TLer trash

Any decent mechanic, machine shop, or especially, an automotive machine shop should be able to help you out.

6MTUA5

iTrader: (2)

I did the same thing except with my IAT sensor.

newperson

iTrader: (2)

Wow this seems simple. I'm gonna try it.

thinhthan

is it ok to just leave it? or should i get a shop to fix it? how much would they charge me to fix it

DaveS221

iTrader: (1)

finished installing kit and when I start the engine, a loud hissing noise comes from the engine (can't pinpoint where because the noise is so loud) and the engine revs up and down. Iv disassembled and reassembled everything three times now, checking all the hoses, gaskets, proper torquing of the bolts, and cleaned the IACV. what am i missing or what is going wrong?? my car has been undriveable for 2 weeks now and i'm getting frantic

01tl4tl

the very upper intake manifold gasket-under the big cover that exposes the valleys and had oil and crud in it
probably got installed upside down
It matches up hole locations on the cover side but not the manifold side-blocks a crucial port
Fools people who put the gasket in place on the cover, then flip cover over right side up, and install

You reused the metal base gasket? and got ALL the old soft gasket material off the TB attachment- changed the longer studs into the manifold and everything is torqued properly, vac hose and radiator hoses hooked up right- not coolant to a vac line? has happened before- check this thread for problems others had

I have seen the gasket prob several times on here

01tl4tl

revs up and down is vac related

DaveS221

iTrader: (1)

i put that on so it covered the grooves n stuff. should i flip it the other way so theyre kinda exposed? cuz the bolts line up both ways.. and yes i reused the metal gasket and got the old TB gasket off, bolts are torqued (got a torque wrench for this job), studs have been changed.

DaveS221

iTrader: (1)

how am i supposed to fix the iacv? i cleaned it out but i don't see what there is to fix, its just this solid lookin piece. do i have to take the plastic thing off the side of the metal part (sorry for soundin newb as hell) and clean the actual valve?

Larry1030

My 99 TL has 92K miles, and the CEL has been on for the last month or so. I got the codes read - P0401 and P0420 - google got me to this thread and I figured, what the heck, why not try cleaning the EGR port myself? At worst I would end up still having to pay a mechanic to fix my car ...

I following the instructions by the OP, although I didn't want to put a Thermoblock kit in, just make the car run like it used to and get rid of the trouble codes. My port had narrowed down to a pinhole - it was full of carbon black. I cleaned it with throttle body cleaner, drill bits (turned by hand only) and a brass-bristle tubing brush and within a few minutes had it reopened to its original size. I reassembled the car, reset the ECU codes by removing fuse 6 on the inside passenger side fuse block, and when I started the car it ran beautifully and the CEL was out. I drove about 25 miles and the light never came back on. I am so psyched! I had hoped it would clear up the P0401, and then I would address the P0420, probably by replacing the cat, but the EGR port cleanout seems to have fixed BOTH problems!

It took me about 3.5 hours. I only took the throttle body off of the plenum and the plenum off the engine - I didn't take the three other end cap thingees off the plenum. The plenum to manifold gasket and TB to plenum gaskets were fine, so although I had purchased a plenum gasket kit ($32) I reused the old gaskets and got the money back for the gasket kit. In fact, the whole job only took one 16 oz can of TB cleaner - total cost < $5!!!

Thanks so much to the OP for posting the instructions. I would not have had the courage to do this myself without his help.

Larry1030

PS Update one day later: it was too good to be true. Today the CEL came back on and I had the codes read again. The bad news is that the P0420 is back. The good news is the P0401 is still gone. Not surprising, really.

01tl4tl

codes are CLUES not diagnosis---dont panic!
More often an O2 sensor goes before a cat -its failure may lead to cat failure,,
A muffler shop can do a few simple test of temp and pressure-flow and tell you if the cat and the exhaust are ok

Was the recall Intake manifold cleaning-EGR port cleaning ever done on your 99?,
If not - let them redo the job their way
I think there was a tune up parts extended warranty too
Its worth dropping by the dealer and ask them to run your VIN

01tl4tl

If the muffler shop diagnosis the cat as failed- and they have to fill out a document on every single one they replace as to why it failed or was changed, then send the forms to the govt to track all the cats..so they do actually test them and know for certain..its not bs at that point,,
when its just a code--still could be anything~

Acurazine vendor Excelerate has the correct, legal cats in different levels from stock to performance for an excellent price

adamlee05

Are the P2R thermal gaskets just as effective?

Larry1030

Thanks, 01tl4tl. I will follow your advice and take the car to a muffler shop. I assume you are talking about one of the franchise-type places such as Meineke or Midas?

Just curious also, do you know how the failure of an O2 sensor can lead to the cat failing? What is the mechanism involved?

One last question: I have read several threads on here where people talked about Excelerate cats. There seems to be some difference of opinion regarding whether you will still get P0420 after installing one. I wonder if anyone has replaced the O2 sensors, installed an Excelerate, and reset the ECU and still gotten P0420 afterwards?

01tl4tl

stay FAR away from the places you mentioned!!!!
They will tell you it needs a brand new exhaust system~

Go to a small local owned shop for best service

The cats Excelerate sells are legal and good-
some find they have to put a small extension (spark plug anti-fouler) on the O2 or it gets too much flow and false reading/code

The O2 sensors in front and back of the cat measure unburned fuel and other things, sending info to the computer which adjust the fuel flow
Too much fuel can kill the cat, or too little makes it run hot and melt inside

01tl4tl

P2R uses a different material- similar idea, to reduce heat transfer

Larry1030

01tl4tl, you rock! Thanks very much for all your help. I think I understand now what I need to do (other than taking the car to the dealer, dropping my pants and bending over.)

adamlee05

Are they as effective though? They're half the price, just curious

01tl4tl

P2R sells the TB spacer seperate from the intake manifold spacers
So check total price for both..Outlaw sells them as a kit

You want to keep heat from the engine out of the manifold, as well as seperate the heat going to the TB from the intake manifold

Look up the spec pages and see whats up for yourself

Larry1030

I spoke with the owner of a local owned shop that I have done business with before. I think he is honest. They don't just do mufflers but do list mufflers and exhausts as one of their specialties.

I told him frankly that since I have lost my job I would do the job myself if it could save me some money and just asked him how much he would charge to diagnose the problem. He said he had never seen a bad O2 sensor be the reason for a P0420. He suggested the aft sensor should read ~.6V if the cat is doing its job. He suggested a Walker cat. So my questions are:

1. Is what he is telling me true?

2. Is Walker OK? How are they compared to the Excelerates?

01tl4tl

the O2 sensors do have an electrical spec- I dont know it but it can be looked up and their resistance tested with a multi meter- maybe your friend will tell you how

O2 sensor is reasonably cheap and DIY install, kragen and similar stores will sell you one and if it doesnt fix the problem, they will take it back no hassle--so there is a testing option before thinking cat

Did the shop do a flow test and a temp test of the cat?
If not, you have no new info to go on, Need facts not guesses

Go to a real muffler shop where thats the specialty- they know cats!!!!
Have them test and advise
Call Josh at Excelerate- he will give you honest info and pricing to compare

No you dont want to install it yourself- there may be minor modifications and welding of the brackets and old stuck bolts holding the cat in the exhaust

Larry1030

No he didn't do any testing. I just told him what the codes were and what I had already done and asked him to tell me how much he wanted to test the cat and that's when he said he had never seen a P0420 be caused by an O2 sensor. I guess he's not really a muffler or cat specialist. The problem is I don't know how to find one here (in Raleigh, NC). If I look for mufflers on google maps the only places that come up are Midas and Meineke and Monroe.

poohlikeshunny

I suppose the P1497 code is probably the clogged egr because if i try to reset it via battery disconnect it stays off for awhile before flashing back on.

My question comes in a deuce, is P1497 indeed a clogged EGR? And can I remove the intake manifold to clean the EGR without having to take apart the whole throttle body/TCS system? I don't want to do the spacers yet, just clean the port so I can permanently get rid of the light and pass inspection...

Thanks homies!

01tl4tl

you need to remove the TB assembly from the manifold so you can clean the manifold with its throat up and then down
You only need to replace the gasket from TB to manifold- cheap
3 cabs carb spray will take care of the cleaning

Larry1030

We have a couple of threads on what the codes mean here

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-problems-fixes-117/ecu-codes-99-01-tls-588253/

and

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-1999-2003-98/%2Acel-code-list%2A-686844/

but neither lists P1497.

I cleaned my EGR port a couple weeks ago - I had P0401 (and P0420 which I still have). No, you don't remove the manifold, just the plenum (which is on top of the manifold). I removed the plenum from the manifold and the TB from the plenum. I cleaned the TB and TB plate with TB cleaner, and I cleaned out the EGR port with a brass bristle brush, drill bits (turned by hand only), and TB cleaner. It was clean as a whistle after.

I didn't need to replace either gasket - I wanted to replace the TB gasket but I couldn't find it in a local parts store - even the dealer was out of stock and I didn't want to wait for it. I didn't want to break open the $31 plenum gasket kit, which comes with all 5 gaskets which touch the plenum, and the TB gasket came off clean so I put some gasket sealer on it and reused it.

Good luck, dude.

beachexotic03

iTrader: (2)

Nice write up!

MrScandal

nice writeup

murky

How do you guys handle the runnoff from the carb spray and gunk that you hose out of the manifold?

Any work I do will be in the driveway of my suburban home. Obviously I don't want this stuff going into the storm drain.

Is there an easy and responsible way to do this at home?

FirePR2002

collect it and take it to an autozone or other parts store with an oil dump.

01tl4tl

some have used a large black plastic bag- yard type- maybe two of them together for safety
Add some grease sweep or kitty litter to the bottem and use the garden hose to run water down the throat and runners- then turn it upside down and rinse the other direction
Shake and turn to get all the water out and the litter will absorb it
Once its dried out in the bag its ok to put in the regular garbage

After thorough rinsing- use compressed air, a hair dryer, the sun and gravity,,, to be certain its ALL dry inside
Water does not compress like fuel vapors- and MAY cause serious damage if it enters the combustion chamber

01tl4tl

that water residue is NOT `oil` by the parts stores definition AND ability to accept it-
The local hazmat center will accept it for free too!, you can drop off old half bottles of brake fluid, paint etc at the same place

murky

Thanks for the suggestions. I guess I had envisioned more than a couple of gallons of water in the process.

So carb cleaner won't eat garbage bags I take it? What about brake cleaner?

kanikakeo

hey guys just wondering, im wanting to clean out my egr port only, and do i really have to take out the stock air box like this diy. Or can i just leave the air box and tb connected while just removing the im like the stealership would? And yea thanks for the writeup

01tl4tl

iirc the original write up of this thread was on a 99,with its single egr port
2000 and on has 6 egr ports in the manifold

If the dealer instructions remove manifold and TB unit whole, thats what you should follow- it will be the faster method--i know in these pages are 3 methods to do the job- take your pic


while the TB is off- clean the iacv on the bottem side of TB unit

you do want to remove the rubber intake snout tube from the TB to airbox so its easier to access things, and lift the entire manifold straight off- and straight down on install

01tl4tl

kitty litter, grease sweep or fireplace ash can be used in the catch bag for the liquid wash/rinse runoff
dont add just fluid to plastic bag! use an absorbent

Safzal

just a quick question. I took apart my manifold and tb to clean the egr port. now when i put it back on, since im not adding the spacers, are the torque specifications the same? is it still gonna be 14-18 ftlbs for the tb and 16-18 for the mani? also, is there any specific order for putting on the throttle bolts or, or should i just criss-cross?

hANDYcaptd

iTrader: (5)

Yup, it's 16 ftlbs for the TB and IM. 8.7 ftlbs for the IM cover.

TB doesn't have a pattern. Criss cross should be fine.

The IM pattern is:

Back of car
3, 1, 5, 7
9, 6, 4, 2, 8
Front of car

01tl4tl

use the diagram on the manifold bolts and bring the torque up slowwwwly in steps -
like 3 steps- it will amaze you how much aluminum spreads loads and torque changes
So go finger tight- then hand tight with hand on top of ratchet and then to 16 with torque wrench
I recheck bolts on hot parts like that after 200-500 miles to be sure nothing came a little loose- usually something has and causes vac leaks

clean the IAC under the 2 screws and round cover- bottem side of TB unit
Lube throttle cables while its apart and clean plate inside main body of TB

webmastir

ok...just spent last 1-2hours reading this thread. i'm going to be doing this soon. since the pics from the o.p. were from a '99, what can i expect to see once i take that top plate off the I.M. on my '03? (the top plate being the one in the middle you can see when the beauty cover is on)
anyone have a pic of what it'll look like, or will it not look much different than what has been said/shown?