Pro Stock John

Hi guys,

I have 2500 miles on our 6MT TL and I have driven in snow five times now and feel qualified to give out some general comments.

I have the basic tires on the car.

Let me first say that I drive like two people, I drive fast and crazy when it's nice out and I drive slow when it's snowing or raining.

I've been caught in white-out conditions on I90/I94 by Michigan City/Chesterton IN and let me tell you, the car is pretty average in the snow.

Now I don't fault the car at all.

The tires on the other hand... well they grip as well as any wide 17" tire'd car I have ever owned... marginally. Once the treads ice or fill up, the car tends to feel sloppy in the front end. I've gone as fast as 115 in nice weather, and as slow as 20mph in a full snow storm.

The car stops great, the ABS is pretty decent.

But once there is snow accumulation, the car feels sloppy at like 50-60mph. If you have ever had to switch lanes in 4-5 inches of snow at 50mph, you will agree with me that it's a maneuvre that requires your full concentration.

I drove in as much as 6 inches of standing snow and cut thru, but I was in 5th gear at 30mph LOL.

The snow was so bad on the highway on the way out to Grand Haven that they shut the highway down. We used our Navi and took side streets from Exit 26 to Michigan City, and then took 12 to 94.

If I lived out there I would probably run snow tires if I did a lot of highway driving.

Living in Chicago, and driving 6 miles a day, I am fine with the stock tire.

Car is great overall, just be careful with those 17" tires.

soljc

I concur with most of your comments, and although I have dedicated snows, I think the problems I've experienced are more related to the tremendous HP than the wide tires, although a narrower tire would surely provide better traction.

Pro Stock John

I have owned about 40 cars, and the best two cars in the snow were:

1995 Lumina 4dr 3.1
1981 Volvo 240 DL (5 spd, rwd)

The Volvo had super skinny tires, like 15x185's or something. It was the best snow car ever.

Worst:
1998 Camaro SS, 6MT, 245-17's stock
1992 Mustang GT, 5MT
1989 Mustang LX notch, 5MT


I will give my TL the following ratings for snow driving:
ABS Braking: A
Lights: A
Starting from a stop in 1st: C
Starting from a stop in 2nd: B
Stability <50mph in heavy snow: A
Stability >50mph in heavy snow: C

My guess is that the TL on some narrow 16's would handle pretty well in the snow, so I am just going to deal with life on 17's.

nfnsquared

50-60 mph in 4-5 inches of snow? Give me a break, that's not safe in any car!

Pro Stock John

I don't mean 4-5 inches of virgin snow. I mean packed rutted snow. When it was super crappy out I did most of my driving at 40mph. My f'law has a 97 A4 Quattro and he was going 50mph in the same snow.

cM3go

I upgraded my tires to Pirelli PZero Nero M+S before our first snow fall, these tires are tons better than the stock Turanzas

Pro Stock John

If you want to sell your stock tires let me know, I might get some 17" aftermarket rims.

Maybe we can meet up and see who's car is a more of a mess going down Western Avenue at 50mph LOL.

miiipilot

Guys!

Seriously, I don't understand why people insist on blaming a car or certain tires for poor performance in certain weather conditions.

Like a previous post regarding more SUVs in ditches/fields than other vehicles. EVEN with 4x4/AWD etc etc during certain conditions you are gonna have to SLOW DOWN.

Or the guy who couldn't drive @80 mph during a rainstorm cause his car would hydroplane. "What shitty tires." <----paraphrased of course

Gimme a break. Be smarter than this!

I will defend these tires. My M3 & G35 cpe both had Pilot Sports. While no comparision on dry pavement....SNOW LOL I still made it through winter (Cleveland winter) without EVER ending up in a ditch unlike some assholes in SUVs thinking they could go 65 on the highway still.

These OEM tires are fine here. U just have to take it a little slower, pay more attention to the road and not your Big Mac. Slowly merge through the slushy stuff between lanes. And leave A LOT more room to brake SLOWLY. Learn the physics of driving in snow. Pay attention to what your car is telling you. And for your own sake, no sudden jerks of the wheel or panic stopping.

I'm sorry, but it may not be the tires, it might be the idiot behind the wheel. Unless you have studs in your tires you are gonna have to slow down and take your time.

miiipilot

04AcuraTL

y would u do 50mph in 4 inch of snow..i do 20 in a light glaze on the road, n im talkin highway, but thats just my 2 cents

Pro Stock John

A few inches of rutted snow on the highway. This is where trucks are going 60 and everyone else is going 50. For me to get up to 50 is to keep up with traffic. Off the highway, which was usually worse, I was going 30-40mph.

showart

Pro Stock John,

Don't you just love the Indiana Department of Transportation! I am from Chicago and just moved to South Bend for work, but I come to the SouthSide every other weekend. It is like day and night comparing our roads (both highway and suburb). Chicago is so much better. I know exactly what you mean by the 4"-5" snow ruts... everyone zooms pass you and wonder why there is a semi in the ditch every three miles.

missmyprelude

I could not disagree more!!! Tires are everything, and they absolutely will affect the performance of your car in all conditions. I do agree that you have to slow down in the snow and take the other precautions you mention (I don't think anyone will disagree). I can't explain why you think studs will allow you not to slow down in snow!? In any case, with the proper winter tires, a car will most certainly go, stop, and turn much better.

I can say this with certainty because when I have a choice to drive my FWD TL with the EL42s or my wife's RWD Lexus with a good set of Blizzaks on it in a snow storm, I will choose her car 100% of the time. It performs *significantly* better in the snow than the TL due almost entirely to the tires.

On the other hand, put the stock "summer" tires on the Lexus, and you might as well drive right into a ditch in the snow. We also have a set of all-seasons that I drove in a light snow a few times, and they didn't do much better (and they are generally considered very good in snow for all-seasons).

The TL is not the worst car I've driven in the snow (with stock all-season tires), but it certainly is no winner. In any case, I can say with considerable certainty that the tires are a significant reason for this.

brahtw8

The TL is just fine in the snow. It is not an issue of the car, although too much throttle will cause wheel slippage in any weather condition.

Tires are very important. If you live in an area with real seasons, you owe it to yourself to get real tires. All seasons are a compromise that some people are not willing to make, myself included.

With Blizzaks, the TL is very capable in the snow. Changing lanes over ruts is not a problem, nor are snowstorms of 8-12 inches.

Part of it is driver technique and understanding the dynamics of car control and weight transfer through application of the throttle and braking. Driving on a race track at high speed and thus low traction is fundamentally the same as driving in the snow. The same principles and techniques apply.

avs007

I've driven 35 to 40 in 4-5 inches of snow no problem. You just need to leave lots of distance between the cars around you. That is the important part, not how fast/slow you are going. I've seen people drive 15 mph hit each other, because they were tailgating each other on the snow.

Not to be an a-hole or anything, but unless the street has a layer of ice on it, driving 20 on the freeway is usually unnecessary. This is what makes my commute home from work take 4.5 hours when it snows. People driving 5mph through the section of freeway that has a dusting of snow on it. But that's ok, I'm not griping, I like driving, so whatever... I get more irritated at the people that don't turn on their lights in heavy rain/fog, or at night.

My gripe, is people that put on a full set of studded tires for the entire winter season, when it only snows maybe a week out of the year in the area. I've seen people drive on studded tires in March, when it's 60 degrees out.

Motoracer

I live near Boston and my house has a very steep driveway. My previous car (Lexus GS300) with the OEM all weather tires was absolutely terrible in snow. Even a light glaze and it couldn't make it up the driveway. It had pretty good skid control, but I had to careful about stopping on any kind of incline when it was snowing. This despite traction control.

I've been pleasantly surprised by the TL this winter. I can't make a direct comparo since I put Vredestein WinTracs on it, but it has had no problems whatsoever with the mucky snow and frozen rain conditions we've had here lately. The traction control on-off cycles are more abrupt and seem less refined than the Lexus, but it worked much better than the Lexus getting me up the driveway even before I changed to winter tires.

kosh2258

My experience with my 6MT, so far, is that the EL42's are marginal at best for winter driving and I'll have something else on the car before next winter.

At this point, unless something better hits the market between now and then, those new tires will probably be Pirelli PZero Neros based on survey ratings at TireRack.com. And the Nero's price per tire is far more reasonable than the Pilot Sport A/S.

Like many here, I'm not impressed with the EL42 tire. They're just not a very good tire and Acura made a big error putting them on the TL. I suppose I could complain to the dealer and hope they'd authorize replacement of them. But I haven't had any problems with them as such so I'm don't know how I'd make the complaint.

mickey3c

The first year on my stock tires were marginal. After that I needed to get snows. I got blizzaks on 16 inch rims from tirerack. But be warned, when you are sailing down the highway at 75 (dry pavement) and have to make a routine lane change with some braking action, you could experience different handling characteristics.

They are not 149+ tires and while they go in snow very well they are not a performance tire.

If you are going to own a car like this in the snowy areas be prepared to have two sets of tires.

1995hoo

You're forgetting one very important thing. You live in northwestern Louisiana where people don't deal with driving in snow all that much compared to folks in Michigan. I lived in North Carolina for three years, including during the so-called Blizzard of 1996, and the way people from the South deal with driving in snow baffles me--they all slow to an absolute crawl, then they get pissed that they can't make it up the next hill, not realizing that they were going too slowly to have any momentum.

Champcar1

One other thing. I live in the southeast Denver metro and we have had several snows lately of around 3-4 inches. This car is just fine in the snow. The tires are ok. Not great, but ok. Someone touched on the issue of the tire width and I totally agree that in general the wider the tire the more it rides up on top of the snow rather than getting down in it. One thing about the throttle on this car that could also be causing some people to think it's bad in the snow is the throttle tip-in is very quick and the throttle response is also very quick. It takes a very light touch on the throttle. I have to be extremely light on the throttle, especially from a standing start, or the tires will spin very easily. I agree that good snow tires or even better all-season tires would probably improve it. But I really don't have any major problems getting this thing going in snow. And taking off in second gear will help in some situations as well.
So to make a long rambling post even longer, the car is not bad, the tires are not bad(not great) but most definitely not terrible. It just takes some getting used to.

brahtw8

You can improve your dry grip during winter with an H or V rated high performance snow tire. I run the Blizzak LM22, which is a $176 tire in 225/50/17 that has acceptable dry handling and snow capability. There is a small trade-off between dry handling and snow capability, but with FWD it is not an issue. Other good HP snow tires include the Dunlop M3, Michelin Pilot Alpin and Pirelli 210.

With a RWD car, I would go for more snow capability versus dry and get the Blizzak WS-50 or some Hakka Qs.

fasttl

The stock tires are useless in the snow. I have Blizzak LM22's on their own rims. I'm thoroughly pleased with the performance. They excellent in snow and on dry they are better than the turanzas. Finally my turanzas wore out (after a total of10K!)! Can't wait till spring to mount some Michelin PS2's!!! If you get stuck on an incline simply turn the VSA off and go. A little wheel spin will get you over those snowy hills where the traction control will bog the car down, just shift it in to second and be gentle with the throttle!
Do not buy blizzak W50, the handling characteristics are terrible. Other manufacturers also sell decent speed rated snow tires, check tirerack.com or consumerreports.org they have reviews of winter tires.

brahtw8

I wouldn't put WS-50s or other aggressive snow tires on a FWD car, but if I had a high-powered RWD car I would look into them. You need the extra traction if you are going to make it through the winter with a powerful RWD and you just have to accept that dry handling is going to be somewhat compromised.

missmyprelude

For anyone that thinks that the TL with stock EL42s is good in the snow, you should try a car with good winter tires. There is really an incredible difference. Of course, if you don't get much snow, then why bother. I put winter tires on my wife's Lexus out of necessity mostly, but after doing so and realizing the incredible safety benefits of it, I will be buying winter tires for all my vehicles from now on. The only reason I still drive with the EL42s on the TL is that I will probably be selling the TL for a people mover when my third kid shows up later this year. Otherwise, I would have put winter tires on the car after the first time I drove in the snow last season and found out how bad it was.

We have the Blizzak WS-50s on the Lexus and I will agree that the handling characteristics in the dry are less than desirable (in particular, there's too much tread squirm). They aren't "high performance" tires, but lean heavily toward snow/ice traction. And they do that extremely well. That being said, the handling is still good - you just can't pretend to be in a race car.

I've driven on other winter tires (e.g. Pirelli Snowsports) that lean more toward all around performance than max snow/ice traction, and found them to be better than all-seasons in the snow, and as good as many all-seasons in the dry/wet. However, they still couldn't touch the Blizzaks when the weather got really ugly.

pettydw

I installed Dunlop M3's for the winter and have not been disappointed in snow, heavy rain, and dry conditions. Tire choice is everything.

geminis2

Tires and also Driving skills are everything...