New Clutch - Am I An Idiot?
03-21-2013, 10:33 AM
#1
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New Clutch - Am I An Idiot?
So I went in for an oil change and the techs found a leak at the rear main crankshaft seal. Thankfully, my warranty covered this job (~$1000). Anyway, to replace that seal, the transmission needs to be dropped completely, providing easy access to the clutch and flywheel. My service advisor encouraged me to get the clutch replaced now to avoid a very expensive job in the future. He said a clutch replacement is about a 7-8 hour job and @ ~$180/hour + parts + tax, it comes near $3k!
I asked him how much this would cost me now. $1400. I fired back and got him to lower the price to $860!
This includes a new flywheel and clutch kit installed. That's about what OE parts would cost me from Delray Acura for me to put on myself, and for the same price I'm getting them installed. Not bad!
I managed to retain my old flywheel and clutch and they do not appear damaged, burned, or worn. A few days later, the clutch feels exactly the same as the old one.
Am I an idiot for getting this done? I think I got one hell of a bargain, but looking back on this, I feel like it was completely unnecessary. Just wondering what everyone's opinion of this situation is.
By the way, I love the OE clutch. It's very sporty, but easy enough that my gf can drive my car. The flywheel could be a little lighter though.
I asked him how much this would cost me now. $1400. I fired back and got him to lower the price to $860!
This includes a new flywheel and clutch kit installed. That's about what OE parts would cost me from Delray Acura for me to put on myself, and for the same price I'm getting them installed. Not bad! I managed to retain my old flywheel and clutch and they do not appear damaged, burned, or worn. A few days later, the clutch feels exactly the same as the old one.
Am I an idiot for getting this done? I think I got one hell of a bargain, but looking back on this, I feel like it was completely unnecessary. Just wondering what everyone's opinion of this situation is.By the way, I love the OE clutch. It's very sporty, but easy enough that my gf can drive my car. The flywheel could be a little lighter though.
03-21-2013, 10:39 AM
#2
Senior Moderator
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what's done is done. how many miles/old were the old parts?
03-21-2013, 11:39 AM
#4
I know our cars barely have enough transmission for the power they make, but my old 90 Accord the original clutch lasted 218k, and I would beat the hell out of that car. I would upshift and downshift without the clutch.
03-21-2013, 01:11 PM
#5
I asked him how much this would cost me now. $1400. I fired back and got him to lower the price to $860!
This includes a new flywheel and clutch kit installed. That's about what OE parts would cost me from Delray Acura for me to put on myself, and for the same price I'm getting them installed. Not bad! By the way, I love the OE clutch. It's very sporty, but easy enough that my gf can drive my car. The flywheel could be a little lighter though.
When my sister's Kia Optima needed an engine replacement she was going to co the clutch and flywheel too, but her car was an 2006 1/2 that needed a dual mass flywheel too. The cheapest they could find a new flywheel was over $600. So, she just got a new clutch disc, pressure plate.
The funny thing is she works at a car dealer. She got an engine with 58k miles on it for $750, and they charged her $250 to install it. I guess I know where I'm going when/if I need a new clutch
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03-21-2013, 01:53 PM
#8
With a clutch change using replacement OEM parts you're not going to see or feel any difference as the disc removed wasn't slipping indicating that the PP springs were weakened or the disc material wasn't down to the rivets.
It will be a great selling point in the future or a good investment if the car will be kept for some time.
It will be a great selling point in the future or a good investment if the car will be kept for some time.
03-21-2013, 09:05 PM
#12
the overexplainer
not a bad deal for under $1k.
I personally wouldnt have done it as people have gotten over 200k with the original clutch. Either way it doesnt hurt. Baby that and you can get more life out of that clutch than your car
I personally wouldnt have done it as people have gotten over 200k with the original clutch. Either way it doesnt hurt. Baby that and you can get more life out of that clutch than your car
03-21-2013, 09:56 PM
#13
Suzuka Master
depend on how long you will keep the car, if you planning trading it in for the new gen TL then it total waste of money. If you keep the car for the long run then it worth it.
03-22-2013, 05:46 AM
#14
Registered Member
If you know what you're doing, how to properly operate a manual transmission (see crbnfbr's post #4), then you were only about 1/4 of the way into your clutch's life at 68,000 miles... maybe less than that.
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03-22-2013, 09:10 AM
#17
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I sold my first accord @ 201K miles - original clutch. Sold my second accord @ 185K miles - original clutch. A clutch can last the life of a vehicle if you know how to use it correctly. Either way, what's done is done. You got a good deal but you probably could have gotten another 200K out of it.
If I were in the same situation and the car was used when I bought it (which mine was), then I probably would have done the same since I wouldn't have known the real condition of the clutch due to it being self adjusting. The previous owner could have beat on it for all I know. But if the car was purchased new, there's no way I'd think about replacing it at that mileage since I know how I drive.
If I were in the same situation and the car was used when I bought it (which mine was), then I probably would have done the same since I wouldn't have known the real condition of the clutch due to it being self adjusting. The previous owner could have beat on it for all I know. But if the car was purchased new, there's no way I'd think about replacing it at that mileage since I know how I drive.
03-22-2013, 09:18 AM
#18
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Its hard to say how long a clutch is going to last. If your not the original owner then your guess is as good as anyones. I had a 07 Type S 6mt that I bought from the original owner with 62,000 miles. The clutch was shot by 66,000 miles. So obviously I had to get it fixed, however your deal doesnt seem to be all that great. I dont remember spending anything more than like $1,100 bucks for the job and that was ONLY to do the clutch so they werent already in there for another job. They did not have to replace the flywheel. After the job the clutch felt real nice. I didnt keep the car anyway though because I think the 6mt in these TL's is the most annoying transmission ever made!! Give me the 6spd back from my Z06 anydayyyyy.
Like nismopowerdog said above, im trying to think where they came up with $1,000+ of work to be done. Even after you got them down to 8 somethin. I think the clutch disc is pretty cheap, and if they didnt replace the expensive flywheel, it sounds like they still raped you with labor costs, when there shouldnt have really been any extra labor as far as I would know. So why did the clutch job not more or less just cost whatever the parts of the clutch disc were?
Like nismopowerdog said above, im trying to think where they came up with $1,000+ of work to be done. Even after you got them down to 8 somethin. I think the clutch disc is pretty cheap, and if they didnt replace the expensive flywheel, it sounds like they still raped you with labor costs, when there shouldnt have really been any extra labor as far as I would know. So why did the clutch job not more or less just cost whatever the parts of the clutch disc were?
03-22-2013, 09:40 AM
#20
My first ricer
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How much does a gently used clutch go for on the BM? Flip it for a few bones and be happy with the peace of mind you have fresh parts and didn't pay typical stealership prices for it.
03-22-2013, 11:07 AM
#21
Registered Bike Offender
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I love my TL and plan on keeping it forever! Unless a baby walks out of my girlfriend's vagina or something, then things might need to change a little bit.
In the initial quote, I believe he was charging me 1.5 hours of labor. After my negotiation, I think he cut off all the labor and discounted the parts from list price.
A little more history. I picked up the car with 35k miles on it. So about half of them are mine. Another piece of trivia is that this is the first car I've owned with a standard transmission. There was a little bit of a learning curve at first, so naturally some additional wearing down took place.
Yeah I'll take some and post them here!
Luckily, I learned a lot about how to properly drive a manual on the FIRST clutch.
Now I know all of the techniques you mentioned and, not to sound arrogant or anything, I think I've gotten pretty damn good at them. I started double clutching when I found out about the known 3rd gear synchro issue in the TL's MT. I don't do the 2nd gear before 1st thing though.
Dude that's brilliant. I'm so glad I asked the stealership to fork it over. And yes, piece of mind is absolutely achieved. 1) No idea how the previous owner treated the clutch. 2) I definitely wore it down practicing and learning new techniques.
In the initial quote, I believe he was charging me 1.5 hours of labor. After my negotiation, I think he cut off all the labor and discounted the parts from list price.
A little more history. I picked up the car with 35k miles on it. So about half of them are mine. Another piece of trivia is that this is the first car I've owned with a standard transmission. There was a little bit of a learning curve at first, so naturally some additional wearing down took place.
Yeah, 68k miles seems quite low for a new clutch. I have 106k on mine, but I baby it. I double clutch and match revs on down shifts, leave it in neutral at stop lights to make sure the through out bearing doesn't over heat, and I always put in second before first(it's an old habit from my eclipse days where it'd grind going straight to first.
Now I know all of the techniques you mentioned and, not to sound arrogant or anything, I think I've gotten pretty damn good at them. I started double clutching when I found out about the known 3rd gear synchro issue in the TL's MT. I don't do the 2nd gear before 1st thing though.Dude that's brilliant. I'm so glad I asked the stealership to fork it over. And yes, piece of mind is absolutely achieved. 1) No idea how the previous owner treated the clutch. 2) I definitely wore it down practicing and learning new techniques.
03-22-2013, 11:15 AM
#22
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Its hard to say how long a clutch is going to last. If your not the original owner then your guess is as good as anyones. I had a 07 Type S 6mt that I bought from the original owner with 62,000 miles. The clutch was shot by 66,000 miles. So obviously I had to get it fixed, however your deal doesnt seem to be all that great. I dont remember spending anything more than like $1,100 bucks for the job and that was ONLY to do the clutch so they werent already in there for another job. They did not have to replace the flywheel. After the job the clutch felt real nice. I didnt keep the car anyway though because I think the 6mt in these TL's is the most annoying transmission ever made!! Give me the 6spd back from my Z06 anydayyyyy.
Like nismopowerdog said above, im trying to think where they came up with $1,000+ of work to be done. Even after you got them down to 8 somethin. I think the clutch disc is pretty cheap, and if they didnt replace the expensive flywheel, it sounds like they still raped you with labor costs, when there shouldnt have really been any extra labor as far as I would know. So why did the clutch job not more or less just cost whatever the parts of the clutch disc were?
Like nismopowerdog said above, im trying to think where they came up with $1,000+ of work to be done. Even after you got them down to 8 somethin. I think the clutch disc is pretty cheap, and if they didnt replace the expensive flywheel, it sounds like they still raped you with labor costs, when there shouldnt have really been any extra labor as far as I would know. So why did the clutch job not more or less just cost whatever the parts of the clutch disc were?
Could have used the 600 bucks for a Type S Lip!
03-22-2013, 11:34 AM
#24
Registered Member
I sold my first accord @ 201K miles - original clutch. Sold my second accord @ 185K miles - original clutch. A clutch can last the life of a vehicle if you know how to use it correctly. Either way, what's done is done. You got a good deal but you probably could have gotten another 200K out of it.
If I were in the same situation and the car was used when I bought it (which mine was), then I probably would have done the same since I wouldn't have known the real condition of the clutch due to it being self adjusting. The previous owner could have beat on it for all I know. But if the car was purchased new, there's no way I'd think about replacing it at that mileage since I know how I drive.
If I were in the same situation and the car was used when I bought it (which mine was), then I probably would have done the same since I wouldn't have known the real condition of the clutch due to it being self adjusting. The previous owner could have beat on it for all I know. But if the car was purchased new, there's no way I'd think about replacing it at that mileage since I know how I drive.
03-22-2013, 11:59 AM
#25
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The flywheel was replaced too (there are some marks on it, I'll post pics soon) and that's $826 list, $611 from OEMAcuraParts. A clutch kit is $326 list, $241 from OEMAcuraParts. In hindsight, how bad does a flywheel need to be for it to be replaced? Probably pretty bad! Oh well, with these prices plus shipping, I basically got them installed for free. Damn, should have only gotten the clutch kit. Could have used the 600 bucks for a Type S Lip!
Could have used the 600 bucks for a Type S Lip!
03-22-2013, 12:01 PM
#26
Safety Car
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That's what I'm always saying. I mean its an excellent transmission, but just a pain in the ass to get right. When I sold one of my 6mt type S's a guy that test drove it and who eventually bought it ended up killing it 3 times before he was able to get out of my driveway lol
03-22-2013, 02:10 PM
#29
first and best mod I ever did with my 6mt. Before I bought it I drove like 10 different tl mt and felt the engagement on the clutch was extremely different from any other manual car. It already has a very thin rubber stop, just add a bit to the rubber stop and the driving experience is 10x better.
03-22-2013, 02:39 PM
#30
first and best mod I ever did with my 6mt. Before I bought it I drove like 10 different tl mt and felt the engagement on the clutch was extremely different from any other manual car. It already has a very thin rubber stop, just add a bit to the rubber stop and the driving experience is 10x better.
03-22-2013, 05:31 PM
#32
Registered Member
Your clutch should be fully engaged when released, otherwise it is slipping.
03-22-2013, 05:35 PM
#33
Registered Member
It wasn't the first mod I did, but still one of the best. My clutch still has a high disengagement point. That's why I was playing around with the threaded rod trying to lower disengagement point, but I went too far and and it didn't fully disengage that's why it was slipping. I did have to adjust the clutch intercept switch to be able to get it to start.
03-22-2013, 06:10 PM
#34
some like it stock
this is my first manual transmission car as well - but the clutch seems fine at 85k. i got it at 14k so i'm assuming the original owner didn't kill it doing burnouts 
i do leave the car in neutral at lights, and i rev-match or double-clutch for downshifts. not sure about going to 2nd first at a stop - i assume that's with the clutch in, versus starting forward in 2nd and then shifting to first?
i've noticed the engagement point is pretty high up, depending on the gear change (i.e., 3-4) i barely have to depress it. is that normal?
i do leave the car in neutral at lights, and i rev-match or double-clutch for downshifts. not sure about going to 2nd first at a stop - i assume that's with the clutch in, versus starting forward in 2nd and then shifting to first?
i've noticed the engagement point is pretty high up, depending on the gear change (i.e., 3-4) i barely have to depress it. is that normal?
03-22-2013, 08:16 PM
#35
Registered Member
this is my first manual transmission car as well - but the clutch seems fine at 85k. i got it at 14k so i'm assuming the original owner didn't kill it doing burnouts
i do leave the car in neutral at lights, and i rev-match or double-clutch for downshifts. not sure about going to 2nd first at a stop - i assume that's with the clutch in, versus starting forward in 2nd and then shifting to first?
i've noticed the engagement point is pretty high up, depending on the gear change (i.e., 3-4) i barely have to depress it. is that normal?
i do leave the car in neutral at lights, and i rev-match or double-clutch for downshifts. not sure about going to 2nd first at a stop - i assume that's with the clutch in, versus starting forward in 2nd and then shifting to first?
i've noticed the engagement point is pretty high up, depending on the gear change (i.e., 3-4) i barely have to depress it. is that normal?
"i've noticed the engagement point is pretty high up, depending on the gear change (i.e., 3-4) i barely have to depress it. is that normal?"
No, this is not normal. The initial engagement point is around 2" (or less) from the clutch pedal stop pad. If initial engagement is occurring too high, this is not good at all. Get this fixed or fix it yourself.
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jack the ex-cynic (03-25-2013)
03-22-2013, 08:24 PM
#36
Be careful with this. When set to spec, the initial engagement point is pretty low, as in early in the pedal travel, around 2" from the stop pad. If the initial engagement point is too high, then it will have zero free play and will not become fully engaged when released. If you need the specs, I can get them out of my 2004 Service Manual. I would bet they are the same for your TL.
Last edited by crbnfbr; 03-22-2013 at 08:37 PM.
03-23-2013, 09:39 AM
#37
remember guys the mechanic always will find something extra to change in your car, sure more money for him!! so don't always do that the mechanic told you. I remember I took my car to a shop for alignment and get my tires checked and i received a call from the shop and told me that I had to change the brake pads and I told him how in the world my car need new brake pads when i got them replaced by myself 2 weeks ago??!!! the guy just told me I'm telling you what the mechanics told me so be careful guys.
68K miles to low miles to get it replaced like already the guys told you but if you have the money why not !!??
68K miles to low miles to get it replaced like already the guys told you but if you have the money why not !!??
03-25-2013, 08:13 PM
#39
some like it stock
The reason you go into second or third before going into first when sitting at a light and getting ready to move is to stop the input shaft from spinning in preparation of the shift into first. The higher gears offer less resistance to this than does first gear.
"i've noticed the engagement point is pretty high up, depending on the gear change (i.e., 3-4) i barely have to depress it. is that normal?"
No, this is not normal. The initial engagement point is around 2" (or less) from the clutch pedal stop pad. If initial engagement is occurring too high, this is not good at all. Get this fixed or fix it yourself.
"i've noticed the engagement point is pretty high up, depending on the gear change (i.e., 3-4) i barely have to depress it. is that normal?"
No, this is not normal. The initial engagement point is around 2" (or less) from the clutch pedal stop pad. If initial engagement is occurring too high, this is not good at all. Get this fixed or fix it yourself.
03-25-2013, 09:35 PM
#40
thanks! i'll definitely look into that. i noticed a few thousand miles back that the clutch would make kind of a creaking sound when i depressed it. now it doesn't do that any more (and didn't do it before). so maybe a spring? i've always depressed it fully in the past, it's only recently that i started playing with how far it had to go.
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jack the ex-cynic (03-26-2013)