Loose Plug? You've got to be kidding me!
07-22-2014, 08:33 PM
#1
2nd Gear
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Loose Plug? You've got to be kidding me!
I have a 2004 TL 6 Spd with just over 75k miles which I purchased new. About a week ago, I began to notice a hesitation in any gear as well as a loud ticking sound which increased in speed with RPM. The CEL has never come on and the car idles perfectly.
After spending the better part of a week reading posts on this forum and others, I decided to head for Autozone and get a free look at any stored OBDII codes that might be present. No real surprise, there were no codes stored. I began to consider a bad APP but the symptoms didn't support replacing it - and being an experienced engineer and having done some engine rebuilding/tuning and repairs, I'm data driven and not a part swapper.
My first inclination was fuel injector noise and I hadn't added any fuel injector cleaner in a while so I dumped some Gumout FI cleaner in the tank and ran it for a few days with no noticeable improvement. Big surprise there....
So out came the stethoscope and a piece of rubber fuel line to use as a probe. The two injectors at the far ends of the intake made similar noise and tried listening to other injectors by placing the hose on top of each intake runner - nothing remarkable heard.
Then I began to listen to the coil packs. Nothing remarkable on any of the front cylinders, just a distinct light "tick" when the plug fired. As I brought the probe within 6" of the rear bank the ticking picked up in intensity near #1 and very loud hovering over #2 (middle cylinder, rear bank) With the probe on top of the coil pack it was making a "thud-thud" sort of sound and I started thinking bad thoughts. My immediate reaction was to swap with an other coil pack but I was skeptical - coil packs shouldn't fail making that type of sound but said what the hell - and swapped it with #5 - no difference.
So I configured an extension and spark plug socket and decided to pull the plug. (love getting behind that dam frame brace- yeah I know, most take it off but I said the heck with it, it was 10 PM last night when I did all of this)
I wasn't sure at first that the socket was seated on the plug because it was turning so easily, then realized it was - and it was spinning. I didn't measure it, but it took approximately 1-1 1/2 turns to tighten it. To say I was blown away was an understatement. But I can't argue with success - I put the coil pack back on, fired it up - no ticking, checked with the stethoscope - no more thud - noise gone! Test drove the car, hesitation gone, runs awesome.
So I called a dealer this afternoon and asked if they've seen this before - answer: yeah, we get a couple cars a year with loose plugs, usually 7+ years and older. Acura U.S. customer service says they've never had reports of this problem and no service bulletins about the issue. Sorry, but this seems a little bizarre as I've never seen this happen unless someone didn't torque the plug correctly. By the way, the car has never had any engine repairs performed and most maintenance and all warranty work was performed at an Acura dealer.
So this weekend, at a minimum, plug #2's coil pack is coming off so I can inspect the plug and I may just replace all the plugs to be on the safe side.
After spending the better part of a week reading posts on this forum and others, I decided to head for Autozone and get a free look at any stored OBDII codes that might be present. No real surprise, there were no codes stored. I began to consider a bad APP but the symptoms didn't support replacing it - and being an experienced engineer and having done some engine rebuilding/tuning and repairs, I'm data driven and not a part swapper.
My first inclination was fuel injector noise and I hadn't added any fuel injector cleaner in a while so I dumped some Gumout FI cleaner in the tank and ran it for a few days with no noticeable improvement. Big surprise there....
So out came the stethoscope and a piece of rubber fuel line to use as a probe. The two injectors at the far ends of the intake made similar noise and tried listening to other injectors by placing the hose on top of each intake runner - nothing remarkable heard.
Then I began to listen to the coil packs. Nothing remarkable on any of the front cylinders, just a distinct light "tick" when the plug fired. As I brought the probe within 6" of the rear bank the ticking picked up in intensity near #1 and very loud hovering over #2 (middle cylinder, rear bank) With the probe on top of the coil pack it was making a "thud-thud" sort of sound and I started thinking bad thoughts. My immediate reaction was to swap with an other coil pack but I was skeptical - coil packs shouldn't fail making that type of sound but said what the hell - and swapped it with #5 - no difference.
So I configured an extension and spark plug socket and decided to pull the plug. (love getting behind that dam frame brace- yeah I know, most take it off but I said the heck with it, it was 10 PM last night when I did all of this)
I wasn't sure at first that the socket was seated on the plug because it was turning so easily, then realized it was - and it was spinning. I didn't measure it, but it took approximately 1-1 1/2 turns to tighten it. To say I was blown away was an understatement. But I can't argue with success - I put the coil pack back on, fired it up - no ticking, checked with the stethoscope - no more thud - noise gone! Test drove the car, hesitation gone, runs awesome.
So I called a dealer this afternoon and asked if they've seen this before - answer: yeah, we get a couple cars a year with loose plugs, usually 7+ years and older. Acura U.S. customer service says they've never had reports of this problem and no service bulletins about the issue. Sorry, but this seems a little bizarre as I've never seen this happen unless someone didn't torque the plug correctly. By the way, the car has never had any engine repairs performed and most maintenance and all warranty work was performed at an Acura dealer.
So this weekend, at a minimum, plug #2's coil pack is coming off so I can inspect the plug and I may just replace all the plugs to be on the safe side.
07-22-2014, 08:38 PM
#2
06 Anthracite TL
You were very lucky that you pursued the issue until you found the loose plug- some haven't been as lucky and had the plug blow out, ruining the threads in the head as a result. I just put in a set of plugs, torqued them properly (13 ft-lbs with anti-seize) and will likely plan on checking them torque wise in ~ 10K miles. This is unfortunately becoming more common with the TL.
07-22-2014, 08:51 PM
#3
Honestly, I bet there aren't any service bulletins on a 'loose plug' because most aren't caught until they've blown out, or melted the coil.
07-23-2014, 07:13 AM
#5
The DVD-A Script Guy
Welcome Vetmann. Unfortunately to us here at AZ this is hardly news. In fact it's pretty old knowledge. I've noticed that there's either a new thread or an old thread gets bumped every month with a new "me too" post. You are VERY lucky you caught it before it blew out. The frequency of new posts got to the point recently that I actually went out and checked mine "just in case" even thought I heard no ticking (and yes, WAY easier to get to the back side if you remove the cross brace). Two of mine were a tad loose but not free spinning like you.
I'm kinda with screaminz28 on this. Not quite a conspiracy but DEFINITELY a dirty little secret that Honda/Acura want to keep that way.
I'm kinda with screaminz28 on this. Not quite a conspiracy but DEFINITELY a dirty little secret that Honda/Acura want to keep that way.
Trending Topics
07-23-2014, 08:28 AM
#8
Race Director
Unfortunately, it's a known issue with the J32 that Acura/Honda chooses to ignore. I don't know if I'm lucky or not, but I've had no issue with a loose plug, either with the factory fill or from when I changed them 64K miles ago at 106K (13 ft-lbs and anti-seize).
I wonder if this issue could have anything to do with the amount of time spent in VTEC? Maybe there is some kind of harmonic vibration that only happens when the J32 is in VTEC? Thoughts?
Those of you that have experienced a loose plug: Do/did you spend a lot of time in VTEC?
Or conversely, those of you who spend a lot of time in VTEC: Have you ever had an issue with a loose plug?
Last edited by nfnsquared; 07-23-2014 at 08:34 AM.
07-23-2014, 08:32 AM
#9
Three Wheelin'
Vetmann just do all 6 plugs to be safe, why risk it. Might as well replace them with new ones while you're at it. Plugs are fairly inexpensive.
I've only seen / had one plug come off on me once, in a 2000 mercury cougar I used to have, with a 2.5L v6 IIRC called Duratec. Came clean off the head. Was not fun and loud!
I've only seen / had one plug come off on me once, in a 2000 mercury cougar I used to have, with a 2.5L v6 IIRC called Duratec. Came clean off the head. Was not fun and loud!
Last edited by FamilyGuy; 07-23-2014 at 08:34 AM.
07-23-2014, 08:41 AM
#10
i abuse my car, hence why i'm called JustonJacks instead of justnspace.
I just recently tore down my engine. I have about 2 bolts left before I can completely take off the heads.
all my spark plugs were tight when I took them out on Saturday. I literally spend all my time driving in vtec. 4k and beyond is where its at!
I bought the car at 31k miles and she now has 71k miles, Im assuming the plugs are from the factory.
they look good too.
I just recently tore down my engine. I have about 2 bolts left before I can completely take off the heads.
all my spark plugs were tight when I took them out on Saturday. I literally spend all my time driving in vtec. 4k and beyond is where its at!
I bought the car at 31k miles and she now has 71k miles, Im assuming the plugs are from the factory.
they look good too.
07-23-2014, 08:46 AM
#11
Race Director
i abuse my car, hence why i'm called JustonJacks instead of justnspace.
I just recently tore down my engine. I have about 2 bolts left before I can completely take off the heads.
all my spark plugs were tight when I took them out on Saturday. I literally spend all my time driving in vtec. 4k and beyond is where its at!
I bought the car at 31k miles and she now has 71k miles, Im assuming the plugs are from the factory.
they look good too.
I just recently tore down my engine. I have about 2 bolts left before I can completely take off the heads.
all my spark plugs were tight when I took them out on Saturday. I literally spend all my time driving in vtec. 4k and beyond is where its at!
I bought the car at 31k miles and she now has 71k miles, Im assuming the plugs are from the factory.
they look good too.
And we now know that hitting curbs and trees doesn't affect the plugs either
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justnspace (07-23-2014)
07-23-2014, 08:55 AM
#12
Stay Out Of the Left Lane
Join Date: Oct 2003
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I've read multiple threads on this but haven't taken the time to check mine. Is this an issue for the J35 as well?
07-23-2014, 11:37 PM
#15
Welcome Vetmann. Unfortunately to us here at AZ this is hardly news. In fact it's pretty old knowledge. I've noticed that there's either a new thread or an old thread gets bumped every month with a new "me too" post. You are VERY lucky you caught it before it blew out. The frequency of new posts got to the point recently that I actually went out and checked mine "just in case" even thought I heard no ticking (and yes, WAY easier to get to the back side if you remove the cross brace). Two of mine were a tad loose but not free spinning like you.
07-27-2014, 12:43 AM
#16
Drifting
He does that a lot. He takes the obscure case and makes it normal. Or he finds the 1 case where someones car caught on fire and acts like it is normal. Just like Obama. He finds the one red hair, and says SEE!!! haha
07-27-2014, 11:07 AM
#17
Intermediate
I have a 2004 TL 6 Spd with just over 75k miles which I purchased new. About a week ago, I began to notice a hesitation in any gear as well as a loud ticking sound which increased in speed with RPM. The CEL has never come on and the car idles perfectly.
After spending the better part of a week reading posts on this forum and others, I decided to head for Autozone and get a free look at any stored OBDII codes that might be present. No real surprise, there were no codes stored. I began to consider a bad APP but the symptoms didn't support replacing it - and being an experienced engineer and having done some engine rebuilding/tuning and repairs, I'm data driven and not a part swapper.
My first inclination was fuel injector noise and I hadn't added any fuel injector cleaner in a while so I dumped some Gumout FI cleaner in the tank and ran it for a few days with no noticeable improvement. Big surprise there....
So out came the stethoscope and a piece of rubber fuel line to use as a probe. The two injectors at the far ends of the intake made similar noise and tried listening to other injectors by placing the hose on top of each intake runner - nothing remarkable heard.
Then I began to listen to the coil packs. Nothing remarkable on any of the front cylinders, just a distinct light "tick" when the plug fired. As I brought the probe within 6" of the rear bank the ticking picked up in intensity near #1 and very loud hovering over #2 (middle cylinder, rear bank) With the probe on top of the coil pack it was making a "thud-thud" sort of sound and I started thinking bad thoughts. My immediate reaction was to swap with an other coil pack but I was skeptical - coil packs shouldn't fail making that type of sound but said what the hell - and swapped it with #5 - no difference.
So I configured an extension and spark plug socket and decided to pull the plug. (love getting behind that dam frame brace- yeah I know, most take it off but I said the heck with it, it was 10 PM last night when I did all of this)
I wasn't sure at first that the socket was seated on the plug because it was turning so easily, then realized it was - and it was spinning. I didn't measure it, but it took approximately 1-1 1/2 turns to tighten it. To say I was blown away was an understatement. But I can't argue with success - I put the coil pack back on, fired it up - no ticking, checked with the stethoscope - no more thud - noise gone! Test drove the car, hesitation gone, runs awesome.
So I called a dealer this afternoon and asked if they've seen this before - answer: yeah, we get a couple cars a year with loose plugs, usually 7+ years and older. Acura U.S. customer service says they've never had reports of this problem and no service bulletins about the issue. Sorry, but this seems a little bizarre as I've never seen this happen unless someone didn't torque the plug correctly. By the way, the car has never had any engine repairs performed and most maintenance and all warranty work was performed at an Acura dealer.
So this weekend, at a minimum, plug #2's coil pack is coming off so I can inspect the plug and I may just replace all the plugs to be on the safe side.
After spending the better part of a week reading posts on this forum and others, I decided to head for Autozone and get a free look at any stored OBDII codes that might be present. No real surprise, there were no codes stored. I began to consider a bad APP but the symptoms didn't support replacing it - and being an experienced engineer and having done some engine rebuilding/tuning and repairs, I'm data driven and not a part swapper.
My first inclination was fuel injector noise and I hadn't added any fuel injector cleaner in a while so I dumped some Gumout FI cleaner in the tank and ran it for a few days with no noticeable improvement. Big surprise there....
So out came the stethoscope and a piece of rubber fuel line to use as a probe. The two injectors at the far ends of the intake made similar noise and tried listening to other injectors by placing the hose on top of each intake runner - nothing remarkable heard.
Then I began to listen to the coil packs. Nothing remarkable on any of the front cylinders, just a distinct light "tick" when the plug fired. As I brought the probe within 6" of the rear bank the ticking picked up in intensity near #1 and very loud hovering over #2 (middle cylinder, rear bank) With the probe on top of the coil pack it was making a "thud-thud" sort of sound and I started thinking bad thoughts. My immediate reaction was to swap with an other coil pack but I was skeptical - coil packs shouldn't fail making that type of sound but said what the hell - and swapped it with #5 - no difference.
So I configured an extension and spark plug socket and decided to pull the plug. (love getting behind that dam frame brace- yeah I know, most take it off but I said the heck with it, it was 10 PM last night when I did all of this)
I wasn't sure at first that the socket was seated on the plug because it was turning so easily, then realized it was - and it was spinning. I didn't measure it, but it took approximately 1-1 1/2 turns to tighten it. To say I was blown away was an understatement. But I can't argue with success - I put the coil pack back on, fired it up - no ticking, checked with the stethoscope - no more thud - noise gone! Test drove the car, hesitation gone, runs awesome.
So I called a dealer this afternoon and asked if they've seen this before - answer: yeah, we get a couple cars a year with loose plugs, usually 7+ years and older. Acura U.S. customer service says they've never had reports of this problem and no service bulletins about the issue. Sorry, but this seems a little bizarre as I've never seen this happen unless someone didn't torque the plug correctly. By the way, the car has never had any engine repairs performed and most maintenance and all warranty work was performed at an Acura dealer.
So this weekend, at a minimum, plug #2's coil pack is coming off so I can inspect the plug and I may just replace all the plugs to be on the safe side.
07-27-2014, 02:18 PM
#18
2nd Gear
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The hesitation occurred anywhere in the power range. Reminded me of a bog with a mis-adjusted carburetor. Heavy acceleration was very noticeable and nearly stranded me pulling into traffic one day.
Besides the acceleration issues, the other symptom was a noticeable ticking/thud sound from outside the car which I finally diagnosed with a stethoscope and by feel. The noise was causing combustion pressure to blow by the plug and into the plug well which I could feel by just resting my fingers on the coil pack.
Last Friday I pulled all the plugs and none of the others were loose. Replaced them all with NGK Iridium Lasers - no more hesitation or acceleration issues and plenty of power - right back to normal.
Besides the acceleration issues, the other symptom was a noticeable ticking/thud sound from outside the car which I finally diagnosed with a stethoscope and by feel. The noise was causing combustion pressure to blow by the plug and into the plug well which I could feel by just resting my fingers on the coil pack.
Last Friday I pulled all the plugs and none of the others were loose. Replaced them all with NGK Iridium Lasers - no more hesitation or acceleration issues and plenty of power - right back to normal.
07-28-2014, 02:38 PM
#19
A couple of weeks ago I noticed a ticking sound at idle which seemed to be coming from around #5 cylinder. Since I've read the reports here about that plug in particular becoming loose, I brought it to the independent shop where I get my oil changes, and asked them to check all the plugs for tightness. Turns out #5 WAS loose. I had never noticed any power loss - the ticking was the only symptom. No more ticking now 
07-28-2014, 02:46 PM
#20
Stay Out Of the Left Lane
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07-28-2014, 03:44 PM
#21
07-29-2014, 01:12 PM
#26
06 Anthracite TL
Actually, if you're just checking them for proper torque, you don't need to remove the rear strut bar- I have OCD (not really) and I was concerned I may not have completely tightened the #6 plug when I replaced mine recently- I checked it a few days ago and it was fine, but I didn't remove the bar and was able to get to the plug easily (all you need is 2 3" extensions and the plug socket, as well as a torque wrench (I recommend an inch-lb wrench as they are smaller) so checking these shouldn't take more than 20 minutes or so- something all owners should consider doing.
07-29-2014, 06:01 PM
#27
Agreed^^^
I wonder if this issue could have anything to do with the amount of time spent in VTEC? Maybe there is some kind of harmonic vibration that only happens when the J32 is in VTEC? Thoughts?
Those of you that have experienced a loose plug: Do/did you spend a lot of time in VTEC?
I wonder if this issue could have anything to do with the amount of time spent in VTEC? Maybe there is some kind of harmonic vibration that only happens when the J32 is in VTEC? Thoughts?
Those of you that have experienced a loose plug: Do/did you spend a lot of time in VTEC?
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