crimsonviel

Why is it so heavy in the front? What does it? Outside of the engine/tranny. I mean there are other cars you could put this drive train in that would result in so much less weight right? I always get flak from my friend for it... A 2 door tank, he calls it..his grand Prix 4 Dr wieghs nearly the same he says..Christ..

What options are there outside of a CF hood and lighter pulleys or just pulling the whole front dash for dropping weight in the front?

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

You should check out my thread, RP's, curtwills, or 2 3Rd gen tl threads by innacurate aND vill0169. My CL weighs under 2700 lbs. Removed over 800 lbs so far and could still remove another 100-200 if desired.

CL front bumper beam is thick heavy Gauge steel that weighs around 19 lbs. Then Acura for some stupid reason (NVH most likely) adds a 7.5 lb dumbell on top. Even newer civics have aluminum bumper beams. After "swiss cheesing mine, got it down to 11 lbs.

Basically the steel used on CL doors hood, body, etc is much thicker Gauge then say my Ford Focus. My Focus uses more plastic parts where the CL uses more metal/steel. The CL has extra weight for NVH reduction(weights added and lots of sound deadener). Acura wanted this to be luxury/sporty, but took trying to be luxury too far. Things like a check valve in slave cylinder and a damper for clutch.

Good news is there is over 1000 lbs of weight that can be removed, unlike a miata where you'd be lucky to remove 100-200 lbs. There is a good car hidden under all that blubber, just need to go on a diet.

Don't worry about getting flak from a grand prix owner, those things are pieces of crap. If anyone owns a grand prix sorry, but I hate those things.

Grand Prix weighs as much or more than CL with a V6 engine and fwd. 3.8l V6 makes only 200hp, weaksauce. That thing is a tank, whether it is 2 or 4 doors makes no difference. 4 door TL weighs same as 2 door CL.

crimsonviel

That was a great response! Very informative thank you! Is there any chance you could give me the links to those threads you mentioned? I don't know that I could find them on my own.

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

Just search for threads started by those users

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I'll post links later when get home.

YeuEmMaiMai

It's a entry level luxury car that could (at the time) hand a BMW 3 series it's rear end in terms of raw performance. It is built to be comfortable and quiet with no vibrations.

Despite what the others here tell you, there will be consequences for removing that weight and the biggest one is noise and if you start cutting into the structure you will compromise safety.

you can lighten up the pulleys, use a smaller battery, remove the spare, remove engine and other bay covers

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I find my completely gutted cl less annoying than when it had full interior. Same with my full interior Focus ST.

With full interior both cars are rattle boxes, especially in cold weather.

My gutted CL has absolutely 0 rattles. You can hear engine and exhaust better. You can hear more tire and wind noise, but that doesn't bother me(prefer it this way for performance driving). What bothers me is rattles, which you get with plastic interiors. Without plastic there are no rattles.

YeuEmMaiMai

^ you are so full of yourself it isn't even funny. I have ZERO rattles in my CLS even after 15 years and 140K miles....

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

What drugs are you on? So just cause you think your CL is rattle free, it means all other cars are rattle free? What a stupid and defensive post.

Love how people hate you if your opinion is different than theirs. Social media has made everyone mentally retarded.

Biggest consequence from removing weight is not added noise, it is called added enjoyment.

You probably prefer your women like your cars, bloated fat pigs.

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

wow

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Yea. I need to just stick to posting in my own thread or not at all. Try to help people, answer any questions I get, and post DIY and build thread.

Rarely ever get a thank you for my help, but always get comments about how I am what is wrong with this forum. Constantly insulted on my looks and called a d-bag. Constantly told I don't contribute to this forum, etc.

People hate me for my opinions on cars and because I am an atheist. Atheists are really hated. More so than gays, blacks, transgender, etc. None of my friends know I am atheist, but ppl on here know and hate me for it.

No matter what I post, yeamaimaitaitai has to insult me. He is so pathetic he has a personal vendetta against me. Talk about petty.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

cars in general have gotten heavier full of safety equipment and amenities.

its very common for cars to be 3400-4000lbs now a days.

so, thats why your 2nd gen CL type-S is so heavy

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

True, but front wheel drive cars should be lighter. That is the advantage of fwd. You can package cars smaller, be lighter, and lose less power through drivetrain.

The CL should have been closer to 3000-3200 stock, not 3500.

I will elaborate on why CL is so heavy.

CL was a 30k car when new. Because of this Acura saved money by not using much aluminum at all, besides the engine.

Bumper beams are thick and heavy steel instead of aluminum on most cars even including civics.

Our subframes are steel instead of aluminum.

Oem headers, front lower control arms, shock forks, knuckles, etc. are cast iron. Cast Iron is heavy as hell.

Acura used thick gauge steel sheet metal instead of thinner gauge steel or aluminum.

Acura added weights to bumper beams, subframes, and clutch thinking that would help nvh.

CL has a heavy moonroof and moonroof frame.

The Oem torque dampers are heavy as hell.

Acura uses lots of steel brackets, even for wiring.

The Dead Pedal is heavy thick steel.

There is a lot of extra sheet metal that can be cut away.

Basically Acura did not take any consideration into making the car or its parts light, seems they thought heavier meant more luxurious.

Even windshield glass on my Acura is thicker than my Ford.

Acura uses thick heavy skeletons on roof, hood and trunk.

When I wash my Ford, I have to use very little pressure because the panels pop in and out.

CL have never had a panel pop in and out until I removed skeleton from hood. Hood still functions fine without skeleton. My ford hood doesn't have skeleton.

Have removed wiper systems from both my Acura and Ford and the Acura wiper system is twice as heavy.

Newer Acura have magnesium valve covers, the CL has steel covers. Newer Acuras have magnesium IM, the CL is aluminum.

Acura CL rear cast iron knuckle weighs 25 lbs. The 2nd Gen tsx has aluminum rear knuckle that weighs 15 lbs.

CL uses heavy cast iron parts for brake caliper brackets and brake calipers.

Basically CL is a tank.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^yes, safety and amenity items made ALL cars porkier.

3400-3900lbs is the norm

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I would not blame the CL being heavy on safety features, especially considering its age. Newer cars have many more air bag bandaid devices and are still much lighter than CL.

Forgot to mention the CL front seats are also really heavy. Driver seat is like 70 lbs, whereas my Recaro seat is 20 lbs.

CL uses lots of heavy tar sound deadener and also thick heavy foam behind dash. Even the carpeting is heavy and weighs over 20 lbs.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^you created a list that displays several safety features

this is the norm. cars are 3400-3900lbs because of safety features and cool amenities

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I just looked through my list and see NO safety features. What exactly do you mean.

Using steel bumper beams over aluminum is not a safety feature. It is just adding unneeded weight. Aluminum bumper beams actually work better than steel for their intended purpose.

The CL is 15 years old and doesn't have many amenities. My CL has no Navigation, etc. It has a radio and a few speakers, but so do all cars.

The speakers, amp, etc are typical weight's for other cars.

The CL is not heavy because of air bags, all cars run those.

The CL is heavy because of materials used and their thickness, not safety or amenities.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

its a safety feature no matter what you think is lighter, brian...
this car is a luxury coupe.
it was built in mind with LUXURY first.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I understand that you are a modifier, as am I, Brian.
but a stock CL is a stock CL.
its heavy

Honda/Acura built it that way ON purpose

Oldsman71

iTrader: (1)

I like the fact my CL was built with "Thicker" and "Heavier" parts. The way idiots in my town drive, I might actually survive if one of them hits me. From a physics standpoint it takes additional force to bend additional mass of the same substance.

AMSCLS

I am knew to the board, but why would one want to remove so much weight on a CL, I look as my CLS as my nice quick daily. All the added weight was for safety. Someone mention price of the car being 30k in 2003 which was a decent amount of money back then. Being FWD and light doesn't have anything to do with performance, if you wanting to lose weight on a car, whats the reason? For tracking, drag, or just personal?

hitek9

Just adding some info, the 2nd and 3rd gen tl curb weight is around the same, and the 1rst gen tsx is lighter compared to our cl's. I think 3100-3200 should have been the ideal weight

JarrettLauderdale

Not all of us want to remove the weight, we just recognize it as being heavier than it needs to be for what it is. Weight removal is the ultimate modification. It provides better acceleration, lower RPMs at cruising, more stable handling, better braking, better fuel economy and less wear on items like the brakes and clutch. The only thing it isn't good for is NVH and sometimes safety. Even then, the safety element depends on what weight was removed. If the weight that was removed was non-structural, then it has only accounted for better braking and not negatively affected safety at all.

And I don't agree that this car is fast in stock form. I can feel how heavy it is when pressing the gas. I even have Koni yellow shocks, H&R Race springs and a Progress24mm bar to help carry the weight better. It's an improvement, for sure, but in a straight line this thing feels like the tires are made of molasses.

Oldsman71

iTrader: (1)

The term "fast" is so relative. By today's standards the CL is not fast. However, most run of the mill late 60's and early 70's muscle cars ran mid 14 to low 15 second quarter miles. That was considered "fast" at the time. Those cars typically weighed around 3800 lbs and had the aerodynamics of a brick. I guess my point is that it depends on your frame of reference. Now that I'm older, a "slow" 14 second stocker (mostly) gets me around just fine.

AMSCLS

Fast in the sense that I can pass many cars with little effort, maybe not as fast as a GTR. The V6 in my car is very lively and loves to be rev, it could be the 60,000 miles the car has that helps but I feel its fast. For my liking this car feels heavy, too much understeer, and like a pig, wider tires 17x8(9) maybe RS3 compound, NS400 brake pads could help with that, coilovers with 10k springs to keep the semi luxury ride. For performance if I had a wish list a set of comptech headers to go with my comptech exhaust, the S/C kit from comptech and some sort of tuning option aside emanage. I wouldn't say I street race theses cars but put WRX 2009-10, Mustang V6, FRS, BMW 330 in the kill box, I would admit this wasn't from a dead stop the CLS spins the tires from first to third. Coming from a 2006 S2000 that tracked the often the the torque of this car is amazing, not a nimble car but a fun one and enjoying the ownership of CLS.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Take a stock Acura TL or CL to an autocross and see how you do. Basically every other car is better than the CL stock. Had a 3.2 Stock TL at autocross yesterday and he was 2nd slowest driver out of 75. I beat him by 19 seconds. A Honda insight is faster, I know, I autocross with one.

Acura builds it's cars to understeer horribly. They could learn from Ford. Steering in Acura requires you to turn the wheel twice as much as in Focus ST.

Focus ST is easy mode with torque vectoring brakes. No need to trail brake or left foot brake.

My modded Cl is a lot harder to drive and be consistent with.

Modding a CL or TL is an act of futility. Would be better off taking out drive train and installing it in something else like a miata, MR2, S2000, NSX, or Ariel Atom replica.

AMSCLS

For me I don't like autocross'ing. I remember I took my S2000 to the Windy City Miata club, at the time KW V3 suspension RE-11s(fresh rubber), Club Racer front pads did amazing at the Auto Bahn a week before. But I got beat by an auto Ford Taurus that a teenage girl was driving. Its funny because I blow right pass 996 turbo, C6 Z06,other fast cars on larger tracks. Most FWD understeer unless a performance model like you mention. Acura did make a well balance car the Type R had little understeer, and you can make any FWD more balanced reducing understeer. The Type S is 13 years old, so I take it with a grain of salt, I know there are cars being built that can out handle or perform the Type S, but I also know that the platform has potential as what you done Brian. We can help the performance, we can balance the car better, and still be cheaper then a new Civic Si circa 2015 or new Focus ST.