MyBlackBeauty

Hello Everyone

I have seen a lot of debate between the Q50 and the TLX but has anyone thought/cross shopped the 2015 Genesis against the aforementioned?

I test drove one and there are my thoughts. Again, just my thoughts.

The exterior looks and feels a lot better/premium than the TLX and the Q50 both.

The interior is a lot better than the Q50. The TLX, we have yet to see.

The materials used in the interior of the Genesis are not cheap anymore but they don't look premium either.

The drive is good but not great and I was comparing it with my 2011 TL SH-AWD. My TL drove like it's on rails especially going around corners at high speeds. In the Genesis, you could feel the RWD biased AWD system. It wasn't as solid on the road. I didn't feel as confident throwing it around corners as I did in my TL and now in my ZDX.

That being said, there is plenty of power, and it's very peppy.

The seats LOOK as if they would be very comfortable but once you're in them, they are good but not great, unless the higher trim came with better seats since the once I test drove was definitely not fully loaded.

It does however drive better than a Lexus GS350 and even the BMW 535i (Blasphemy, I know).

hadokenuh

Thanks for the review. To be honest, if I am above 50 and want a luxury cruiser, I'll get the Genesis in a heart beat. I am not a huge fan of Hyundai but they have come a long long way. I think in 10-20 years, they will beat Honda in every category.

Stew4HD

What makes you say that Hyundai will ever beat Honda?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

The Genesis is a class higher and a size larger than the TLX and is also reflected in price.

I'd also wait for the TLX road tests which should come out next week.

This preview looks very promising though:
http://www.torquenews.com/1574/2015-...ormance?page=1

nttstt444

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, the TLX certainly isnt in the same class as the Genesis. A friend at work has the has an r-spec Genesis , and let me tell you its quite the car. Hyundai was junk years ago but they have come a long long way. Their current lineup is much more exciting then anything Acura has these days imo.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

should be titled "my review of the Genesis."

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, I disagree about the Genesis being in a class higher than the TLX.

MyBlackBeauty

It's stylish enough for any age group to drive. I am under 40 and see myself driving it. I think they already have beaten the Japanese in terms of design at least.

MyBlackBeauty

I agree

MyBlackBeauty

Ever seen an Acura TL being compared to a 5 series or an E Class? I didn't think so. Yet you will find tons of comparisons on YouTube by Auto Journalists between the Genesis and the Big 3.

MyBlackBeauty

Not at all. I shared my experience and was wondering what other people thought of the comparison and if they test drove or if they would even cross shop a Genesis with a TLX.

MyBlackBeauty

The Genesis starts at CAD 43000 and the TLX V6 starts at CAD 41690 which brings them within CAD 1500 of each other, I think they are pretty comparable. Hyundai has always benchmarked the Big 3 for their luxury cars specifically Mercedes and it shows. Hence the proportions are very similar or slightly bigger.

In Canada, the TLX won't hit the showrooms until the end of August I have been told by the sales guy at Acura.

Although it's nice to read good things about Acura, this preview doesn't mean much because, they haven't actually driven the car so I don't know how they are speaking with such conviction about it's performance and fuel economy. The numbers provided by the car maker are under ideal conditions and the real world tests are different.

BEAR-AvHistory

Think this is of interest:

"J.D. Power has presented three Hyundai vehicles – 2014 Genesis, 2014 Elantra and 2014 Accent – its highest award for initial quality in their respective segments.

Hyundai ranked fourth overall in initial quality, climbing six spots from last year, and was the highest-ranked non-premium brand."

dysonlu

Which has little to do with beating a company in every category.

Stew4HD

What big 3 are you talking about? I drove a Genesis and found it feels like a boat

JM2010 SH-AWD

Yes, in fact quite a few times. A lot of us 4G owners cross-shopped the 535 with the TL. I know which one won my personal comparo.

fsttyms1

Size wise the Genesis is a class/category above the TLX, it should be compared with the RLX now.

fsttyms1

Well this would be a good place to start.
And i bet the 2015 results will place Hyundai 1 place below at min to Acura, most likely above them

silver3.5

Haven't seen the TLX in person so it's hard to make assumptions but the R-Spec sure looks good! I wouldn't mind owning one!

Stew4HD

Oh, so it's J.D. Power that decides who's on top of who? My reply was about Hyundai beating Acura/Honda in every category.

As I said, Acura just sucks and needs to just go away. It has no business making cars......

fsttyms1

flunder

When I am buying a fridge, I set out to buy 25cuft and see what is available... Whether I ended up with a Subzero or GE Cafe depends on personal preference and priority. :-) Yeah, mine kicked the bucket so you know what other things are on my mind...

Back to the topic...other than purely for the money, I never understood why TL is compared with 3, A4 and C as they were never on my radar due to the [lack of] size. I did also cross shop TL among E, 5 and A6... When my wife gave me the go-ahead for stick, TL was a trivial choice based on relevant content/price with AWD ;-) Relevant content is subjective just as personal preference and priority...

dysonlu

Not sure why car shoppers would use a survey about what other people like after 90 days of the vehicle ownership. An individual's needs, priorities, tastes and expectations are different. Besides, opinion after 90 days and after 90 weeks could be very different.

jjsC5

Interesting comparison in that I have both a 550 BMW and a new GS350 that replaced our 2012 Acura TL SH-AWD. I have not driven a Genesis yet but have sat in one and plan to drive them.

Your comments about handling are no surprise at all. All the tests say that the car is simply not aimed at people who are into a pure sports sedan. It is tuned more for luxury. BTW, our GS handles AND rides very well. It's suspension is noticeably better than my 550 M-Sport.

Thanks for your review.

MyBlackBeauty

I am on my second Acura but there is no shame in admitting if another car maker is better.

jjsC5

Purely speaking your are correct. But in the real world people compare a lot of very different car. For my next car I'm all over the place in what I am considering right now. The comparison to the TLX is closer to the Genesis than the RLX if you compare feature for feature. To get ventilated seats in an RLX the car will list for $61,000 and you will get a car with less horsepower than the V6 Genesis.

dysonlu

Maybe I just don't get the significance of this. So can you explain what that survey's about and how this is solid argument that company A is beating company B in every category? What is "better"?

MyBlackBeauty

The Big 3 is a common term used for Mercedes, BMW and Audi.

Did you drive the 2015 Genesis?

MyBlackBeauty

I agree. I enjoyed my TL very much and I wasn't talking about us comparing the TL to the Big 3 but what the Auto Industry thinks. They don't think the TL is comparable to the mid size sedans offered by the Big 3.

MyBlackBeauty

I have driven the RLX. Drives very nicely. It's quiet and brisk for it's size. The interior and exterior design is what I didn't like and the Genesis wins even if it's compared to the RLX.

MyBlackBeauty

That's what I said, we yet have to look and feel the TLX in person but as far as the pictures go, the Genesis has a better interior and exterior design.

The Genesis R-Spec is a good point you raised. If you want a car with 400+hp and want to go with Audi or Mercedes, you are looking at CAD 85,000+ starting price. Japanese don't offer a mid-size sedan with 400+hp so if you want all that power without breaking your bank, the Genesis R-Spec is available for CAD 62,000.

MyBlackBeauty

Agreed. The 2015 Genesis is a luxury sedan, not a sports sedan. For that, they have reserved the R-Spec. Can't speak for the 550i, I never drove it but I can say, at least I felt that my 2011 TL drove AND handled better than the 2012 535i. As for the GS350, I felt a LOT of body roll but again, the one I test drove was NOT an F-Sport.

winstrolvtec

It's a little hard to place some cars nowadays, too many variables and categories, many of which can actually be subjective. I think you can place the Genesis as the top of the line mainstream/economy cars or as far as a mid level luxury sedan with all in between because there are simply not enough standards that determine this.

Most would agree that people typically compare a lot of different cars including type and category so long as it falls within a given price range. Others know a little more of what they want and maybe focus on size and category and then see what is available throughout, in a narrower sense. I'm sure there are those that go to a specific brand dealer maybe just because it's local and drive home with something the salesmen steered them towards and maybe those that had a monthly cap or budget on payment (let's say lease) and simply went with the most car they could get for that amount be it sedan, SUV or coupe, etc. No telling really.

Will say, that at best, the TL did get honorable mention next to other mid size luxury sedans but never the privilege of a comparo from the popular magazines that sell the most ad space. Then again, they always had the RL for that market in the first place but at the same time, Hyundai does have the Equus and Hyundai is still not a luxury brand officially nor has a separate division but that may change eventually.

Just strange that a company without any real luxury distinction gets it's Genesis compared directly next to cars like the BMW 550, for example. Credit to them but I also feel that they get a huge free pass simply because of RWD and V8 as did the CTS to a lesser degree which Caddy eventually re-positioned or reinforced it's position with the larger XTS and smaller ATS, where the TLX is supposedly smaller now anyway and Acura is pushing it as a mid level and mid sized which may or may not be technically true but then again, it may.

We live in a time when you could have opposing sets of the same facts and both are labelled facts to mean the same thing. For example, there is more than one way that determines size rank or category and mid level is probably the new entry since most have added another vehicle there anyway.

As far as big three, it's probably demographic specific but I would disagree and say that this is MB, BMW and Lexus, as far as the states go at least. I know others would suggest otherwise but truth be told, historically there were other brands often labelled the same which no one has even mentioned here and Audi does not have that presence, the support, or the lineup in some parts of the world to be called that IMO. Maybe it's big three German brands or something. However, I guess when push comes to shove anyone can all anything whatever they want, much like I just suggested above, so it doesn't really matter.

MyBlackBeauty

This was an APEAL study which stands for Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout which covers pretty much everything.

SSFTSX

how is Genesis class higher than TLX?. It is only price higher because it has higher content. Put more content in TLX and it will be price higher than Genesis.
There are 4 cylinder decontent A8 and S class in EU.
You can load BMW 335i to price similar to BMW 740i.

hadokenuh

Let's look at the companies at a high level rather than those surveys for a moment.

At this moment, for main stream cars, pretty much whatever Honda is able to do, Hyundai can do the same. Sales numbers over the years are getting closer and closer. IMO the only 2 things Hyundai is missing right now are: public perception (as cheap & unreliable cars) and ability to build luxury cars.

But they are very smart with these strategies to counter them:

1. Longer warranty. How good their warranty is is a different story but all the public knows is they get 10yr/100K mile warranty.

2. Drive train keeps getting better and better over the generations. Tiburon was a joke but look at the Genesis coupe. Remember the public only cares HP and MPG numbers in this regard. Handling comes right after HP and MPG. Sure, Hyundai cars can't compare in the handling department with even Lexus or Infiniti yet, but against Toyota/Honda products, I think they are close.

3. Give people "cool" extra toys/electronics that can be found on more expensive cars. For example, rear heated seats, ipod/bluetooth streaming audio on entry level cars, alloy wheels, visually appealed front seats, etc. If you pay attention, this is actually one of the strategies Korean companies have been using favorably to overcome the Japanese, e.g. Samsung phones vs. Sony/Sanyo phones, Samsung/LG TVs vs. Sony TVs, you get the idea.

4. They are not afraid to copy good designs from successful companies. Why re-invent the wheel? This is actually where the Japaneses are shooting their own feet with their PRIDE. I am not saying the Koreans have no pride but you do save a lot of resources going this route.

5. Attempt to build luxury cars. Again, give the public what they want: RWD, V8, smooth & quiet ride, top notch materials, nice/executive design. Before you know it, they will release a sport compact sedan with RWD and potent V6. We all know Honda/Acura will stick with their V6/V6 + Hybrid and SHAWD platform. Let's not debating RWD vs SHAWD. The point is Honda has been proven to be extremely afraid to take any risk or even change. One bad move can kill them (For example: 4G TL).

Which brings to my next point that Honda is a small company. IMO (I don't have hard numbers on hand) Hyundai is bigger as a company. I also think (I don't know for sure) they are highly motivated by the Korean government. After all, it's their only chance to complete with other car makers. (Hyundai and Kia are the same company. Daewoo is another big one but their focus is different from Hyundai/Kia.

With all that said, I think it's just a matter of time before Hyundai surpasses Honda. I think they will beat Honda in every category in 10-20 years.

BEAR-AvHistory

Hyundai/Kia at the end of 2013 was the 4th largest car manufacturer in the world & Honda was 8th.

They have come a long way since 1967 & the parent company has plenty of money to invest in the brand. I think hiring the head suspension guy from Lotus will help them eliminate the, it does not handle well knock

dysonlu

... for the first 90 days of ownership. Hard to believe that would include things such as reliability, safety and resale value.

dysonlu

1. Well, how good the warranty is is perhaps another story but it is relevant. But still, longer warranty doesn't mean better product or a recipe for success. Look at Mitsubishi.

2. Sure. But the other players aren't standing still either. We can all agree that competition gets better and everyone's close to each other but the last mile, so to speak, is the toughest to cover -- getting right the very little details that separate you from the competitor is the hard part. Actually surpassing the others is even harder. Decades ago, there was a big gap in reliability between german and japanese vehicles. The gap has narrowed since but still, overall, the japanese products are more reliable. And germans didn't lack resources, far from it. Same with handling: how couldn't Lexus quite duplicate (or better) the handling of a BMW?

3. That one, I concede. With huge resources, you can offer features for cheaper. However, quality of implementation, such as ease-of-use, reliability or dependability, is not guaranteed.

4. It's a double-edged sword. Copy too much and too often and people will tag you as a cheap copycat brand. It may not matter in the low-end market but you're shooting yourself in the foot in the mid to high-end segments.

5. This one I agree. The all-important halo effect.

If by "beat", you mean sales numbers, then I concede Hyundai will most likely surpass Honda in most categories -- all categories? That's a bold prediction -- mainly because of two reasons: 1) more resources, thus similar product but cheaper and 2) China: with anti-Japanese sentiment over there, any non-japanese car companies will likely see more growth than do Japanese companies.

If by "beat", you mean better overall product quality, I don't think so.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

sure, but the general public hasnt even seen or sat in a TLX.