Sarlacc

You should read the idiocy he comes up with in the R&P forums.

Martin W

That's the point. They made advanced and beautiful RL 2G, but place it on wheels (rims) with awfully boring design and tires that besides SH-AWD place it handling a little bit lower than 530i - so common customer doesn't even know how innovative SH-AWD was in 2004-2005.

But nowadays there is so much car makers with flashy design, copying ideas and lines one from another, so it is very difficult to excite anybody without losing current buyers..
ZDX was such a bright model (with black painted beak ), but it seems in Russia (where there isn't official Acura dealers) it is more popular then in United States, though it was good in all sides..

Sarlacc

and this is the 2015 200

Sarlacc

The ZDX is and always has been a giant pile of shit. Beak or no beak its a horrendous design with NO function. The rear pillars are SO slanted pretty EVERYONE smacks their heads on them getting in the back seats...where is the utility in that on a utility based sport hatch? They tried to copy BMW and they failed miserably.

And really, how innovative is SH-AWD.....as innovative as when Honda offered 4WS? As innovative as when Honda offered the Type SH...the pre-cursor to SH-AWD? The market dominance for AWD is Quattro and Subie...Acura did nothing to prove theirs is any better than anyone else.

Costco

I don't disagree with you as far as "sensible luxury". But a 1990 3-series is hardly anything like the 3-series of today. If you consider constantly pushing the edge as far as tech and luxury features go for a car in its price range, while maintaining sportiness then sure... BMW is doing what they've always done.

The point here is that the sales numbers say a lot. And what it says is more important to Acura that what all of us here have to say, combined. BMW sales obliterate Acura month to month, every month.

Martin W

Yes, but actually SH-AWD is much better than Subaru AWD (I had two Subies before RL) - poor marketing by Acura again.
Don't have much experience with Quattro - but it seems it is the same Torsen, like in Subaru VTD version of AWD..

Sarlacc

poor marketing indeed.

And at this point to the consumer its just branding.

X-Drive, SH-AWD, Quattro, etc etc etc

Acura is their own worst enemy.

SSFTSX

$30K Accord V6 has LED headlight and is so much faster and refined than 4 banger BMW 3/A4 2.0T/C250. and above all Accord has rear seat space.

There is no guarantee that base model latherte type interior of German are better than Accord Leather interior
32K base TLX 4 cylinder still have similar interior space as Accord and better fuel economic due to 4 cylinder engine.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Cool.

Sarlacc

Story.

ttribe

Bro.

Yumcha

qingcong

So, you yourself cross shopped between an M3 and a BRZ and ended up choosing the BRZ. BMW is the end all car of all time apparently, but you had your own legitimate reasons to choose the BRZ, totally cool. Likewise, you of all people should acknowledge that maybe the TLX has legitimate points cross shopped with the 3 series. You had your own reasons for choosing a BRZ, other people think the TLX has redeeming qualities. No big deal as I see it.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

I've seen more than a few posts in this thread claiming acura was a "leader" in the luxury segment in days past. prior to the recession, acura communicated an intention to move into tier 1, but it never happened. thus, acura has never been tier 1 and they are not tier 1 now. in fact, acura had it's best years, in terms of sales, as a non-tier 1 auto maker. so, I don't see acura's success being made by becoming a tier 1 brand, and they've remained consistent in their brand positioning.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

in other words, you don't have a valid rebuttal.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

yep, 3/4 series today is a fat pig compared to the 3-series of yesterday.

acura had their best sales years as a non-tier 1 auto maker, so I don't think it's necessary for acura to become a bmw clone to be successful.

Sarlacc

I gave several. You're just too much in denial to actually read it.

Ignorance is bliss after all.

Sarlacc

No one hear has ever said Acura was leader in luxury.

Once again you hear what you want and read what you want without any basis.

I-G-N-O-R-A-N-T

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

I read everything you've said, and your argument is "because nsx."

Sarlacc

Then yes. You haven't read shit.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

uh huh sure, keep pretending that acura has fallen so far since the 90's, when they were entry level luxury, to today, when they are still entry level luxury.

Hapa DC5

so why even have the catchphrase "Advance" why not stagnant or devolve?

AZuser

I guess I missed those posts then. I've never viewed Acura as a "leader" in the luxury segment. Ever.

They did make some fun and exciting cars though. And some even had road presence. These cars were even capable of holding their own. But not anymore (IMO).

Correct.

Yes. And the key word is had.

The competitive landscape has changed between then and now though. The formula that worked back then isn't working now and hasn't been working for at least the past 7 years. Is becoming tier 1 the answer to success? Whatever the answer is, it's certainly not what they've been doing for the past 7 years.

Acura can start by cleaning house. Get rid of the people who are in the advertising and marketing dept because they haven't got a clue. Then get rid of the people who are designing the cars, or at the very least change the design language.

I think their engineers are still doing a good job though. It's just a shame that it's all covered up by a blanket of . The TLX looks like it might stem the tide. Only time will tell.

Isn't it telling that Honda's own designers aren't even interested in their own cars?

I'm sure many feel the same way about Acura.

neuronbob

Guys, calm down. It's only the Internet. Assertive discussion is OK, we are for the most part on the same side here and mostly disagree on details. Those looking for an efight will be given a week off. Don't make me have to use the ban hammer. I use it rarely but do it when I have to.

qingcong

I feel like this reply was intended for another post because it's not relevant to what I posted.

Sarlacc

It was...thats weird. Not meant for you, sorry.

qingcong

No problem

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

I think there are two main issues, the power plenum design language and the recession.

I get the reasoning behind adopting the power plenum (prior to that, not much difference between an acura grill and a mazda grill), which isn't all that different from bmw's kidney grill and audi's horse collar grill, conceptually speaking. even lexus has their 'x' grill, which I'm not a fan of at this point. bmw had their bangle years (was never a fan of the e60 and it's flame headlights), which I think ultimately strengthened their design language today. unique design language is a great marketing tool.

imo, the tlx is a much better realization of the power plenum than the 4g was, and I'm excited to see how the tlx will look with the a-spec kit. so I see progress there. it seems to me that a lot of folks here haven't even given the tlx a real opportunity.

not sure what you're referring to here.

the impression I get from this thread is that folks seem to think that parroting bmw/audi is the solution for acura; I disagree. I think there is very much still a place for acura in the 'entry level luxury' segment. imo, acura's designs are still classier than hyundai, kia, chrysler, buick, etc.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

the tlx is an 'advancement' over the 4g is just about every way possible, no?

qingcong

I'm curious to see how people will like P-AWS and the transmission offerings. 8DCT with torque converter is an interesting idea, attempting to combine the lightning shifts of a DCT with the refinement a torque converter brings, but I wonder if there is a trade off in using the torque converter; for example additional losses, sloppy gear changes, or something.

VTEC Racer

We'll find out soon enough when the reviews come out next month. But from what I understand, the main purpose of the torque converter is to facilitate smooth starts from a stop, something which has been an issue for VAG and BMW DCTs. Once on a roll, I imagine up-shift smoothness could be modulated by the clutch/pressure plate itself rather than the torque converter.

MeehowsBRZ

[QUOTE Mongo]
Clearly the key to making the TLX great is to make a Type S with 325hp. That car would have 5hp MORE then a M235 and 25 MORE hp then a 335. They could brand it as the car that has more hp then every BMW except the 550, 550 GT, 650, 650 GC, 750, 760, M3, M4, M5, M6, M6 GC, and some SUVs. That would be amazing. Anyone who disagrees is ridiculous, just clowning, straight clowning like a stunna.
[/QUOTE]

AZuser

While their power plenum certainly hasn't done any favors for them, I disagree that it and the recession were the "two main issues" for the bland/boring and sometimes cars they were putting out.

You want us to believe that Acura's car line up has been in a lull since 2007 because of the power plenum and recession, and that they are also the reasons for why a single Acura hasn't made Car and Driver's 10 Best list since 2006?

I think part of it is because Acura lost their focus, competitive spirit and whatever it was that inspired them. Combine that with their insistence on keeping their Honda+ "brand positioning" and they kept putting out bland/boring cars. Their decision to finally separate Acura from Honda may change that.

I'm referring to the fact that even Honda's/Acura's own designers think their cars are boring and don't want to own one.

Legend2TL

Winning strategy for the Porsche 911, Rolex Submariner, Colt M1911, Boeing 737,...

The key word is "exactly", that rarely happens as there are typically incremental advances.

Only thing I can thing of that Acura made with minor changes was the NSX.

FWIW, the 8000th 737 was delivered this week.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...-isn-t-slowing

Legend2TL

That is sad, never seen that before.

ttribe

What Carbuzz has to say about the production TLX reveal -

Link: http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2014/4/1...vance-7719810/

mylove4cars

You forgot one...
Honda CB750 - 1969

ttribe

Come now. You aren't really comparing unique models of various products which have stood the test of time with an entire line of cars which have been steadily losing market share, are you?

Even at that, the 911 has evolved drastically, despite the continued resemblance in shape and the location of the engine. Last time I checked, the 737 has gone through numerous variants and advancements.

Porsche, Rolex, Colt, and Boeing found a winning design for a single product and wisely stuck with it. Acura has just been stubborn and the market isn't looking at their cars with a feeling of nostalgia. They're looking at them (on average) with a feeling of disinterest.

Sarlacc

PS: Porsche is able to keep building the 911s because they supplement with other popular products (Cayenne)

CarbonGray Earl

Legend2TL, I respect your opinion. Doesn't it go without saying that those are VERY good examples, almost best of breed? I don't think Acura or the TLX belongs in that group. Let's not drag the discussion into broad analogies.

What's the saying...if it ain't broke don't fix it? I don't think that applies to Acura...they are trying to fix Acura, are they not?