ssjoeboe9

So recently I've noticed that when I try to shift above 6500 RPM I am getting a lot of resistance when pulling it into gear (this happens practically at all gear levels i.e 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, 3rd to 4th). It's different than the common 3rd gear problem where it feels like it hits a wall. While normal shifting, there is absolutely no resistance and easily slides into the next gear.

I figured it wouldn't hurt to change the MTF and see if that helped ( I changed it around 70K miles and now Im at 96k miles). While normal shifting did feel slightly improved, I was still having the same problem.

I am inclined to think the synchros are bad, but find it really hard to believe that all of them would be experiencing the same symptoms. I'd also like to note that there is no grinding at all.

Im kinda lost as to what's going on, and my warranty expires in 10 days lol. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears!

ssjoeboe9

I guess I should also note that I do have a short shifter adapter from CT Engineering. It's been installed for a couple years now, but I don't ever remember it having that much resistance at high rpm.

Maybe someone who has a short shifter adapter could chime in?

iCrap

it's the MTF i'm sure. I know someone who has had the same issue.
Also how do you still have warranty?

ssjoeboe9

I literally just changed the fluid today! It made no difference other than better quality shifts at lower RPM.

I am under warranty for another 10 days, but I'm not sure that this would be covered on the extended 100,000 mile warranty.. nor am I in the same state the car was bought in.

waaasobe

ive noticed this issue from 1-2 so i have to short shift at around 6. i have no issues with all other gears though. i changed my mtf 2 days ago because 3rd was getting notchy but i haven't tried the hard shift from 1-2 yet. the mtf change has definitely helped alleviate the notchy feeling though.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

since the CT-E short shifter adapter isnt really a short shifter, it wouldnt hurt to investigate.

but wait, if the ball joint came undone, I dont think you would be able to shift at all.

it has to be synchros then.
hopefully, you practice good shifting techniques, especially rev matching if down shifting.


What kind of MTF do you guise use???
I know the Honda stuff sucks. and Ive been using GM syncromesh modified fluid for about 30k miles now.

UTAH TSX

I have used this in several 8th gen civic SI's with amazing results
http://stores.axionind.com/torco-mtf...id-change-kit/

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Cool, Ill give that a try

ssjoeboe9

Let me know what you find out

I can almost eliminate it being the synchros because there is no grinding... Like at all..

The mtf that Honda uses has been modified for like 4 years now and is equiv. to the gm stuff.

I'm leaning toward two things causing the problem:

1.Clutch not disengaging properly, especially at high rpm. Maybe pressure plate failure of some sort. Possibly a bent fork.. But unlikely.

2. Soft motor mounts causing a lot of movement in the engine, thus increasing the stiffness of transition between gears

UTAH TSX

1. Clutch not disengaging properly, especially at high rpm. Maybe pressure plate failure of some sort. Possibly a bent fork.. But unlikely.

2. Soft motor mounts causing a lot of movement in the engine, thus increasing the stiffness of transition between gears[/QUOTE]
No cable system engine movement won't matter

ssjoeboe9

No cable system engine movement won't matter[/QUOTE]

I don't think I understand your response, please elaborate.

iCrap

Granny shiftin,' not double clutchin' like you should.

rawger

I'm sorry to say...but the diagnoses is...an automatic transmission.

iCrap

He has an MT lol

optimusaccord

I would point to clutch like Utah mentioned.

The engine and tranny actually bolt together. The oil pan has bolts that tie the block to the transmission.

As for the shift interface between the shifter and the transmission, we use cables. The cables have play in them that allots for movement of the engine/transmission.

I have replaced these cables, because they bent. Back in the day I did some test fitting for solid aluminum bushings... it did not go well.

ssjoeboe9

I actually said it might be the clutch lol.. Utah somehow misquoted me haha

Anyways, I talked to another guy on the "cu2squad" group on fb who is having a similar problem to mine, but from only 1st to 2nd.. Now that is where i get the most resistance, I sill have resistance in the other gears too. I'm really starting to lean towards the clutch being the issue.. or clutch package.

I might wait for another 10-15k miles to replace it though lol.. I don't really wanna do that install myself since I only have one car, it's a pretty intensive job. And I dont wanna pay $800 in labor just yet either haha

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I was going to say clutch, however, my dual mass fly wheel is different than your single.


That's all I got.

rawger

Poor wording on my part, what I was trying to say is he needs to convert it to automatic lol.

ssjoeboe9

Who really knows? Just speculation at this point.

Tried reading civic forums.. they have a million and half things that they have done to "cure" the symptoms of what I'm describing.

I'm sure I will find out pretty quickly if it's the clutch when I replace it. Lets hope that's it and I don't have to do some tranny work.... sounds sickening to think about it really.

optimusaccord

If it starts getting harder to put into gear while the engine is hot or cold I'd lean more towards clutch package. If it gets impossible to put into gear at a stop, def clutch.

caeavesrsx-s

Wasn't there something about a divertor valve somewhere in the system? A member removed it because it slows your shifting down to prevent driveline shock. It's escaping me at 3:30 am.

ssjoeboe9

Yeah I remember that too, justin commented on it. I wouldn't think that would be the case, but it might be something to look into.

Thanks for the input

waaasobe

I've been running my car hard the last couple of days and i have been running through the gears.i experienced the issue while going into 4th at high rpm but I'm going to have to attribute this to user error. the 1-2 is still an issue i feel as though I'm locked out at high rpm. I'm kinda at a loss for what the issue could be. i do remember reading somewhere on the forum a member with a 6mt was having a similar issue and it turned out to be his pressure plate. don't quote me on this because it was quite a while ago.

ssjoeboe9

Yeah, and I read similar things as well on the civic forum.

Actually, my brothers first gen tsx was having some kind of similar problem, and I definitely know it was his pressure plate that was failing, I just can't remember the symptoms he was having. I'll ask him and see if he remembers.

optimusaccord

The clutch delay valve can be removed, If this is the problem, however, you should be able to hold down the clutch pedal for a longer period and row the lever into the desired gear.

If there is physical resistance, and the clutch is fully depressed, I would look to clutch.

ssjoeboe9

yeah, I actually just looked at the diagram for the delay orifice mechanism.

I wasn't sure if it worked both ways though.. i.e delaying clutch release from engine, and delaying clutch engagement.

BUT, it does not work both ways. It only prevents you from "re-engaging" too quickly. Meaning "popping the clutch"

Im gunna ask some transmission guys at work what they think. We have a transmission test group that might be familiar with these symptoms. Ill let yall know if I find out anything useful. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but it really is useful to understand what is happening rather than just changing a bunch of parts to see if it helps.

optimusaccord

Oh, I totally agree.

I just remember that being real slick with the clutch isn't as smooth on the cu2 due to the delay valve. Engagement is quick, but disengagement is slowed, or delayed.

That's why I brought up the suggestion to hold in the clutch just a little longer than you would regularly if you are at high rpm, and shifting gears in a "spirited" fashion.

ssjoeboe9

So unfortunately I wasn't able to get any information from the test group at work..

But I took it the Honda service center and one of the techs did a ride along, and he said he had "never seen something like that before"-- haha they always seem to say that lol

He agreed with our clutch/pressure plate theory, but said he was gunna ask some M/T guys he knew from Toyota..

Also mentioned that he had seen some "crazy stuff" happen with hydraulics and suggested that replacing the rubber hose that goes to the slave cylinder as a good 1st step to diagnosing the problem (that's number 15 on the diagram below) He said that he has seen build up/corrosion along the inner walls of those rubber lines before. It's only a $10 part so it might be worth it. Kinda makes sense... might try it.

optimusaccord

I bought the SS line from HT years ago..... Haven't put it on yet though.

2k5TSX

Wow. You have a very similar problem to what I have. 2008 Honda Accord with the 5-speed manual gear box. Very low KMs, I recently had my MTF changed at Honda because I found the shifts a little notchy.. but now I can't shift without noticeable resistance from 1-2 above 6500RPM... If I bounce off the limiter at 7100RPM i'm completely locked out of pulling my car out of 1st.

I was pretty convinced my 1-2 syncro was toast.. but maybe it is the clutch.. its always been super worn since I bought the car 2 years ago used... never quite felt right.

I have a year left of extended warranty... but hesitant to bring it to Honda as they may blame it on wear/tear. I'm hoping you find a solution.. for now I shift below 6500 and the car is completely fine.

ssjoeboe9

Yeah, Ill let everyone know if a new clutch fixes the problem. Might be a few months down the road though.. pretty big purchase.

If you have extended warranty I would ask for them to look at it, maybe they will take care of the cost for you if it is the clutch pack.

Jaheri_cbp

Thanks joe... Now the same shit is happening w my car and I completely blame you!

ssjoeboe9

damn

Well I can somewhat relieve some tension.

Got a magnet out and let it sit in the MTF for little while then dumped it. This was the only piece that it picked up. So I think it's safe to say now that this is NOT a transmission problem.

Jaheri_cbp

Good news!! It def does not feel like a synchro issue cuz it doesn't grind like you mention.. But earlier today I was messing with a focus ST that could not keep up around corners.. But in that span of time messing with him and hooning some corners It felt like I hit a wall trying to shift into third twice and second once.. Had to rev match and re-throw every time it didn't want to engage.. Recently my clutch master cylinder started squeaking so maybe that could be the issue with just not disengaging/engaging fully but I won't know until I change that out.. I hope that's the issue cuz I don't want to change the clutch yet.. It still grabs gooood

ssjoeboe9

Well if you change the clutch master cylinder before I get around to redoing the entire clutch pack, please let us know if that fixes the problem.. although that wouldn't be good new for me cause it's one more part I would need haha

xtcnrice

a pretty expensive one too I'd imagine

optimusaccord

Every one of my honda master cylinders has had this squeak you are talking about.

It's not the MC itself, it is actually in the clutch pedal assembly that the squeaking occurs.

ssjoeboe9

welp at least I won't have to buy a new MC with an upgraded clutch pack haha

Jaheri_cbp

The thing is... When I spray lithium grease inside where the shaft depresses into the mc to band aid the noise (cuz that shit drives me nuts) it stops "squeaking" for a few days.. I know the old pedal assemblies start making a "clicking" when they start to fail which my 91 accord did after 230,000 miles... But this "squeaking" after doing a bit of research points more to the actual mc itself... My uncle had a 2000 gsr (my family likes honda/acura) which started squeaking like mine... Which he disregarded until he had dot3 leaking everywhere on his floorboard... Sooooo, now I'm confused thanks lol

optimusaccord

Oh, if it seems to be the master cylinder, do not let me stop you sir.

I was just throwing out what I have experienced in the past.

Back in the late 90s and early 00s Honda used plastic slave cylinders, which broke, and the replacement part was iron or steel. So I understand what you are saying.

Mine does not make a squeak, it makes the click. I can also hear the clutch kill switch click every time I hit the clutch.