PiFive

Hello guys I need some serious help with my 2G TL .

The problem : car while accelerating feels shaky same as idle. TCS lights goes on and then off. CE light stays on.


3 weeks ago I was on my car when suddenly felt like the power went away and started shaking. It felt like I was running on few cylinders. On my way to HONDA dealer the tranny started to slip. WHen I arrived the car smelled of gas. I left the car there for 4 days and they worked on changing spark plugs and cleaning the EGR port. When I arrived my friend at Honda gave me the car saying all is good they changed cables, spark plugs cleaned the EGR port and that the car should be like new.

The next day I went to work and on my way back to home both the TCS and check engine light turned on.. later on the TCS turned off and while arriving home the tranny started to slip. So I decided to take it to a tranny shop where they found some problems with the transmission, engine mounts, cv joints torque converter and a few other things. I dont think this is related to the engine problem but I am posting it as a matter of info.

They fixed the transmission slipping and all other problems I had it actually came out pretty good but still I needed to return to HONDA so they can fix that engine light and tcs light issue and the shakiness. I took it last week and was it giving the back to me in the afternoon. Seemed better but still not like it was before. To cut the story short the engine light and TCS light came on and again and car once again shaky while accelerating and in idle/. So before taking it back to HONDA>. what you guys think this problem is? or how can I fix it?

How I can fix it so it comes back to original state when it was smooth and the throttle was perfect ... why so hard to fix this issue.. being done at HONDA?


Any input highly appreciated.

binary_10essee

I've never encountered that problem, but have you had the CEL codes checked by a shop or an auto parts store?

PiFive

Yes. Ive got P1399 and P302 and P304 and P303

binary_10essee

p1399 - Typically EGR valve blockage
p0302 - Cylinder 2 misfire
p0303 - Cylinder 3 misfire
p0304 - Cylinder 4 misfire

^^ As long as what I just looked up is accurate.

Misfires, of course, aren't only caused by bad spark plugs. What about the coil pack for each plug? Were they all tested, and changed if necessary, along with replacing the plugs?

PiFive

They said yes but I am starting to believe they didnt do it. SO before going to HONDA I wanted to see how can I check this?

binary_10essee

Typically to check coil packs you can swap the coil on one of the misfire cylinders with a coil from a cylinder that isn't reading as misfiring. I'm not sure of the exact procedure. Take a look at this thread:

https://acurazine.com/forums/problem...eplace-745024/

I'm sure other members can chime in with more details on the procedure. By that thread, you buy one coil pack and replace one of the bad, one at a time, reset the CEL, check the codes, and you'll see if it fixes it.

Apparently these cars tend to show multiple misfires when only one cylinder is misfiring.

PiFive

How much the coil pack? by any chance you guys know?

binary_10essee

I believe they're around $30 where I live. You can ask your local parts store.

3.2TLc

.....

Any competent Honda mechanic should be able to properly diagnose and repair your car's misfiring condition.
Can you post more details of the "Honda" receipt bill of work performed and parts replaced ? They should stand behind their repairs and make things right, IMO. Take the car back, tell them that you are unsatisfied with the work and want the car fixed, ASAP.

01tl4tl

what year TL? a 99? horrible egr port clogging issue, even has a recall
HONDA is not ACURA, honda techs think a moving temp gauge is normal!!! not for us
Are the correct plugs for the TL in it?

broken motor mount front or rear leak vacuum and cause mystery miss
Bad torque convertor etc and it was ` fixed`???? how?- a fluid change- with what fluid==exact name - Honda dw-1 only!

multi misfire usually 1 bad coil and will cause shakiness and problems running
BUT do you have the - each spark plug gets its own coil- or the early 99 with 1 coil and cables running to spark plugs ( I don't know the years before my 01)

PiFive

The Honda receipt says EGR port cleaning, ralaced 3 spark plugs, Throtle body clean, Coils x3, Bypass sensor x2.

But the thing is that this was done on the "side" with my "boy inside" I am starting to believe this was not properly done.

He told me to take it again this week. I will check with other sources too but he is giving me warranty.

PiFive

I asked for what brand he used for the spark plugs he said NGK Platinum also for the transmission job I stressed that I give the car to them to do the job but they have to use original Honda transmission fluid as you advised me 2 years ago when I bought the car .. He said I only use Honda OEM for my jobs. I had no way to verify this to be honest.

The engine mounts were broken already I knew this but hadnt had the time to replace them. The CV joints were broken and leaking steering fluid.

The torque converter was replaced for a new one. The old one was burnt. At least that was what he told me and showed me. He placed a small radiator by the main radiator to handle the transmission cooling since he told me it was better. He also gave me 1 year warranty on the job. Again the transmission job was done on a separate shop not the HONDA. Acura advised me to take the car to that shop.

I will give one more last chance to my "friend" at honda to fix it. If he doesnt then Ill buy a coil pack and 6 spark plugs and change them myself.

I just want my engine to be like before not with the jerkiness.

3.2TLc

While I don't know the experience level of your "inside guy friends"......I'd let it up to them to resolve the problem first, especially if they got some good money from the work performed.

They owe ya some satisfaction, IMO. even on the side !!!

01tl4tl

what a (you pick the description) of a buddy!
multi coil codes so replaced 3 coils and 3 spark plugs- Doh!
First off replace the other 3 plugs ASAP! those are correct= ngk irids about 8 bucks each

CV joints-along with own failure can cause axle seal leaking- that's TRANS fluid,, not steering!
low atf fluid will burn up a TC, takes about 4 hours to pull the trans -replace TC and reinstall trans, part is about 100$ retail, does that sound like what your paperwork claims?
Add-on atf cooler- when bad TC found, is a good thing to install

Driving with known broken front motor mount leads to broken right side mount followed by rear mount in extreme neglect cases
front and rear mount failures mess with engine due to the vac leaks they cause!

whats a bypass sensor- 2 of them?

Ask did he remove the intake manifold and clean the entire length of the egr passage inside of manifold,- not just poke the single port clean? lubed the egr valve itself?

PiFive

Above

PiFive

Replaced all coils. Seems all the coils were never replaced.. not even 3 that "the hondaguy" said. In addition all spark plugs seems to be old .. again got lied and never got new spark plugs. CE light on and TCS still with the new coils so now I have to go to the dealer and demand an explanation or to get those spark plugs that I paid so I can put them myself. Lets hope with that the problem goes away. If that doesnt cut it.. I guess ill go to the Acura dealer directly.

Any more suggestions on this mess?

3.2TLc

If your friend doesn't fess up to make things right, then what choice do ya have
with the dealership.....except to pay a second time ???

If ya want things done right the first time, it's always best to just do it yourself.

PiFive

My friend is no longer a friend since I was calling all day and got not reply. So I will buy all the spark plugs and torque wrench and do it myself.

binary_10essee

Why a torque wrench? Is it for the spark plugs? I changed mine recently and didn't need one. Just hand tighten, then "bump" the ratchet a quarter turn or so.

PiFive

Replaced spark plugs and coil pack. Car worked fine until I started to push it.. Then again the CE light and TCS turned on and started unning like if I was on 4 or 5 cylinders... At this point don't know what to do..

A trip to the Acura dealer?

Any advice let me know.

3.2TLc

How did the old plugs look ? Were they all similar in appearance ?
Perhaps a weak cylinder, have the compression checked. Maybe a leaky fuel injector ?

PiFive

Most of the spark plugs looked good but one.

Should I drive my car like that?


Will try Acura dealer later this week.

3.2TLc

Have the codes checked. In the meantime, avoid "pushing" the car.

PiFive

I checked the codes are the same. Just dropped the car once again at HONDA> they seem to be clueless about this

01tl4tl

as they are not TL specialist and there are differences= give us the codes -- or take it to acura

did you replace the coils yet? on the one bad looking plug - describe color- oily dry dark?
it probably had the bad coil
Are you resetting the ecu via CLOCK fuse removal and reinsert method?

did you install new plugs? correct NGK? 8 bucks each?

3.2TLc

Can't get no s.a.t.i.s.f.a.c.t.i.o.n.......!!!

If ya can't resolve the problem yourself, and nobody wants to fess up to shoddy work......then what's the next logical thing to do ? Maybe ACURA.
Are the codes still the same....and do they come right back after any attempted fix when cleared ???

PiFive

They just called me to pick up the car and saying that the reason was bad gas ... . second time I heard this and I cannot believe this.

I replaced the coils and the spark plugs. All coils new and all 6 Iridium IX for the Acura 99 TL.

Color of the coil look brownish.

I reset the ECU via fuse panel.

The guy fixing the car saying that It was bad gas full of ethanol. He drained half a tank and ordered a quarter from Shell and test the car. My take that is BS. anyone can confirm?

3.2TLc

Was the gas stale or a poor quality ? When & where was your last "premium" fill-up ?

Does the car run better now.....with no codes.....and no bill for you to pay ???

" B.S. "

PiFive

Been putting my gas 91 ofc in Shell and BP stations.

I fill up like 2 weeks ago.

I have yet to pick it up. But always I pick up drives good then once I start pushing the car boom.. TCS and CE light on.

I will update as soon as Ill pick it up.

01tl4tl

unless they found water in the fuel, no reason to claim bad gas except they are stumped for an answer

Replaced every part they can think of,,the dealer tech way of doing things is replace everything! then figure out whats really wrong~

seafoam 1 can to half a tank -do that twice to clean entire system and will pick up any water or crud and pass it thru thru the system

define: Pushing the car- boom = Rpm and gear, time of hard use- minutes or just seconds at redline or what rpm, in a lower gear?

have you Ck the cat already for flow rate, excess heat, rattling sound when pounded on from below, when problem starts- is there a rotten egg smell?
same for rear mufflers- flow and anything clogging or rattling from being broken

Please give us the exact codes- guessing you have a scan tool (without me reading entire thread to find out info already posted)

trying to think our of the box- did they redo properly the egr cleaning? or did pics show they did it right = with removal of intake manifold and full passage cleaning?
Many guys will try to shortcut and shove crud around but that shite wont work on the TL

01tl4tl

bad gas full of ethanol- well yeah, in America the govt standard now- for a few years- was switched from MTBE added (very bad for Mother Earth) to the ~mostly bad for consumers~ and the food supply- by using corn to make Ethanol-
adding 10% ethanol to car gas (and they want to add more- already have new cars that accept 15% and its avail at some stations unbelievable

you are using the good Tier 1 brand gas with their increased amount of cleaners built in (up to twice min amount required by govt)- but ethanol leaves behind even more crud than years back--when the car was designed

Use of tier1 helps a lot, AND twice yearly seafoam or bg or certain others- when used at max allowed dosage (read some brands carefully -example: treats 8 to 25 gal---go for the 8 gal ratio)

01tl4tl

note the ethanol does not sit in the tank all by itself separated from the gasoline
So how its full of ethanol
did they find a brand that's still on mtbe?

PiFive

Just arrived from picking up the car.

Codes are P0300, P1399, P0302, P0303 and 04 or 05. Not sure

Car is still shaky . a bit better but same thing. TCS and CE light on. He told me I had bad gas and he showed me a container with a greenish liquid he said gas with too much ethanol. He told me that is sitting on the system. He told me to go to good gas stations. Ive been going to the same 2 gas stations since I bought the car never felt anything like it k always using 91 premium. I asked if there was a valve timing issue. He said no. I asked about compression issue he said no.

Pretty much he told me to buy additives and clean the gas system. I pretty much know that all the issues started 1 month ago when I used octane booster. I have used Seafoam before but not octane booster on this car. So pretty much I have to go and refuel and drive hard so all bad gas burns out form the fuel system.

HE showed me some pictures of the job done on the EGR port cleaning and they took the whole head gasket off that I can remember.

At this point I will continue driving the car like that and get 91 fuel as always.. Gonna try another gas station and if in 2 fill ups problem doesnt go away.. Ill go to the Acura dealer.

I feel worthless. I built computers for living.. I wish I could do the same with my car. I even have the Acura Service Manual.

3.2TLc

Try some "Seafoam" or any quality brand of fuel system cleaner now. Plus some super 93.
If that doesn't help within the next few days, take all your repair paperwork back and tell them that ya want the car fixed properly or that they return the money which ya spent on repairs up to this point.

This is shoddy "B.S." business IMO. Ya deserve better for your money spent.

PiFive

With almost half a tank I got some seafoam and put on the gas. Still same no changes at all after some big accelerations. Neither white smoke came out of the exhaust.

Something is not right.

01tl4tl

ok number 1 is there will NOT be smoke from putting a can of seafoam in the GAS

that's only when you use the vac port method for instant blast cleaning of pistons and intake valves- but that way misses the fuel system- that's why we use gas tank method 2 times and it does everything!!

seafoam: use at 2 ounces per gallon of gas in tank, drive however you want BUT seafoam works it best on drives over 30 minutes- heat and time are its friends
Do not expect instant results- a few weeks to a month for total cleaning

If you had water I would suggest a different product made just for that

did he say the sample shown was just taken from your fuel line right then? or siphoned out of fuel tank right then?
Was any explanation offered as to how it could happen?

fsttyms1

Try to drive the tank empty or drain it as much as you can. Then fill it up with a new tank of premium. Other things to check for misfires are, fuel injector/s clogged, low compression

3.2TLc

What brand of "Octane booster" did ya use......and how much was put in the gas tank ?
Maybe that's the greenish liquid the mechanic showed ya.

If the car continues to run poorly, ya may have to drain the tank .....IDK ?
Perhaps the fuel pump or injectors got slimed by the green stuff.

PiFive

He showed me a sample of the gas he retrieved from the tank Was yellowish with green... He said that if he lights up that in the floor it stays burning. I just cant believe that at HONDA they gave me the car in that condition and no chance of being repaired.

He took the gas from the gas tank.

PiFive

He drained the hole tank and showed me the yellowish liquid. I used STP Octane booster 1 month ago.

The car runs terrible no power no nothing. I dont want to push too hard. If I di the CE light starts blinking.