Hard Water Stains
04-03-2012, 10:43 PM
#1
Hard Water Stains
Hey guys so my dad came back from work from New Mexico and his car has not seen the fresh water here in Michigan and has stains allover it. I put it through a wash with Meguaires and its still there. It shines ok but looking at it from eye level its clearly there and water sticks to it and it just looks terrible up close. Any tips?
Its his 07 MDX if that matters
Its his 07 MDX if that matters
04-04-2012, 02:40 PM
#3
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what do you mean stains? like acid rain spots, hard water spots? "fresh" water will not cause clearcoat damage like that.
if its stuck in the clear then just washing and waxing will not get it out, you are going to need to get your hands on some sort of buffing compound and a orbital buffer or something similar and a wool/microfiber pad. then after you buffed the areas with the spots and have removed the compound with with a microfiber towel, you are going to need to go back over it with polish and a polishing pad to smooth any swirls and add a layer of protection to the newly exposed clear. adding another coat of wax after that wouldn't hurt either.
every time you buff a panel you are removing a layer of clear from the paint and if you dont add protection to that in the way of some sort of wax or polish its just going to happen again.
also keep in mind that after you have buffed a panel or three you should removed the compound with the microfiber, if you wait to remove it after you've buffed the entire car you will be there all night. also make you do this in a garage or the shade, the heat from the sun will fuck you up.
and if you have the same problem on the windows you can use the buffer and compound on the windows as well.
good luck
if its stuck in the clear then just washing and waxing will not get it out, you are going to need to get your hands on some sort of buffing compound and a orbital buffer or something similar and a wool/microfiber pad. then after you buffed the areas with the spots and have removed the compound with with a microfiber towel, you are going to need to go back over it with polish and a polishing pad to smooth any swirls and add a layer of protection to the newly exposed clear. adding another coat of wax after that wouldn't hurt either.
every time you buff a panel you are removing a layer of clear from the paint and if you dont add protection to that in the way of some sort of wax or polish its just going to happen again.
also keep in mind that after you have buffed a panel or three you should removed the compound with the microfiber, if you wait to remove it after you've buffed the entire car you will be there all night. also make you do this in a garage or the shade, the heat from the sun will fuck you up.
and if you have the same problem on the windows you can use the buffer and compound on the windows as well.
good luck
04-05-2012, 09:27 AM
#7
Suzuka Master
you are going to need to get your hands on some sort of buffing compound and a orbital buffer or something similar and a wool/microfiber pad. then after you buffed the areas with the spots and have removed the compound with with a microfiber towel, you are going to need to go back over it with polish and a polishing pad to smooth any swirls and add a layer of protection to the newly exposed clear. adding another coat of wax after that wouldn't hurt either.
every time you buff a panel you are removing a layer of clear from the paint and if you dont add protection to that in the way of some sort of wax or polish its just going to happen again.
also keep in mind that after you have buffed a panel or three you should removed the compound with the microfiber, if you wait to remove it after you've buffed the entire car you will be there all night. also make you do this in a garage or the shade, the heat from the sun will fuck you up.
and if you have the same problem on the windows you can use the buffer and compound on the windows as well.
good luck
every time you buff a panel you are removing a layer of clear from the paint and if you dont add protection to that in the way of some sort of wax or polish its just going to happen again.
also keep in mind that after you have buffed a panel or three you should removed the compound with the microfiber, if you wait to remove it after you've buffed the entire car you will be there all night. also make you do this in a garage or the shade, the heat from the sun will fuck you up.
and if you have the same problem on the windows you can use the buffer and compound on the windows as well.
good luck
Your not removing a "layer" of clear .. your removing "some" clear .. its not in layers.
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04-05-2012, 05:05 PM
#8
Keep'n it clean- Orlando
As we both state, start really light, get a good cleaner wax, some even come without abrasives if you have no swirls.. just remember you can always do more work take off more clear, but you cant put it back on. Kinda like a haircut ha.!
04-08-2012, 04:35 PM
#9
Thanks for all the help guys. After that last few washes it is fading a bit.
Waht I realized it was, was a Calcium buildup. Like on faucets the mineral buildup, and then you use CLR to get rid of it. I wonder if I could use some CLR ditilled in the water that I used to clean the car
I think it just takes time through many washes. I would try buffing using an random orbital, but im afraid the mineral would cause swirl marks on the new car.
Waht I realized it was, was a Calcium buildup. Like on faucets the mineral buildup, and then you use CLR to get rid of it. I wonder if I could use some CLR ditilled in the water that I used to clean the car
I think it just takes time through many washes. I would try buffing using an random orbital, but im afraid the mineral would cause swirl marks on the new car.
04-08-2012, 04:40 PM
#10
Suzuka Master
Thanks for all the help guys. After that last few washes it is fading a bit.
Waht I realized it was, was a Calcium buildup. Like on faucets the mineral buildup, and then you use CLR to get rid of it. I wonder if I could use some CLR ditilled in the water that I used to clean the car
I think it just takes time through many washes. I would try buffing using an random orbital, but im afraid the mineral would cause swirl marks on the new car.
Waht I realized it was, was a Calcium buildup. Like on faucets the mineral buildup, and then you use CLR to get rid of it. I wonder if I could use some CLR ditilled in the water that I used to clean the car
I think it just takes time through many washes. I would try buffing using an random orbital, but im afraid the mineral would cause swirl marks on the new car.
I'd clay it first then use a R/O to polish it out .. if you have a PC and the proper pads / polishes your not going to swirl it.
04-12-2012, 10:42 PM
#11
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first of all i've never heard of starting off with a "least aggressive" compound, wash the car to get the dirt off, clay the car to to smooth out the outer LAYER of the clear, use whatever pad or compound you want at first with whatever buffer you want, just keep in mind if you use a "aggressive" compound(trugrit) with a "aggressive" pad(wool) on a "aggressive" speed(3k rpm), you are probaby going to swirl the clear but at least the water spots will be removed. but this can always be corrected with "least aggressive" of everything above(meguire's correction compound, foam, 1k rpm). regardless of what people tell you, when you are correcting a paint/clear issue on a car its always going to look worse before it looks better, thats why most of the paint correction systems you can buy come in multiple stages.
clearcoat is put on by "layers", not some at a time
pretty colors and boldness make you cool
04-12-2012, 10:56 PM
#12
Suzuka Master
obviously you dont know me so i wont hold this against you and please dont let my 3 or 4 posts in this entire forum fool you into think i know nothing about detailing cars, i've detailed for rolls royce and im now in my fifth year with mercedes so i think i know what im talking about
first of all i've never heard of starting off with a "least aggressive" compound, wash the car to get the dirt off, clay the car to to smooth out the outer LAYER of the clear, use whatever pad or compound you want at first with whatever buffer you want, just keep in mind if you use a "aggressive" compound(trugrit) with a "aggressive" pad(wool) on a "aggressive" speed(3k rpm), you are probaby going to swirl the clear but at least the water spots will be removed. but this can always be corrected with "least aggressive" of everything above(meguire's correction compound, foam, 1k rpm). regardless of what people tell you, when you are correcting a paint/clear issue on a car its always going to look worse before it looks better, thats why most of the paint correction systems you can buy come in multiple stages.
clearcoat is put on by "layers", not some at a time
pretty colors and boldness make you cool
first of all i've never heard of starting off with a "least aggressive" compound, wash the car to get the dirt off, clay the car to to smooth out the outer LAYER of the clear, use whatever pad or compound you want at first with whatever buffer you want, just keep in mind if you use a "aggressive" compound(trugrit) with a "aggressive" pad(wool) on a "aggressive" speed(3k rpm), you are probaby going to swirl the clear but at least the water spots will be removed. but this can always be corrected with "least aggressive" of everything above(meguire's correction compound, foam, 1k rpm). regardless of what people tell you, when you are correcting a paint/clear issue on a car its always going to look worse before it looks better, thats why most of the paint correction systems you can buy come in multiple stages.
clearcoat is put on by "layers", not some at a time
pretty colors and boldness make you cool
Clay doesn't smooth the outer layer of clear it removes the contaminants tht are bonded to the clear.
Regardless of what people tell you .. in a lot of cases its not necessary to make it look worse that it already is by going too aggressive right off the top.
Clear "may" be put on in layers in some cases but polishing doesn't take off a layer at a time.
BTW if you want to name drop .. my son-in-laws CLS 500, SL500 and his Ferarri 355 Spider were all detailed by the dealers detailers.. Took me a few hours each to correct what they did. Not a great bragging platform.
Last edited by Jesstzn; 04-12-2012 at 11:05 PM.
04-12-2012, 11:34 PM
#13
obviously you dont know me so i wont hold this against you and please dont let my 3 or 4 posts in this entire forum fool you into think i know nothing about detailing cars, i've detailed for rolls royce and im now in my fifth year with mercedes so i think i know what im talking about
first of all i've never heard of starting off with a "least aggressive" compound, wash the car to get the dirt off, clay the car to to smooth out the outer LAYER of the clear, use whatever pad or compound you want at first with whatever buffer you want, just keep in mind if you use a "aggressive" compound(trugrit) with a "aggressive" pad(wool) on a "aggressive" speed(3k rpm), you are probaby going to swirl the clear but at least the water spots will be removed. but this can always be corrected with "least aggressive" of everything above(meguire's correction compound, foam, 1k rpm). regardless of what people tell you, when you are correcting a paint/clear issue on a car its always going to look worse before it looks better, thats why most of the paint correction systems you can buy come in multiple stages.
clearcoat is put on by "layers", not some at a time
pretty colors and boldness make you cool
first of all i've never heard of starting off with a "least aggressive" compound, wash the car to get the dirt off, clay the car to to smooth out the outer LAYER of the clear, use whatever pad or compound you want at first with whatever buffer you want, just keep in mind if you use a "aggressive" compound(trugrit) with a "aggressive" pad(wool) on a "aggressive" speed(3k rpm), you are probaby going to swirl the clear but at least the water spots will be removed. but this can always be corrected with "least aggressive" of everything above(meguire's correction compound, foam, 1k rpm). regardless of what people tell you, when you are correcting a paint/clear issue on a car its always going to look worse before it looks better, thats why most of the paint correction systems you can buy come in multiple stages.
clearcoat is put on by "layers", not some at a time
pretty colors and boldness make you cool
Bold is to convey a correction or a main point.
You may know about detailing, but you obviously know nothing about posting on a forum.
04-12-2012, 11:38 PM
#14
Suzuka Master
The red I used in my above post wasn't sarcasm... it was to tie my text to the text I was refering to.
04-12-2012, 11:45 PM
#16
Suzuka Master
04-12-2012, 11:56 PM
#17
I have, in fact I keep a gallon of the stuff in my arsenal lol.
What you do is you get the mf towel damp with white vinegar (Couple of squeezes from a spray bottle would do), hold the towel over the spots for about a minute, lift it off to see if the light acid (Which would be vinegar) has eaten away at the calcium deposit (Hard water). I know quite a few respected detailers who use this procedure with success.
Wait a minute........ Why am I explaining all this to you, Dale? LOL
What you do is you get the mf towel damp with white vinegar (Couple of squeezes from a spray bottle would do), hold the towel over the spots for about a minute, lift it off to see if the light acid (Which would be vinegar) has eaten away at the calcium deposit (Hard water). I know quite a few respected detailers who use this procedure with success.
Wait a minute........ Why am I explaining all this to you, Dale? LOL
04-12-2012, 11:57 PM
#18
I have also seen people soak a paper towel and do the same procedure and achieved the same results, I imagine for harder to remove water spots (Which has been sitting on paint for a longer amount of time). That makes sense I suppose, use more product for more severe situation.
04-12-2012, 11:58 PM
#19
Suzuka Master
04-13-2012, 01:55 AM
#20
Pro
obviously you dont know me so i wont hold this against you and please dont let my 3 or 4 posts in this entire forum fool you into think i know nothing about detailing cars, i've detailed for rolls royce and im now in my fifth year with mercedes so i think i know what im talking about
first of all i've never heard of starting off with a "least aggressive" compound, wash the car to get the dirt off, clay the car to to smooth out the outer LAYER of the clear, use whatever pad or compound you want at first with whatever buffer you want, just keep in mind if you use a "aggressive" compound(trugrit) with a "aggressive" pad(wool) on a "aggressive" speed(3k rpm), you are probaby going to swirl the clear but at least the water spots will be removed. but this can always be corrected with "least aggressive" of everything above(meguire's correction compound, foam, 1k rpm). regardless of what people tell you, when you are correcting a paint/clear issue on a car its always going to look worse before it looks better, thats why most of the paint correction systems you can buy come in multiple stages.
clearcoat is put on by "layers", not some at a time
pretty colors and boldness make you cool
first of all i've never heard of starting off with a "least aggressive" compound, wash the car to get the dirt off, clay the car to to smooth out the outer LAYER of the clear, use whatever pad or compound you want at first with whatever buffer you want, just keep in mind if you use a "aggressive" compound(trugrit) with a "aggressive" pad(wool) on a "aggressive" speed(3k rpm), you are probaby going to swirl the clear but at least the water spots will be removed. but this can always be corrected with "least aggressive" of everything above(meguire's correction compound, foam, 1k rpm). regardless of what people tell you, when you are correcting a paint/clear issue on a car its always going to look worse before it looks better, thats why most of the paint correction systems you can buy come in multiple stages.
clearcoat is put on by "layers", not some at a time
pretty colors and boldness make you cool
04-13-2012, 05:15 AM
#21
The Old Grey Whistle Test
Perhaps we should be more respectful of other's opinions, especially when they differ and use it as a learning experience Healthy debate isn't a problem; this should be the main purpose of a detailing forum.
As most opinions are at best subjective anyway, and there is always an opposing and often equally valid response, which should be encouraged.
As most opinions are at best subjective anyway, and there is always an opposing and often equally valid response, which should be encouraged.
04-13-2012, 12:59 PM
#22
Pro
Perhaps we should be more respectful of other's opinions, especially when they differ and use it as a learning experience Healthy debate isn't a problem; this should be the main purpose of a detailing forum.
As most opinions are at best subjective anyway, and there is always an opposing and often equally valid response, which should be encouraged.
As most opinions are at best subjective anyway, and there is always an opposing and often equally valid response, which should be encouraged.
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jwr0ng626 (04-14-2012)
04-13-2012, 09:12 PM
#23
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No I don't know you .. BUT I was stressing the least aggressive first for the ones that don't know detaling. A good detailer doesn't automatically jump to a wool pad on a rotary when a finer polish on a D/A will do the job.
Clay doesn't smooth the outer layer of clear it removes the contaminants tht are bonded to the clear.
Regardless of what people tell you .. in a lot of cases its not necessary to make it look worse that it already is by going too aggressive right off the top.
Clear "may" be put on in layers in some cases but polishing doesn't take off a layer at a time.
BTW if you want to name drop .. my son-in-laws CLS 500, SL500 and his Ferarri 355 Spider were all detailed by the dealers detailers.. Took me a few hours each to correct what they did. Not a great bragging platform.
Clay doesn't smooth the outer layer of clear it removes the contaminants tht are bonded to the clear.
Regardless of what people tell you .. in a lot of cases its not necessary to make it look worse that it already is by going too aggressive right off the top.
Clear "may" be put on in layers in some cases but polishing doesn't take off a layer at a time.
BTW if you want to name drop .. my son-in-laws CLS 500, SL500 and his Ferarri 355 Spider were all detailed by the dealers detailers.. Took me a few hours each to correct what they did. Not a great bragging platform.
you're right clay does remove contaminents from the clear.......in turn smoothing out the outer clear LAYER, word it how you want the results will still be the same
you have your opinions and I have mine but dont insinuate that im wrong just because its not something that you would do......which i dont understand why removing the spots would be done any other way.
not all of the detailers at the dealers are cut from the same cloth, a lot of them are teenagers just looking to get a paycheck
Last edited by theedeadmau5; 04-13-2012 at 09:19 PM.
04-13-2012, 10:06 PM
#24
Suzuka Master
i've never seen a fine polish and a DA pull out hard water spots, and since hard water spots is what the OP was referring to, a wool pad on a rotary with trugrit, then a microfiber on a DA with correction compound/blue compound, then a foam on a DA with a polish would be my course of action if washing or claying didnt remove the spots.
you're right clay does remove contaminents from the clear.......in turn smoothing out the outer clear LAYER, word it how you want the results will still be the same
you have your opinions and I have mine but dont insinuate that im wrong just because its not something that you would do......which i dont understand why removing the spots would be done any other way.
not all of the detailers at the dealers are cut from the same cloth, a lot of them are teenagers just looking to get a paycheck
you're right clay does remove contaminents from the clear.......in turn smoothing out the outer clear LAYER, word it how you want the results will still be the same
you have your opinions and I have mine but dont insinuate that im wrong just because its not something that you would do......which i dont understand why removing the spots would be done any other way.
not all of the detailers at the dealers are cut from the same cloth, a lot of them are teenagers just looking to get a paycheck
Ok your right ... better man than me ... can tell it's hard water spots without even seeing the car.
And as far as dealer detailers .. your the one that made the reference implying that you were good because of where you worked .. I just pointed out thats not always the case ..
You may not understand why water spots would be removed in any other way because you won't accept there is another way ..
You do it your way .. I''ll do it mine .. I just prefer to leave the car owner with as much clear coat as possible which in turn gives less chance of clear failure in the future. A good portion of the UV protection is in the top area of the clear.
Any way .. you win ....
04-13-2012, 10:39 PM
#25
Three Wheelin'
obviously you dont know me so i wont hold this against you and please dont let my 3 or 4 posts in this entire forum fool you into think i know nothing about detailing cars, i've detailed for rolls royce and im now in my fifth year with mercedes so i think i know what im talking about
first of all i've never heard of starting off with a "least aggressive" compound, wash the car to get the dirt off, clay the car to to smooth out the outer LAYER of the clear, use whatever pad or compound you want at first with whatever buffer you want, just keep in mind if you use a "aggressive" compound(trugrit) with a "aggressive" pad(wool) on a "aggressive" speed(3k rpm), you are probaby going to swirl the clear but at least the water spots will be removed. but this can always be corrected with "least aggressive" of everything above(meguire's correction compound, foam, 1k rpm). regardless of what people tell you, when you are correcting a paint/clear issue on a car its always going to look worse before it looks better, thats why most of the paint correction systems you can buy come in multiple stages.
clearcoat is put on by "layers", not some at a time
pretty colors and boldness make you cool
first of all i've never heard of starting off with a "least aggressive" compound, wash the car to get the dirt off, clay the car to to smooth out the outer LAYER of the clear, use whatever pad or compound you want at first with whatever buffer you want, just keep in mind if you use a "aggressive" compound(trugrit) with a "aggressive" pad(wool) on a "aggressive" speed(3k rpm), you are probaby going to swirl the clear but at least the water spots will be removed. but this can always be corrected with "least aggressive" of everything above(meguire's correction compound, foam, 1k rpm). regardless of what people tell you, when you are correcting a paint/clear issue on a car its always going to look worse before it looks better, thats why most of the paint correction systems you can buy come in multiple stages.
clearcoat is put on by "layers", not some at a time
pretty colors and boldness make you cool
04-14-2012, 08:27 AM
#27
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Ok your right ... better man than me ... can tell it's hard water spots without even seeing the car.
And as far as dealer detailers .. your the one that made the reference implying that you were good because of where you worked .. I just pointed out thats not always the case ..
You may not understand why water spots would be removed in any other way because you won't accept there is another way ..
You do it your way .. I''ll do it mine .. I just prefer to leave the car owner with as much clear coat as possible which in turn gives less chance of clear failure in the future. A good portion of the UV protection is in the top area of the clear.
Any way .. you win ....
And as far as dealer detailers .. your the one that made the reference implying that you were good because of where you worked .. I just pointed out thats not always the case ..
You may not understand why water spots would be removed in any other way because you won't accept there is another way ..
You do it your way .. I''ll do it mine .. I just prefer to leave the car owner with as much clear coat as possible which in turn gives less chance of clear failure in the future. A good portion of the UV protection is in the top area of the clear.
Any way .. you win ....
and i just wrote that i've never seen hard water spots removed any other way because the hard water spots we encounter here are rather severe and you really dont have a choice but to take off some clear(see im a nice guy), people do not understand you can't wash your car from the spicket in your back yard and let the 90 degree weather dry it, i dont think it gets that warm in canada
and you think they just let anyone touch a roll royce or a sls or a 63 model of any mercedes? no they dont
never said its something i would do but its a option. and no, factory clear is pretty resilient but of course anything will burn with a wool pad and compound at 3k if you stay on one spot long enough just have to realize when enough is enough, aftermarket clear is usually a lot softer so i wouldn't recommend a wool pad and rotary with it, strictly DA.
04-14-2012, 08:39 AM
#28
Suzuka Master
and i just wrote that i've never seen hard water spots removed any other way because the hard water spots we encounter here are rather severe and you really dont have a choice but to take off some clear(see im a nice guy), people do not understand you can't wash your car from the spicket in your back yard and let the 90 degree weather dry it, i dont think it gets that warm in canada Hard water spots are different all over .. different minerals etc etc etc and as for the temperatures in Canada check this link and click on average highs and record highs http://www.weather.com/weather/wxcli...graph/CAXX0507
and you think they just let anyone touch a roll royce or a sls or a 63 model of any mercedes? no they dont See my post above .. they do .. even Ferraris. There is numerous threads in here showing some of our members work correcting new high end cars.
.
and you think they just let anyone touch a roll royce or a sls or a 63 model of any mercedes? no they dont See my post above .. they do .. even Ferraris. There is numerous threads in here showing some of our members work correcting new high end cars.
.
04-14-2012, 08:55 AM
#29
Suzuka Master
you want at first with whatever buffer you want, just keep in mind if you use a "aggressive" compound(trugrit) with a "aggressive" pad(wool) on a "aggressive" speed(3k rpm), you are probaby going to swirl the clear but at least the water spots will be removed.
never said its something i would do but its a option. and no, factory clear is pretty resilient but of course anything will burn with a wool pad and compound at 3k if you stay on one spot long enough just have to realize when enough is enough, aftermarket clear is usually a lot softer so i wouldn't recommend a wool pad and rotary with it, strictly DA.
04-14-2012, 09:04 AM
#30
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i was being modest as far as the temps go broski, your record temp isnt hard to accomplish here in NC when you include the humidity, and 100 degrees a few times in june, july, and august without humidity is nothing out of the ordinary.
and im sure you've been to the mercedes benz dealership here in cary, nc so you know exactly how we operate.
and im sure you've been to the mercedes benz dealership here in cary, nc so you know exactly how we operate.
04-14-2012, 09:11 AM
#31
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You also have to realize when you make a statement like you did ( bold above ) the people in here that are asking the question are not experienced detailers and the first thing they are going to do is go to Harbour Frieght and get a $30 rotary and some Turtle Wax rubbing compound and go at it because thats what a Rolls Royce detailer said to do . And its cheaper than a PC ... You never would have quantified "never said it was something I would do " until a few threads later and only you were put to task by mY sLOW UA6 .
04-17-2012, 04:43 PM
#32
lol
Lets put the Pitch forks down boys!
Every car is different and every person uses a different technique for each car they use.
Were all here to learn firstly.
At least you can try the other guys thing and see if you like it.
But Im going to try a distilled Vinegar solution with a cloth now.
but could I geta quick breakdown of some shorthands?
DO?
DA?
PO?
Lets put the Pitch forks down boys!
Every car is different and every person uses a different technique for each car they use.
Were all here to learn firstly.
At least you can try the other guys thing and see if you like it.
But Im going to try a distilled Vinegar solution with a cloth now.
but could I geta quick breakdown of some shorthands?
DO?
DA?
PO?
04-17-2012, 05:33 PM
#33
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DA stands for dual action, basically its a hand held machine that oscillates, produces no heat so it doesn't burn or swirl the paint. a rotary does everything a DA does but better, IMO. but if you haven't been detailing or painting for at least 3 or 4 years, do not attempt a rotary.
i dont remember PO being used, OP stands for original poster
i dont see DO being used either
i dont remember PO being used, OP stands for original poster
i dont see DO being used either
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