an upgraded aftermarket clutch.
Most people with the 3rd gen supercharged didn't really have much tranny problem so its still holding up!
putting it on the automatic is doable but it is a matter of finding the common mounting points for the two vehicles!
03-21-2010, 06:39 PM
#48
Drifting
03-22-2010, 04:34 PM
#50
Racer
Huh? The people likely to buy this are performance-hounds... and they're the ones buying the manual. The TL's automatic is pretty slow. If you want a top performing car, it would be more economical (and fun) to switch to stick than to expect a blower to compensate for a slushbox!
03-22-2010, 06:32 PM
#51
Huh? The people likely to buy this are performance-hounds... and they're the ones buying the manual. The TL's automatic is pretty slow. If you want a top performing car, it would be more economical (and fun) to switch to stick than to expect a blower to compensate for a slushbox!
Just like it makes more sense to develop for the FWD model since it stands to reason there are more than both Auto/Manual AWDs combined.
03-22-2010, 09:08 PM
#52
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
I would place a solid bet that the amount of automatics far out number the manuals. It's only logical that the majority of the crowd is on automatics and that if they proved it was reliable on that transmission, they will sell way more. I know how all of you stick shift heads love to get on the people with autos about performance, but there's no rationality to your argument. From a business decision standpoint, it would make more sense to develop towards automatics.
Just like it makes more sense to develop for the FWD model since it stands to reason there are more than both Auto/Manual AWDs combined.
Just like it makes more sense to develop for the FWD model since it stands to reason there are more than both Auto/Manual AWDs combined.
BTW I believe that we will be having some Acurazine track days at our track. Check it out online and let me know what you think. It is still a work in progress. NEED MORE $$$$$
Last edited by rob_acuraoflynnwood; 03-22-2010 at 09:12 PM.
03-22-2010, 10:20 PM
#53
Racer
- Stickshifts are far faster, close to a second faster for the TL SH-AWD.
- Most SCCA and other enthusiast driving is done with sticks. Even last year, the students and instructors at ProFormance Racing at SIR had a definite manual tranny bias.
) before for real benefit.
03-23-2010, 08:08 AM
#54
Yes... and minivans/SUVs outnumber AWD sports-sedans too. They aren't the target audience and most of them don't care about performance.
Well, except for the two facts that...
Maybe they can do both, but your argument is roughly analogous to... (note - the following is not a real quote)
in that your premise is wrong. Honda Accord buyers, and Slushbox FWD TL drivers, chose economy over maximizing performance and on average will be less likely to spend a lot more later to improve performance when they could have spent a less-more (like that? ) before for real benefit.
Well, except for the two facts that...
- Stickshifts are far faster, close to a second faster for the TL SH-AWD.
- Most SCCA and other enthusiast driving is done with sticks. Even last year, the students and instructors at ProFormance Racing at SIR had a definite manual tranny bias.
Maybe they can do both, but your argument is roughly analogous to... (note - the following is not a real quote)
in that your premise is wrong. Honda Accord buyers, and Slushbox FWD TL drivers, chose economy over maximizing performance and on average will be less likely to spend a lot more later to improve performance when they could have spent a less-more (like that?
) before for real benefit.
03-23-2010, 08:11 AM
#55
We had already sent down a automatic model before we switch it with a manual car. We switched it because we are the proud owners of Oregon Raceway. We wanted a manual to showcase the ability of CT-E's products. After we received my TSX back from them with almost an extra 100hp over stock, my owner took it out and switched the cars before I knew what happened. I am sure that as soon as the manual car is done we will be sending a automatic. To the best of knowledge every car that CT-E needs we will be sending them.
BTW I believe that we will be having some Acurazine track days at our track. Check it out online and let me know what you think. It is still a work in progress. NEED MORE $$$$$
BTW I believe that we will be having some Acurazine track days at our track. Check it out online and let me know what you think. It is still a work in progress. NEED MORE $$$$$
03-23-2010, 08:23 AM
#56
Drifting
We had already sent down a automatic model before we switch it with a manual car. We switched it because we are the proud owners of Oregon Raceway. We wanted a manual to showcase the ability of CT-E's products. After we received my TSX back from them with almost an extra 100hp over stock, my owner took it out and switched the cars before I knew what happened. I am sure that as soon as the manual car is done we will be sending a automatic. To the best of knowledge every car that CT-E needs we will be sending them.
BTW I believe that we will be having some Acurazine track days at our track. Check it out online and let me know what you think. It is still a work in progress. NEED MORE $$$$$
BTW I believe that we will be having some Acurazine track days at our track. Check it out online and let me know what you think. It is still a work in progress. NEED MORE $$$$$
Rob - This is awesome that a dealership is so involved with the aftermarket community. I wish there was a dealer like that out here in MA - they'd definitely get my business.
03-23-2010, 11:14 AM
#57
Racer
It's funny, every now and then people talk down to automatic owners. Why? Maybe we have our reasons that we wanted an automatic luxury sedan and not a stick shift. You're a real speed demon in your 1 second faster manual. I'll leave my manuals in my real sports cars (2 doors), not a sedan thank you very much.
What I'm saying is that the typical driver's choice in transmission demonstrates their priorities. They may choose to save the money (FWD vs AWD, since you included FWD in the list) over performance (AWD is not just better handling but has a larger engine), they may choose ease of driving (no constant clutching in traffic) over top performance (the stick is 15% faster and 110 pounds lighter (better cornering) also, correct?).
But I don't mean it as a ding on FWD slushbox drivers. An FWD automatic is a more practical car for most people. Modifying a carefully-engineered production engine to extract another 10% power is not practical!
Again, wrong demographic. It's fools like me who will happily through thousands of dollars at making it faster, not more practical folk. That's where the business case is. You'd be better off trading in your FWD Slush for a fully-warranteed AWD-stick to get the performance than to bolt on a blower.
03-23-2010, 06:33 PM
#58
Ditto. The Acura dealer in Vegas doesn't have a 6MT and the one in Henderson tried to convince me that 6MTs are flying off the lot - so much so that MSRP less $500 was the *best* he could do.
03-25-2010, 08:42 AM
#61
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What worries me more than anything else is how the rear axle LSD is going to stand up to substantially more power delivered to it in repeated full power applications.
And after that I would worry about spot heating in areas where the enhanced cooling of the 3.7 cannot handle it. The J37 is really rather large compared to how that block started out, and some people think that it might be at the end of its life in this iteration because of how it is clear that AHM have provided for enhanced cooling.
Last edited by George Knighton; 03-25-2010 at 08:45 AM.
03-25-2010, 09:06 AM
#62
Coming from a Honda Prelude with the first "SH" moniker appeared, here is something the Prelude community has found out about the ATTS (active-torque transfer system) unit...
The Prelude was rated at 200hp to the crank. Take in a typical drivetrain loss of 11% at the wheels for FWD cars, hell, let's make it 20% for reality's sake, and you'd get 180 wheel horsepower.
It's well known for those that used piggyback tuning systems (that allowed for ATTS to still work) that ATTS would continue to function up to 235whp or 200ft/lb of torque. Ironically, this is the power level that Jackson Racing made their bolt-on supercharger peak at. If you surpass that whp mark, it's widely known that ATTS stops functioning and just acts like an open differential. The sensors sensing all of the torque will also throw a code.
So let's take the HP level increase from 180 to 235 and you'll see it's roughly 31% increase in power before it starts to develop problems.
Now if we apply that to this Comptech Supercharger being used on the SH-AWD drivetrain, we can estimate that:
230whp (what I estimate the 3.7L AWD to produce to the wheels) x 31% = ~70whp
I therefore deduce that the SH-AWD drivetrain can handle at least 300whp before you can expect to encounter gremlins with the whole system.
Of course, there are other things to consider such as the law of diminishing returns, the fact that this drivetrain might be engineered more robustly, the fact that not all TL's have the same exact WHP from the factory, and also the fact that an AWD drivetrain means it could handle more power due to more wheels driving it.
Just thought I'd share my perspective!
The Prelude was rated at 200hp to the crank. Take in a typical drivetrain loss of 11% at the wheels for FWD cars, hell, let's make it 20% for reality's sake, and you'd get 180 wheel horsepower.
It's well known for those that used piggyback tuning systems (that allowed for ATTS to still work) that ATTS would continue to function up to 235whp or 200ft/lb of torque. Ironically, this is the power level that Jackson Racing made their bolt-on supercharger peak at. If you surpass that whp mark, it's widely known that ATTS stops functioning and just acts like an open differential. The sensors sensing all of the torque will also throw a code.
So let's take the HP level increase from 180 to 235 and you'll see it's roughly 31% increase in power before it starts to develop problems.
Now if we apply that to this Comptech Supercharger being used on the SH-AWD drivetrain, we can estimate that:
230whp (what I estimate the 3.7L AWD to produce to the wheels) x 31% = ~70whp
I therefore deduce that the SH-AWD drivetrain can handle at least 300whp before you can expect to encounter gremlins with the whole system.
Of course, there are other things to consider such as the law of diminishing returns, the fact that this drivetrain might be engineered more robustly, the fact that not all TL's have the same exact WHP from the factory, and also the fact that an AWD drivetrain means it could handle more power due to more wheels driving it.
Just thought I'd share my perspective!
03-25-2010, 10:43 AM
#64
Coming from a Honda Prelude with the first "SH" moniker appeared, here is something the Prelude community has found out about the ATTS (active-torque transfer system) unit...
The Prelude was rated at 200hp to the crank. Take in a typical drivetrain loss of 11% at the wheels for FWD cars, hell, let's make it 20% for reality's sake, and you'd get 180 wheel horsepower.
It's well known for those that used piggyback tuning systems (that allowed for ATTS to still work) that ATTS would continue to function up to 235whp or 200ft/lb of torque. Ironically, this is the power level that Jackson Racing made their bolt-on supercharger peak at. If you surpass that whp mark, it's widely known that ATTS stops functioning and just acts like an open differential. The sensors sensing all of the torque will also throw a code.
So let's take the HP level increase from 180 to 235 and you'll see it's roughly 31% increase in power before it starts to develop problems.
Now if we apply that to this Comptech Supercharger being used on the SH-AWD drivetrain, we can estimate that:
230whp (what I estimate the 3.7L AWD to produce to the wheels) x 31% = ~70whp
I therefore deduce that the SH-AWD drivetrain can handle at least 300whp before you can expect to encounter gremlins with the whole system.
Of course, there are other things to consider such as the law of diminishing returns, the fact that this drivetrain might be engineered more robustly, the fact that not all TL's have the same exact WHP from the factory, and also the fact that an AWD drivetrain means it could handle more power due to more wheels driving it.
Just thought I'd share my perspective!
The Prelude was rated at 200hp to the crank. Take in a typical drivetrain loss of 11% at the wheels for FWD cars, hell, let's make it 20% for reality's sake, and you'd get 180 wheel horsepower.
It's well known for those that used piggyback tuning systems (that allowed for ATTS to still work) that ATTS would continue to function up to 235whp or 200ft/lb of torque. Ironically, this is the power level that Jackson Racing made their bolt-on supercharger peak at. If you surpass that whp mark, it's widely known that ATTS stops functioning and just acts like an open differential. The sensors sensing all of the torque will also throw a code.
So let's take the HP level increase from 180 to 235 and you'll see it's roughly 31% increase in power before it starts to develop problems.
Now if we apply that to this Comptech Supercharger being used on the SH-AWD drivetrain, we can estimate that:
230whp (what I estimate the 3.7L AWD to produce to the wheels) x 31% = ~70whp
I therefore deduce that the SH-AWD drivetrain can handle at least 300whp before you can expect to encounter gremlins with the whole system.
Of course, there are other things to consider such as the law of diminishing returns, the fact that this drivetrain might be engineered more robustly, the fact that not all TL's have the same exact WHP from the factory, and also the fact that an AWD drivetrain means it could handle more power due to more wheels driving it.
Just thought I'd share my perspective!
03-25-2010, 12:13 PM
#65
03-25-2010, 02:05 PM
#68
Regardless you are putting more stress on the internals and will shorten the life of the mechanics. Some people expect to get 200,000 miles out of a Honda/Acura with ease, so maybe instead you will get 100,000-150,000 and begin to see problems earlier?
03-25-2010, 04:04 PM
#69
But if you survey people who buy ATs when there's a MT option, the AT people are far less likely to spend time, money, and effort modding their cars.
It's a different set of psychologies and you are the exception to the (general) rule wrt AT owners, which can make things expensive for your modding purposes.
If everyone thought like we (as enthusiasts) do, the TL would have an extra couple hundred hp or so, regardless of transmission.
03-25-2010, 04:57 PM
#70
I would place a solid bet that the amount of automatics far out number the manuals. It's only logical that the majority of the crowd is on automatics and that if they proved it was reliable on that transmission, they will sell way more. I know how all of you stick shift heads love to get on the people with autos about performance, but there's no rationality to your argument. From a business decision standpoint, it would make more sense to develop towards automatics.
Just like it makes more sense to develop for the FWD model since it stands to reason there are more than both Auto/Manual AWDs combined.
Just like it makes more sense to develop for the FWD model since it stands to reason there are more than both Auto/Manual AWDs combined.
03-25-2010, 05:01 PM
#72
TL-SHAWD 6MT Rocks!
we need to all get along here 
afterall I think it's great that Acura decided to build a variety of models for all tastes.
I have 2 questions:
I'm kind of new to superchargers...
Q: Is there any bad issues with adding a supercharger to a TL ?
Q: What's the benefit/risk of adding a SuperCharger vs a Turbo ? (wet or dry)
afterall I think it's great that Acura decided to build a variety of models for all tastes.
I have 2 questions:
I'm kind of new to superchargers...
Q: Is there any bad issues with adding a supercharger to a TL ?
Q: What's the benefit/risk of adding a SuperCharger vs a Turbo ? (wet or dry)
03-25-2010, 06:11 PM
#73
Back From The dead
You give me clean 60 awhp without issues for $4k and I'm in.
03-25-2010, 09:53 PM
#74
Racer
we need to all get along here
afterall I think it's great that Acura decided to build a variety of models for all tastes.
I have 2 questions:
I'm kind of new to superchargers...
Q: Is there any bad issues with adding a supercharger to a TL ?
Q: What's the benefit/risk of adding a SuperCharger vs a Turbo ? (wet or dry)
afterall I think it's great that Acura decided to build a variety of models for all tastes.
I have 2 questions:
I'm kind of new to superchargers...
Q: Is there any bad issues with adding a supercharger to a TL ?
Q: What's the benefit/risk of adding a SuperCharger vs a Turbo ? (wet or dry)
Benefits are more HP and TQ. Risks, blowing the motor if not properly tuned and maintained.
Supercharge vs Turbo? I advise you to look it up, I don't want to be here all night writing a story on it. I have built motors and swapped engines and stuff, so I do know about them, just don't want to spend too much time explaining it.
Wet or Dry? If you are talking about NOS, thats different than SC or Turbo. Again, search its been covered not only here but a search engine called Google or Yahoo! you'll find a lot of articles on it
-DeL
03-25-2010, 10:00 PM
#75
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
The supercharger is in its final stages of assembly and I wont have pictures of it for at least the next couple of weeks. I will try for some of the carbon intake. I have pictures of everything but have been asked not to let them out yet.
As far as everyhing goes all we can do is guess what might or might not happen. That is why we are going to be the test mules. I have been driving my TSX hard for the almost 7k miles without a flaw, so we will be doing the same on the TL well before it gets to market. So if there is going to any problems we should find it first.
I do know the car hates the dyno and it is not easy to get an accurate reading with all the sensors on the car.
As far as everyhing goes all we can do is guess what might or might not happen. That is why we are going to be the test mules. I have been driving my TSX hard for the almost 7k miles without a flaw, so we will be doing the same on the TL well before it gets to market. So if there is going to any problems we should find it first.
I do know the car hates the dyno and it is not easy to get an accurate reading with all the sensors on the car.
03-25-2010, 10:43 PM
#76
TL-SHAWD 6MT Rocks!
03-26-2010, 12:33 AM
#77
Racer
sorry, i don't mean to sound like an @ss, but the quickie between the superchager vs. turbo.
SC= No Lag but less HP/TQ gain compared to Turbo
Turbo=Mild-Major lag (depending on the size of the turbo) but with lots of HP/TQ
NOS= BooM!! personally, i don't like NOS
-DeL
SC= No Lag but less HP/TQ gain compared to Turbo
Turbo=Mild-Major lag (depending on the size of the turbo) but with lots of HP/TQ
NOS= BooM!! personally, i don't like NOS
-DeL
03-26-2010, 01:59 AM
#79
we need to all get along here
afterall I think it's great that Acura decided to build a variety of models for all tastes.
I have 2 questions:
I'm kind of new to superchargers...
Q: Is there any bad issues with adding a supercharger to a TL ?
Q: What's the benefit/risk of adding a SuperCharger vs a Turbo ? (wet or dry)
afterall I think it's great that Acura decided to build a variety of models for all tastes.
I have 2 questions:
I'm kind of new to superchargers...
Q: Is there any bad issues with adding a supercharger to a TL ?
Q: What's the benefit/risk of adding a SuperCharger vs a Turbo ? (wet or dry)
The benefit of a S/C over a turbo has also been summarized very well - in general, a S/C (roots, whipple, or lysholm) can produce boost pressure at very low RPM. In fact, a roots (or other "positive displacement") S/C makes roughly the same boost pressure over a very wide range of RPM.
Note these statements are not true for a centrifugal S/C (think Vortech).
Turbos are theoretically more efficient and produce less parasitic drag on the engine but it is almost impossible to get a linear power curve out of turbocharged engines, especially at part throttle. It is relatively easy to get more boost out of a turbo if staying within the performance envelope.
S/Cs can be noisy if the gearing inside is not optimized correctly (a constant whine) and increasing boost pressure may require a pulley swap. They also can produce substantial parasitic drag; top fuel dragsters' S/Cs consume about 400 hp at idle. When your vehicle can run a 1/4 mile in about 4 seconds, that's a tradeoff you can live with.
Intercooling is pretty much required for both applications on modern, high-compression engines.
HTH.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercharger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharger
03-26-2010, 03:46 AM
#80
Think very long and hard about that S4, my friend. I'll tell you what won me over to the TL:
7) Audi dealers are wankers. I arranged to test drive an S4 via online correspondence with Desert Audi (Las Vegas). When I arrived, the internet lady pawned me off on a salesperson, who I'd met about 6 months prior. He bluntly asked me when I was thinking about buying even though I'd made it clear to the internet lady via e-mail that I was cross shopping the TL. I told him the truth and he said that the only one they had was the one in the showroom and, "Someone's working a deal on that one." He offered to call me if another one came in but having wasted 30 minutes, I turned heel and told him not to bother. Bye bye Audi.
7) Audi dealers are wankers. I arranged to test drive an S4 via online correspondence with Desert Audi (Las Vegas). When I arrived, the internet lady pawned me off on a salesperson, who I'd met about 6 months prior. He bluntly asked me when I was thinking about buying even though I'd made it clear to the internet lady via e-mail that I was cross shopping the TL. I told him the truth and he said that the only one they had was the one in the showroom and, "Someone's working a deal on that one." He offered to call me if another one came in but having wasted 30 minutes, I turned heel and told him not to bother. Bye bye Audi.