newperson

iTrader: (2)

The reason I say sudden is because I had no problems before a certain event: seafoaming. As soon as I seafoamed, the car was great. But the next day is when all this stuff started happening.

Car: '02 TL, 115k miles, just got it in late August (of this year).

Rough idle, car shaking: if I'm just sitting in Park, on a non-consistent basis I feel the car shake every now & then (more than 1 shake a second however).

RPMS bouncing: if I accelerate (in auto), let's say up to 3k rpm and then totally take my foot off the pedal, the tach quickly drops down almost to 1k and then bounces back up to around 1.5k and remains stable. It used to be that if I let off the pedal, the tach gradually decreased to a suitable cruising rpm.

Humming noise: at idle, I hear a humming noise, which is really sounds like a sick person with a "throaty" hum.

Oscillation: When I disconnect that vaccum line, the engine starts to pulsate in terms of RPMs...e.g. oscillate. Prior to me doing the seafoam, when I would disconnect this line, oscillation never occurred.

And of course, I get an overall lack of power / responsitivity; e.g., sluggish.


Some notes & possible reasons:
- Air filter box screws are bad, and who knows when the last time the air filter was changed
- My cruise control cable is disconnected because when it is connected the accelerator pedal is like split into two regions. Maybe I should still connect it?
- Got a new transmission exactly a month after buying the car, around 112k miles.
- Spark plugs, don't know the last time they were changed either.

What I think I need to do:
- New screws for the air filter & replace the filter.
- Change the spark plugs
- Clean the throttle body
- Clean and/or adjust the accelerator cable

But what I need help with/my questions:
- For the air filter, what screws do I need? What kind of screws are those?
- Should you change spark plugs when it's cold?
- How do you take off the throttle body to clean it?
- What is the correct way to clean and adjust the accelerator cable?
- Is there anything else I should do?

You can probably guess that fixing cars ain't in me. So help a noob out? I have the Helm manual but that thing is too confusing. Thanks.

PS: Going to a shop is off limits if you think I'm too noobish to handle this stuff. All you gotta do is bear with me.

AcuraKidd

iTrader: (1)

I think im having the same problems as you are, except I have a cai...

also, my cruise control doesn't work at all, and i have no idea on how to fix it.

anyways, im going to be keeping a close eye on this to see your outcome and see if I could apply that to my situation.

Aznfury

first of all sea foaming aint that great, we dont do it here at honda, there are other alternatives...check and see if you have all the hoses connected and nothing left out, a simple hose that could be attatched to your intake might not be in, thus causing sporatic idling and loss of power due to poor vacuum...just recheck everything that you took out, trace your steps, and for the screws on the air filter box, i think it will be hard to find a replacement screw, usually we just change the whole air filter box assembly itself, the screws were meant to stay on the top portion on the air box....

Aznfury

oh and you can change the spark plugs when its cold or hot...i prefer warm to cold...and you dont have to take out the whole throttle body to clean it, all you have to do is disconnect the air intake hose where it is connected to the throttle body itself, once that is done, get some throttle body cleaner(honda has their own cleaner now) and spray a good 3 seconds all around the inside, then i would take an old toothbrush and scrub the inside, and open the butterfly and clean that too. you shouldnt have to clean the accell. cable.

totaledTL

Your post is why I don't plan to use that stuff (except in fuel tank). Engine runs great, silky smooth, no CEL.....
Look here for the screws: --> http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no

Personally I wouldn't replace the spark plugs unless the engine is cold. Just did mine, was easier than I expected.

newperson

iTrader: (2)

I'm not blaming seafoam at all. I just think I messed up somewhere. Either that or seafoam did a good cleaning but the dirty is still "in the system" clogging something up.

But how do you disconnect the intake air hose?

And I didn't see any screws in that diagram...only washers:

newperson

iTrader: (2)

Also, making sure these are the right spark plugs since I know you have to get Iridiums:

Bosch Iridium Fusion / Spark Plug

newperson

iTrader: (2)

And is 89 considered premium gas? I've never used anything higher than 87 'til I got the TL, then I figured I should use 89. But now I'm questioning if 89 is considered "premium" to the TL.

Aznfury

#13 is the screw you need...and to take off the intake hose from the throttle body, loosen #10 and pull the hose off the throttle body...and dont get those bosch plugs, prob the worse you can do, get NGK iridiums, or you can just go to your local acura or honda and get ngk iridiums there, if you go to honda, just let them know you have a TL and they will look up the right ones for you...and premium gas is not 89 nor 87, its 91 and up, but i think higher then 91 is SUPER...i use nothing but the highest at any gas station, preferably shell 91...vpower...

rp_guy

you should be running 91 actually. the compression on a type-s is 10.5:1 which is fairly high



to the OP: perhaps you split a vacuum line or fouled up the IACV. first thing i would do is check all vacuum lines and if you hear any hissing, replace it. the IACV is a little harder to get to but you should also clean that out thoroughly. cleaned up the idle a bit on the cars that i did it on.

3.2TLc

If you had no real issues before "seafoaming" , then you apparently disturbed something along the way. My advice would be to go over anything you may've loosened up during this process. Perhaps another vacuum line is loose ? My experience with seafoam was very positive. I'd recommend checking your egr passageways within the intake as they tend to clog up and cause erratic idle/stalling. But, by all means check all of the vacuum lines as they can cause alot of problems if not tight. As for plugs, use only the specific NGK's !

newperson

iTrader: (2)

The only thing I touched under the hood (mainly because this was the first time I had even taken off the engine cover) was taking off the vac line from this picture:


When I take it off, I hear a hiss [and then the engine rpms starts to oscillate]. Put it back on, no more hiss, no more oscillation. What other vacuum lines are there under the hood?

And here I was thinking I was Mr. Big man because I used 89. Guess I gotta go up again. Probably grab some injector cleaner and use 91 from here on out.

The plugs have to be NGK though? I thought that it just had to be Iridium-based. My autozone doesn't have any brand with the name NGK.

I'll see if I can get in the throttle body today but it's pretty cold outside. Hopefully I'll see a nasty sight. Try to grab my camera too to see if you guys spot anything abnormal.

rp_guy

i reread your first post.. and it doesn't seem like the RPM's are bouncing but here's a simple test, if you sportshift from a stop, so 1st -> 2nd -> 3rd, and then stay in third but then let off the pedal, what happens? does it gradually drop or does it drop to 1000 and back up ? and you can do this test with all 3 gears (that matter) and see what happens. normally the car should drop the revs if you're cruising to save gas..

NGK's are just a known and proven product; you are basically putting yourself out there by using another brand. you can get them very cheap on ebay if you need to.

newperson

iTrader: (2)

I guess I meant to say on quasi-hard acceleration (e.g., not too crazy) is when it bounces. If the instant right before I let off the pedal was about to be 3k rpms, as soon as I take my foot off, the tach needle quickly drops down to 1k rpms and then bounces up to 1.5k rpms and stays there.

If I'm cruising, let's say at 2k rpm, if I let my foot off, the tach doesn't bounce down, but there is a sudden "slowdown" (don't know how else to explain it)....and the tach drops down to 1.5k (with no bounce). Comparing to prior operation, when I let my foot off, I felt a smooth slowdown (as opposed to sudden) to 1.5k rpms. What this really seems like to me is that sustain a smooth slowdown, I have to do it with my foot by slowly letting off the accelerator, as compared with before when I could completely take my foot off and get a gradual deceleration.

I'll try your test out. Just sometimes hard to try out driving tests when you live in the middle of a big city.

newperson

iTrader: (2)

Oh and with some searching I found those spark plugs @ partsamerica.com.

$5 each and they have them at Murray's.

newperson

iTrader: (2)

Anything unusual?

S8000164.jpg?t=1226930753

S8000165.jpg?t=1226930797

Also, anyone know what this wire is?

S8000186.jpg?t=1226930856

More pictures here.

newperson

iTrader: (2)

Here's a video on how the car sounds.

http://s365.photobucket.com/albums/o...t=S8000172.flv

acutee

Maybe test the spark plug coil packs, just in case.

01tl4tl

that wire under the car is the park brake cable
The plugs NEED to be NGK Iridium (or platinum) but NGK !!!

partsamerica is kragen/shucks/checker auto parts and stock the plugs locally for just under 7 bucks each- you need 6

Its possible- depending on how you did the seafoam after drive, that the original plugs are in there and simply got fouled. We always talk about the 4000 rpm for 10 minutes and that you may want to replace the plugs if over 70k miles on them
Rare is the TL that is sold after the 105 service ($1200)-
more likely when the trans acts up and they think its out of warranty...

Supposed to get a full major service-tune up ,water pump -timing belt at 105, but many used cars didnt get that, and were sold to unknowing persons

New plugs, new air filter, redline SI-1 in the gas tank, or seafoam in tank 1 CAN TO 1/2 TANK OF GAS - maybe repeat seafoam including the TB throat-
Did you put the clamp back on the vac hose? Is the hose showing any split or damage?

Go to junkyard/auto dismantling and recycler (as listed in phone book) and buy a new top if the airbox lid is cracked
You may have a simple coil failure, but a CEL check engine light- would be on the dash.

start basic- remove a front spark plug and inspect. same with air filter
You will want to replace the cabin air filter too- its behind the glovebox- $12-17 for part.

fsttyms1

Push in the front breather tube. It doesnt look to be in all the way. Check to make sure the rear one is in all the way too.

newperson

iTrader: (2)

Well I'm almost done with my "105k" service...timing belt & pump & other belts are done ($700) and I already bought the 6 spark plugs ($40) and the air & cabin filter ($35)...just need to install them.

I was about to buy the spark plug tool too but I didn't know what size to get. I'll try to pull a front plug today to see what it looks like. Hopefully I don't mess anything up...

fsttyms1, is that the tube in the 2nd picture that's connected to the rubber intake on the right & almost by the oil filler on the left (and rusty)? I remember I thought it was sticking out when I took the picture & I tried to push it in further, but it didn't go in any further.

totaledTL

It helps to have a rather long plug socket (I have one that worked great) with the rubber insert to hold the plug for removal and to lower the new one down to the hole so you don't drop it. Take one of your new plugs with you to get the correct size. Also use anti-seize on the threads. Mine were galled & hard to turn on the way out, probably original plugs.

newperson

iTrader: (2)

totaledTL, an extension is needed even for the fronts?

I think I already know the answer to this question but I'll ask anyway: can I put half of the new spark plugs in the front & leave the old ones in the back....and then replace the back ones at a later date (a period of no less than 2 weeks)...or would that just mess up the new plugs?

newperson

iTrader: (2)

Does the car sound normal based on the video?

And the dirt around the engine, would that maybe be a sign of something?

Aznfury

change all the plugs at the same time...and i think i hear a vacuum leak.......

newperson

iTrader: (2)

Aznfury, where at?

And FYIs, both times I did the seafoam, the CEL came on both times but turned off after some double-digit miles.

illmat1k

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=newperson;10194753]Anything unusual?

S8000164.jpg?t=1226930753


yeah... your engine's dirty. haha

newperson

iTrader: (2)

What could that mean?

totaledTL

Yes, extension(s) are needed for all plugs.

Phrosttz0

you ever clean your egr, or iacv?

newperson

iTrader: (2)

The first and only thing I've ever done to the car (mechanic-wise, if you wanna call it that) is the seafoam process. I'll be honest & say I don't really know all the terminology you guys spit out but I'm trying to learn & fix at the same time.....I regretfully admit that I'm car stupid.

01tl4tl

you just not educated yet-
Thats odd to get cel after seafoam -especially twice

Did you follow the directions I have posted on seafoam regarding warm up- install- waiting time- and very specific burn off drive procedures? seems to work well for most people, I took the best of--and put them together

newperson

iTrader: (2)

The first time I did it was when I used the tube with the liquid form (not deep creep) and sucked up 3/4 can in in under 1 minute (of course with me throttling so it wouldn't die down). Shut off for 15 minutes. Started back up: CEL came on, smoke shower, and I was Sport-Shifting so I could travel around 3-4k rpms though I never got the ability to "speed". At this time the car did feel a lot better & ran smoother.

Second time was after I reread your directions and did it with Deep Creep. This time I got a little under half a can in in about 5 minutes [no smoke while doing it]. Shut off for 15 minutes, started back up and same story: CEL & smoke storm. This time I was able to get on the highway and do around 4k rpm on a consistent basis. May have gotten a better response but not significant.

I have the feeling that dried up seafoam is probably just cloggin the plugs and I need to hurry up & try to get to the plugs to see what they look like (once I find a spark plug socket). I even went so far as to reset the CPU [pulling fuse #13 / clock backup] but nothing's changed.

I wish I could've read the codes with my scanner when they came on, but they went away too soon.

totaledTL

I've read several posts stating CEL set after seafoaming-

newperson

iTrader: (2)

Alright so I got the spark plug socket/extension. While doing some research I came across this thread:

Close call and 6MTUA5 said "I pulled all 6 plugs and put the IM and TB back on then started it up to shoot out anything that was in there."

Do you guys think this would be beneficial for me after I take out the old plugs or just a waste of time?

Also, while researching the IACV, apparently there's just two screws you take off and that's it. My idle may not be extremely smooth but it appears to be around 700 or so RPMs, which sounds normal based on other threads I read. Taking off the intake manifold to get to the EGR port sounds scary (at least in my POV), or is it safe for me to try given my experience?

Thanks.

newperson

iTrader: (2)

Bump?

"I pulled all 6 plugs and put the IM and TB back on then started it up to shoot out anything that was in there."

Should I try this or not? I just need to know if there's something I need to worry about if I do it.

Does my throttle body look alright:

newperson

iTrader: (2)

So I think I found the problem. I think it is the air filter box and/or screws. Today I tried to replace the air filter but the one screw right by the intake just would not come off for nothing. So I took a break and decided to pull the #1 spark plug. It didn't look that bad at all minus the rust on the threads. So I then put everything back together, start the engine and I notice this hissing sound which is masqueraded by the sound of the engine. So I cup my hands together to try to localize the sound and the highest level I observed was at the filter box screw closest to the edge of the car and closest to the cabin. This screw was the one that is broke in half, e.g., just sitting in the hole.

So my next course of action is just to replace this screw. If I replace the screw and the hiss goes away, I am hoping to see a big difference in performance. But if after replacing the screw the hiss sound is still prevalent, I guess I'll look for a new box altogether.

Also, since I was unsuccessful in replacing my air filter, my question is this: is all I have to do is remove the 4 air filter screws and take the intake duct off of the throttle body to replace the filter? Or is there something else?

newperson

iTrader: (2)

Okay, I'll shutup now. The next time I post will be when I fix the problem.

totaledTL

Shouldn't have to remove the duct to replace the filter. You didn't replace the other 5 plugs?

gold2003tl (90)

after watching the video it sounds like ur values are knocking or sticking. its just sounds like somthing is wrong.

as for the hissing sound that would happen if there is a whole in the air box (resonator helps dampen that sound)

it just looks like the car needs to be cleaned up - i hope there is nothing wrong with the engine. but it just dont sound right to me. who ever had this car before you did not take care of it what a shame

but good luck fixing your problems i really dont have much to say but make sure you engine is getting clean air. and change the oil with a thinner oil.