brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I noticed hardrace makes suspension parts listed for the 99-03 tl and 98-02 accord.

They show both hardened rubber and pillowball mount rear toe arms and camber kit. For make enter the 99-03 tl. They don't show them for the accord or cl.
http://www.hardrace.com/Search.asp

This uk site also shows front LCA, front UCA, steering bushing, etc. Enter 98-02 accord as make.
http://www.hardrace.co.uk/honda.html?cat=689

If you put any of the items in your cart they all say on backorder tho.

The pillowball arms look expensive. I just need to figure out where you can buy them.

The US distributor shows none of those items on their site.
http://www.buyhardrace.com/categorie...-98-02_37.html

I have sent them messages about where to buy and just need to hear back.

Anyone else have any experience with the company or can find where to purchase would be nice.

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

I just found out the other week that the bushings that companies are claiming fit the accord, cl, tl... is actually false.

i got the wicked tuning rear camber kit that was supposedly for my car and the bushing receiver was .015 larger than oem, and it made a hell of a clanging. SO. from my experience i would order bushings from the DLR. or ones that you know for a fact are the exact same as oem.

0.015 does not sound like much but when u see the slop it creates you will be amazed at how crucial proper clearances are.

it took me 3 years to figure that out! i had those arms on my car and i had the worst noise coming from the back over bumps and once i removed them it was so friking obvious. i felt like an idiot for it taking me 1000days to figure that one out LOL

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Do you have the part number for the wicked tuning rear camber you received? They do have different part numbers for 1st gen cl, 2nd gen cl, tsx, and 3rd gen tl.

Those arms on my car are new oem and I still have a clunk. I will be disassembling the whole rear suspension and inspecting next Monday when I booked lift time.

I will be replacing the ingalls arms with oem. I also have all new bolts, washers, and nuts.

I want something with more adjustability in the future. The spherical pillowball bushings would help with handling also. I would also like to remove that stupid bolt and washer for adjusting toe and use the arm to do that. Otherwise your alignment can get hit out of spec going over rough roads.

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

Brian I told you when I went to oem arms the noise got cut in half at least..

I will be ordering new bolts from the dlr and then will weld on material so I can grind it back to the exact thickness and there will be no room for slop.


When I ordered the wicked tuning kit it was listed as working for the tl, cl, and accord.

It was like these iirc...

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/WICKED-TUNING...vxp=mtr&_uhb=1

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Well I removed the ingalls rear arms and replaced with new oem. I also replaced all bolts, washers and nuts. The rear feels so much nicer now. I drove for 2 hours and the only noise I heard was from hitting what looked like a speed bump at higher speeds than I should go over it(only once). Otherwise it performed flawlessly.

I ordered the pillowball rear toe arms(4 arms) and the rear pillow ball camber kit. I also ordered pillowball bushings for the front UCA. I will make my own toe lock out kit.

It does not seem like anyone is interested so I will most likely not post up the results.

Marcelechka

With all due respect to you and the rest of the community, I for one actually like looking through your threads as they are VERY informative. NOW.... posting comments is a different story... [your] responses are usually perceived to include sarcasm with a hint of negativity . Whether it's intentional or not is beside the point, but it usually come off that way. Something to think about going forward.

That said...

I plan on doing the opposite tomorrow. Although we have different goals, any feedback on the ingalls? I'm surprised you like the OEM setup over the aftermarket / custom setup?

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

Maybe you and I Brian are the only ones unfortunate enough to have to deal with this probelm. Then again... I have a feeling a bunch of ppl must also have this issue and do not hear it due to there music playing loud all the time or continuous hot climates.

So you are saying replacing the two lower trailing arms on both sides is what fixed you up?

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I speak my mind and voice my opinions. I am not really concerned what others think of me. I do find it funny people hate you if you have a different opinion then them. I even have people pm'ing me threatening my life over a car forum. But enough about that, because I could care less.

The ingalls arms offer camber and toe adjustment. That is the only benefit over oem(oem offers toe adj from the bolt, ingalls the arm adjusts). The ingalls bushings are softer and worse than oem. Many people have had the bushings go bad prematurely, even though my ingall arms bushings still look good.

I received my hardrace parts the other day. They all look nice and like quality parts.

Here is the box after opening.


Here are the pillow ball toe arms compared to ingalls arms. The hardrace arms weigh a little more, but I expected that with metal bearings.


Pillow ball camber arms.


UCA pillow ball bearings


Steering bushing


From comparing parts they all look like they should fit. I am going to wait until I get back from national acura meet to install them.

I might also order their LCA's and tie rod ends in the future.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

The front UCA pillowball bushing upgrade appeals to me. My OEM's have about 144K on them, so if I can upgrade to these, that would be cool.

Will you be inserting these into the OEM front UCA's, if that can even be accomplished?

Or have you purchased new front UCA's that I have missed you posting about?

Good Luck!

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I have my set of ingalls full UCA's I could use them in, or I also have a set of oem UCA'swith less than 5k miles on them also. I need camber adjustment so if I used oem I would need a spc camber kit also.

I noticed hardrace sells UCA's with rubber bushings, but not with pillowball. I should have probably asked them if they could sell the pillow ball bushings in their UCA's. I want to ask them to send me a pic of the LCA's with rubber bushings. They don't have a pic online and I am curious how they look.

Here is another option for rear camber arms
http://www.6thgenaccord.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=47259

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

I will likely buy these then if they do not cause any problems.

Can u measure the oem vs the hard race bushings inside diameter and see if how much they differ?

I am curious to see if they are like the wicked tuning arms that were over 1 hundredth different

When I went in for an alignment they said the rear bolts are really stiff and were afraid to touch the rear toe because the said the bolts may snap. So tint would be nice if these could be the fix for both the clicking and getting my alignment mint again.

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

I might need some rear camber soon, in for updates.

Marcelechka

In for updates.

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

How is this working for you? Did u get the parts on yet? I am dying to finally get rid of this damn clicking

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I am planning on waiting till after the national acura meet to install them. I am running out of time before then.

I did compare the UCA pillow ball bushings to the oem arm bushings. I can almost say for sure they will fit.

I spent 3 days cleaning/polishing/waxing, then a few more days redoing my cf mirror panels with better and thinner full real cf. the apr cf panels are just fiberglass with a layer of cf on top. Spent a few more days repositioning my allview rearview mirror and made all custom aluminum brackets. Spent last few days redoing my moonroof delete panel. It is now made with tinted scratch proof race quality lexan. Now I can look up at the clouds it stars again.

I don't think it would be wise to install this now, just incase there is an issue and I need to swap back before driving 2000 miles. I still need an alignment also.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

This is encouraging. Does it look as IF the OEM UCA bushings can be pressed out, by any chance?

I tried to get a good look, last week, at mine when replacing my outer tie rods with Moog's; however, there is nothing like observing them while they are fully out of the car, just curious?


That gasket idea turned out to be a pretty good suggestion

Post up a pic of the final version if you get a chance.

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

Well I will be bugging you for updates after u have the suspension all set cause I am going to acura for all new rear bushings installed if I cannot get this solved soon. Even if it costs me 800 $ I simply am tired of blasting music to get rid of the damn sound.

And on a hot day it goes away completely, so it's just taunting me

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I understand your frustration. If I figure anything out you will be the first to know.

I just realized I never replaced the 2 trailing arms and also the 4 knuckle bushings. I ordered new oem trailing arms. I need to decide between oem or hardrace hardened rubber for rear knuckle bushings. I would prefer waiting to do it all at once.

I wonder how long sub frame bushings last.

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

Omg there are like 20 bushings then that could be the culprit... Fak.

I guess I will just have to wait to get a new car to have a quiet ride again.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I ordered the hardrace lower control arms, rear knuckle bushings, and roll center adjuster. The LCA is an Oem arm painted blue with hardrace's hardened rubber bushings. The knuckle bushings are also hardened rubber. They did not offer pillowball bushings for these. They should arrive today.

The tsx spherical bearings I bought did not fit the control arms. The accord energy suspension poly bushings should fit, but I think hardrace bushings might be the better choice.

I will also install the ES bushings in my old arms that I removed Oem bushings from.

I am just waiting on new bolts, etc. from acura. I plan on getting it done before my next autocross on the 19th.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

New goodies arrived!! Can't wait to install them.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I scheduled lift time for tomorrow and Wednesday. I scheduled alignment for thursday, and have 2 autocross events at Tire Rack on Saturday and Sunday. Hopefully everything goes smooth and I can report back after.

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

In for results!

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Everything is installed besides the steering bushing and the 2 rear upper knuckle bushings. The upper knuckle bushing replacement would require me to at least remove the coilover and brake caliper. We ran out of lift time so I will do those 2 later. Besides for those all my suspension bushings are basically new besides subframe bushings.

My initial impressions are that the car feels amazing. It is more responsive feeling. It actually makes less noise now, but it did feel more bouncy from the pillowball bushings. If you like comfort this is not for you, but it doesn't bother me.

I still have a noise from the rear right occasionally, but it is better than before. I think I have pinpointed the noise to the rear passenger coilover spring. I think the spring is coming loose on rebound over gagged bumps. It could just be I need to adjust spring preload, or maybe it needs to be revalved and resprung for lower weight.

I will go into further detail later about install, my impressions, and post some pics.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I would order those if I were you. You can install them in Oem or ingall's arms. I installed mine in the ingall's. My mechanic removed Oem bushings when I was busy, so I didn't see how he did it. To get the new bushings in we just used a vice.

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

So how the hell do I remove the rear strut bushing. I order the new ones from twin and they clearly are way sturdier than the ones on my car... Dam it needs replaceing.

So I imagine I remove the coilover find something exactly the size of the bushing and then press it out?

I have solid aluminum coilovers so I don't think I will be using any heat..?

zeta

iTrader: (1)

1) Do you want to dispose of your OEM UCA's for a reasonable price? If so, provide a shipped price to my PM. The reason I ask is because it is a lot easier to have another set to get taken care of, at the machine shop, then have to pull mine and coordinate the whole process being a daily driver and all.

2) The Hardrace UCA pillow ball part #, from the U.K. website, is '6341 Accord 98-02 RA6-9 F Up Arm Bush PB 4PC'. Can you confirm that's what you received?

3) The U.S. distributor contact info. shows that they have a '561' area code, which when googled shows up as the 'Velocityshop' out of Riviera Beach, FL.

Is this the place you interacted with/ordered from when trying to determine 'where to buy'?

If possible, I would rather purchase the UCA PBall bearings in the U.S. to save postage from the U.K.

Thanks.

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

Ingalls uca come with the pillow ball bushings if I recall correctly. They just glide lol

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

what coilovers are you running? You want to use Oem strut bushings? You are referring to the bushings by the top hats right? For my coilovers, Oem bushings won't work. When I had koni's tho they used Oem size. You can use some ES poly ones for the accord, or the ones for the 3rd Gen too are stiffer also. You just have to use a drill to open up the washer hole some.

To remove don't you just remove those 2 jam nuts on top?

I will let you know if I want to sell them soon. That is the correct part number. That is the shop I dealt with and received my parts from.

Hmm really? I can't confirm since mine are in garbage I think. I do know the Oem and ingall's bushings move really easy just by hand, whereas the hardrace I couldn't move at all by hand. That could just be they need to break in tho.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

The individual I spoke with on the phone told me I would have to order them from the U.K website.

Is there a specific point of contact (individual), that you dealt with that may be more informed on purchasing these via the U.S.

Thanks.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I just contacted/dealt with them through email. Their email address is sales@buyhardrace.com. It takes them 3-7 days to reply but they always replied. I just gave them a list of the part numbers I wanted and asked them to send the invoice to my paypal. They sent the invoice, I paid, then the parts arrived at my door.

The boxes were shipped from Taiwan though, so I assume they were made there to cut down on cost. I think I paid about 40 for shipping for each order.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I could definitely tell a big difference when doing the autocross runs. The turn in feels much improved and it just feels more responsive to directional changes. The purchase was definitely worth it.

Everything fit perfectly. Here are a few pics I took during install:

Rear arms installed.


UCA bushings installed.


Front LCA's being installed.


LCA's on


I switched up my alignment specs. I went with -2.3 camber in front with 1/8 inch toe out. For the rear I went with -1.2 camber and 0 toe. I had -2 camber and 1/8 inch toe out in rear prior and only -1.7 camber in front.

I have been running the wrong tire pressures the whole time I have autox'd. My front pressures have been fine. For the fronts I go with 37-40 cold pressure. For the rear I was running the pressure way too low which did not allow me to rotate the rear end like you need for auto-x. I was running them at 36 on Saturday and 40 on Sunday at tirerack. I think I need to up it a lil more. One of the fastest drivers/cars is a honda crx. He runs his pressures at 37-39 front and 45 rear. That seems like the right setup for my car also.

There were 18 cars in my class and I ended up 5th. I was trying to have fun and not focus on times too much. The fastest car in my group was a lotus exige. I was only 1 second off his time, and I can see a lot of places where I could improve. So based on that I think my car can put down better times than a lotus exige. I just need a lil more experience. A really good driver in my car would get 1st place. I find that very rewarding for all the hard work I have put into this car.

I did some practice runs afterwards without the pressure and felt like I did much better times.

I get a lot of comments about how clean my car is and how it is nice to see something different that noone else uses.

I really need to practice and learn left foot braking to get the best times with fwd. Another good tip is to not shuffle your hands on the steering wheel. Keep your hands in one position the whole time, unless you have to move them for a really tight turn.

I thought I was a good driver before auto-x. It was an eye opener to find out I was not a good driver. They say it takes most ppl about 5 years to get really good.

I was able to get a few runs on video, but my gopro camera is acting funny lately.

This is from saturday event:


This is one run from Sunday event:

fsttyms1

Depending on the track i usually run 37-38 warm front 40-43 rear warm. Gotta be carefull with the fronts though, depending on the track you can scrub a lot of heat into them and if you set them up cold psi too high once warm it will feel like you are driving on a wet track.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

yea, I use a water sprayer between runs to try and cool tires some and check pressures between runs. At Tire rack we only got 4 to 5 runs per session tho with a good amount of time between runs. I didn't even need water sprayer really. At local events we usually get 8 to 10 runs per session.

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

Where's all the rust? Your car looks brand new underneath!

I love the autox videos. Keep sharing! Your car seems so nimble. You can tell the weight removal from watching.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I guess my car is pretty clean underneath.

vader88

Hey everyone im a noob I jus wanted any advice for a 98 avura CL pls anything would help.

vader88

Its actually a 98 CL but 2.3 and its also standard I wanted advice on this car because all I see are 2.2 and 3.0 automatic CLs and I want to know if its worth keeping or if its rare jus let me know watever u can anybody thank you

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Can you please post in 1st Gen cl section and not clutter up my thread.

Ponto

I agree - nimble and more vids!

I am doing my first track day on Aug 4 at Autobahn in Joliet.