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Old 04-09-2007, 7:43 PM   #1
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2008: Year of the supercharged RL

I came across this thread in a Road & Track forum regarding the '08 RL A-SPEC. Not sure what to make of it other then I don't see a supercharger in Acura's future (considering the RDX is turbocharged):

The upcoming 2008 Acura RL A-Spec will feature the same A-SPEC design as the 07 model. The RL A-SPEC package will keep the already great handling and aggressive styling with a track-tuned suspension package that lowers the car by approximately 3/4 inch, 18-inch alloy wheels equipped with Michelin Pilot Sport tires, an underbody kit, and a deck lid spoiler.

The performance upgrades include a powerful 400-horsepower supercharged 3.5 liter engine. A-SPEC adds a cold air intake, plus a stainless header and exhaust system. The RL A-SPEC kit will be priced at approximately $8,500 plus dealer installation and covered under a factory warranty.

In addition to the upcoming A-SPEC equipped RL, Acura is also going to make other high performance A-SPEC models. The upcoming 08 TSX will supercharge the 2.4-liter TSX engine to increase horsepower from 200 to 250. No word on a TL performance A-SPEC for 08, but I'd bet on them making one.
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Old 04-09-2007, 8:03 PM   #2
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A supercharger would be great for that low down torque, better than a turbo, or at least that is what I understand. With 3.5 liters, I think you would need a pretty big turbo. If this is half way true, I think there would be a lot of people clamoring for retro fit!
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Old 04-09-2007, 8:44 PM   #3
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I had a Park Avenue Ultra (3.8 liter Supercharged) and it went exceptionally well for a large, heavy car. I also previously had a non-supercharged Park Avenue. Both cars got essentially the same gas mileage but the supercharged version had considerably more acceleration kick in the pants.

A supercharged version of the RL would be sweet. Maybe we existing owners will have an aftermarket or Acura upgrade path for adding on the supercharger.
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Old 04-09-2007, 9:04 PM   #4
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Interesting... but I'll belief it when I see it.
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Old 04-09-2007, 10:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wstr75
I had a Park Avenue Ultra (3.8 liter Supercharged) and it went exceptionally well for a large, heavy car. I also previously had a non-supercharged Park Avenue. Both cars got essentially the same gas mileage but the supercharged version had considerably more acceleration kick in the pants.

A supercharged version of the RL would be sweet. Maybe we existing owners will have an aftermarket or Acura upgrade path for adding on the supercharger.

I also drove a supercharged Regal GS for a few years. No doubt it was the best bang for the buck car I ever owned. City mileage wasn't great (14 MPG) but I didn't expect much in L.A. traffic (only put 9,000 miles/yr on that car). But highway mileage surpassed 29 MPG at a steady 75 MPH. The only negative it had was its FWD platform. Come this summer, I will seriously consider the STS-V. The only two cars that I have driven that surpasses the GS in 'g-force' performance was a 1979 Macho T/A and a Maserati BiTurbo (the BiTurbo could give you whiplash!).

I don't understand why manufacturers shy away from using a supercharger. The cost is the same as turbocharging with greater benefits (better low end torque, no performance lag and the engine runs a little cooler). I do not see supercharging in Acura's future. Supercharged engines do not like to rev high. As we all know, Honda engines like their redlines at 7,000+.
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Old 04-09-2007, 10:13 PM   #6
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Are you saying that RL will be available with supercharged engine (factory fit) or the extra HP will be available via A-Spec upgrades only that will be available to everyone for?
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Old 04-09-2007, 10:39 PM   #7
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Sign me up for a supercharger. The 3.5L is a great engine block and supercharged would be sweeeeeeeeeet !

Question for the group. Do you think the ancient 5 speed auto can handle the additional HP and torque. I'm thinking the transmission would fly off if we got close to 400+hp and over 315 torque.. with the current 3.5L. Some regearing would be needed...

just curious..
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Old 04-09-2007, 11:06 PM   #8
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I'm in! Like Touge though, I'll believe it when I see it.....
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Old 04-09-2007, 11:06 PM   #9
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The RL will cost too much for young people. If you add a supercharger, then it definitely will not sell. Adding stuff like a supercharger should only be done if you're trying to target the young crowd.
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Old 04-09-2007, 11:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visuelz
The RL will cost too much for young people. If you add a supercharger, then it definitely will not sell. Adding stuff like a supercharger should only be done if you're trying to target the young crowd.
I'll buy it and I definitely wouldn't consider myself part of the "young crowd". Of course, I'm very interested in getting the performance of this beast to the right level....
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Old 04-10-2007, 12:37 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tully44
I came across this thread in a Road & Track forum regarding the '08 RL A-SPEC. Not sure what to make of it other then I don't see a supercharger in Acura's future (considering the RDX is turbocharged):

The upcoming 2008 Acura RL A-Spec will feature the same A-SPEC design as the 07 model. The RL A-SPEC package will keep the already great handling and aggressive styling with a track-tuned suspension package that lowers the car by approximately 3/4 inch, 18-inch alloy wheels equipped with Michelin Pilot Sport tires, an underbody kit, and a deck lid spoiler.

The performance upgrades include a powerful 400-horsepower supercharged 3.5 liter engine. A-SPEC adds a cold air intake, plus a stainless header and exhaust system. The RL A-SPEC kit will be priced at approximately $8,500 plus dealer installation and covered under a factory warranty.

In addition to the upcoming A-SPEC equipped RL, Acura is also going to make other high performance A-SPEC models. The upcoming 08 TSX will supercharge the 2.4-liter TSX engine to increase horsepower from 200 to 250. No word on a TL performance A-SPEC for 08, but I'd bet on them making one.
I finally found this thread, and it is over a year old. I think this is much ado about nothing.
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Old 04-10-2007, 1:42 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas2
I finally found this thread, and it is over a year old. I think this is much ado about nothing.
Huh? This was just posted today. At any rate, in regards to supercharging in general, I think it's a great idea, as well. Working at a Land Rover dealership, two of our four models are available with a Supercharged trim package (the Range Rover and Range Rover Sport). Especially with the Range Rover Sport there is a lot more off-the-line oomph with the supercharged model compared to the standard.
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Old 04-10-2007, 10:02 AM   #13
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If this comes to pass, I may have to consider a trade.

It'll be even better if the parts can be installed in any RL. Given the description, I'd say that's the case. Sign me up!

Of course, I won't believe it until I see Touge driving it down the street....

And besides, why can't Honda just import the Mugen Max (400 hp V8)? This would be in keeping with Honda's recently adding Mugen-modded models for the US market.
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Old 04-10-2007, 11:36 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neuronbob
If this comes to pass, I may have to consider a trade.

It'll be even better if the parts can be installed in any RL. Given the description, I'd say that's the case. Sign me up!

Of course, I won't believe it until I see Touge driving it down the street....

And besides, why can't Honda just import the Mugen Max (400 hp V8)? This would be in keeping with Honda's recently adding Mugen-modded models for the US market.
That would certainly make more sense. I'm very hopeful though, I'd prefer to mod my current RL with the Supercharger vs. buying a new one. I'm attached with everything I've done to it....
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Old 04-10-2007, 11:59 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas2
I finally found this thread, and it is over a year old. I think this is much ado about nothing.
Well that explains it...yesterday I cracked my windshield and am sort of considering trading my '05 for something else instead of going through the hassle of fixing the windshield. Last night I googled 2008 Acura RL and got a reference to that thread...clicking on the link took me to the R&T site, but I wasn't able to find the thread.
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Old 04-10-2007, 1:40 PM   #16
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That will definitely eat up all S60R's! I hope they do it!

And I don't think the SC caters to a young crowd who can't afford it. The Jaguar S-Type R is supercharged...400hp...and I see lots of those around CA. (love that car too)
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Old 04-10-2007, 2:51 PM   #17
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I found the thread on the R&T forum pretty easily. That is an old thread, with no substantiation. If only it were actually true.
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Old 04-10-2007, 2:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemule
Well that explains it...yesterday I cracked my windshield and am sort of considering trading my '05 for something else instead of going through the hassle of fixing the windshield. Last night I googled 2008 Acura RL and got a reference to that thread...clicking on the link took me to the R&T site, but I wasn't able to find the thread.
Hit "cache" in your google search and it'll pull it up.

Haven't heard anything about this since, so it may have just been idle talk....
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Old 04-10-2007, 3:17 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas2
I finally found this thread, and it is over a year old. I think this is much ado about nothing.
Here is the year old thread from R&T forums

http://forums.roadandtrack.com/cars/....id=1143#M7446

I was not able to find any additional information on "Tuner News", so like I said, I think it is much ado about nothing.
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Old 04-10-2007, 7:43 PM   #20
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Old 04-10-2007, 7:45 PM   #21
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I've owned three SC cars: T-Bird, GP GTP, and GP GTP with Comp G. Acura would have to do a lot of engineering to quell the inherent torque steer with adding the SC to the RL. The traction control would negate any real benefit of the SC on the RL.

Now, if they would make the RL a rear driver then I could see the benefit.
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Old 04-10-2007, 7:59 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexorg
I've owned three SC cars: T-Bird, GP GTP, and GP GTP with Comp G. Acura would have to do a lot of engineering to quell the inherent torque steer with adding the SC to the RL. The traction control would negate any real benefit of the SC on the RL.

Now, if they would make the RL a rear driver then I could see the benefit.
Torque steer? Don't notice any on the RL. Just asking, not trying to be cheeky. I know the RL without SH-AWD is an FF car but with SH-AWD the torque steer is minimized.
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Old 04-10-2007, 8:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neuronbob
Torque steer? Don't notice any on the RL. Just asking, not trying to be cheeky. I know the RL without SH-AWD is an FF car but with SH-AWD the torque steer is minimized.
They have a Supercharger for the TL Type-S and that's FWD. I don't see an issue with this either....
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Old 04-10-2007, 8:45 PM   #24
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I am going to go out on a limb on this one...

but i don't think honda engineers are going to have a problem addressing torque steer when they came out with a winged turbo in 1987 i believe....

anyways if they come FI; which I highly believe they will to make more power and yet meeting emissions they will go turbo because they can fit it in the engine compartment much easier...or lower(by subframe)

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Old 04-12-2007, 12:17 AM   #25
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I could never afford the insurance
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Old 04-12-2007, 1:56 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gcook
I could never afford the insurance
Can't see room under the hood for the supercharger!
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Old 04-12-2007, 1:58 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by hokietl
Can't see room under the hood for the supercharger!
It would be nice to get the 3.7L with 6sp auto...for '08
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Old 04-12-2007, 9:02 AM   #28
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Torque is a twisting force. Its what gets the car moving by turning the wheels. In a perfect world torque would be applied equally to all wheels, but such things as tire condition, tire pressure, road surfaces, unequal half-shafts, differentials, etc. will cause one wheel to turn faster than another, Car engineeers use a variety of mechanical (and more recently electronic systems) systems to lessen torque steer. If you have ever seen a RWD car "fist tail" under hard acceleration who have witnessed severe torque steer. In FWD drive cars the same thing happens, but of course the front of the car will move either to the left or right. If you turn off VSA in the RL you will then have a FWD car. Try flooring your RL with VSA off and I promise you will get torque steer and put a enormous strain on your transmission. I am sure Honda/Acura made the new generation AWD because of the torque (258 ft-lbs) generated by the 290 HP engine. Putting a SC or a turbo in the RL will present a lot of problems for Honda/Acura engineers and will also raise the price of the RL beyond which most customers will want to pay, especially since the RL (4,012 lbs.) is not generally considered a sport sedan a la the TL at 3,585 lbs..
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Old 04-12-2007, 11:11 AM   #29
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All of this is sweet! But, will it help wake up RL sales?
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:03 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hokietl
Can't see room under the hood for the supercharger!
Check out the Comptech TL Supercharger. Bolts on to the 3.5 and is a unique design to fit under the hood. Expect something similar if this thing ever becomes a reality...
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Old 04-12-2007, 8:57 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexorg
Torque is a twisting force. Its what gets the car moving by turning the wheels. In a perfect world torque would be applied equally to all wheels, but such things as tire condition, tire pressure, road surfaces, unequal half-shafts, differentials, etc. will cause one wheel to turn faster than another, Car engineeers use a variety of mechanical (and more recently electronic systems) systems to lessen torque steer. If you have ever seen a RWD car "fist tail" under hard acceleration who have witnessed severe torque steer. In FWD drive cars the same thing happens, but of course the front of the car will move either to the left or right. If you turn off VSA in the RL you will then have a FWD car. Try flooring your RL with VSA off and I promise you will get torque steer and put a enormous strain on your transmission. I am sure Honda/Acura made the new generation AWD because of the torque (258 ft-lbs) generated by the 290 HP engine. Putting a SC or a turbo in the RL will present a lot of problems for Honda/Acura engineers and will also raise the price of the RL beyond which most customers will want to pay, especially since the RL (4,012 lbs.) is not generally considered a sport sedan a la the TL at 3,585 lbs..
Um, actually that is incorrect. Turn off the VSA and you still have an AWD car but it will not attempt to correct oversteer or understeer for you. SH-AWD actually functions much differently than any other AWD system. Most are FWD with torque transfer only applied when slippage occurs. The RL system is 70-30 (%) FWD during straight line cruising but is more like 70-30 (%) RWD during heavy acceleration (even with VSA off). And yes it will still engage the electro-magnetic clutches on the rear axle and transfer up to 100% of the rear torque to the outside wheel when cornering even with VSA turned off. (You can turn it off and watch the MID display to confirm) VSA and SH-AWD are separate systems and operate completely independent of each other.

That being said, a supercharger would not be in line with Hondas philosophy of shared platform/cost reduction. To me it would make more sense to put the small block V10 (4-4.6L) from the next gen NSX in the MMC RL which we have been told will have a longer wheelbase. My guess would be 3.7L V6 though and maybe V10 later. FI just will not happen on this car IMO.
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Old 04-12-2007, 9:50 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaysmith2000
Check out the Comptech TL Supercharger. Bolts on to the 3.5 and is a unique design to fit under the hood. Expect something similar if this thing ever becomes a reality...
honestly, i would bet money that the comptech blower for the TL would fit the RL with only minor modifications.
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Old 04-12-2007, 10:35 PM   #33
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honestly, i would bet money that the comptech blower for the TL would fit the RL with only minor modifications.
It will, Touge has confirmed this, however the ECU would need to be reprogrammed...
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Old 04-12-2007, 10:50 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Jaysmith2000
It will, Touge has confirmed this, however the ECU would need to be reprogrammed...
I can see it now....RL owners trolling the AZ Black Market for used Comptech superchargers.....

I guess we need to talk to Hondata for an ECU reprogram.
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Old 04-13-2007, 9:43 AM   #35
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It will, Touge has confirmed this, however the ECU would need to be reprogrammed...
why? there is no ECU programming for the 3G TL or 2G TL/CL
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Old 04-13-2007, 11:14 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by CleanCL
why? there is no ECU programming for the 3G TL or 2G TL/CL
I'll let Touge answer, this is way above my technical knowledge...
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Old 04-13-2007, 12:30 PM   #37
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Comptech uses acm box for the TL to control fuel and ignition. The RL ecu is different from the TL and the bigger displacement of the RL would make the a/f ratio's be out of spec. This could be overcome however with something like a afc to modify the fuel curve.
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Old 04-13-2007, 1:53 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Touge
Comptech uses acm box for the TL to control fuel and ignition. The RL ecu is different from the TL and the bigger displacement of the RL would make the a/f ratio's be out of spec. This could be overcome however with something like a afc to modify the fuel curve.
i honestly dont think the ACM controls ignition, if it were that easy, people would not spend thousands on getting an emanage set up for the 2G CL. i think all it does is alter IAT and input signals like that. that box def is not adaptive, so i dont see how that would control AFR based on the simple fact that every car is different.

i still think the stock ECU would do fine in regards to adjusting AFR, the acura ECUs are pretty adaptive. guys were putting down almost 300whp on stock ECU. not to mention some guy just put did a 3.5 stroker to his TL and put the blower on top. also a 2nd gen CL did the same.
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Old 04-13-2007, 2:44 PM   #39
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Many modern cars ecu's do adapt, however there is still a limit to this. Just because you have the # on the dyno, doesn't necessarily mean the ecu is happy. It would be nice if someone opened up a comptech acm box so we could get a better idea of what it consists of. Even on the TL there are sometimes surge issues, meaning the car is not fully dialed in to oem standard. Proper engine management makes all the difference between 300whp for a short time vs 300whp lasting you a long time. Alot of those 2nd gen CL's are out of warranty so for them they can gamble more and even if things go wrong it's not as big of a deal.
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Old 04-13-2007, 3:07 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Touge
Many modern cars ecu's do adapt, however there is still a limit to this. Just because you have the # on the dyno, doesn't necessarily mean the ecu is happy. It would be nice if someone opened up a comptech acm box so we could get a better idea of what it consists of. Even on the TL there are sometimes surge issues, meaning the car is not fully dialed in to oem standard. Proper engine management makes all the difference between 300whp for a short time vs 300whp lasting you a long time. Alot of those 2nd gen CL's are out of warranty so for them they can gamble more and even if things go wrong it's not as big of a deal.
most of them, if not all of them are monitoring AFR, using a wideband or something similiar and have been running the setup for YEARS. if you guys are really interested in the blower, do some searching on the 2G CL forums for mr.steve, scalbert, allmotor_2000, you will be suprised what you come up with. again, i stand by my original claim that i believe the blower would work on low boost and the motor will be fine.

p.s. search for 'thinjim' he is running 450+whp on stock internals, granted he is using engine management, but this just shows what the engine itself is capable of
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