ceb

Yes it is.

ceb

There is no reason why you can't go to the dealer and say "I want out of my lease because of your inability to do a timely recall. If they won't play ball then send a registered letter to Acura saying the same.

vega

the expanded recall has the effect of making all affected vehicles unsaleable until they are repaired, IOW worth $0 to the dealers. not one will touch my 2015 RDX.

Rolf65

So, does that increase the value of a used 2016 not impacted (yet?) by the recall? I would imagine that it is hurting the brand in general.

Rolf65

Incredibly naive response. Send a registered letter. Seriously?

Rolf65

This forum is useless. Unless you consider misinformation from auto company apologists useful.

ceb

You seem to have a burr up your ass about your car. I'd suggest that you sell it, burn it or leave it running in the Bronx with the keys in it.


Then try to find yourself a new car that has no issues or recalls. Good luck with that.


The way to complain is simple. Start with the dealer and if that doesn't work, then write a registered letter to the manufacturer. Why registered? That means that somebody needs to sign for it and it be on somebody's desk until it is answered - not an email that drops from the main screen in 5 minutes.


I understand that you aren't happy. You aren't the only one but if you find this forum so useless then why are you here?


Not many here work for the manufacturer. Some here work at dealerships and provide useful technical information.


What value added do you provide?

Puma Jim

We bought our 2016 RDX back in July. It had to be one of the first ones made but regardless called Honda and gave them my VIN and ours is not included in the recall

yrmed

See, that's too logical.

Today: I got to the dealer to pick up a loaner/rental. I walk in to the dealership and find a sales person and say "Hi, so my 2015 RDX is under the recall, and it won't be fixed for months, supposedly. Instead of going the loaner/rental route, i'm ready to give this lease back due to the recall and get a 2016 RDX same terms or buy a 2013/2014 MDX CPO....now..today, because I don't want to live months on end without "MY" car."

First words out of his mouth "Certainly...but you know you will have negative equity that we will need to do something about".....so, this conversation kind of fizzled after that. .

So, i'm at enterprise getting setup for a rental and the cost is $50/day...supposedly for 3 months + insurance. so, that's roughly $4,500 in expense that Honda/Acura has to pony up for just lil 'ole me....what about all the other people who want a rental/loaner....

I don't claim to know Honda/Acura Finances, but I'm pretty sure that my negative equity is probably a significantly lower expense for them vs shelling out a cool $5k over 3 months for a rental....Either this is flawed corp. logic at work or I'm not aware of something...for example maybe Honda/Acura has insurance for this type of thing or will rebill Takata.

In the mean time, because the rental payment got botched, I'm driving a '16 MDX...so Thanks Acura!

ceb

Right. Now have the same conversation with the GM instead of the salesman or sales manager.


Sure, the dealership is billing somebody for the rental/loaner but it would make far more sense just to put you in a new car.


There is no "negative equity" in a lease. If your car cost $40,000 with a 50% residual then your lease is for $20,000. Add fees and stuff and you're at 21000. If you are two years into the lease then you've paid $14000. Right now, the car must be worth more than the $27000 (residual plus difference between the amount owed on lease and what you've paid). Of course the residual is over 50% and the numbers above are just round numbers to make calculation easy but you get the drift.


Assuming that the cars don't take a financial hit from the airbag debacle, then Acura would make money by letting you out of your lease and reselling them - assuming that you return it in decent condition.


The dealership cannot logically treat this like a usual early lease return.


I'd bet that you'd get a different (more favorable) response from Acura corporate if you wrote them.

ceb

What does the safercar.gov website say? It has a place for you to input your VIN

Puma Jim

That site does not list the RDX and running my vin shows zero recalls

TacoBello

No one is forcing you to post here, if you think it's that useless

Kaputnik

It's here. Specific VIN info not available until Feb 15th.

Recall Information for Safety & Defects | Acura Owners Site

cudfoo

Honda dropped Takata early Nov. Any cars manufactured from Nov on probably won't have any issues. Maybe you'll get lucky and they stopped using them earlier. You would think early production would be early '15 (Feb-April) not Feb- Oct.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...uture-vehicles

5 Acuras

iTrader: (1)

Feb 15 should be an interesting day. If the government website doesn't crash.

jkozlow3

Are we sure about that? The article you referenced contains these 2 quotes:


"Honda Motor Co. said it will ban the company from supplying airbags for all of its future models."

"On a global basis, no new Honda and Acura models currently under development will be equipped with front-driver or passenger-side Takata airbag inflators, Honda said in a statement Tuesday."


I interpret those statements to mean that no NEW/FUTURE vehicles will have Takata airbags. Nowhere in the article did it say that all current production vehicles will stop using Takata airbags immediately. They said "currently under development" - not "currently under production".

cudfoo

Don't know just guessing that's what early production '16s must mean. My local dealer said they were told to not use their 15 rdx loaners but are still selling new '16 ILX and '16 RDX's. Would think Honda would force a stop sale on these if there were any possibility they contained the bad bags.

Rolf65

I come here for information and people give me their value statements instead. The people who have spoken authoritatively have been behind the curve on this issue and consistently wrong. Spreading misinformation is actually worse than useless. It's harmful.

Are you folks Honda homers or are you just incredibly naive? Hard for me to understand your statements otherwise.

Puma Jim

Yeah saw that before I called. I always expected my RDX to be added but not on there yet according to Honda. Did not know about the 15 fed date

n601ap

" Again, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

"Absence of evidence is evidence of absence" is not just a rule of thumb - it can be formulated as a provable theorem of probability theory. If there is some hypothesis H and some event E such that P(E|H) > P(E), we know that P(H|E) > P(H), or "E is evidence in favor of H." If this is the case, it is also true that P(~E|H) < P(~E), so we can conclude that P(H|~E) < P(H), or "not observing E implies lower probability of H." A quick proof is as follows:

By the formula of total probability:

P(H) = P(H\cap E) + P(H\cap\sim E)

Hence, by the definition of conditional probability:

P(H) = P(H|E)P(E) + P(H|\sim E)P(\sim E)

This simply means that P(H) is a weighted average of P(H|E) and P(H|~E) and is therefore somewhere between these values. Therefore if P(H|E) > P(H), i.e. if E is evidence for H, then P(H|~E) < P(H), i.e. ~E is evidence against H.

Repeating the same logical error even after being shown its fallacy is evidence of the absence of logical thought processes.

cudfoo

I'm out - getting to bizarre...

No one can say for sure what the facts\probabilities are 100%. Just having a conversation here.
One thing we're pretty sure about is the fact that most cars will be recalled.
Everyone will have to decide for themselves how they want to handle it...

thoiboi

This forum is only as useful as the threads that are created and the posters..



#byefelicia

n601ap

Now that the logic lessons are over, I would suggest you all pull out your lease agreements and read them thoroughly, especially the clauses that relate to early termination. Perhaps then you can discuss your options from a point of knowledge.

snorf

Millions of cars from numerous manufacturers used Takata air bags. I'm sure this is a huge headache for Honda/acura and whatever decision(s) they make regarding the airbags will be very costly so they want to take it slow. I completely understand that and realize Honda/acura is also a bureaucracy and things don't always move real fast. With that said, from a customer perspective I think they are doing a poor job of keeping their customers informed and perhaps even a poor job in keeping their dealers informed. (I don't know what the dealerships have or haven't been told and wouldn't trust them anyway.) I have no idea how other manufacturers are handling this (nor do I care as I own just one vehicle), but I think Honda/acura has done a poor job of keeping people informed. It's almost as if they are saying "we'll put some information out there, but you can hunt for it and figure it out for yourselves". Perhaps they are sitting back until they know for sure what the problems and solutions are and don't want to cause people to worry, but would rather wait until they have all the answers before saying anything. But there is obviously a group of people who would like to be kept up to date on what's going on with their "premium" vehicle. I don't think the airbag issue will have any impact on resale as there are many cars impacted with this issue. I do, however, think that the poor job of informing their customers may cost them some customers in the future. A person only buys so many cars in a lifetime and sometimes the bitter memories stick with you for a long time..... for example: I, for one, will wait for Hell to freeze over the 2nd time before walking onto a Chrysler lot.

vega

the point everyone is overlooking, Honda, and likely most other manufacturers have known of this problem for a long time, at least since 2004 according to the New York Times, Edmunds, and Consumer Reports. they made the choice to ignore it all this time, and now the end user is being asked to be patient. Here in Canada we may not see replacement air bags until this fall. these vehicles cannot be resold as they will not pass a safety due to the outstanding recall. up to this point Acura / Honda are offering no remedy to owners who do not wish to risk possible injury or death, nor to those who wish to sell their vehicle. Here, the vehicle has 0 value if the owner wants to sell it.

mdfree

So does anyone know what type of inflators are in the curtain and seat airbags? This will probably be the next recall ��

Ian Andrews

Acura Canada has put a stop sale on all new and pre-owned affected Acura's. Going to be tough to get out of your RDX if it is one of the ones affected by the recall. Dealership Pre-owned depts are also in for a tough time with many vehicles currently in inventory and new trade ins having to be stored until at least the fall. I have both an ILX and RDX and both are part of the recall. Stop sales on new 2016's are very few so little to no impact in our dealership.

Ian Andrews

I should add as an owner of two Acura's with the Takata air bags i'm not one bit concerned. I have managed to survive accidents in vehicles without airbags and have lived through the ownership of numerous vehicles with out a blind spot warning system and VSA. Honda and Acura are in the process of testing the replacement parts so the delay is necessary to make sure they get it right.

5 Acuras

iTrader: (1)

Let's see how cooperative dealers are going to be re: supplying loaner or rental cars as promised in this document: | Honda Airbag Info


Plus, if they are doing 24K repairs/day on vehicles in the US, what else are the service departments doing? Has anyone been offered a deal on a non-affected replacement vehicle, in exchange for your vehicle, rather than being offered a long term loaner/rental vehicle?

Ian Andrews

I presume the loaner program applies to when the vehicle is in getting the repair. Dealership will not have resources to lend you and everyone else a vehicle for the summer.

5 Acuras

iTrader: (1)

Called my dealer after confirming mine was in the recall, dealer said come right in and offered a rental car up to $50/day or excellent deals on 2016 vehicles not affected by the recall. They didn't expect to have the replacement parts until summer yet they are ready to provide rental cars until then.

Reimroc

The list of affected Acuras in Canada is available on the Transport Canada website:
Motor Vehicle Safety Recalls Database
At least my 2016 RDX isn't there...

yrmed

I wish I was offered a purchase option. I'm currently leasing a '15 RDX with the recall. The dealer gave me a 2016 MDX to drive...but I don't know for how long. I would rather go into the dealership and tell them to keep the RDX and sell me an MDX.

I went as far as reading my leasing agreement, and obviously it is all centered around protecting Acura from any claims. But there is a portion where it talks about the Lessor determining that the car is unsafe to use, and it refers from that section to a section about defaulting on leases. Essentially, it states that Acura can let people out of their lease due to mechanical/technical faults with the vehicle, but at their discretion. How do I entice the dealer to get me out of my lease (I'm at 12 of 36 months) and sell me a 2016 MDX. Ideally, I would be able to terminate the RDX lease, pick up a 2016 MDX without paying any of the dealer doc fees/admin fees because I just paid them last year. I feel like that portion Acura should cover.

I thought it would be as simple as going in and telling them I want to buy another car off of their lot...but it seems like it's not a sweet enough offer, considering the situation.

Puma Jim

Well checked my 2016 RDX again and still no change - not affected

Ian Andrews

Acura Canada has yet to announce a loaner program however I would welcome a trade in program on a replacement Acura.

ceb

I told you how to do it already - write Acura corporate.


This has nothing to do with what it says in your lease agreement - although you can quote that paragraph about "unsafe" if there is one.


The lease agreement talks about your responsibilities on a normal day and if you want to cancel "just because" then you're on the hook for the remaining payments. The lease agreement can be modified by both parties at any time. Acura often runs a "pull ahead" program where you can trade your car in a few months early because they need to move inventory or they just want to keep you from leaving Acura Financial.


Dealers can't sell cars with open recalls. Take your car to a different dealership (Honda, MB, BMW, whatever) and try to trade it in. Use their "We have to lowball your trade because it will sit on our lot for a half year" in your letter to Acura.


I suspect that the first 50 (100, 200, 300 whatever) customers who write a compelling letter to Acura will get a positive response from Acura.


Clearly define the issue and be very clear about what you want them to do. Be realistic in your request and you'll have success. Stay away from emotional drivel (I'm afraid that the airbag will explode in my dog's face and get blood and hair all over my light leather seats) or things that are immaterial (Takata is an evil company). Stick to facts - unsafe, recall, not able to trade in, loss of value in the future - but you like the car and would like a replacement. You can mention that the cost of a loaner most likely is higher than any costs of putting you in a new car.


A registered letter - not an email or a phone call.


Good luck.

snorf

Could not have said it better myself. Excellent advice.

ceb

The dealership doesn't care. They are charging the cost of the loaner to Acura. Acura cares. They are absorbing those costs and waiting for the lawsuits to come in. The people who act now will get something now - the people who wait will get a replaced airbag later this year.

Comfy

I found that my car is involved in the recall. Gave a call to dealer. They simply retorted that they will let me know when the parts are manufactured and available. Called Acura client relations but all they did was give me a case number and a promise that someone will call me back in a few days. May be I should send a letter too .