friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

so you a type-s then???


but basically all the bolts are in the same place (i think instead of 3 studs that there are only 2 studs instead, but same number of total number of fasteners under there) so just add removing the plate to the instuctions,
but also make sure that you put back on that cover's gasket correctly, people have put it on backwards, and the engine runs like crap afterwards, also there is a straight rubber seal under that you have to make sure is placed back right before puuting the plate back on, but it is absolutly no biggie, easily visible when the plate is removed

webmastir

just a regular TL. ok...thx

bruistopher

For you, you would use this link: https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...67&postcount=8 for the 00-03 models.

I'm doing this today, i just have to run to my local acura to get the throttle body gasket to plenum and im all set. im doing this with a friend of mine and this is my first ever project other than changing my serpentine belts last week

wish me luck

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

with that being in stock and not having to order it, acura dealers don't like to carry too many parts, so you have to order alot of things that you need, but GL with the install

01tl4tl

good point-
always buy gaskets in advance from dealer- they simply dont stock things like that for 10 year old cars--which is what we are driving

webmastir

weird he wants to go to the dealer to get that part? why the f' not just go to a local auto parts store?

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

sometimes the local parts store, don't even have a compareable part, let alone the same quality (a couple parts stores do have compareable parts, normally an OEM part that is reboxed)

01tl4tl

these specific gaskets are not common stock to parts stores

A complete intake set they can order but a single gasket of the right year...
for a few dollars its worth the dealer trip- say hi to the service manager while there,, in case you ever need them~

webmastir

interesting. good to know.. because i'm going to buy some after xmas, assuming i get my a torque wrench from my father-in-law. hope i don't run into some of the problems i've read in this thread w/ air leak issues/CEL etc

heh - ya i'll be sure to give a nice big to my service manager while i'm there
(i have one of the many 'not willing to help, charge you out the ass' local dealerships in my area)

01tl4tl

I make it a point to drop off some donuts or other `weather appropriate` treat like ice cream to the SM for the staff

When you need 4 grand of goodwill- 5-10 bucks was a bargin for them to think you are the nicest customer ever!

bruistopher

and guys i didn't take the throttle body off the plenum because i figured what's the use when all im doing is really cleaning out the egr port on it.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

, that can work, but i would not let the stealship even touch my car

01tl4tl

the dealer can give me all the free transmissins it wants~

01tl4tl

Is it running ok now is the big question

bruistopher

@01tl4tl

the car never showed any symptoms to begin with. the car is driving fine and getting some good gas mileage. i reset the engine light yesterday when i got home from work and it hasn't been on all last night and when i drove this morning the light didn't come on.

i suppose either the exhaust is flowing through the egr port but it is somewhat still clogged. but i will keep you updated later today to see if the light jumps on after i get off work. if it does then i will take apart the intake manifold sometime next week because here in Delaware we are expecting some good amount of snow tonight going into tomorrow

bruistopher

well the car has been doing fine, after clearing the codes on 12/18/09 that night, the check engine light has not jumped back on and i suppose the exhaust is following through the egr port good now:bronzecup

01tl4tl

unless you took it apart and cleaned the egr port(s) will still have hardened crud in the very small 8mm sleeve

When the car is at any rpm beside idle or full throttle -the egr valve opens and sends exhaust gas thru the port into the manifold to be reburned- its smog crap
After not too long -75kmiles- the ports plug up- the TL being the worst of any car I have seen with this issue

bruistopher

Well the engine light came back on again last night and I believe its time to take the manifold off again and clean it good this time and take my time unlike last time.

Also quick question regarding the egr port on the engine. Is it safe to clean the engine egr port and if so will it be okay to spray throttle spray cleaner through it. Because what I'm thinking is the crud is going to go in the engine.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

what part of the egr port??? at the valve??? cause normally that is not the part that gets blocked, it is the intake manifold, especially in the top plates small passages

but spraying t/b cleaner will be alright going through the engine, along with all the crud (the tb cleaner will dissolve it into smaller particales or basically "liquid form", just might be a little smokey till you drive around the block

bruistopher

@fries

There are two egr ports. There is one on the plenum and one on the engine intake. That's the one I'm referring to. Basically you answered my question in your second paragraph.

Its to cold to be taking that engine intake off. Its like 20 degrees here in Delaware. I just hate having that engine light on though!

bruistopher

And fries your avatars are by far the hilarious pics I've seen this year!

Sent via BlackBerry

bruistopher

Well today guys I went through this project again and I started at 9am and ended at 12pm. This was a lot easier, I didn't need the instructions this time, but I did however needed them to torque down the manifold bolts.

Mind you the check engine light is still on with code "p0401" which is egr insufficient flow and the code was pending to see if there would be an good flow.

Well I took off the EGR valve first and this is what it look like at the bottom of it:


This is what the EGR Valve connection looks on the engine block:



I used two tooth brushes and this is what the bottom of the egr valve, egr valve on engine block connection, egr port on engine block and the egr port on the plenum did to both of the tooth brushes:


Pretty black if you tell me and so much crud was built up in all those ports, I thought the last time I did a good job, obviously I didn't

Here is in chronological order the EGR port on the engine block, EGR port on the plenum (intake manifold), and the EGR Valve connection on the engine block.





All the ports were dirty and build with crud. I thought I got it before but after really getting down and dirty with the engine I got as much crud out

And I put everything back together and the engine is cool and new:


I drove the car around and did freeway drive the engine light didn't go off but the TCS light came on as I went on my freeway drive. I came home did what 01tl4tl and disconnected the clock back up fuse which was number 13 with 7.5 amps. Then connected the fuse back after a minute. Started the engine and the engine light was off. I hope the engine can relearn and see that the flow of the egr port is clean

01tl4tl

nice job x- good pics for others to understand whats happens inside- this job needs to be done every 75kmiles on the TL per our megamod with 300,000 miles on his 00

resetting the ecu is critical to the system relearn- its like making your desktop do a power button shut down- forces a full system reboot and relearn

May take a few weeks of driving to fully relearn but should take care of the code for you

Did you clean the TB plate and iac while you were in there?

bruistopher

@01tl4tl

Yeah I definitely took the IAC off. Although it wasn't dirty at all. Just the coolant hose at the bottom of the unit was difficult to get off! I really had to yank the hose kinda because it was not trying to slide. I was careful though.

I cleaned the throttle plate thoroughly. It wasn't filthy but there were crud spots in the corner where it turns when you open the throttle. I got the front and back side of the throttle plate. Other than that after I put everything back together for some reason its quieter and more responsive when I did the freeway drive.

I haven't driven it after pulling the ECU fuse however. I will drive it to work tomorrow because it has to go through the relearn aspect. I hope the ECU did reset. All it needed was at least a minute, right? Because the clock went out when I pulled the fuse. So I suppose it reset.

The EVAP solenoid is getting annoying also. I'm thinking about replacing it because it ticks faster when the engine is at operating temperature. Is it cheap to replace?

Other than me doing this project for the second time. I feel well bond with my TL now. Other then me balancing tires and doing tranny fluid changes and recently changing my serpentine belts. This project was by far the easiest and I'm a rookie mechanic and am in college to become a mechanic!

Now there is all left to do is wait a few days, weeks or months for results. Thanks fries, 01tl4tl and OP for the help. I expect to do the thermobloack project in the spring when I finish my spring semester.

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friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

with... a little spring cleaning of the egr passages AGAIN, it's not that bad really, but won't hurt it while the manifold is off

bruistopher

@01tl4tl

Okay, well let me run down how this code came about. When I seafoamed my car which was 2 or 4 weeks ago. I put 1 can in the engine crankcase and 1 can in through the intake. I then let the car sit. I then started her up and boy so much smoke was coming out the tailpipe. I then drove her around and the check engine light came on. It put out 3 codes, one was about idle control, the other was about shifting but that was minor and i forgot what the other was. Well that same day after joy riding around I cleared all the codes and then got my oil changed. I then proceeded home and I drove the car normal until i announced in this thread or a thread I made that the code P0401 came up.

I then said to myself then it must be the EGR system. I then proceeded and did the procedures in this thread. I cleaned the EGR ports on the engine and manifold. I even posted a few pictures. I cleared the codes probably 5 times now total. I then did what you told me to do and reset the ECU. well that put out the computer and the computer relearning. So I plugged my OBD-2 scan tool in the port and scanned for codes and look behold: P0401 is pending. So I know the engine light will be on soon.

What is there left to do?

I'm thinking when I seafoamed the car with 1 can of it and floored it to get all the crud out it messed up the EGR system somehow.

What can I do now?

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

is the intake manifold gasket on the correct way??? (the one right under the cover) it can fit multiple ways, but only one way is correct, and allow the egr gasses to flow correctly

bruistopher

Dude I'm sure it is on correctly. I made sure it was on correctly because the gasket egr hole is aligned with the egr hole on the engine block.

It's really frustrating to know you put in so much effort taking it apart and putting it back and to know you think that problem is solved but its still there. I cleaned that port as much as I could and even when I was spraying the throttle cleaner through the egr port on the engine block I could see the fluid coming out of the port near the egr valve (i took the egr valve off). So I know the passage is clear but seriously what the heck is the problem?

If it was the egr valve it would put out a code that its malfunction right? And I'm not getting no other codes but that P0401.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

maybe try sticking a coat hanger or something down the holes to make sure it is clear all the way through the passages


and normally honda's egr valve do not go bad quite like how the GM one's do
and that code could be a sticky egr valve, but i think there might still be something in the passages

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

and also i forgot you had an 99 tl, so i was thinking of a different gasket that you do not have

bruistopher

For some reason I think its the EGR valve. I don't know why but I'm going with the EGR valve. Is there a way for me to clean it? If not how much does it cost for replacement?

bruistopher

And yes I do have a 99 TL with the one port. Gosh I've been in this thread more than anybody with problems on this EGR

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

http://www.hondapartsunlimited.com/i...&submit=submit

#20, and basically $150, so not really cheap
as said try and poke a coat hanger through the holes to make sure they are clear all the way through

also just thought if it was truely sticking, it would be saying the valve is out of range or something, cause it has a potentiometer (sp?) inside the valve, that would tell the ecu that it was not moving correctly

and just saying for this \/:
you might have an o2 sensor going bad,and the ecu is not seeing it respond correctly when it does happen to engage the egr (the ecu depends on the o2 on at least 90% of it calculations)
and i know honda does not like to throw out too many codes for the o2 until it is REALLY bad and basically dead

and that seafoam, might have caused mores issues with a weak o2 sensor already

also how good is your obd2 scanner, can you get live data and graph it???

bruistopher

I truly think me seafoaming with that 1 can of seafoam through the intake manifold did something or triggered something.

So my options is to:

-clean the egr ports again with a hanger
-replace the egr valve or clean it
-replace oxygen sensors

I say sensors because I'm sure there is more than one. So since you think it might be the oxygen sensor and honda doesn't like putting in the computer or triggering the code unless its really going bad, which sensor or what should I do regarding that?

I'm telling you man, this car is getting on my nerves. I'm already about to hit the 105k and about to shell out 1 grand for the timing and water pump replacement.

bruistopher

by the way my gas mileage is horrible and i'm eating through gas...so what can that lead to?

bruistopher

also my engine pings when i accelerate from a stop. you can here a tiny rattle but it goes away at full throttle or heavy throttle.

I suppose the EGR valve has a lot to do with it according to this passage: pinging can be caused by improper gasoline octane, an overly lean air-to-fuel mixture, or a lack of proper exhaust gas recirculation. The exhaust gas recirculation system (EGR) was created to neutralize engine pinging by adding a small amount of exhaust gas to the air-to-fuel mixture going in to the combustion process, which limits the peak combustion chamber temperature.

So it looks like I have some work to do with this egr system again. something in this egr system isn't working correctly.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

i say your o2 is going out, and yeah honda parameters are pretty loose as far as turning on the CEL with that sensor being bad

also how bad our we talking in gas mileage???
it leads to that the engine is not running correctly, cause a rich running engine is safer then a lean running engine; and a rich running engine covers up ALOT of issues of how it runs; normally bad gas mileage is the first indication that it is not running correctly
modern ecu's can cover alot of driveability issues

a bad o2 will cause some WEIRD issues when it is going out, and it is the one sensor that basically every other sensor is based off of, one way or another, so has a HUGE connection with how the engine actually runs

and you only have one o2 sensor (:shakehead; it had two though, be better control of each cylinder bank, cause it would read each bank seperate)(yes there is a second one behind the cat, but that is mainly just to check to make sure the cat is actually working)

bruistopher

I will keep replacing the o2 sensor in consideration.

But its really cold here in Delaware and I really don't have the time to be opening up that intake again. I start school again on January 14. Hopefully I am able to bring in my car in the college school and work on it there.

I think personally that I haven't cleaned the EGR system good. I first will clean the egr port passage good and do the egr valve. I will then test the egr valve to see if its working, if not then I will replace it ($150).

If that doesn't solve the problem then I got to look deeper because something is clogging up the flow of the exhaust to get into the cylinders.

I highly doubt its the o2 sensor though. I mean my gas mileage is good only if I'm obeying the speed limit. If I floor it and ride hard on the highway and drive in the city a lot then gas will be consumed. But I drive it on the highway usually full throttle going 80mph and in overdrive and rpm's are at 3,000. So that is probably another reason why I am using up gas. Maybe I should obey the law because when that happens my gas mileage is good.

I have no symptoms. That's the funny thing about my car. I mean I hear a light rattle at start off from a stop. But it sounds like the exhaust shield is loose. And my car idles perfectly fine.

So the EGR valve is definitely closed at idle. So its doing that correctly I got to make sure that its opening up when I'm cruising because if it isn't then I will look at an replacement.

As of today to keep you guys updated. The code P0401 is still pending in the ECU so I'm sure with another drive cycle the code will pop up and the CEL will light.

I love this car, I guess this is part of being a mechanic you have to figure out stuff and my mind is literally going all over the place trying to figure out an solution

But I will get a solution and a fix. Trust me with God's help and the community

bruistopher

In that picture above is my egr valve. The port on the right is that suppose have a clear open passage because by the look of it. It looks pretty small...I know on the left that is the valve that opens and closes.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

the port is only that oval shaped area, they just made it larger due to using the same egr gaskets for many years (predates 1990)


and as said stick something like a coat hanger down the ports to make sure they are clean all the way through



also how is the throttle response when you snap the throttle from an idle (especially in park/neutral), does it to have a slow response/kinda feels like it stumbles