Moving2001TL

Excellent! Thank you.

Johnsonbar

Great wrote up, his will be very helpfully as I tackle it on my '01 cl w/nav.

Johnsonbar

Great write up, his will be very helpfully as I tackle it on my '01 cl w/nav.

jdjohn84

Failed attempt for me last weekend. I couldn't get the crank pulley bolt to crack loose. I have the Honda tool, 1/2" drive breaker bars, impact gun, torch...none of it worked. I was literally standing on the breaker bar bouncing up-and-down; the pivot point was supported by a jack stand. I also tried wedging a breaker bar against the suspension control arm and flipping the starter...nope. I'm taking it to a shop to see if they can crack it loose, then tighten it back to 181 ft/lbs; I think I can crack that much, but right now it's totally stuck.

My advice is to try and break that bolt loose first before doing ANYTHING else. I had already drained the coolant, taken off the PS pump, belts, engine mount, dipstick tube, and both upper timing belt covers. I ALMOST forgot to add coolant back after re-assembling everything. I actually cranked the motor without any coolant for a few minutes.

BTW, I was able to access the coolant drain nut on the back of the block. My contorted elbow may never be the same, though.

The PS pump nut behind the pulley was a biatch, along with the rear TB cover bolt. Does anyone know how to remove that fuse box behind the strut and in front of the windshield? With that removed, the rear TB bolt would be easier to access. As it was, I removed the PS hose bracket from the back valve cover and reached around behind the strut bar. Maybe that was what actually screwed-up my elbow.

jdjohn84

Got it cracked. A buddy at work loaned me his cheater bar, and that did the trick. That slow, steady pressure works better than short bursts. Leverage is your friend.

I tightened it back up for the time being, and will probably finish the project this w/e. I'll be installing my Bomz aluminum underdrive pulley at the same time.

totaledTL

jd- you're not too far away. I would come down & help/learn if I didn't have plans this weekend. Maybe you'd be interested in helping me do a wp/tb job sometime? Good luck BTW-

jdjohn84

I'd be happy to help. You could probably just make it a day trip down here if you got any early start.

Boriqua TL

This is of great help. I was able to replace all the parts needed including the water pump with no problems. As mentioned before I too did not need the battery hold down tool. When I took off the front cover and looked at the belt, it almost looked new but, once the belt was removed the rubber felt hard and when I bent the belt to see in between the teeth I could see the rubber cracking. Changed it at 114,257 might have gotten a few thousand more but I'm glad I didn't wait.

jdjohn84

I finished this job last weekend. I did the timing belt, water pump, idler pulley, tensioner pulley, hydraulic tensioner, and put a Bomz underdrive lightweight aluminum crank pulley back on. Of course you basically have to do a coolant change in the process. The best way to get the crank bolt loose is a 4ft cheater pipe slid over a breaker bar with about 18" of extensions attaching the 19mm socket (six-point impact socket), with another breaker bar holding the Honda crank tool in place. Support the cheater pipe and breaker bar combination with a jack stand right underneath the head of the breaker bar where the extensions attach.

A few more thoughts:
- I had to remove the entire side engine mount; this means the 'bridge' mount between the chassis and the engine, the engine mount bracket, and the chassis mount bracket. After supporting the engine from underneath as described earlier, I suggest loosening the big 17mm, horizontally mounted bolt first. If you loosen the vertical bolts first, it will be difficult to loosen the horizontal bolt later. I actually had to remove the bridge mount and chassis mount brackets before I could even access the engine side mount bracket bolts that go into the block.

- There is an engine hoisting bracket behind the power steering pump that can safely be removed if you need more room to get the rear timing belt cover off. The hoisting bracket is bolted onto the engine block, and is basically just a loop that serves no purpose other than providing a place to attach a hook for lifting the engine out of the car. There is a small grounding wire attached to the hoisting bracket that has to be loosened in the process. Removing this hoisting bracket gave me more room to work on that rear timing belt cover.

- Here is a pic of the elusive timing belt adjuster where the battery clamp bolt screws into. It is circled in red.



The idea behind using the battery clamp bolt is that it applies pressure to the top of the tensioner pulley to offset pressure applied to the bottom of the pulley by the auto-tensioner (red arrow). When tightened-down, the battery clamp bolt will hold the pulley in place so you can loosen the IDLER pulley and remove the belt safely. Once the belt has been removed, tension can be relieved from the battery clamp bolt so that the tensioner pulley and auto-tensioner can be removed.

- Speaking of the tensioner pulley, I haven't seen any mention in this thread (or in the service manual) of transferring the metal sleeve bushing from the old pulley to the new pulley. Here are a couple of pics of the metal sleeve bushing and how it fits into the tensioner pulley.





New tensioner pulleys don't come with the metal sleeve bushing, so be sure to transfer it from the old one to the new one. It slides in-and-out easily.

- Re-installing the auto-tensioner and tensioner pulley: bolt both pieces back on, but DON'T pull the pin on the tensioner yet. Tighten the battery clamp bolt back onto the top of the tensioner pulley first. It will help hold the auto-tensioner down until ready. Install the timing belt as described earlier (counter-clockwise starting from the crank pulley), and once any and all slack in the belt is between the rear cam and the crank pulley (i.e., the slack needs to be right where the tensioner pulley is located), THEN pull the pin. The pin is not easy to pull; it is under a lot of pressure. You might bang your hand against the chassis or frame when the pin finally comes out, but battle scars are just part of the process. Once the pin is out, you can finally unscrew the battery clamp bolt, which will slowly allow the auto-tensioner to expand.

The only other thing I can think of mentioning is that the water pump has some guide pins or tabs on it which help line it up and keep it in place for bolting back on. That was handy.

Good luck, guys! With the right tools, you can do it, too!

clint999

Crankshaft pulley bolt 19mm
Seprentine pulley bolt 14mm
TB covers 10mm
PS pump bracket 12mm
WB 10mm
Idler pulley 14mm
TB tensioner 10mm (?)

jdjohn84

The auto-tensioner has two 10mm bolts.
The TB tensioner pulley has just one big bolt...maybe 16mm? In the pic above with the red circle and arrow, it is the big bolt just to the right of the circle.
There are also the motor mounts, which take various sizes...17mm and 14mm, I believe.

For this job, I think you need 10, 12, 14, 16, 17 & 19mm sockets, with both short and long extensions. I would highly recommend six-point sockets with a 3/8" drive; the 19mm crank bolt socket should be an impact socket with a 1/2" drive. What also came in very handy for me are the flat, box-end wrenches with built-in ratchets. These can get into places that a regular ratchet and socket can't. My set has a 3/8" adapter that slides into the 13mm ratchet wrench, and allows you to attach sockets. Again, very handy in those tight spots. Some of these bolts are a little tough to break loose. A few of the motor mounts bolts, and definitely the TB idler pulley and tensioner pulley bolts are really on there. I had to use a breaker bar and cheater pipe on a few of those. Of course the crank pulley bolt definitely requires a cheater bar, and at least a 1/2" drive.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

That's correct, my Helms (CLS-6) manual does not even address the replacement of the the timing belt adjuster pulley assembly and therefore the torque value for the TB adjuster bolt (to the right of your red circle in the pic above) which should be 19ft-lbs.

In regards to the auto adjuster collar, when I did my TB a few months ago, I actually test fitted the new TB adjuster pulley I had purchased without the collar onto the engine just for giggles. It was pretty evident when I placed it on without the collar that there was alot of slop in the mounting of the assembly. So, if one was situationally aware of how the thing was before removal, the difference would be noticed when trying to install one without the collar, at least I could tell.

jdjohn84

Agreed that using the collar is obvious. It's just that some people take these DIY instructions very literally, so leaving out a step could be detrimental. I got flamed for not elaborating on the 'burping procedure' after a coolant change.

acutee

Did you lube the collar before installing it?

jdjohn84

I did not lube it. There was some white residue as you can see in the pic, but I didn't put anything on it. It was quite smooth and moved easily the way it was, so I left it alone.

acutee

Thanks for the feedback.

1blwn_accord

sorry but there are so many pages that its possible this question already got answered but did you have a total cost listed somewhere for all the parts you listed?

jdjohn84

I got a kit for $270 shipped off of eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...52388&viewitem=
This is an Aisin kit, which is OEM - made in Japan. The stock water pump I removed had Aisin stamped on it just like the new one I installed.
Water pump and hydraulic tensioner: Aisin
Idler and tensioner pulleys: Koyo
Timing belt: Mitsuboshi
Shipped fast.

e r y k

iTrader: (2)

i am confused on the instructions from the OP... it says not to tighten the crank pulley bolt? isnt that supposed to be tq'd to liek 181 ftlbs?

jjar03

This is interesting, because I had a big issue trying to pull the pin out, but now when I think of it, as far as I remember Helms manual does not specify that you should put the battery clamp during installation which could be the major trick here. As you said, that pin is under heavy pressure, and the pin itself is very week, only 2mm thick. So in my case, it got bent and stuck when I tried to pull it out. I should mention that I re-used existing tensioner. I was able finally using screwdriver to pry it out and during that process the pin cut through the tensioner wall so to speak but it was good (the only downside is that it cannot be re-used any more or a new whole could be drilled).
So, my question would be, since I am really curious now, is that battery clamp actually causing pulley to be very close to the actual tensioner pin, so that during pin removal, the actual tensioner pin that applies the pressure (not the one you are pulling out) does not shoot out, so it allows you to remove the bloody pin out easier?

jdjohn84

I noticed that, too. I think he meant that you didn't need to tighten it at that point in the process. In other words, it could wait til later. It has to be tightened at some point, though.

I think that is exactly right. My first attempt (without the battery clamp bolt in place) turned out like yours, where the pin got stuck after pulling it free from the first hole. The tensioner piston rod came out a little and put the pin in a bind, which then made it impossible to pull the pin the rest of the way out. I had to remove the belt, tensioner, and pulley in order to get it fixed. I put the tensioner in a vice, pulled the pin out, straightened it the best I could, then put the pin back in. For the second attempt, I screwed the battery clamp bolt down as far as I could against the tensioner pulley, and was then able to pull the pin out. It was still pretty tough, but I got it. Then I unscrewed the battery clamp bolt, and all was good.

Incidentally, the service manual suggests grinding the tip of the battery clamp bolt before screwing it in. It should be a sort of flat-tipped point if that makes sense. Kind of like this:
/---\
That's really bad since the horizontal line should be at the top, but hopefully you get the idea. I did that step, so maybe that helped.

jjar03

What you described exactly happened to me and probably to anybody else who did not know the trick or was not thinking. I was in a hurry to get the job done. Then again, it makes me also think that may be if some tensioners are weaker, other people did not have the same issue since I asked this a few times on this board before and nobody really came with an answer.
I still do not get it when it comes to grinding the tip of the clamp. May be to be able to screw it in easier, but mine went in easy even though I did not grind it at all.
Anyway, that tensioner solution (as opposed to the tensioner on 99 to 01 models) does not seem very good to me.
And one more thing. During timing belt installation, I put the lower tensioner bolt in first, friend ran the belt around and held it, while I raised the tensioner and put the other bolt in place. This was the only way for me that allowed me to put the belt properly and easily in place. Before that, like the manual says, I put the tensioner on, with both bolts but then I was struggling with the belt because tensioner in that case raises the pulley which makes it almost impossible to put the belt properly/easily in place.

bill_talbot

Great job on the write-up. Everything worked well except that I didn't notice my cams were 180 degrees off after changing out the belt. https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-problems-fixes-117/interesting-find-while-changing-timing-belt-my-2002-tl-premium-796383/ It was definately a lessons learned, but is available for everyone to see how I resolved the issue.

An unexpected result from changing out the timing belt though is that the power steering pump started whining after reassembly. Following the steps to change out the power steering pump o-ring for $1 solved the problem (along with saving approximately $300-$500 for a new PS pump.) https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-problems-fixes-114/diy-105-power-steering-whine-fix-754586/
Hence, I recommended changing the o-ring with the timing belt to avoid going through what I did.

Thanks again for the great DIY & keep up the great work!

bill_talbot

The final summary of my timing belt project with part numbers, cost estimates, etc. can be found at https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=796705.

Note the mileage increase reference is due to the other activities referenced before changing out the timing belt.

Good luck.

erehtuo

Awesome thread.
Thanks for all the details and pictures, everything went smoothly.

RUF87

Thanks for the write up, it help me do mine.

One tip to add - may have missed it here . . anyway

when installing the belt itself I used a small C-clamp to hold the belt on the lower gear. I used just enough pressure to keep it from moving, so not too much to damage the belt. I tried this after having having trouble keeping the belt tight while trying to slip it on the last cam gear.

Oh, and if you've haven't had your serpentine belt tentioner replaced, you might want to do it at this time . . . mine went out not too long after all this work.

Ruf

RUF87

I just tightened mine up with the impact. A couple of tech friends both said that the bolt will actually tighten itself up when you run it . . weird, but they and others swore by it. I can say, I had to remove the crank bolt because on the first attempt one of the pully installs was not diagramed correctly on the installation kit so I took it appart to double check it. I had already had the engine running a couple of times and believe it or not, we could not get the bolt back off with an impact or very large breaker bar with the special Honda crank tool. We have to use the breaker bar wedged against the floor and crank the starter one to break it free.

Ruf

e r y k

iTrader: (2)

sorry to bump an old thread.

but is there any way to visually inspect to see if the idler / adjuster pullies are good?

didnt the OP reuse them? i was always under the impression to change them out?

also, is the tq spec for the adjuster pulley really 19ft lbs? doesnt that seem kinda low?

bill_talbot

At 100k I changed my set for a peace of mind. If I owned the vehicle about 50k miles ago the original set probably would have stayed in place as I would have better understood the driving conditions the car has been under for the past few years. To me it was worth the $50+ (or whatever it was) spent to avoid revisiting them at a later date.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

It sounds low; however, that is the correct torque spec. (19 ft-lbs.) for that particular bolt.

You may have seen/read (or not) the thread on the CL side:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=754219&page=5

In Post 198 from pits200's thread he pass' on what he found out from a dealership. He had an issue with his adjuster pulley being tightened to tight, which ultimately led to failure of that bolt and engine damage. Check it out.

e r y k

iTrader: (2)

thank you zeta!

my torque wrench only goes to 20, but i guess thats close enough :P

e r y k

iTrader: (2)

last question...

is there a difference between gates idler pullies and koyo? i understand koyo pullies are oem, but isnt gates a really big manufacturer too?

Bricktop

Thanks for the write up...

I took a shot and replaced the t belt (water pump, etc) today.
I encountered 2 snags; the crankshaft bolt, it was a beast to remove and 2nd was those timing belt covers, such a pain to remove and install...
But i'm glad i did it..

gold2003tl (90)

thanks for the DYI, i tackled the job yesterday with ease. used a super heavy duty 3/4 impact wrench to get that darn crack pulley bolt out, no problem.

my tensioner pulley bearing was trashed and had lots of play in it made noise too, and it was replaced at 17k miles under the recall and was trash at 88500 miles. glad its replaced now.

so thanks again for the dyi, it saved me from going to the stealership and paying out the ass for this.

03Atls

I'm going to hit 100k in the next few months. When do you think I should do my timing belt? If the belt breaks does it crush the valves on a 03 tl -s? From what the Acura Dealer said it is a 50/50 chance of crushing the valves. I thought it either did crush or didn't. I didn't realize that was a maybe. Also what maintenance do you recommended I do a 105k? Thanks in advance.

gold2003tl (90)

^ change the belt asap, if it snaps you will crush valves.

jdjohn84

The service maintenance schedule calls for changing it at 105K miles...or is it 107K? Either way, if you're not yet at 100K, you have a few more months.

texholdem

I thought the pictures being put together this way are easier to follow than on imageshack

texholdem

It is terribly difficult to change the timing belt, involving a lot of other components. I have an 3.2 TL and a 1996 Mercedes E320. On the Mercedes it takes me 15 minutes to replace the serpentine belt and there is only one belt not three. After reading thru this thread I am not sure if I can do it. :-(

Ogolden1

Here are some pros showing us how it's done!

Very Informative!

Great tip about zip-tying the TB to the pulleys for easy installation.

It's on a 2001 MDX, but basically the same as the CL and TL.

[BTW, I got a OE AISIN kit from RockAuto.com for $216.00!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiPfB9zSgS0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE0Mh...feature=fvwrel