Shudder and RPMs fluctuating while at stable speed (yet another tranny thread?)
10-22-2014, 01:24 AM
#1
Shudder and RPMs fluctuating while at stable speed (yet another tranny thread?)
First of all thanks to everyone for your help with everything so far, this site is awesome. Sorry to be posting yet another transmission thread but I couldn't find anything on my exact issue. I'm not even 100% sure it's the transmission, but it sure seems like it.
I've noticed this very slight issue for the last few weeks but it finally got much worse today to the point where I can actually observe the symptoms.
While driving, it feels as if the engine is cutting out or stuttering. The RPMs will fluctuate back and forth between say 1500 and 1750 rpm over and over. It does this in every gear, from 5th gear at a steady speed on the freeway down to at least 2nd going slowly up a hill.
Tonight I just did a train/fill of 3 quarts of fluid. The old fluid was quite dark. I've only replaced it once before at 120k, following the manual. My tranny has been replaced under warranty before I got the car, blue bolts and no oil jet kit.
When accelerating, everything feels fine. Every gear shifts smoothly. I have felt a slightly jerky shift into 3rd for a while, but after taking it out after the drain & fill even 3rd felt smooth. Only after driving at a steady speed does the problem start. It feels as if the torque converter lockup is engaging in and out, but that shouldn't happen at the low speeds I'm seeing this at as well.
Engine idle is fine, I can rev the engine in neutral to any RPM and it stays there steady. If it's engine related it's worse under a load, as in the lower gears the problem is worse as I go uphill.
There are no lights on the dash but there is a P1740 code I picked up with the scan tool.
Thanks in advance, hopefully someone can point me in the right direction!
I've noticed this very slight issue for the last few weeks but it finally got much worse today to the point where I can actually observe the symptoms.
While driving, it feels as if the engine is cutting out or stuttering. The RPMs will fluctuate back and forth between say 1500 and 1750 rpm over and over. It does this in every gear, from 5th gear at a steady speed on the freeway down to at least 2nd going slowly up a hill.
Tonight I just did a train/fill of 3 quarts of fluid. The old fluid was quite dark. I've only replaced it once before at 120k, following the manual. My tranny has been replaced under warranty before I got the car, blue bolts and no oil jet kit.
When accelerating, everything feels fine. Every gear shifts smoothly. I have felt a slightly jerky shift into 3rd for a while, but after taking it out after the drain & fill even 3rd felt smooth. Only after driving at a steady speed does the problem start. It feels as if the torque converter lockup is engaging in and out, but that shouldn't happen at the low speeds I'm seeing this at as well.
Engine idle is fine, I can rev the engine in neutral to any RPM and it stays there steady. If it's engine related it's worse under a load, as in the lower gears the problem is worse as I go uphill.
There are no lights on the dash but there is a P1740 code I picked up with the scan tool.
Thanks in advance, hopefully someone can point me in the right direction!
10-22-2014, 01:34 AM
#3
If it's slipping, wouldn't it be unusual to start doing that in every gear at the same time? Or is there some common cause that would do that?
10-22-2014, 03:55 AM
#4
Moderator
Nope as every gear has it's own clutch pack. The reason why our trans die is from lack of lubrication into the 2nd gear clutch pack thus the clutch slips and the trans can't engage 3rd gear.. If it's starting to slip it will only do so when on the throttle or going uphill, and only when shifting into second or third gear.
Basically when the trans it's on it's way out it will sporadically shift into second or slip it's way into third then work fine into fourth and fifth.
When the clutch pack has finally worn out enough the clutch will slip even second (the car won't shift out of first gear as the clutch pack material isn't enough to hold the gear).
Even then the famous P1740 code usually means one thing: Trans Ready to Die.
I have yet to see a real P1740 code pop up, as those Solenoids are usually lifetime components.
Your issues sound like a deffective TQ Clutch Solenoid but that solenoid will only engage at highway speeds or in top gear, The Clutch don't lock on the 3 first gears.
A Slip usually feels like when you depress the clutch in a manual but you still haven't moved your feet out of gas, the RPMs jump but the car loses forward momentum.
So my only guess it's the inevitable is about to happend and soon.
Basically when the trans it's on it's way out it will sporadically shift into second or slip it's way into third then work fine into fourth and fifth.
When the clutch pack has finally worn out enough the clutch will slip even second (the car won't shift out of first gear as the clutch pack material isn't enough to hold the gear).
Even then the famous P1740 code usually means one thing: Trans Ready to Die.
I have yet to see a real P1740 code pop up, as those Solenoids are usually lifetime components.
Your issues sound like a deffective TQ Clutch Solenoid but that solenoid will only engage at highway speeds or in top gear, The Clutch don't lock on the 3 first gears.
A Slip usually feels like when you depress the clutch in a manual but you still haven't moved your feet out of gas, the RPMs jump but the car loses forward momentum.
So my only guess it's the inevitable is about to happend and soon.
Last edited by Skirmich; 10-22-2014 at 04:05 AM.
10-22-2014, 07:17 AM
#5
P1740 = Problem with 4th clutch pressure switch.
Check the wiring connector and ground to this switch.
It may be worth trying a new switch before declaring the tranny as dead.
Unsure if the other problems are related to this P1740 code or the switch possibly being bad.
Check the wiring connector and ground to this switch.
It may be worth trying a new switch before declaring the tranny as dead.
Unsure if the other problems are related to this P1740 code or the switch possibly being bad.
Last edited by 3.2TLc; 10-22-2014 at 07:20 AM.
10-22-2014, 10:10 AM
#6
Also, when I drained the fluid, there was a lot of thick black sludge stuck to the drain bolt, and the fluid was black. Could something be plugged up inside from the sludge? Should I try replacing the filter? Or just drain & fill again and try driving it some more?
10-22-2014, 11:04 AM
#7
did you make sure the refill came out to exact measure?
between the dots on dipstick when ckd per owner book/fluid temp,
often a bit more than 3 qts will drain..up to 3.4 qts!
Total capacity is 7.3 qts
the TC is likely loaded with the crud from the black junk that passed as lubricant for 100,000 miles
lots of things can be clogged from sludge including the pressure switches/shift solenoids
Worth cleaning the 2 we can- external screw in part
If prepared for failure anyway- try some `motor purr` for trans or seafoam for trans
both will scrub passages and hopefully restore proper flow thru the filter screens in TC etc
On a good trans there is no reason for concern with these products
As a last ditch save-it effort- 10 bucks of cleaner and run it for 100-200 miles
change fluid and filter
It worked or it didn't!
tip: try SS mode for UPshifts and see if any change in trans behavior
between the dots on dipstick when ckd per owner book/fluid temp,
often a bit more than 3 qts will drain..up to 3.4 qts!
Total capacity is 7.3 qts
the TC is likely loaded with the crud from the black junk that passed as lubricant for 100,000 miles
lots of things can be clogged from sludge including the pressure switches/shift solenoids
Worth cleaning the 2 we can- external screw in part
If prepared for failure anyway- try some `motor purr` for trans or seafoam for trans
both will scrub passages and hopefully restore proper flow thru the filter screens in TC etc
On a good trans there is no reason for concern with these products
As a last ditch save-it effort- 10 bucks of cleaner and run it for 100-200 miles
change fluid and filter
It worked or it didn't!
tip: try SS mode for UPshifts and see if any change in trans behavior
Trending Topics
10-22-2014, 11:06 AM
#8
take a look at recent thread on rebuilding the trans, easy to see why sludge is bad news
10-22-2014, 11:08 AM
#9
I would probably change the filter and do two more drain and fills. I would also add a tube of lubegard red. I've had some similar shudder experiences, but never had real dark fluid. New DW-1 and the lubegard helped a lot
Here was my orig thread. Not sure you have the same exact symptoms...https://acurazine.com/forums/problem...-shake-886429/
Here was my orig thread. Not sure you have the same exact symptoms...https://acurazine.com/forums/problem...-shake-886429/
Last edited by MarcDavidoff; 10-22-2014 at 11:18 AM.
10-22-2014, 02:53 PM
#11
Tranny sludge and shutter......
Sounds like the clutch bands are wearing and starting to clog things such as the various solenoid switches and torque converter. The recent codes may be the result of the tranny fluid's dirty contaminated condition causing erratic operation. You can try things like the fluid D & F, filter, and cleaning solenoid screens......but don't expect miracles at this point.
Good luck....keep us updated !!!
10-22-2014, 03:22 PM
#12
10-22-2014, 03:31 PM
#13
Sounds like the clutch bands are wearing and starting to clog things such as the various solenoid switches and torque converter. The recent codes may be the result of the tranny fluid's dirty contaminated condition causing erratic operation. You can try things like the fluid D & F, filter, and cleaning solenoid screens......but don't expect miracles at this point.
Good luck....keep us updated !!!
10-22-2014, 05:58 PM
#14
Yeah, when doing the spin on ATF filter......the linear A/B solenoid pack is nearby.
When ya pull the top part off, be careful of the gasket. There's tubes underneath, the middle one's
bottom screen tends to clog. Clean the valves and apply power to see if each solenoid activates.
When ya pull the top part off, be careful of the gasket. There's tubes underneath, the middle one's
bottom screen tends to clog. Clean the valves and apply power to see if each solenoid activates.
The following users liked this post:
01tl4tl (10-22-2014)
10-22-2014, 09:06 PM
#15
did you ck the level PER OWNER BOOK? and it really needs to be in the middle of the 2 dots
get it hot and it rises- causes more problems
free owner book download at www.owners.acura.com
if anyone hasn't registered with acura care- do so asap and learn about the recalls
usa cars/residents call 1 800 382 2238 x5 gets a human, need cars VIN for both sites
get it hot and it rises- causes more problems
free owner book download at www.owners.acura.com
if anyone hasn't registered with acura care- do so asap and learn about the recalls
usa cars/residents call 1 800 382 2238 x5 gets a human, need cars VIN for both sites
10-23-2014, 12:01 AM
#16
Well, I checked the wiring harness and found that the speed sensor's connector was not actually fully seated. I clicked it back into place (it didn't go easily either, not sure how this could have come loose). P0715 went away after starting the car again. Did another D&F and things seem improved but still some symptoms.
If the level has to be between the two dots then it seems like it is high to me (and was before I did the first D&F).
If the level has to be between the two dots then it seems like it is high to me (and was before I did the first D&F).
10-23-2014, 07:30 AM
#17
Symptoms.....
I'm not even 100% sure it's the transmission, but it sure seems like it. I've noticed this very slight issue for the last few weeks but it finally got much worse today to the point where I can actually observe the symptoms.
While driving, it feels as if the engine is cutting out or stuttering. The RPMs will fluctuate back and forth between say 1500 and 1750 rpm over and over. It does this in every gear, from 5th gear at a steady speed on the freeway down to at least 2nd going slowly up a hill.
I have felt a slightly jerky shift into 3rd for a while, but after taking it out after the drain & fill even 3rd felt smooth. Only after driving at a steady speed does the problem start. It feels as if the torque converter lockup is engaging in and out, but that shouldn't happen at the low speeds I'm seeing this at as well.
When accelerating, everything feels fine. Every gear shifts smoothly.
Engine idle is fine, I can rev the engine in neutral to any RPM and it stays there steady. If it's engine related it's worse under a load, as in the lower gears the problem is worse as I go uphill.
While driving, it feels as if the engine is cutting out or stuttering. The RPMs will fluctuate back and forth between say 1500 and 1750 rpm over and over. It does this in every gear, from 5th gear at a steady speed on the freeway down to at least 2nd going slowly up a hill.
I have felt a slightly jerky shift into 3rd for a while, but after taking it out after the drain & fill even 3rd felt smooth. Only after driving at a steady speed does the problem start. It feels as if the torque converter lockup is engaging in and out, but that shouldn't happen at the low speeds I'm seeing this at as well.
When accelerating, everything feels fine. Every gear shifts smoothly.
Engine idle is fine, I can rev the engine in neutral to any RPM and it stays there steady. If it's engine related it's worse under a load, as in the lower gears the problem is worse as I go uphill.
Perhaps the "loose" connector for the tranny's speed control was causing some of the previous problems.Reset the PCM and see if anything has changed since tightening it. Have the EGR passageways, TB intake and IAC valve ever been cleaned ? When was the last tune-up with new plugs & air filter ? Load test the electrical system and check all the connectors......especially the grounds.
Last edited by 3.2TLc; 10-23-2014 at 07:33 AM.
10-23-2014, 10:24 AM
#18
Perhaps the "loose" connector for the tranny's speed control was causing some of the previous problems.Reset the PCM and see if anything has changed since tightening it. Have the EGR passageways, TB intake and IAC valve ever been cleaned ? When was the last tune-up with new plugs & air filter ? Load test the electrical system and check all the connectors......especially the grounds.
Drove it about 25 miles today and had occasional symptoms. It's hard to tell if the engine is cutting out or if the tranny is doing something. It's just weird jerkiness while at a steady speed, if I step on the accelerator everything smooths out.
10-23-2014, 11:45 AM
#19
don't make me beg!!!!! read the owner book spec for cking fluid level
some say cold and others have a 15 minute specific drive and inspect level
either way- its halfway between the dots is ideal
So what if someone added fluid before- `to top it off`- not knowing!!
for all you know they added the deadly dextron to it!!!
that's why the 3x3 is in the owner book- specifically for when someone added dex3 in any amount = flush the whole system out!
some say cold and others have a 15 minute specific drive and inspect level
either way- its halfway between the dots is ideal
So what if someone added fluid before- `to top it off`- not knowing!!
for all you know they added the deadly dextron to it!!!
that's why the 3x3 is in the owner book- specifically for when someone added dex3 in any amount = flush the whole system out!
10-23-2014, 11:53 AM
#20
75kmiles = its ready for new plugs,,pull one and inspect
I know the book says 100, and smart ziners found that over 60-70kmiles and its ready for some new NGK Iridium, iridium IX or Platinum, about 8 bucks each
Good to seafoam before plug change - get pistons clean for better combustion
don't forget the TB air inlet plate cleaning
How long have you had this car? that egr system cleaning of the intake manifold can make a big difference in running
I know the book says 100, and smart ziners found that over 60-70kmiles and its ready for some new NGK Iridium, iridium IX or Platinum, about 8 bucks each
Good to seafoam before plug change - get pistons clean for better combustion
don't forget the TB air inlet plate cleaning
How long have you had this car? that egr system cleaning of the intake manifold can make a big difference in running
The following users liked this post:
MarcDavidoff (10-23-2014)
10-23-2014, 01:54 PM
#22
don't make me beg!!!!! read the owner book spec for cking fluid level
some say cold and others have a 15 minute specific drive and inspect level
either way- its halfway between the dots is ideal
So what if someone added fluid before- `to top it off`- not knowing!!
for all you know they added the deadly dextron to it!!!
that's why the 3x3 is in the owner book- specifically for when someone added dex3 in any amount = flush the whole system out!
some say cold and others have a 15 minute specific drive and inspect level
either way- its halfway between the dots is ideal
So what if someone added fluid before- `to top it off`- not knowing!!
for all you know they added the deadly dextron to it!!!
that's why the 3x3 is in the owner book- specifically for when someone added dex3 in any amount = flush the whole system out!
10-23-2014, 01:56 PM
#23
75kmiles = its ready for new plugs,,pull one and inspect
I know the book says 100, and smart ziners found that over 60-70kmiles and its ready for some new NGK Iridium, iridium IX or Platinum, about 8 bucks each
Good to seafoam before plug change - get pistons clean for better combustion
don't forget the TB air inlet plate cleaning
How long have you had this car? that egr system cleaning of the intake manifold can make a big difference in running
I know the book says 100, and smart ziners found that over 60-70kmiles and its ready for some new NGK Iridium, iridium IX or Platinum, about 8 bucks each
Good to seafoam before plug change - get pistons clean for better combustion
don't forget the TB air inlet plate cleaning
How long have you had this car? that egr system cleaning of the intake manifold can make a big difference in running
10-23-2014, 04:44 PM
#24
It sounds to me like what the auto engineers call "fishbite", or "trailer-hitching".
Steady speed, low rpm, vague, intermittent misfire, usually ends up being spark plug(s). This is based on my observation.
Steady speed, low rpm, vague, intermittent misfire, usually ends up being spark plug(s). This is based on my observation.
10-23-2014, 04:54 PM
#25
Hmm, "fishbite" & "trailer-hitching" ???
Guess the engineer guys gotta have a little bit of fun too.
Guess the engineer guys gotta have a little bit of fun too.
10-24-2014, 01:32 PM
#27
When the problem occurs it almost feels like I'm hitting bumps in the road. If it was a misfire, wouldn't that throw a code?
10-24-2014, 05:05 PM
#30
As far as setting a code, or turning on a cel, if he's experiencing what I think he is, it would be far too intermittent to do either. Typically, a cel won't be triggered unless misfires exceed 2% or so. The biggest reason I think plugs would be the cause is the steady state, low rpm scenario. The part of his symptom that doesn't quite fit is the 250 rpm change. The little hiccups I've run into wouldn't cause that much of a drop. (Or at least I've never noticed.)
10-31-2014, 02:03 PM
#31
Fluctuating RPM's & shuddering......
11-03-2014, 10:43 PM
#32
This weekend I was able to drain & fill for a third time, replace the filter, replace the 4th pressure switch, and clean the solenoids. The solenoids and screens looked clean.
The transmission shifts smoother than ever now, but I still have the jerkiness once in a while like before.
Will try spark plugs/etc next.
The transmission shifts smoother than ever now, but I still have the jerkiness once in a while like before.
Will try spark plugs/etc next.
11-03-2014, 10:47 PM
#33
Mr.Helpful Diagram
Have you tried putting the shifter on D4 instead of D5 ?
I notice on mine it stops the shudder.
I notice on mine it stops the shudder.
11-07-2014, 07:17 AM
#34
P0715 code......
Well, I checked the wiring harness and found that the speed sensor's connector was not actually fully seated. I clicked it back into place (it didn't go easily either, not sure how this could have come loose). P0715 went away after starting the car again and things seem improved but still some symptoms.
May want to recheck the Mainshaft Speed Sensor's wiring connector and ground wires. Possibly the sensor or wiring to PCM could be causing the fluctuating RPMs ?
Any progress with replacing the plugs ?
11-07-2014, 11:47 AM
#35
Instructor
11-07-2014, 01:24 PM
#36
I'm not sure why setting it to D4 helps since I never get up to 5th gear in stop and go driving any ways but it works.. for now.
11-07-2014, 01:33 PM
#37
Instructor
I notice some strange jerking in the car when driving in stop and go traffic in D5 so I'm always in D4 for city driving and everything is nice and smooth, I only go into D5 for highway driving.
I'm not sure why setting it to D4 helps since I never get up to 5th gear in stop and go driving any ways but it works.. for now.
I'm not sure why setting it to D4 helps since I never get up to 5th gear in stop and go driving any ways but it works.. for now.
11-07-2014, 05:35 PM
#38
I tried this a couple times lately. The problem usually crops up while starting to go uphill at around 35-40 mph. If I shift to D4 the transmission downshifts (usually from 4th to 3rd) which alleviates the problem, but anything that gets the RPMs above ~ 2000 makes the problem go away anyway.
11-07-2014, 05:39 PM
#39
I was going to do the plugs this weekend, but things have changed due to a family emergency, so I'm not sure when I'll get to it. I'll keep you guys updated when I can.