fsttyms1

Oh please, neither are Frams and i have NEVER had a motor problem due to them. (over 1 million miles driven)

fsttyms1

While that motor is out Turn the motor to TDC and change teh timing belt and tensioner.

01tl4tl

yes Kris - and fram used to be better than now--what hasnt gone down in quality..
Cant deny they have seen use on some of my cars over the years- now I have a reason to use an expensive filter--its the same one for my bike! and the bike oil gets changed (ugh) every 2-3000miles...

OP plans to reuse the brand new belt- pump and tensioners off the busted TL motor
for the replacement motor (engine)
any contra-indications there kris?

01tl4tl

Check the front motor mount while its all apart-
those tend to go bad and are often found at trans failure time,, when the tech looks up and sees fluid coming from the mount

jrdecat

Soooo...the engine comes out from underneath? That's what the Helm's manual says, but CAN it come out above? I don't really have the equipment to take it out underneath and most everything is already apart. I should have read the manual BEFORE taking it all apart...

Let the laughter commence, I'm having another beer.

totaledTL

I would have plenty of beer on hand for this one-

Rhlieu

Wow this is very cool...I have never seen the process of removing/installing an engine in our TL. Please try to keep us posted with pictures along the way! GOOD LUCK my friend

fsttyms1

Pull it out the top. Its much much easier and less involved. Just undo the hood struts take the left hood strut mounting ball and thread it down just above the hood hinge (there is a threaded hole for it) and hook the left(drivers side) strut to it to hold the hood vertical.

Pull the trans out with the motor all one unit, it will be easier to mate the 2 together outside the car (but not necessary)

FirePR2002

X2 - you'll spend an eternity trying to get it out the bottom without proper tools and a lift with motor supports. pull it out the top and put the new one in the same way with that new engine hoist you bought.

jrdecat

Whew! I was worried about getting it out of the bottom. I thought it looked like there was enough room, but when I read the manual (after) I started second guessing myself.

So let's say that for some reason a person pulls of an a/c hose and refrigerant spews all over your garage...can you recharge yourself or do you have to pay someone way too much to do it? Anybody got any instructions. I guess I COULD read the dang manual.

01tl4tl

regardless of ones choice of filter branding,
the fact that this one is relativly clean on its case shows it was changed within recent memory = thats better than finding an old filter,,

the car did get the oil changed,,and thats the big part of keeping a TL running

01tl4tl

PM me when you can for AC instructions

Yes it happens when you remove a hose- BUT it was an accidental discharge so we wont fine you any carbon credits for the atmospheric damage

Shops have to recycle the freon- and charge 60 bucks a lb for it to install!!!- we use 2. some lbs- it says on the compressor
at parts stores- 1 lb can $10

jrdecat

Thank you very much for the offer. I can't PM yet...I'm still on my 15 day probationary period after joining the forum.

fsttyms1

You should have left them attached to the AC compressor and just unbolted the compressor from the motor.

Yes it can be done by yourself BUT you really should go to a AC service shop, let them Vac the system and reoil and recharge it.

jrdecat

Engine out...what a mess. That was a little harder than anticipated. So is there a trick to getting the crank pulley off? We put a 300 ft/lb impact on there and nothing budged. We're trying to put a new timing belt, tensioner, and water pump on.

FirePR2002

you'll need the pulley tool to bust the bolt or you can jam a screw driver in the teeth for leverage. a breaker bar, couple of heavy friends, and an extension pipe may be necessary.

when i had my lightweight pulley installed, the shop had to rent a bigger impact wrench to bust it loose.

01tl4tl

kragen sells a `Honda pulley removal tool` that slips in and holds the assembly from turning. may have to order for you
~20 bucks iirc

01tl4tl

please dont use IMPACT guns on the crank bolt!!!
not good for the crankshaft in general
The bolt is on with 181 foot pounds torque plus age/corrosion bond
Try tightening first- then loosen- that often breaks the bond
that trick works on the brake rotor screws too

get a big breaker bar and 2 buddies for this job

jrdecat

Just an update: we're almost done! My uncle is coming over today to help with the finishing touches.
1. Go to NAPA and get new radiator and heater hoses
2. Crack a beer
3. Install radiator and heater hoses
4. Install radiator fans
5. Hook up alternator
6. Install air intake
7. Guess where a few misc wires should go
8. Install battery
9. Cross our fingers and hope for the best
10. Have a beer to celebrate, or have a beer to drown my sorrows.

totaledTL

You will need more beer between steps 2 & 10-

fsttyms1

jrdecat

So we got everything back together and the very last thing we did before we fired her up was to fill the radiator. Guess what....coolant everywhere running out from behind the lower timing belt cover. That's what we get for being in a hurry. We couldn't get the crank pulley off with the engine sitting on the floor of the garage so we figured that we would just leave all the old stuff (tb, tensioner, idler, h2o pump) until we got it installed and then use the starter method to get that pulley off and change everything out.

The good news is that the engine runs. Just to see if it ran we fired her up with a dry radiator. We only let it run for 3 seconds at the most, but it sounded great! No smoke, no fires, no knocking.

So tomorrow my uncle will be taking the tensioner to his shop and compressing it with a vise so that we can put it in the car tomorrow evening. While he's at work I will be cracking that pulley off to get at the lower tb cover and pouring distilled water in the radiator to determine where the leak is coming from. Hopefully it will be coming from behind the water pump pulley and not from the head gasket area.

Anyone out there have any suggestions about where the leak could be coming from? I know that sounds like a bit of a silly question since you can't see the car or where it is leaking from, but hell I can't even see where it is leaking from. I can only see that it is dripping from the lower tb cover. I just didn't know if there is a common failure point that I don't know about.

Thanks for all of your input thus far. It has been very helpful and greatly appreciated!

01tl4tl

should be a port on the bottem of water pump - lets fluid out if WP shaft seal goes bad
Use mechanics mirror to check-
If it sat for a while the seals dry up and would leak on startup

But it would be easier to tell more if you could move the modem closer to the car please~

jrdecat

Ok, I have set up my computer on the engine of my car...can you tell any more now?

phee

iTrader: (5)

get an oem water pump man. last engine failed because of an aftermarket one. why not replace the one on your engine now?

jrdecat

Yep, that's the plan. The shop that had the car first had put a new tb, water pump, and tensioners on and I am going to rob those for the new engine. The new pump that is on the old engine looks to be oem with the plastic pulley instead of the metal aftermarket like I had...should there be a logo anywhere on it?

The jury is still out on whether the water pump caused the tensioner and idler pulleys to go out or if the pulleys caused the water pump to go out. Either way, it cost me a pretty penny and I'm not taking any chances this time.

JR

totaledTL

Plastic pulley- on the water pump?

01tl4tl

most likely a tensioner bearing failed- causing the belt to slip and burn, HEAT is generated in the engien from water pump not turnign normal speed
putting excess force on the wp seal,,,

I cant belive shops and Acura dont make those mandatory replacement--they know its not going to last another 100k on those bearings

Everyone is now warned of the results--replace everything on the 105, do it early if you are in severe service realm,,yes there is margin built in
Based on reports- those bearings last 20K~ past whenever you do the timing belt
removing belt tension then applying new belt may have some effect on the unit (guess)
Not replacing them is like replacing the timing belt and not the water pump while you are right there!

01tl4tl

jrd- based on the new information from your laptop sitting on the motor:

I suggest you check the camfibrillator and carbshaft bushings carefully
This requires 2 beers
It may also need the center muffler bearing, which was easier to replace with the engine out- sorry I didnt mention it before

jrdecat

01 - I took your advice and did the checks that you recommended. All of the bearings looked good. While I had access, I also checked the flux capacitor and it was running on a full 1.21 gigawatts. Being in such a hurry I also forgot to top off the blinker fluid yesterday - my bad, it's all full now.

In all seriousness now I've run in to a problem...when trying to line up the tdc marks on the cams and crank, i can't get them to align by turning crank (this is on the installed new engine). How bad is this? Does this indicate that the engine had been running out of time? If so, that would make me think that this on would have damaged valves. Should I mark and xfer to new belt, or should I just go through the steps in the Acura manual for installing a new one with all TDC marks aligned?

01tl4tl

put everything to TDC -follow book exactly, its the only way top get all the parts working at the correct time
and pray this motor is ok

01tl4tl

they dont run long if the belt has skipped a tooth during failure
Noisy and runs like crud,,,would bend valves on first rotation of the crankshaft after belt or pulley failure--if an intake is open - an one is for sure at all times,,,bang smash bend destroy

jrdecat

Got er all lined up. Much easier with that stupid accessory pulley and lower timing cover off. Old water pump was cracked...new one installed. All is well. Just slap a few things back on tomorrow morning, fill er up with coolant, and drive away!

JR

jrdecat

So it's official. I'm screwed. Everything back together, runs great except for that coolant leak. I was really hoping that it was just overflow coming out one of those little vents on the water pump, but obviously not. There's coolant leaking from around the water pump area and also dripping from around the little access panel to the transmission / drive wheel. I can't see where exactly the coolant is coming from, but from where it is ending up makes me think that i either need to look for a cracked block somewhere or hope that it's a head gasket....this really sucks!!!

fsttyms1

Keep the covers off and look with it running. Did you get a new water pump or reuse the one off the other engine? Did you make sure you had all the seals in place (like where it connects to the cross over tube?)

Edward'TLS

Can you return the engine if the block is cracked ?

01tl4tl

I had concerns about overheating when you said coolant was running out~

The weep hole on the water pump is not an overflow- its only to let fluid out and cause a warning to you of its rubber internal seal failure

jrdecat

Well I got word from the shop today that my problem is a rear head gasket. I guess that's good because I don't have to remove my entire engine to fix that, right? Has anyone done this replacement before? Any words of advice or tips and tricks?

The service manual says not to reuse the little metal gaskets underneath the intake manifold. I had taken the manifold apart and cleaned it up pretty good before we installed the engine and i just reused the old ones. Is that against the rules? I figure that since I'm going to be tearing the top out and replacing gaskets I might as well do it right and keep this thing running another 20k miles like after my last service.

Oh yah, a "while you're at it" list would be helpful. You know, "while you're at it" why don't you change the DFO chip...

jrdecat

Yes, but it's not...I don't think...I hope...

Used the new one that was installed in the old engine that was only started once to determine that the valves were bad.

jrdecat

And one more question...

Any recommendations on where to buy the gaskets from? Is it fine to get them from NAPA or the like? Or should I go to Acura shop and get OEM?

JR