friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

NP=no problem

butcher= someone that butchers cars cause they hack at it (aka: they do the job half ass, and just throw parts at it)

bruistopher

oh no! frustration, yes! but being a butcher no. the thing is when i cleaned the egr system. i thought i got a thorough cleaning aspect on it but obviously before i didn't do a good job. but you and 01tl4tl brought up good solutions and i went along with them and it seems to have fixed the problem

if not then im still going to go through and troubleshoot it again till its fixed. im not going to go to the dealer or shop unless i have to.

It might frustrate me that i can't find a solution but its making me a stronger tech because it makes my mind go through many of possibilities to fix the problem.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

so you do not become a butcher (better to learn on your car, then a paying customer's car that you could lose ($$$ from future srevices), they do not like having to bring back their car for the same problems)

bruistopher

^so then I am a butcher? I'm personally using my car as a tool to help me get to know engines better.

Its not about robbing customers. I wouldn't do that! That's why I'm working on my car to troubleshoot problems and scenarios on how it might be out there once I'm certified.

I know it will be tough out there. Trust me, Midas did a horrible job on my car with the brakes and they are still horrible when braking. And they replace them 2 times already. So I'm kinda fed up with them. I hope with the problem above is a example of a butcher because if so, I have a lot to learn!

Car engines are like surgery. When you go in for surgery you want thw problem fixed for the first time because your experience or patient experience is at stake!

Sent via BlackBerry

01tl4tl

you let mida work on your brakes? first problem there is they do exhaust
Next problem is franchises must make a certain amount on each car and each day, x amounts of upsell of repairs--maybe needed or not
Small owner operated shops are a better deal in general

As for butchering- no, you are learning- thats fine- some guys are brutal on everything they do
Same person torques the wheels to 130 because thats what the air gun will put out, will also use an air gun to remove and install spark plugs, or use in-line splice on critical wire instead of replacing it
You just didnt read all the 14 pages of fine print in the diy~

01tl4tl

I think we need a fresh DIY with the best pics and info for a 99, and for 00 on

webmastir

bruistopher

Again what I quoted in bold is a fact and I'm sticking to it. i am learning on what to do.

And what are you talking about when you say I didn't read all 14 pages of fine print in the diy?

I did just that but came up with numerous errors that some people didn't have like I did. And besides I'm not a super mechanic or someone that is well enough experience like you and fries.

I'm a rookie mechanic. Just starting out and on my 3rd year in this auto program at college. I'm getting there, I'm not going to be perfect. I will make a mistake. Me being a butcher now, that i am. You would be surprised at how many people come to me and ask for an oil change or tranny fluid change and I reject because I don't want to be called "butcher"

As far as midas is concerned. I was recommended by one of my friends from my job to go to them because he had got awesome brake pad and rotor replacement service from them with his civic. So since my schedule maintaining my own car was limited I went to them and look behold they do a horrible job and I'm still riding on their brake pads and rotors

I will replace them this spring. The brakes are good but not like I would want them to as far as brake performance wise.

on topic: regarding the egr and the check engine light. This is day two with the car after the cleaning and ecu reset and no check engine light has came on or any symptoms have come up. So the car is doing like its suppose to do but spark plug change is my next priority. Those are really old and haven't been replaced since the car was manufactured

but anywho, again thanks 01tl4tl and fries for the help. it was highly appreciated and your help does not go unnoticed

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

1.NO, as said you are just learning, and you will get screwups, it's part of the learning process, (preferrably keeping them on your car, cause you can just fix it yourself)
and i think 01tl4tl will agree with this, is that we have had plenty of screwups on cars especially when were just learning, and it was the first time we were doing something

2.and about robbing customer's; idk know when i mentioned that, it was about them having to come back again for the same problem (aka: a comeback), because it was not fixed right the first time; it pisses them off first off, and second you don't make any money having to do it twice

3.as far as butchers, MIDAS is a perfect example (also as noticed, cheap parts suck, and just don't work right, so better to just do it once with quality parts),
and as said you hate (aka: getting pissed) having to go back multiple times to try and get the brakes to actually feel right (and they still aren't right)

4.and perfect example of why you only want to have to do something once

bruistopher

Ha well as you can tell by my defensive post that sometimes I cannot take criticism well. But I can certainly understand because I really answered my own questions in the post you replied in

What I will try to do and what I am trying to do is accept criticism because I will encounter that plenty of times when I finally work at a shop, dealership or etc. The Midas example was a perfect to know what's it like as a consumer to have multiple problems on coming back because of the lack of "first time fix".

If it wasn't for you to say or for me to use my brain and think rocket science to dig deeper into the egr port and notice a flock of carbon build up in the sleeve, till this day I would still be diagnosing this problem.

Stuff like that is called thinking outside the box and then a solution can be made.

Side note: what do I use to get the coil packs off? It looks like I use a allen screw driver but I think I'm going to need a longer one in length to have more torque so I can undo the bolt.

Sent via BlackBerry

01tl4tl

yes its an allen wrench-6 or 8mm irrc-anyone?
one with a T handle works well- they are not very tight
I place coils one by one on the workbench on soft towel for extra safety

We are not trying to criticize you or anyone, some of us kid around with each other and others may take it the wrong way when sent in their direction..
if you are newer member take it as a compliment,,someday you may get an
then you have really been accepted as being allright and knowledgable on at least one subject
You are the new EGR prob specialist- congrats!

In my experience in life and here: always go back and recheck your last work on a car if strange problems occur- could be a new part failure or human failure,, but often its somewhere in there~
Many techs are quick to jump to a new (and expensive) problem based on codes- codes are clues not diagnosis

Somewhere in the DIY-iirc- is the actual Acura instructions to install that sleeve in the egr port, and I thought in azine directions it said to ram a wire coat hanger thru the port along with 3 cans of carb cleaner

Dealer used the solvent tank, and ran cleaner thru each intake port runner and egr port, then turn mouth side down and redo every port from the opposite direction
Certainly their intent is to get as much as possible, you wont get it all but thats ok since its just getting dirty again.

Per our megamod Kris- with over 300kmiles on his TL, says every 75kmiles is a good plan, and thats on the 6 egr port engines, a 99 would need even sooner

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

normally i would say a 10mm wrench for the coil packs, but ours are special with allen heads

for some reason an 8mm pops in my head (it is metric, i know that), but a normal right angle allen key should work just fine for you, they are not on that tight



for a dealer, you mean a stealership , and by the way you talk about being outside the box, i think you might be better at working at an independent shop

1.stealerships are alot of repetitiveness (they see alot of the same problem)
2.i know alot of them hate warrenty work, cause they barely get paid for it (part of the reason warrenty work will take a while for them to do) so customer pay work goes to the front of the line
3. alot of politics (it's a corporation afterall) at them, bottom man gets all the shit work (aka: warrenty work [especically the squek and rattle ones])
4. part of the politics, you will almost never actually talk to the customers there; it "has" to go through the service writer; so extremely hard to figure out some problems when you hear the complaint second hand (and through a computer [aka typed])


stuff like that is part of the reason i have never worked at a stealership

bruistopher

ha, i meant to say allen wrench not allen screw driver
but i agree fries, i think my strong point would be an independent shop. Funny thing is i want to be a certified mechanic on the side but i'm also going back for nursing so...

ha but i have allen wrenches in my tool set i bought but the wrenches are broken down into 1/4, 7/32, 3/16, 5/32 and etc.

Maybe I will have to buy the metric versions, but I applied 3/16 to the coil pack bolt and it snugged fit right in there but when i went to turn it didn't budge, so maybe i need a longer allen wrench for more torque. but at the time i wasn't trying

so i will work on the spark plug replacement either tomorrow or next week. but 01tl4tl maybe it wasn't criticism that's going on but i take it like that for some reason because i think that i'm doing something wrong and i don't want to be wrong. but oh well its all cool now, i know to take things on forums as compliments rather than attacks against me

i never knew techs at the stealerships get the end of the stick. I always thought they were making massive loads of money.

It's funny because i went to my local stealership when i went to replace my serpentine belts and you wouldn't believe how many times the parts dude asked me that they will replace my belts quick and would have me out the door quickly and i responded and said no, i got this

so all i need for the plugs is:

-6 ngk iridium ix spark plugs
-anti-seize for the plugs
-3"or 6" extension with 3/8 ratchet
-tubing to slide the plugs in place and to turn by hand

Is there any torque specs for the plugs?

bruistopher

actually found out it was 13 ft lbs for the spark plugs

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

get a metric set of allen keys, will thank yourself down the line (stripped out bolts anyone)(i don't geneally don't like putting standard things onto metric things, but some sizes do work quite well though)

but they can also come in handy down the line also, on other things too


and techs at dealerships make about the same money as all the other people out there too, most of that extra money they charge go to the stealership anyways


iirc for tools you will also need an metric allen key too, but also for those extensions i would get both, and also possibly a swivel too (for the #1 cylinder; passenger side, back bank; that one is the one that is kinda a pain to get to, but still not very hard
also about that tube, normally i just use the spark plug socket with an extension, easier for me
also a spark plug socket too (the magnetic ones work better then the rubber holder thing on some of them)




going back for nursing

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

normally i just do it by hand, but experence also helps with that one though

webmastir

you don't really need the tubing, imo either. i, like fries, just use the extension...

i also never used the 3" extension, just the 6 w/o any problems

bruistopher

i like the use of stealership. It fits them so well. I remember when my mom took the acura in because we had like air/heat blend motor module problem and the little arm wasn't moving to move the door for heat. Well acura stealership charged my mom for a thermostat replacement which was $160 and came back to her and said well that didn't solve the problem. so i was pissed and bought some grease of my own greased that little metal arm lever under the passenger side dash and boom the blend door motor was working like a charm.

Never again will i go to a stealership, only for the 105k i will

but yeah dude, i'm heading back for nursing after i get this certificate for automotive tech. i currently work at a hospital called Christiana Care Health Systems here in Delaware. Really nice, im a patient transporter, transporting patients from the ER to various test sites (xrays, ct scans, etc). I like it and the whole nursing field. But when i was in high school it was all automotive. weird transition i know

so i will head out and get a pair of allen wrenches in metric standards, fries but I noticed that the back bank #1 cylinder on the passenger side looks hard because of the bar and a hose iirc. but i will surely make it work.



I always thought torque specs was the correct way so you know there will not be any looseness going on.

well i searched and found 01tl4tl recommended to use tubing to slide down but i will get a 6" extension and a spark plug socket and anti-seize and i should be set.

time and patience is the key and I already know what to expect after the spark plug replacement.

-smooth idle
-better gas mileage
-more power out of that V6!

01tl4tl

I use vac tubing on the spark plug to lower it and start with fingertip feeling- no way to crossthread it- which does occur when using a socket and extension
Better safe,,,,

You will find a 3 and 6 extension work together very well for the rear plugs-
lower in the socket and 1 extension - then the other and ratchet
There is a bump in the firewall for your hand to fit
I would avoid universals as they allow possible crossthreading

T handle allen wrench set at harbor freight is invaluable- more twisting force when needed

Also since there was a major EGR carbon issue- go ahead and run seafoam in the intake vac port and drive a few days before plug change

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

for thread ing it with the extension, never had a problem with crossthreading, cause i run them down first (by hand spinning the extension; can't get a whole lot of force behind them) then use the ratchet to tighten them down


and yeah xlost that was the cylinder that i was talking about being a pity doing, and for the universial you really only need it on that to lossen and then tighten up the plug, every where else you don't need it

also try very hard to not touch the porcilian (sp?) on the new plugs ethier, you don't want to contaminate that area, and potentially letting the spark follow (tracking) a mark you had made

01tl4tl

I use the vac tubing on plug to start the threads-
then a real tool to tighten them
Its the initial thread that gets crossed and forced in, noobs may not feel it until halfway in and suddenly....

bruistopher

seafoam? i'm scared of it now because it might clogged something up again!!!

and since 1/4/10 which was this past monday, i have had no symptoms of the egr getting clogged. no check engine light. although i did however did get a p1456 code this morning but that was due to my gas cap not screwed on tight and i didn't hear it click 3 times. well i put the gas cap on and reset the ecu and nothing came back on.

emissions system is really sensitive. I'm learning that about cars regardless, like gosh darn!!

but all in all that coat hanger helped out a lot and solved my problem considerably!

I'm just waiting to do these spark plugs and it will most likely be next thursday or friday.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

:shakehead, i don't count how many times my clicks, i just make sure i hear it click multiple times (and you be surprised at the number how people who don't know that they are suppose to make sure the cap clicks)

bruistopher

^i know dude. I just pulled at my job and waited in the parking lot and the CEL came on and i was surprised because the first thing came to my mind was:
"OH SHOOT, THE EGR CODE!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
when i pulled out the code reader, look behold its the p1456 (gas leak). went to the gas door opened it and i noticed the cap wasn't fully on and i even smelled vapors pouring out

tighten the bad boy and reset ecu and its been off since

01tl4tl

it may take the car a few days of driving to realize it was just a gas cap-
Seafoam is safe- you had a really plugged system that needed manual cleaning--with a bit of force no less!

clean pistons and valves are a better home for new plugs
Clean injectors deliever the fuel better to those plugs

03c0upe

do i need to remove all those parts as in page 1 if i dont want to add spacers? all i want to do is clean my egr valve

fsttyms1

You have to remove the intake manifold to clean the egr ports correctly.

01tl4tl

as said above- yes- you must remove all the parts and covers in order to scrub-poke and rinse out the manifold to clean the egr ports

May as well install the spacers if you have to do the job

Its possible to do some egr port cleaning by running 1 can seafoam in oil and drive and drive several days-(install new filter first) with close monitoring of dipstick for crud buildup...see seafoam website for details,,it wont clear them but will help some-

the E being Exhaust...

03c0upe

ok thanks, so i dont need to take off the egr valve right?

bruistopher

no, but you can do it if you want. when i took mine off to clean it, the egr valve was fine. usually there is no crud in the egr valve itself. the egr port which is in the intake manifold is whats clogged up with a whole lot of carbon. Clean the egr port on the manifold off good! and when i mean clean it good, i mean get down and dirty with it!

wait...so i can leave the seafoam in the engine crankcase for several days before i do the oil change? i thought you said drive the car for 30 minutes and after do an immediate oil change!

for an update regarding my egr port cleaning: it has been perfectly fine these past few days. no engine code, no p0401. i have no pending codes. no codes at all. emissions is fine. i just need to replace spark plugs and do my front and rear brakes (rotors and brake pads).

also the engine for the p1456 (gas cap) hasn't came back on. so the ecu should be fine and i know now to tighten the gas cap when leaving the gas station.

I will run seafoam through the intake one more time before spark plug replacement

03c0upe

Is this the correct gasket. looks different?
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...PartType=C0026

bruistopher

no thats not the correct gasket. if you want the right gasket use this site http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...=1&catcgry1=TL

put your info in the selections and find the part you need.

also you do not need to replace the intake manifold gasket. it is made out of metal so its re-useable. now if you want to disconnect the throttle body from the intake manifold then you will need to purchase a new gasket because the throttle body gasket isn't made out of metal its a different material iirc...

but you don't have to take off the throttle body to clean the egr port!

webmastir

so i don't have to read this entire thread again, which I will when I do my EGR ports soon, you can only check to see if the EGR ports need cleaning by taking the entire manifold off, right? ..since it's on the 'bottom side' of the i.m. ?

03 TL

01tl4tl

xlost- if you want to run seafoam in oil up to 500 miles MAX- install a new filter and check dipstick daily watching for sludge- can stay in system up to 30 days!
this info from www.seafoamsales.com

a week will get it really reallly clean- thats the way I did it first time, new filter and 150 miles, filter was loaded with crud.
500 mile method is to restore a 30 year old chevy~

I say 30 minutes here so those who dont want to do a filter swap can safely get a good cleaning, better than just at idle in the driveway- you need some cleaner run thru the VTEC parts or sludge builds up there
1/2 can in the oil is perfect- per seafoam site

webmastir: you will need to remove the TB from the manifold to clean it properly
Acura wants you to use solvent tank (we use 3 cans carb cleaner) and shoot thru the intake runners and egr ports, then turn it mouth down to drain that out and respray from that direction thru egr ports and intake runners- the runners is where the air fuel mix comes thru to the engine- it gets crud in them and disrupts airflow-
Then rinse fully with clean water and dry FULLY before install
Water left in manifold is disaster!!!

With TB off (it connects at manifold mouth) remove IAC cover and clean that system too

01tl4tl

according to our megamod with over 300k miles on TL engine- anything over 75k miles is a good time to clean the egr ports, thats every 75k miles for him!

Good time for spark plugs too- will run like new

01tl4tl

read the first few pages of this diy for most of the real info~

webmastir

thx. wonder if there's a need for a newerish DIY w/ pics for around 03TL design, which have multiple egr ports

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

just add taking off the top plate on the manifold for an 03, you gotta anyways to even acces the bolts that hold on the manifold itself (and you will see where to clean on that top plate as soon as it is taken off)
biggest thing is when reassembaling everything, make absoultly F*** sure that the gasket for that top plate is on correctly, or it will cause some weird issues, cause basically it blocks the egr ports if not on correctly

mastini

iTrader: (6)

About new DIY, i've started doing mine and tacking some pictures.
Already removed manifold and cleaned it a little bit, but went out of cleaner and postponed it till saturday morning.

Let me know if i can help you somehow.

01tl4tl

did you miss the part about 3 cans of carb cleaner?