newperson

iTrader: (2)

Thanks, I'll check that out. Hopefully don't have to replace them...they're expensive!

newperson

iTrader: (2)

It's cold as heck out here so I'll have to wait for stuff to cool down before I can mess with troubleshooting....almost got frostbitten while filling up on gas.

totaledTL

Darn cold here too- 8 degrees this AM.

newperson

iTrader: (2)

I have a feeling my engine mounts may be a possible culprit. I do remember violent shaking of the engine after I applied seafoam & shut the car off....and the vacuum line used ultimately goes to the engine mount control solenoid valve. Engine shaking and the mounts with no vacuum: seems logical that the mounts may go bad in that scenario.

PS: My front engine mount was replaced when I got the new transmission (3 months ago).

newperson

iTrader: (2)

I think I'm just gonna need a whole new box. I've been going at it for 5 hours now trying to get this screw out; tried the Dremel + flathead but the metal just bends...tried drilling from the top, bottom, etc...don't know what else to do or I'm just doing something wrong.

Is there any other ideas you guys have on getting this damn thing out?

I dropped a drill bit in the air box and it fell lower into the depths but didn't come out on the floor. Is it safe to start the engine? I just don't want it to shoot up & cut through the air filter and then get sucked in the TB.

totaledTL

#7 here? --> http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no
If so it's only about $43, not worth spending any more time on. Maybe when you remove the old one you'll find the bit.

newperson

iTrader: (2)

Yeah...it just sucks that some small little screw is gonna cost me almost 50 bucks. I'm still open to other options though.

As for the drill bit I dropped, I'm holding the air box in my hand right now...it fell down lower...I'm thinking it's the intake resonator is what it fell into. Found a DIY on removing the intake resonator so gonna give that try though my car might be louder now.

newperson

iTrader: (2)

Just some status updates:

I got rid of my intake resonator...and that drill bit still won't come out the resonator even with violent shaking; it's like it's in a maze.

Had the battery off so now the PCM's doing it's relearn procedure. I gave in & ordered a new air box also.

Right now I'm at the point where I don't even have a defined measure that I'm regarding as "good" or "bad" performance...just all based on previous experience; as an engineer, this makes it very hard to fix something because all I'm doing now is just replacing things that look wrong which may not even be related to the problem (which is a good thing in a way).

I also think I need to redo the EGR cleansing...'cause when I did it, I only did it to the EGR port on the IM...and not the actual EGR valve.

My hope is that the problem will be discovered & posted in this thread but also with me documenting the steps taken along the way to help future solution-seekers. I just wish we are able to edit posts (that way I can edit my first post in the thread with the solution).

newperson

iTrader: (2)

There's also something with my exhaust that may or may not be normal:

When I turn the car off, the left muffler smokes for a while but the right one doesn't (if looking at the back of the car). I think the smoke is gone after about 15 seconds max. I've only noticed it recently, most likely because of the colder weather. Can anyone explain why one muffler smokes after the car is turned off but the other one doesn't? Is this normal?

newperson

iTrader: (2)

Just got my "new" air box...only problem is it's broke. The plastic part that connects the box to the car (with the "upper" screw in it) is detached. I guess I have to glue it back together. Technically it's a used box and I was told one of the tabs had been repaired with plastic weld...well I guess the weld didn't hold.

What should I use to glue it back together so that it'll stay since plastic weld didn't work?



Always somethin.......

01tl4tl

jbweld putty for plastic should fix that- make a then bead of it and press on the outside as if you were welding

why dont you PM ill'tl- hes in your town and knows the TL pretty well

01tl4tl

the mega mods can fix the original post or change title when you find the solution

whats the engine vacuum at idle and just up from idle?

newperson

iTrader: (2)

Vacuum readings:

1) Idle (steady 21inHg, no fluctuations)
2) Begin open throttle (drops to 18inHg)
3) Steady open throttle (settles to 24inHg, stable)
4) Begin release throttle (jumps to 25inHg)
5) Back to idle (steady 21inHg)

newperson

iTrader: (2)

New air box, K&N high flow filter, same problem. I know this box doesn't leak because even the K&N filter gives it a damn good seal. Funny thing is I doubt I have a vacuum leak problem based on the readings I took above, but hey at least I fixed up something. PM me if anyone wants an air box with one screw stuck in the hole, for cheap.

I can hear the hissing sound all over the box now. I think that's 'cause I removed the intake resonator & the filter is now the point of entry for the vacuum.

newperson

iTrader: (2)

O2 sensors finally came in but haven't installed them. I had my car at a shop getting the ball joints replaced and asked how much they'd charge (if they even would) to install the sensors. If it was under 15 bucks I'd let them do it since I was already giving 'em $250. But he said $160...for each sensor. Sometimes I wonder....unplug, unscrew, screw-on, plugin. I just thought I'd ask them since the car would already be on a lift while I would have to use a jack if I did it. This shop even does a free tire rotation if you ask for it when getting an oil change...and that seems like more work than O2 sensor installation with having to carry tires & all.

So once I get those in there, I'll do a PCM reset, and we'll see how it goes.

newperson

iTrader: (2)

I'm also getting to the point that I'm almost forgetting how the performance was prior to me raising all these issues. And if the problem is solved, would I even notice it? Without anything to directly measure (I'm a numbers guy), just seems like a winding road.

If, in the "end", I feel that the problem has not been resolved, I won't say that all this has been for naught; I've learned a lot throughout the whole process, and that takes me a lot further with future problems (in terms of self-diagnosis & repair).

PS: I have gone to the dealer & other shops, and while they have recommended some service (of which I've detailed in other posts), nothing has directly alleviated me of the issues I've faced herein.

The biggest improvement I've noticed during this ordeal was when I replaced the spark plugs. But shortly after, it was sluggish again.

ooVTECoo

Hey guys I'm fairly new to the forum. I have a 2000 TL with 78k.I am having a very similar problem that I have recently noticed. My RPM has been dropping to 1000 as SOON as i let go of the accelerator, and it does feel a bit sluggish ( compared to normal ) when I place my foot back on the accelerator, it feels like it takes a second or two to respond. Very similar to what you see on the video that the thread starter posted. I could be doing 40 n see the RPM @ 1000. Could this be a sign that the tranny is going? I'm very concerned being that this is my real first car.

newperson

iTrader: (2)

Lol, it's not me bumping my thread this time.

ooVTECoo, welcome to the forum, and I know how you feel; this is my 'real' first car too and the biggest one-time purchase I've ever made in my life. If it didn't drive like that when you first acquired it, your mind tells you something is wrong, right? That's how I feel. I've kept up with maintenance, and shops tell me they can't find anything significantly wrong that could explain the behavior, so what do you do? Do you just live with it and hope it goes away? Or do you just simply live with it without hoping? These are the questions I'm facing. I'd be interested in the responses you get by having your problem checked out.

One theory I have is that the new transmission and/or torque converter is "stiffer" than the replaced one, causing more friction between engine & transmission which ultimately leads to the engine having to work harder. Don't know if it's a valid theory though.

The only thing I have left to do is replace my O2 sensors but my jack isn't high enough. I think I need to grab some ramps. I still have never went back to the dealer that replaced my transmission [because of the far distance], but I might do that soon, just to verify correct operation.

silver2003tl

iTrader: (1)

I played your video and noticed 2 bounce-like things. immediately after your released the gas at aprox 2.3k it seemed to bounce (or was it more of a hesitation, or even a trans wanna shift), and when near 1k it bounced also. In addition there was a weird thump, was that the engine/trans or a speed bump?

I agree something not quite right. I will have to study what my car does this evening. i would guess it should up shift as soon as the ECU sees the TPS/accelorator go back to idle (at 3k), and if it didn't shift it would decelerate sluggishly - which i'm guessing your seeing. May not be a "engine" problem after all. The new tranny might have a problem w/ 1st gear not up shifting, but other gears might be okay.

Using your elm is your TPS smooth with any glitches? Doubt that's it but worth a check.

Will let you know shortly what my trans does under similar conditions soon.

newperson

iTrader: (2)

That weird thump I think it was something on the street like a manhole cover.

I appreciate comparing your experience to mine. But you're right, super-sluggish deceleration as in a smooth coast is almost impossible...and then when it hits the bottom (1k rpm) rpms then bounce upwards and there's a sudden impulse of acceleration like some tension was just released. It happens in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears.

My TPS gives a solid 9.4% reading at idle...no fluctuations at all.

Think I'll just give in and schedule a visit this week to the dealer. I've been delaying 'cause they're far and get the feeling they'll say "oh that's normal" and then I've wasted time, gas, and maybe time from school. About to approach 120k miles...which would mean 8k miles on the new trans.

silver2003tl

iTrader: (1)

Hum. Okay took some video for you but unfortunately it's nearly identical to yours. Seemed your video was a quick acceleration so I think the tranny kept it in 1st gear all the way to 3k.

I think the 1st hesitation near 2k is the tranny shifting up to 2nd gear or maybe oven 3rd (from 1st) and the bounce you speak of starting at 900rpm bouncing to 1100rpm is normal. After the bounce I got back on the gas so as not to upset the guy behind me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxGciXstQGc

Whats your gas mileage? How cold is it for you? In summer I get 26mpg and winter about 20-21. Maybe something else like one of your wheels are dragging from say bad bearing or something w/ the tranny not letting the front wheels freewheel causing quicker than normal decelleration. Maybe a couple experiments:

1) Put car in neutral, engine off, brakes off, and raise the car and rotate each wheel to make sure there is no drag in any of the wheels.
2) Do your 3k acceleration and pop it into neutral and see if there is a difference - possibly tranny is dragging the wheels somehow.
3) Check your tires to see if there is any indication of uneven wear, possible accident prior, and car may not be tracking straight - maybe get an alignment if suspect.
4) check your mileage to get a quick hint if your within normal mpg.

newperson

iTrader: (2)

I guess since we got identical results, it might be normal. But I get the bounce even without doing a quick acceleration. Without doing a quick acceleration, the tach needle doesn't drop as fast, but ultimately when it gets to around that point, it "bounces" and the car shoots forward. That's why I always cover the brake when I notice my rpms are about to hit close to 1k rpm otherwise I'd hit the car in front of me due to the acceleration out of nowhere. I've noticed that the car stays in the same gear throughout the whole scenario, which leads to the torque converter being responsible.

Gas mileage...about 17mpg but I haven't done a good test in a while. Coldness, about 10-30ish Fahrenheit.

I do need an alignment; the car veers to the left, and is accentuated when braking or on an incline. I also suffer from bump steer majorly.

Your experiments:

If I shift to neutral, deceleration is how it's supposed to be...it slows due to friction, which proves that the trans is what's holding me back.

The most peculiar thing however is that when I replaced the spark plugs, I felt a lot of power come back but then less than week later it was back to the same stuff.

The biggest problem is that I hadn't even had the car long enough when these issues first started happening, so it's becoming harder and harder to recapture what 'normal' is.

fsttyms1

Man i swore i posted in here about that RPM bounce. Its completely normal with lift from the throttle. Even now that i have the Manual in the TL it does it

inyong1988

iTrader: (2)

my car does that rpm bouncing thing when it's cold as well

silver2003tl

iTrader: (1)

No clue on this one. Let us know if you find out.

You can safely compare with mine. I'm in Chicago and it's similar temps. I dont drive crazy - no jack rabbit starts and lift off gas to time the lights. 35% highway.

Boy. I'm guessing prior front end damage (if your lucky maybe just from potholes). Inspect the body panels edges for evidence of paint overspray/masking lines. Pop hood open and look at the bolts that hold the fender on. They should look prestine w/ no signs of being removed. For that matter look at all the bolts that hold the door and trunk on also. Make sure tires pressure same all around.

I guess another check is to use the sport shift and when u lift off the gas, manually up shift to the highest gear to see if the drag is any different.

If you really suspect the plugs you can inspect them and see if one of them has fouled. Maybe something wrong w/ a cylinder causing it to foul a plug. If they were really bad I'm sure you CEL would set w/ a misfire code.

When you had your oil change at jiffy, you sure they put 5w20?

Use good premium gas esp when trying to diagnose this stuff. New O2's might help your fuel economy.

side notes: yeah your engine sounds a little funny. if your paranoid you can do a compression check on the cylinders in case your prior owner abused the engine or didn't change oil.

newperson

iTrader: (2)

Yeah you did, but I'm just hard-headed. While it may be normal, I have the impression that the "effects" are not as bad to you guys since no one seems to complain about it. It's possible that when I bought the car, it did it too, but yet was unnoticeable. In short, if the car had driven how it does now when I was first thinking about buying it, I wouldn't have bought it; it's that significant.


I'm a conservative driver as well. I just filled up mid-week to a full tank so I should be able to calculate my mpg on my next full-tank fillup. Used to be about 90% city but now that school is back in session, it's about 75% city.


With regards to the alignment, I can't seem to remember if it was like that when first acquiring the car. I'm gonna go on a limb and say it probably wasn't, but if it was, it was not as pronounced. Don't know about front end damage; car had a clean carfax, one owner before me, and I purchased through the dealer. I just did some minor detailing on my car, which was my first time getting a closer look at all the nooks & crannies and didn't notice anything out the ordinary which would lead me to suspect prior damage.

I maintain the tire pressure at 32psi. No slow leak problems (like my previous car was doomed with on every wheel).

I'll try the up-shift to see if the drag changes.

I guess I should check the plugs again. If one of 'em's bad, I hope it's a front one. No CEL codes have been thrown at all since I had the car, excluding PO141 for the O2 sensor when the connector probably was yanked a bit. But no codes afterwards. Just had an emissions test last week, passed it.

I don't even know if Jiffy lube put in 5w20 . All I remember them asking me was if I wanted conventional or something else to which I responded conventional. When I did the change myself, I put in I think 5w-30 synthetic. A while back I was reading that you don't have to "clean out" the crankcase/oil pan when switching from conventional to synthetic; is it possible that I may need to?

Gas, I use 93 all the time. Shell.

In terms of the engine sounding funny, is it in rhythm, extra noise that shouldn't be there, the reaction when giving it some air, or just something hard to pinpoint?

Thanks again for the help.

silver2003tl

iTrader: (1)

no, the lunging forward is not normal. when does this lunge happen exactly? all the time or just at coming to a stop?

carfax is terrible w/ accident reporting. only when a body shop reports it to carfax do they ever know. from my experience most shops do not. the smaller shops i doubt would report to carfax. take my VIN for instance, was in 1 accident 2yrs back and repaired at gerber (decent sized chain - can someone look up 19UUA56663A005081). you have to look at the body panels carefully - particularly the ones visible only when you open the doors, hood, and trunk, this is where you'll find overspray and masking lines.

5w30 i think that's not recommended as it's too thick. you might get away with it in summer but since it's freezing temps out in chicago it makes a bigger difference. your mpg and extra noise may be attributed to this. no i don't think u need to drain when switching between dino to synthetic.

when i get a chance i'll post what my engine sounds like so u can have a listen.

newperson

iTrader: (2)

It happens upon the "bounce". So whether it's a gradual deceleration [i.e., no brakes, no gas] or with brakes it'll lunge forward. When it does the bounce it's as if some acceleration just came out of nowhere.

OK, I'll take a closer look at those areas.

Hmm...interesting. I could've sworn I read on here that 5w-30 was what should be used, but I just took a quick glance at the owner's manual; says to use 5w-20 and 5w-30 only as a backup. Guess I should switch it out. I did notice it seemed thicker (more cushioned) but thought that it was because it was synthetic. If the nice weather we've had today lasts through the weekend, I'll do the change. If I do, should I change the (K&N) filter as well?

Thanks; appreciate it.

01tl4tl

please look up the oil info threads- you have some bad info silver

gen3 calls for 5W20 so it got slightly better mileage in govt testing for CAFE standards- its not better for the engine and also why the book allows 5W30, as it does offer more cushion to the impacting metal parts

Oil is rated this way- the base viscosity- flowabilty measured at 200 degrees F, normal oil operating temp
So lets say 20
then special additives are put in that allow it to function as if it were a 5 viscosity- very thin easy flowing when cold
the W stands for WINTER and means the dosed oil, measured at 32F, will act as if its a 5

Gen2 is on 5W30 and no engine problems from ~thick~ oil

If you live where its realllly cold then 0W20 would be of more help when starting, it will flow immedialty to protect all the moving parts

01tl4tl

new: get some air in the tires dude! try 36 and watch the mileage go up

no you dont scrub the oil pan when going dino-synth or back- it doesnt matter- they all blend ok and its a small amount of residue

Question:
Back when you first foamed and the problems began- did you use the rear manifold vac port or the one at the TB to intake manifold area?
The rear one was mistakenly used in the DIY for several years- and it only cleaned 3 cylinders
now we do it correctly and get all 6 cylinders--just a thought

newperson

iTrader: (2)

36psi? I thought I was going overboard with 33psi since the manual recommends 32psi. Won't a higher psi seem rougher? My car seems rough already (going over bumps). Guess I'll give it a shot though.

As far as foaming, I've only ever used the port at the TB.

I'm gonna inspect my plugs (which so far are only about a little over 2 months old).

totaledTL

I've always used 32 psi too- won't overinflated tires just wear out more quickly in the center portion, and cause a rougher ride? Those who've tried, post pls.

newperson

iTrader: (2)

Did an MPG calculation...13.474 gallons into 256.9 miles yields 19.07 MPG.

I pumped the fronts up to 36psi and kept the backs at 32. Ride quality hasn't changed (still can't take small bumps easily) but the handling seems to have improved; seems cornering has improved. Car still veers left.

Interesting thing which I think I'm gonna attribute to adding air in the tires is that it seems when I hit the gas, the tach goes up but falls back down slightly and then is stable. Yay; another rpm bounce.

So I read this in another thread...the PCV Valve...if that's bad, what type of problems would I encounter? Should I just replace it just-because?

silver2003tl_temp

it's silver2003tl. i lost my password and comcast blocks email from acurazine!

anyhow i tried recording my engine so you can compare but my Treo phone's audio was terrible so it wasn't worth me uploading it.

pvc, usually rough idle.

Ron A

I reset the password for silver2003tl. Send me an email and I'll tell you what it is, unless you want me to post it here lol

acurazinerona at gmail dot com

newperson

iTrader: (2)

Thanks I still appreciate your attempt. My idle may be described as rough. Guess I should add to the 'list'
1 - replace pcv valve
2 - clean tb again
3 - clean throttle cable again
4 - inspect spark plugs
5 - install o2 sensors

Allen-

I wouldn't be surprised if your car had flood damage.

Everything on/around your engine is rusted.

newperson

iTrader: (2)

S8000164.jpg?t=1226930753

Interesting, never thought of that. I never thought it looked that bad. Even if it has suffered that, the thing is that when I bought it = me happy. Now = me not happy, but just living with it.

Allen-

This is what my engine bay looks like. Comparing to yours, it seems like yours has had some excess water hanging around.

And my engine bay wasn't really clean in that picture.

Another one...

silver2003tl

iTrader: (1)

Interesting observation Allen. If it were officially flood damaged it *should* have a salvage title stating so on the carfax. Does the interior have any strange odors? Maybe the hood was left open in the rain once upon a time.

Did you ever inspect those bolts to see if they were turned? The easy ones to tell are the painted ones that hold the fender on (exposed when hood is open - along the edges). The painted bolts would leave a small "dent" in the paint where the socket touches.

Not sure it's worth anything but here's the video I took for you. The audio got filtered by the phone but you can compare the rust if you like....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOSbRWjhgM4