What Motor Oil Do You Use for your TL?
04-02-2013, 02:12 PM
#121
Race Director
^^^Just bought that one from Sears as well, but haven't used it yet. Figured for $6, it was worth a try. Good to know it works!!
04-02-2013, 02:14 PM
#122
Assuming the filtering material is good and equal across the board, could this design be because after 3 to 5K the fins will all look pretty similar? The lack of metal ends might allow for better flow?
I don't know, I don't think we can make any judgments based on that analysis unless you knew the implications what we're seeing.
I don't know, I don't think we can make any judgments based on that analysis unless you knew the implications what we're seeing.
04-02-2013, 02:40 PM
#123
The TL actually has a better oiling system than my turbo car.
The myth that only race cars or cars that are driven hard benefit from better oil and filter is incorrect. If you're going to pay that much for a filter, why would you not use the one with the best filtration and flow and superior materials inside the can and including the can. A $1.50 fram orange can user might have an argument which is cost. The guys getting the M1 filters on sale have an argument. That doesn't apply when you're comparing filters that are within a couple bucks of one another and one is clearly superior.
What it comes down to is I have a reason for each product I use. 99% of the oil and filter choices are based on feelings or meaningless data such as UOAs. I'm all for a good discussion of facts. You say you trust the brand even though it says "fully synthetic" on the bottle when its not. It's like the guys running slightly more expensive OEM filters because they trust the brand and don't realize many are made by Fram with cheap materials.
The myth that only race cars or cars that are driven hard benefit from better oil and filter is incorrect. If you're going to pay that much for a filter, why would you not use the one with the best filtration and flow and superior materials inside the can and including the can. A $1.50 fram orange can user might have an argument which is cost. The guys getting the M1 filters on sale have an argument. That doesn't apply when you're comparing filters that are within a couple bucks of one another and one is clearly superior.
What it comes down to is I have a reason for each product I use. 99% of the oil and filter choices are based on feelings or meaningless data such as UOAs. I'm all for a good discussion of facts. You say you trust the brand even though it says "fully synthetic" on the bottle when its not. It's like the guys running slightly more expensive OEM filters because they trust the brand and don't realize many are made by Fram with cheap materials.
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rockstar143 (04-02-2013)
04-02-2013, 04:00 PM
#125
Team Owner
I think it's known that any oil and filter combo changed at reasonable intervals will lead to a long life and a relatively clean engine. The rest is for the people who want better protection than most.
I can't remember his test. Do you have a link or do you remember what he was testing for? Hopefully it wasn't just the adbv. Hopefully it wasn't a test of liquid passing through the filter via gravity.
The problem with Blackstone spectral analysis is they can't "see" larger particles. This is the ultimate flaw of this kind of testing. No one has to believe me, please use google and you'll see it's a fact that people choose to ignore. It's just not useful in any way for determining a filter's filtering ability or for wear metals. What good is looking at wear metals in a test that can only see the small particles and where oxidation that's cleaned by an oil that cleans well like Mobil One and Redline shows up as dangerously high iron. Mobil One was unfairly condemned because of this. If you want to see how your engine is actually wearing or how well your filter is filtering, pay the additional money for a particle count. This is the only accurate way of determining wear and filtration other than tearing down the engine.
It's not splitting hairs when a filter has the potential to disintegrate while in use and has done so in the past. They also have a tendency to develop holes in the media, allowing unfiltered oil to pass through. It's not splitting hairs when you pull an engine apart and see what a little debris will do to rod and main journals and their bearings, along with cylinder walls and rings. When clearances get down to a few ten thousanths of an inch during operation, especially hard high rpm operation, filtration is important.
No matter who is right, the synthetic media filters offer the best of both worlds so there's no compromise or choose flow over filtration. About filtration, you can have a more restrictive filter and it will raise oil pressure. Why does it raise oil pressure, our pumps are a positive displacement pump. They will pump the same volume of oil with each engine revolution regardless of restrictions. Oil pressure is raised enough to keep flow consistent through the filter. That's assuming the filter is a restriction which is is usually not. In fact, the filter is usually invisible to the pressure guage, oil passes through it with no additional pressure on the inlet side and no pressure drop on the outlet side. When you get into the rod bearings you can easily have running clearances in the .0005" range as rod journals egg shape. That little "irrelevant" piece of debris that got past the filter is now very relevant. Flow is great but the journal bearing side clearances are going to ultimately limit flow through the bearing and being of a positive displacement design oil pump, a filter with an anti drainback valve, and cam lobes in oil baths in the heads, there is absolutely no worries about how quickly oil gets to the farthest parts of the engine during startup. It's under a second. That's why I laugh when people state warming the car up for 15 minutes to make sure oil gets everywhere it's supposed to go. If it's not there in the first second or so it's probably never going to get there. No filter on the market will ever come close to starving a TL for oil, none, not even close to starving for oil. I've seen people put guages before and after the filter, any old filter and some great filters and once hot the filter is invisible most of the time, no pressure differential. The Amsoil EAO synthetic glass media did offer a very low pressure differential when cold as well. Flow is not a problem. Even with Fram unless it decides to come apart lol.
Let's not forget, all filters have a bypass valve so you will never starve the engine for oil.
Oil is not supposed and does not flow through the cardboard endcaps. The endcaps purpose is to support the media and seal it.
One thing that's not mentioned is the traditional cellulose media is affected by moisture. The pores open up and allow more crap through in the presence of water which all engines produce.
There are the other materials that make a great filter. RP for example has the glass media that filters and flows better than just about anything out there. Along with being wire reinforced and with metal endcaps, the media is never going to develop holes or collapse or leak. Silicone antidrainback valve. Thicker outer can than most, a rubber O-ring that seals up better, a beefy bypass valve that's set a little higher than most stock filters because the media will hold up to higher pressure differentials.
And again, this better filtration is not something I made up. Search for beta ratios and you'll come to your own conclusions of what filters the best.
Particle counts and beta ratios if you care about the truth.
Does it? Do anything for stripped oil drain bolts, or just filters?
Actually, thank you. I do have that wrench, in addition, I have the honda specific sized one that can be used with a 3/8 extension. Easier considering the tight space to work in.
Anil, there you have it...1 vote no, 1 vote yes.
There are only a handful of people that have done that Blackstone Analysis before/after a certain filter to see if one or another keeps more sh*t out of the oil. Matt, Innac are probably some of them too.
Actually, thank you. I do have that wrench, in addition, I have the honda specific sized one that can be used with a 3/8 extension. Easier considering the tight space to work in.
Anil, there you have it...1 vote no, 1 vote yes.
There are only a handful of people that have done that Blackstone Analysis before/after a certain filter to see if one or another keeps more sh*t out of the oil. Matt, Innac are probably some of them too.
Chad,
Well Matt and Tim have very very very different views on oil filter....I think that was on topic where both of them can get banned LOL
Tim, likes a filter which flows very very well...according to him microscopic dirt/debris in the engine is of lower importance than starving the engine by a filter which filters well but does not flow as well....
Matt, on the other hand likes the filter to filter extremely well and flow takes a higher secondary priority....
Well Matt and Tim have very very very different views on oil filter....I think that was on topic where both of them can get banned LOL
Tim, likes a filter which flows very very well...according to him microscopic dirt/debris in the engine is of lower importance than starving the engine by a filter which filters well but does not flow as well....
Matt, on the other hand likes the filter to filter extremely well and flow takes a higher secondary priority....
Let's not forget, all filters have a bypass valve so you will never starve the engine for oil.
Assuming the filtering material is good and equal across the board, could this design be because after 3 to 5K the fins will all look pretty similar? The lack of metal ends might allow for better flow?
I don't know, I don't think we can make any judgments based on that analysis unless you knew the implications what we're seeing.
I don't know, I don't think we can make any judgments based on that analysis unless you knew the implications what we're seeing.
One thing that's not mentioned is the traditional cellulose media is affected by moisture. The pores open up and allow more crap through in the presence of water which all engines produce.
There are the other materials that make a great filter. RP for example has the glass media that filters and flows better than just about anything out there. Along with being wire reinforced and with metal endcaps, the media is never going to develop holes or collapse or leak. Silicone antidrainback valve. Thicker outer can than most, a rubber O-ring that seals up better, a beefy bypass valve that's set a little higher than most stock filters because the media will hold up to higher pressure differentials.
And again, this better filtration is not something I made up. Search for beta ratios and you'll come to your own conclusions of what filters the best.
Particle counts and beta ratios if you care about the truth.
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04-02-2013, 05:33 PM
#126
Race Director
iTrader: (1)
So in short I can't go wrong with Fram?
04-02-2013, 05:38 PM
#127
Team Owner
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rockstar143 (04-02-2013)
04-02-2013, 06:12 PM
#129
I'd love to see some independent testing with solid data backing up which filter is better and by how much. Oil can be tested and has been many times. That's why I trust Mobil-1.
For those of you who aren't convinced that most fram filters are crap just google it. There's a good reason why they can be so inexpensive.
China + cheap labor + cheap materials + poor quality controls = Fram
For those of you who aren't convinced that most fram filters are crap just google it. There's a good reason why they can be so inexpensive.
China + cheap labor + cheap materials + poor quality controls = Fram
04-02-2013, 06:37 PM
#130
Team Owner
I'd love to see some independent testing with solid data backing up which filter is better and by how much. Oil can be tested and has been many times. That's why I trust Mobil-1.
For those of you who aren't convinced that most fram filters are crap just google it. There's a good reason why they can be so inexpensive.
China + cheap labor + cheap materials + poor quality controls = Fram
For those of you who aren't convinced that most fram filters are crap just google it. There's a good reason why they can be so inexpensive.
China + cheap labor + cheap materials + poor quality controls = Fram
For filters check out their published beta ratios. Filtration is very easy to determine. Flow is a little harder but not hard and since most present zero restriction it's not that important on a stock engine.
Last edited by I hate cars; 04-02-2013 at 06:39 PM.
04-02-2013, 06:59 PM
#131
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Thanks for the response Matt....you made me consider switching up in the filter department
Jeremy, advance auto parts have a deal 35.99 OR 37.99 (one of the two) for mobil 1 EP and filter...I know walmart carries Mobil1 for ~$25 and Mobil1 EP for ~$28....but the filters are $12-ish....so the Advance Auto Parts deal is too good to miss
Now if you decide to go with Royal Purp filter, I think Amazon Prime will come to the rescue
Jeremy, advance auto parts have a deal 35.99 OR 37.99 (one of the two) for mobil 1 EP and filter...I know walmart carries Mobil1 for ~$25 and Mobil1 EP for ~$28....but the filters are $12-ish....so the Advance Auto Parts deal is too good to miss
Now if you decide to go with Royal Purp filter, I think Amazon Prime will come to the rescue
04-02-2013, 07:05 PM
#132
Hmm. don't like the results? Easy, dispute the testing methodology... I can point you to some corvette users with spun rods and thrown bearings after switching to RP. But I can see were this debate going... 
Bottom line for everyday driving any reputable brand synthetic oil is going to be sufficient. Change it regularly and stay away from those cheap bargain bin oil filters.
Bottom line for everyday driving any reputable brand synthetic oil is going to be sufficient. Change it regularly and stay away from those cheap bargain bin oil filters.
04-02-2013, 07:16 PM
#133
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Hacura (04-03-2013)
04-02-2013, 07:29 PM
#138
Just search for Royal Purple.
• Get one Royal Purple oil filter at no charge for each five-quart or one-gallon container of Royal Purple motor oil you purchase, or
• Get two Royal Purple oil filters at no charge for each twelve-quart pack of Royal Purple motor oil you purchase.
To take advantage of this special offer, simply add the Royal Purple oil filter(s) along with an eligible container of Royal Purple motor oil to your Shopping Cart. The discount will be applied during Checkout.
• Get one Royal Purple oil filter at no charge for each five-quart or one-gallon container of Royal Purple motor oil you purchase, or
• Get two Royal Purple oil filters at no charge for each twelve-quart pack of Royal Purple motor oil you purchase.
To take advantage of this special offer, simply add the Royal Purple oil filter(s) along with an eligible container of Royal Purple motor oil to your Shopping Cart. The discount will be applied during Checkout.
04-02-2013, 07:31 PM
#139
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
Check out this link
Right below tthe price and in stock or not is a box that says get up to 2 bonus oil filters, etc. click that and it gives the deal details. Or just put either 1 filter and 5 quarts or 12 quarts and 2 filters in your cart and it will update automatically. The products must be fulfilled by amazon and not a 3rd party. My shipment came in 1 day with prime shipping
Right below tthe price and in stock or not is a box that says get up to 2 bonus oil filters, etc. click that and it gives the deal details. Or just put either 1 filter and 5 quarts or 12 quarts and 2 filters in your cart and it will update automatically. The products must be fulfilled by amazon and not a 3rd party. My shipment came in 1 day with prime shipping
04-02-2013, 07:48 PM
#141
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I am very very sure this might sound very stupid but IHC have you ever mixed 2 oils? so for example have you mixed a 5w20 and 5w30 of the same brand?
04-02-2013, 08:34 PM
#142
Race Director
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04-02-2013, 10:24 PM
#144
Team Owner
What was hard for me to grasp is the HTHS value is the "working" viscosity. If you were to run a 20wt with an HTHS of 3.2 and a 30wt with a 3.0, the 20wt would give more hot oil pressure. If you're looking to tailor the viscosity to your needs, a look at the HTHS value will give a better indication of the outcome.
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swoosh (04-03-2013)
04-02-2013, 10:31 PM
#145
Team Owner
Hmm. don't like the results? Easy, dispute the testing methodology... I can point you to some corvette users with spun rods and thrown bearings after switching to RP. But I can see were this debate going...
Bottom line for everyday driving any reputable brand synthetic oil is going to be sufficient. Change it regularly and stay away from those cheap bargain bin oil filters.
Bottom line for everyday driving any reputable brand synthetic oil is going to be sufficient. Change it regularly and stay away from those cheap bargain bin oil filters.
04-03-2013, 07:21 AM
#148
BANNED
iTrader: (33)
^you won't regret giving RP a try.
fwiw, if you have a pep boys near you...they sell them there so you don't have to deal with shipping charges etc. i believe they go for around $12-$13 there.
fwiw, if you have a pep boys near you...they sell them there so you don't have to deal with shipping charges etc. i believe they go for around $12-$13 there.
04-03-2013, 10:22 AM
#149
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I'm currently running a 5w-30 and 5w-40 of the same brand with a near even mix.
What was hard for me to grasp is the HTHS value is the "working" viscosity. If you were to run a 20wt with an HTHS of 3.2 and a 30wt with a 3.0, the 20wt would give more hot oil pressure. If you're looking to tailor the viscosity to your needs, a look at the HTHS value will give a better indication of the outcome.
What was hard for me to grasp is the HTHS value is the "working" viscosity. If you were to run a 20wt with an HTHS of 3.2 and a 30wt with a 3.0, the 20wt would give more hot oil pressure. If you're looking to tailor the viscosity to your needs, a look at the HTHS value will give a better indication of the outcome.
I dont know why am shying away from Redline even though it is nice and "thick" and has a very high HTHS....
but am thinking of mixing Mobil1 EP 5w20 and 5w30 to get a "5w25" (LOL) and running with M1 EP filter...might seem the most cost effective as I can go through 2 oil changes for $80 as compared to $120-130 with Redline and RP/M1 filter....
04-03-2013, 11:29 AM
#150
Team Owner
Perfect....
I dont know why am shying away from Redline even though it is nice and "thick" and has a very high HTHS....
but am thinking of mixing Mobil1 EP 5w20 and 5w30 to get a "5w25" (LOL) and running with M1 EP filter...might seem the most cost effective as I can go through 2 oil changes for $80 as compared to $120-130 with Redline and RP/M1 filter....
I dont know why am shying away from Redline even though it is nice and "thick" and has a very high HTHS....
but am thinking of mixing Mobil1 EP 5w20 and 5w30 to get a "5w25" (LOL) and running with M1 EP filter...might seem the most cost effective as I can go through 2 oil changes for $80 as compared to $120-130 with Redline and RP/M1 filter....
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swoosh (04-03-2013)
04-03-2013, 11:37 AM
#151
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well if you get a better deal with Redline, hook me up, willing to switch if Redline was more economical
04-03-2013, 11:50 AM
#152
My sister can get Mobil 1 at the dealership she works at for $3qt, and they'd change for free. I need to see if they'd fill up a 5qt jug for $15 for her then I'd switch over to Mobil 1. Depending on the weight they have.
I love having a sister that works at a car dealership. I got a 4 wheel alignment done last year for $27, and I'm going to get 4 new tires mounted and balanced along with another alignment done for under $50.
I love having a sister that works at a car dealership. I got a 4 wheel alignment done last year for $27, and I'm going to get 4 new tires mounted and balanced along with another alignment done for under $50.
04-04-2013, 06:29 AM
#153
I use 5w20 winter time (October/November-March/April) and 5w30 summer time (March/April-October/November). I usually go to Pepbpys and look for specials on RP and what i got last yr in November was 5w20 RP 5qrts with RP oil filter for $33 after the discount. Its time to change again for the summer and Pepboys didnt have any specials in my area so i got 5w30 Mobil 1 from Autozone 5qrts with Mobil 1 oil filter for $33 after discount.
04-04-2013, 08:44 AM
#154
Okay, so did a little financial analysis.
12 quarts, 2 filters...$98 shipped. Add another $13 for another filter and no charge for the three .5 quarts I'll add of Mobil1 that are leftover from the extra .5 from every 1 gallon change I've collected.
So, to do 3 oil changes, I'm at $111 with Royal Purple.
At Walmart, I'm roughly at $33 per change with taxes for a gallon of M1 EP and 1 Fram Filter.
So, after 3 changes. $111 for royal purple - $99 for cheaper walmart stuff. $12 difference. Yeah, worth giving it a shot for me.
And get this, THAT is for the High Performance Street oil from Royal Purple. Although I would never push it that long...they claim 1 year, or 12K miles on this type of oil. NICE.
taken from RP website:
HPS™ – HIGH PERFORMANCE STREET MOTOR OIL
Royal Purple HPS Series motor oil is specifically formulated to maximize performance and meet the demands of high performance and modified engines. HPS is recommended for vehicles no longer under manufacturer warranty and for those seeking a higher level of performance and protection.
This unique blend enables HPS to outperform leading synthetics and conventional lubricants for both gasoline and diesel engines. Royal Purple’s HPS is fortified with a high level of zinc/phosphorus anti-wear additive and Royal Purple’s proprietary Synerlec® additive technology. Available viscosities include: 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30, 10W-40 and 20W-50.
12 quarts, 2 filters...$98 shipped. Add another $13 for another filter and no charge for the three .5 quarts I'll add of Mobil1 that are leftover from the extra .5 from every 1 gallon change I've collected.
So, to do 3 oil changes, I'm at $111 with Royal Purple.
At Walmart, I'm roughly at $33 per change with taxes for a gallon of M1 EP and 1 Fram Filter.
So, after 3 changes. $111 for royal purple - $99 for cheaper walmart stuff. $12 difference. Yeah, worth giving it a shot for me.
And get this, THAT is for the High Performance Street oil from Royal Purple. Although I would never push it that long...they claim 1 year, or 12K miles on this type of oil. NICE.
taken from RP website:
HPS™ – HIGH PERFORMANCE STREET MOTOR OIL
Royal Purple HPS Series motor oil is specifically formulated to maximize performance and meet the demands of high performance and modified engines. HPS is recommended for vehicles no longer under manufacturer warranty and for those seeking a higher level of performance and protection.
This unique blend enables HPS to outperform leading synthetics and conventional lubricants for both gasoline and diesel engines. Royal Purple’s HPS is fortified with a high level of zinc/phosphorus anti-wear additive and Royal Purple’s proprietary Synerlec® additive technology. Available viscosities include: 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30, 10W-40 and 20W-50.
04-04-2013, 10:25 AM
#157
04-04-2013, 10:33 AM
#159
Race Director
iTrader: (1)
Not sure if that has changed in the last couple years though.
I've been using the S2000 filters and I believe they are made by Filtech.
04-04-2013, 10:42 AM
#160
Team Owner
Okay, so did a little financial analysis.
12 quarts, 2 filters...$98 shipped. Add another $13 for another filter and no charge for the three .5 quarts I'll add of Mobil1 that are leftover from the extra .5 from every 1 gallon change I've collected.
So, to do 3 oil changes, I'm at $111 with Royal Purple.
At Walmart, I'm roughly at $33 per change with taxes for a gallon of M1 EP and 1 Fram Filter.
So, after 3 changes. $111 for royal purple - $99 for cheaper walmart stuff. $12 difference. Yeah, worth giving it a shot for me.
And get this, THAT is for the High Performance Street oil from Royal Purple. Although I would never push it that long...they claim 1 year, or 12K miles on this type of oil. NICE.
taken from RP website:
HPS™ – HIGH PERFORMANCE STREET MOTOR OIL
Royal Purple HPS Series motor oil is specifically formulated to maximize performance and meet the demands of high performance and modified engines. HPS is recommended for vehicles no longer under manufacturer warranty and for those seeking a higher level of performance and protection.
This unique blend enables HPS to outperform leading synthetics and conventional lubricants for both gasoline and diesel engines. Royal Purple’s HPS is fortified with a high level of zinc/phosphorus anti-wear additive and Royal Purple’s proprietary Synerlec® additive technology. Available viscosities include: 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30, 10W-40 and 20W-50.
12 quarts, 2 filters...$98 shipped. Add another $13 for another filter and no charge for the three .5 quarts I'll add of Mobil1 that are leftover from the extra .5 from every 1 gallon change I've collected.
So, to do 3 oil changes, I'm at $111 with Royal Purple.
At Walmart, I'm roughly at $33 per change with taxes for a gallon of M1 EP and 1 Fram Filter.
So, after 3 changes. $111 for royal purple - $99 for cheaper walmart stuff. $12 difference. Yeah, worth giving it a shot for me.
And get this, THAT is for the High Performance Street oil from Royal Purple. Although I would never push it that long...they claim 1 year, or 12K miles on this type of oil. NICE.
taken from RP website:
HPS™ – HIGH PERFORMANCE STREET MOTOR OIL
Royal Purple HPS Series motor oil is specifically formulated to maximize performance and meet the demands of high performance and modified engines. HPS is recommended for vehicles no longer under manufacturer warranty and for those seeking a higher level of performance and protection.
This unique blend enables HPS to outperform leading synthetics and conventional lubricants for both gasoline and diesel engines. Royal Purple’s HPS is fortified with a high level of zinc/phosphorus anti-wear additive and Royal Purple’s proprietary Synerlec® additive technology. Available viscosities include: 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30, 10W-40 and 20W-50.
Royal Purple oil is not an upgrade from Mobil One. In fact I would use any Mobil One oil over RP. That oil is a joke in the racing community. I used to know of at least 3 teams that were sponsored by RP that ran a different brand in the cars. They make the HTHS values hard to impossible to find because they were extremely low and people were calling them on it. In this case it would not be an economical upgrade since you will be spending more but getting less.