I hate cars

Let me start by saying I have this car sometimes. It's been miserable in the summer here with the pinging and absolutely no power. I'm averaging 13mpg in the city over the past month because I have to go 3/4 throttle just to stay even with traffic from a redlight.

In a near rage last week while staring at the 13mpg and having the pedal near the floor just to keep up with the focus next to me, I pulled into a motorcycle race shop and picked up 5 gallons of 109 unleaded and added it to 1/2 tank of 91.

It's been 7 days now so I feel I can comment on this. If it would've been a 1-2 mpg increase I would've given it a full month to get a good average. I reset my MID when I put the gas in. Right now it's on 19 in pure city driving. I do basically the same drive every day. I only need the usual 1/4 pedal to keep up with other cars now. WOT power is about the same as winter, this thing actually runs good now.

Keep in mind, if Honda had tuned the car right from the factory, race gas should make no difference. This shows just how bad these things are tuned.

Aman

I didn't even know 13 mpg was possible in these cars. The weather can't have THAT much of an effect on it. But nice pickup on the 109 octane gas. It would be cool to see what it could do under optimal conditions. I wonder if youd save money springing for 109 octane all the time, with the better mileage.

I hate cars

It's been 105-108 lately. The car starts out ok and after 10 minutes or so it's gutless. The computer is just pulling too much timing. It's so bad that I turn off the AC just to help it get moving.

5 gallons is $75 so I doubt I could ever come close to breaking even, but I'm going to try reducing the ratio to 2.5 gallons and see what happens. Still, the dollar per octane, it's cheaper than going with the more common 100 unleaded.

andyc123

???? There is definitely something wrong with your car if it's pinging on 91. Obviously it's not going to have the balls your GN does (beauty, by the way) but it shouldn't be all that slow, nor get only 13 mpg. You're right though, there is something out of tune, but it sounds like yours has an issue somewhere. The octane boost should do much other than stop the pinging, which shouldn't be happening in the first place. Just my 2 cents.

I hate cars

I agree, but take a look at the 50 page thread on "valve chatter" even though it's not valve chatter (no such thing) but it's pinging. These cars have a tendency to ping in hot climates and it's well documented yet Acura won't do a thing about it. I've been through this over the years and everything possible has been tried. Unfortunately my options are to move to a cooler place, run high octane gas every summer, or try my luck with a methanol inection kit.

It's nice to have a smooth powerband back too. No more surging as it pulls timing, just a smooth powerband.

Just saw my first sentence in the first post, I meant to say sometimes I hate this car lol.

Dave_W

I wonder if anyone will come out with a mass air kit for the 3G TL. If not somebody needs to come out with a reflash for the NA cars thats readily availible. I don't really feel like driving my car to Cailifornia for a reflash if you know what I mean.

I hate cars

Mass air would be wonderful, especially for the modded guys. I can't believe Honda still uses speed density though I guess it's not that bad as long as you keep the car stock.

A reflash would totally solve this problem. Take out a few degrees of timing based on inlet air temp and problem solved. The problem now is that once it starts to ping, the computer has to pull so much timing to stop it that you end up losing a ton of power. If it pulled a few degrees before it pinged it would be fine with minimal power loss.

Aman

I can't understand how you can have THAT much of a difference, however. 13mpg is absolutely ridiculous. Have you talked to other TL owners in your area? What have they said? IMO at 13 mpg you might want to get another car.

I hate cars

I need to add, part of this gain could be due to the burn rate of the gas. I don't know the specs, I'm used to the C14 and C16 116 octane leaded gas. C14 is 110 octane and actually has a faster burn rate than pump 91. I'm going to see what the characteristics of this 109 fuel are. I noticed that the gas evaporated instantly from the funnel, the specific gravity is different, it could've temporarily affected mixtures until the short term trim could compensate.

I hate cars

Just looked at the gas. It does have a quicker burn rate and better cooling (at the injection point). That may explain the extra power at WOT. It does feel faster now than it ever has but I'm hesitant to make that statement because I'm so used to it being gutless. Maybe I'll get a dyno just for fun before I run out of this gas.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

I am in Phoenix. It is well over 110 most of the time and I have no discernible change in power since summer began, running the crummy 91 premium they stick us with.

sixsixfour

I also dump 100 octane in the tank during summer months. I had the car logged and right around 4-4500 the car pulls timing anytime ambient air outside is around 80 degress, especially more so under heavy load (a/c). could just be the 91 most stations here get is shitty, but the car definitely pulls timing. a little cooler air and/or better fuel improves the car.

i can personally attest to i hate cars' remarks about using less throttle to wake the car up with better fuel in the tank. the car definitely comes alive. during the cooler months it isnt so bad, but every summer since i got the car, my sop was to dump a few gallons of 100 unleaded to smooth out the performance.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

I am not disputing him, I know he knows what he is talking about, I am just surprised by his results seeing as I have very good power & mileage in hotter weather.

It was 116 yesterday, I filled up the tank on 295 miles with 14 gallons for a combined city/highway just above 21mpg, I have a pretty heavy foot so imho this is good mileage.

Average temperature of the entire tank was well over 105.

This tank was down a bit from the usual 23 I get.

Jesstzn

Its been hoovering in the area of 100 F here the last few days and I have experienced no performance change on the 92 we get here ... I think if your running 3/4 throttle to keep up when on 92 you have other issues. Or a combination of issues, maybe due to mods?

I hate cars

Hoovering in the area of 100F is fine. It's like someone flips a switch when it hits 105.

csmeance

have you though about meth injection to see if it helps out? I would have your cooling system checked out, if it's pulling so much timing to the point of needing 3/4 throttle to pull away from a light, something is off. At 3/4 throttle, I'm probably at 4K RPM before it shifts.

I hate cars

Definately. I was going to steal the meth off the GN this weekend but I realized I didn't have a small enough jet.

The temp guage doesn't move off of normal but I know it's buffered. Not sure just how hot it has to get to move but I've had the scanner on it last summer on a very hot day and it ran 198 regardless of how hard I ran it.

What I can do is maually shift it at 3-4K and use much less throttle. It seems worse at low rpms.

I drove it again today and with my usual old man driving style, it pulls cleanly from 1,500rpms to the 2,200rpm shift point. I'm going to run some water through the intake to try and break up any carbon in the chambers. I don't like doing this to catalytic convertor equipped cars but I'm out of options.

PhillyxMartin

iTrader: (2)

I'm also getting 13mpg city driving. I think it might be the octane of gas...I'm using 89 octane I'll switch and see if I get better mpg

sixsixfour

using lower octane will definitely kill your mpg.

when you run mid grade fuel, the fuel pre-detonates in the high-compression environment coupled with the higher intake air temps. the system pulls timing and dumps more fuel to cool down the mixture. you lose power in the reduced ignition timing and your MPG drops because the car is using more fuel to cool the intake charge to prevent detonation.

MR1

What mods do you have that affect mileage?
I have the exact same weather 100 miles north. I doubt that many of us here in the valley are getting the same crappy characteristics that you are. My worst mileage over the past three months is about 14.5mpg. That's with an automatic driven in heavy traffic on city streets. I use Valero 91 octane. I don't doubt your results but it has to be something strange, not normal for the car.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

I get 14-15mpg on 93 Octane Gas, I pump Shell V-Power all the time.

I hate cars

I would probably get 14 to 15 if the redlights weren't so messed up here. I've written the local paper to try and figure it out. I can never make two lights in a row. I've tried flooring it from every light until I'm nearly into triple digits, driving slow, driving normal, these lights are timed so that we have to stop for each and every one. They're so perfectly timed that there's no chance it's by accident.

georgegiorgio

I miss high octane unleaded fuels... where you guys getting it?

I hate cars

They used to have 100 at the pump but no more. I get mine at a motorcycle shop. It's $575 for a 55 gal drum or $75 for the 5 gallon drum. Much cheaper by the 55 gal but I'm going to run some water through the intake this weekend to decarbonaize. Hopefully this takes care of the issue.

chayos00

Sorry to drag this from the dead, but I've got to ask the "decarbonaizeing" of your car did you do this? Did it work? I'm really curious!

I hate cars

No noticeable change. It really wasn't expected because there's just nothing to decarbonize below 200,000 miles but I tried it as a last resort. This is the same thing people are trying to do with Seafoam except water is free, works just as well, and if you spray it with a mister, chances of damaging the engine are much lower.