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Man I have been reading the thread over and over and cant come up with a solution to put the damper on I want to try goredcar way but looks ghetto and might take some more work. I want to lean towards Louie11 but I have a stock STB man this is more diffiscult then I expected.Any suggestions would help greatly!
On the 6speed you have a stock damper on the back and front of the block. I don’t know about you guys with the auto. It would be slightly more difficult to fabricate but you would have to fab one for the back and front of the block. These stock dampers I speak of are shit and the wheel hop is ridiculous. I am going to see what just one does.
We'll see if it holds. I'm not a structural engineer so I don't know what 1/8" steel can withstand at a certain width. I might be making them out of 1/4" just for the hell of it. I just made it to do what is needed and at parrall lines to the engine movement. I just didn't like the crazy angles you guys were running the dampner at. So far I took it off once and it hasn't even flexed a slight bit. Not like that guys on the tsx forum. I will be going to Benson soon to get a dyno so I can watch it in action and see what type of stress is being put on it at load.
I had to go and look at mine again to really see if the alignment was off by that much Louie. In the horozontal plane it is off by maybe 5 degrees. Not crazy in my book...
I do like your creative idea of using a bracket on the PS pump end though... and even though I am not a mechanical engineer, I think that your bracket with 1/8 steel should be plenty strong enough.
I had to go and look at mine again to really see if the alignment was off by that much Louie. In the horozontal plane it is off by maybe 5 degrees. Not crazy in my book....
Sorry, Goredcar I wasn't trying to insult your's or o2av6's setup. Maybe using the word crazy was the wrong word to use. By both of your pictures it just looked like it would be too much of an angle compared to the movement of the engine. I did alittle drawing to show the varing degrees. Mine is the red, 02av6 is the yellow and yours is the green. Yours I had to guess at since yours is on the STB which the rear mounting point is higher. When I had to draw these the degree for 02av6 was 20 degrees and yours was 27. Remember I'm not saying this is bad, I have no clue. I just rather have things be aligned with each other to be safe thats all. Since I don't know the long or short term effects this might have if any. All of us are just backyard inventors trying to make our cars better and faster when big companys won't.
Louie... no offence taken. We are all working towards the same goals... and that is faster and better handling cars. I see this as a process of experimentation and as I said before, I really like your idea to use a bracket on the PS pump end to level out the dampner... from a physics point of view this has to be better. Whether this is measurable or noticable... I have no idea. I do notice that my wheel hop problem has almost totally dissapeared... You noticed the same thing, so I would guess we both got what we were looking for in results.
I would still like a drawing of you design... it's very innovative!
When I go to the dyno next week or the week after I was planning to do a dyno with it on and off and hopefully video tape the movement of the engine and dampner at load. So when I take it off for that I shall trace both brackets.
I have often though about doing a dyno... and I might this fall... I just find it depressing that with a 6MT/I/H/E/P I can only expect in the vicinity of 250. I would be interested to see what numbers you get and if there is any measurable difference with the dampner.
I buddy of mine races in the stock category and he has a ford 1/2 ton with a 6 cylinder... and he dynos 286. I would hate to have to tell him that my CL only got 240 or 250...
I have often though about doing a dyno... and I might this fall... I just find it depressing that with a 6MT/I/H/E/P I can only expect in the vicinity of 250. I would be interested to see what numbers you get and if there is any measurable difference with the dampner.
I wish I would see 240 -250. I have dynoed my car already with all the same mods and only got 215hp and 189tq. It was a 80 degree day and I had to first drive 30mins to get there.
I have really not inticipated this but its dame hard I cant make a bracket. I have a stock bar so my plan is get a neuspeed bar it seems more easier. So I think im holding off the plan to do it again until I get the neuspeed dame so is anyone selling a STB bar???
I wish I would see 240 -250. I have dynoed my car already with all the same mods and only got 215hp and 189tq. It was a 80 degree day and I had to first drive 30mins to get there.
Nice 02av6! Did Cliff make that one for you too?
I guess that there is individual variation between different cars, but you should be seeing at least 220 at the wheels with I/H. What are you running for suspension? Sometimes soft springs / shock scan be a source of poor power transfer. The comptech site has some dyno graphs... this one is without the intake (or UR pulleys) and it is showing 220HP. http://www.comptechusa.com/store/med...ls6auto_sc.pdf
The 6MT will dyno a bit higher as it does not have as much loss through the transmission. The comptech dynos show a stock 6MT with 220, and with H/I/E at 249. http://www.comptechusa.com/store/med...cls6spd_sc.pdf The UR pulleys are supposed to add in the vicinity of 8-10HP, so I was hoping for 250 or slightly better... I guess I will have to go and have it measured.
I wish I would see 240 -250. I have dynoed my car already with all the same mods and only got 215hp and 189tq. It was a 80 degree day and I had to first drive 30mins to get there.
Nice 02av6! Did Cliff make that one for you too?
Garage Kwai has a very conservative Dynojet comparing to others and I heard many times reads similar numbers to Mustang dyno. Try going to AMS and you'll get the better numbers. Who knows, I might get 340whp+ on a different Dynojet and when corrected to STD I might see even better numbers. IMO, it's for bragging rights, what's important is how your car performs on the track and the powerband curve. I remember Vishnu (EVO/STi and now BMW 335i tuner) said that STD reads more accurately and consistant than SAE on Dynojet.
And yes Cliff made the new one too. I took him for a while to find the template.
And btw, no offense but he agreed with me that your design is weak when I showed him your pics this past Friday. The week spots are indicated by red arrows yet the anchor bracket used is not a safe mounting point.
However, again with your current numbers it might serve you well until you get a serious power, so it's all good
02AV6 is your new bracket anchored to the firewall or am I imagining things in the picture? It look like after it makes the bend that the damper connects to it carries on to the firewall? You mention "some minor vibration"... so is this noise audible in the cabin?
Did you change out the actual damper unit? I think that your last one was blue wasn't it? If this one better or are the dampers the same.
Sorry for the 20 questions... just trying to better understand.
I decided to grind alittle more off the STB bracket and I moved the mounting point of the Dampner on the PS bracket. Now the Dampner is clearly not touching anything metal anymore. I'm going to Wisconsin this weekend so it will be a good test to see if I eliminated the noise completly. I will update on monday!
02AV6 is your new bracket anchored to the firewall or am I imagining things in the picture? It look like after it makes the bend that the damper connects to it carries on to the firewall? You mention "some minor vibration"... so is this noise audible in the cabin?
Did you change out the actual damper unit? I think that your last one was blue wasn't it? If this one better or are the dampers the same.
Sorry for the 20 questions... just trying to better understand.
No it's visual confusion not attached to firewall. Not much noise just the car shakes more than before but very minor to consider it's annoying.
And its original unit purchased on ebay as stated in post 1. You confused with first blue unit as it was an example with attached pic and it comes in different colors. I chose the silver one.
As many concerned that the other end sits close to P/S pulley it proved already on my vehicle that there is NO issue whatsoever:
1. It doesn't move forward. The engine rocks back with a load, so there is no way it will touch the P/S belt, yet the shock tower bracket works in both way and prevents any movement.
2. The P/S bracket used is extremely strong and it permanently attached to the engine (to rear cyl. head to be specifically) unlike the upper (anchor) bracket as some used which can be easily rock back and forth with engine load.
Thanks 02AV6... that helps sort out the visual confusion. I must say that your engine bay looks so clean that it puts us all to shame. Even your strut tower bolts look so shiny and new.
BTW I notice that you have some form of electronic control on your struts. I assume that you can remotely control the stiffness. Nice! I have to pull my back seat to adjust my back ones.
As far electronic control I'm utilizing EDFC on Tein-SS coilovers with several settings:
1. Daily driver with a softest settings
2. Racing stiff setup.
YES SIRRRRRR! My car is driven year round and the chicago winters are harsch. This will be the fourth winter with the teins. If you think that is bad you should see the rest, now thats OMG!
Some thought I would bend or break the custom brackets I made. Instead I bent the engine hoist anchor.
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so now I had to make a new bracket and go with 02av6 and goredcar anchor point. I've found that this setup has more PS noise than my way, but still good. I wish us AT could get the same dampner set up as the MT guys. What jproy did is great.
Next I'm going to remove the engine hoist flange and bolt my original bracket to the PS and to the point where the hoist anchor did. I didn't know that these were two seperate pieces at first. Until I bent it and looked at 02av6's pics he posted earlier in this thread.
I cringe when people talk about these so called engine torque dampers, it's basically a mini motor mount, and i cringe cause man these can really put a stress on the mounting points and barely having any motion back and forth just makes me cringe when i think about the stress it puts on the mounting spots, so maybe get a real damper like a real shock maybe something that was actually designed to work for engine torque damping like the mercedes torque shock dampers, i'll probably get two or three sometime in the future and attach some spherical bearings on the threaded ends and fab some brackets up, and depending on the location where it's more even and balanced after i study the locations of the stock mounts, and find out where there needs to be more motion control and put into account of if it's practical and if it doesn't get in the way, maybe if somebodies really bored they should do this before i do lol.
09-27-2006, 07:41 PM
It's all good
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