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Good morning all. I've finished the car a while back and taking it on a track attack day. Not looking for race times but any race prep our cars would need.
The track it's called the firm in stake fl. I know it very well from racing other cars. Unfortunately cracked a hub and rims on last timed trial day on other car.
I've been to the track many times, first time in a somewhat altered but stock Acura not set up for racing. I'm worried that I'll find out the hard way something that doesn't happen during spirited driving will happen on track.
Wondering if there's anything going to break by racing it, something weak in our cars that I can plan for?
IE: went off track in Lambo and realized the hubs break very easily.
Went off track in Ferrari and had to spend three hours pulling out rocks. Broke back mountain
honestly, the only real things you need to worry about are:
1. Clean and fresh brake fluid. Have you bled your brakes before? It's actually pretty easy and once you do it once, you'll never stress about doing it again.
2. New brake pads. You will be eating through pads. Though, you may also suffer overheating brakes. No worries. This is where the new brake fluid comes into play, and also, just take a brake between events. Let your car chill as much as possible. Brake fade sucks.
3. Good tires. They don't have to be new. Just keep in mind that if you're not using a "Ultra high performance" tire, they will likely be your limiting factor. It's not the end of the world because it will still allow you to learn plenty about your car and your driving. It's better to drive slower but properly, than fast and being all over the place. Also, you'll be eating tread, so just be cognisant of the costs to track.
That's the basics of what you need. Oh, and a helmet. Other than that, you should be good to go. Make sure your car isn't leaking stuff and otherwise in good shape for the track and you shouldn't have any problems. Make sure to learn and make sure to have fun!!
honestly, the only real things you need to worry about are:
1. Clean and fresh brake fluid. Have you bled your brakes before? It's actually pretty easy and once you do it once, you'll never stress about doing it again.
2. New brake pads. You will be eating through pads. Though, you may also suffer overheating brakes. No worries. This is where the new brake fluid comes into play, and also, just take a brake between events. Let your car chill as much as possible. Brake fade sucks.
3. Good tires. They don't have to be new. Just keep in mind that if you're not using a "Ultra high performance" tire, they will likely be your limiting factor. It's not the end of the world because it will still allow you to learn plenty about your car and your driving. It's better to drive slower but properly, than fast and being all over the place. Also, you'll be eating tread, so just be cognisant of the costs to track.
That's the basics of what you need. Oh, and a helmet. Other than that, you should be good to go. Make sure your car isn't leaking stuff and otherwise in good shape for the track and you shouldn't have any problems. Make sure to learn and make sure to have fun!!
Thanks for heads up. All good on those points, Brembo fronts, new tires, nothing leaking (yet). I've got several matching helmets, shoes, neck, gloves from other cars that I usually track so good there too.
I'm curious how a fwd stock car will handle the track. First understeer experience on short track.
Was hoping someone had tracked theirs enough to know the fail points.
Hey Lance, nice to see you posting again. Main thing is just be safe and have fun.
Overall the CL is a rock solid track car. Nothing to really worry about breaking. Our suspension parts and hubs are cast iron, nothing will break them. Never broken a single part on my car in over 14 years and I have gone off track before.
Most important items are brakes and tires. I'd suggest 200 Tread summer tires. You can run all-seasons, but track will shred them up fast. The RE-71R are great autocross tires(run them on both my vehicles), but they wont last long on track. I am actually looking into a set of new Star Spec 3 of RS4's for track.
For brakes you really only need better pads and dot 4 fluid. Bleed brakes before event. Worst feeling ever is hitting brakes and having nothing happen, experienced that once.
For suspension I do like looking over parts before event and checking bushings. With all work you did, probably not issue.
Bring extra fluids like oil, brake fluid, etc. Check oil level before going on track. Having some sort of obd2 device to scan and reset engine codes is nice to have also.
I'd recommend getting adjustable suspension parts so you can do custom alignment. Will help with cornering and tires won't wear as fast.
Having ability to see water temp, oil pressure, oil temp, etc is nice to have but not necessary. Oil cooler, PS cooler, etc aren't really required for 20 minute sessions.
The CL does understeer a lot in stock form, so just expect that.
Forgot 2 things. I have broken 1 part, an axle. It happened launching car on street and was from over 10 years of corrosion causing shaft to snap under vibration damper.
Only other issue was warping rotors with stock calipers and rotors.
Thanks Brian. I knew you would give the perfect advice.
I'll be bringing fluids from yours and others advice.
What do you recommend for a good tire for racing? Best I can find is 280 softness from a Pirelli tire, the exact same model tire on my Lambo, which rides like a wagon from the 1800's.
Another point, I plan on running 40-50 laps per session vs 20 laps in an abusive exotic.
A/C, comfy seat, 2x12 inch JL subs and a really loud stereo system with about 120 hard rock songs in a somewhat slow speed of a v6. I've planned that the new brembo drilled front/slotted back brakes will need to be replaced from 300+ laps on the track.
If I have brake failure, should I bring bleeders/rotor/pad to track or just toe home? (About 200m)
Forgot 2 things. I have broken 1 part, an axle. It happened launching car on street and was from over 10 years of corrosion causing shaft to snap under vibration damper.
Only other issue was warping rotors with stock calipers and rotors.
If I had trailer would bring all my tools, but atm I just bring what I can fit in car.
RE71R is great tire, but it is basically an R-Comp tire. It will only last few track days. It just depends on whether the extra second per lap is worth changing tires way more often. My Dunlop star spec 2's are also 200 tread but would last 2-3 times longer than RE71R.
Never raced car at stock weight so not sure how fast your brakes will wear or how aggressive you brake. Checking pad material before an event is a good idea. Seems like my pads last a long time and never had to replace a rotor from failure besides when car was new and warped rotors. Have no experience with carbon ceramic brakes.
The axles are not weak, they are actually very good. I just had issue of 10 years of Chicago area winter salt getting under vibration damper and rusting the steal. Axle snapped right under damper. If your axles are newer and don't see salt then no worries. On my new axles just ran beads of silicone along damper edges to avoid future corrosion.
One mistake I made was installing same track pads on rear calipers as front. You typically want less aggressive pad on rear. This caused some movement in rear of my car under braking. Not best feeling having car moving under braking and having to correct with steering.
One mistake I made was installing same track pads on rear calipers as front. You typically want less aggressive pad on rear. This caused some movement in rear of my car under braking. Not best feeling having car moving under braking and having to correct with steering.
Great advice. I believe I used stop tech in back, Brembo in front I think on your suggestion (or someone's on this forum). Brakes are new <1000m. Tires are about 4 months old <3000m.
I'll keep an eye out for brake fade since you brought up a good point about how heavy my car is vs a car like yours. I've already ordered new pass from tirerack. On the street I use the Bridgestone 970AS since they're comfortable and great in the rain. RE71's are a new try for me since I am not a fan of the Pirelli.
I'll research the Dunlop and see if I can get in stock 215/50 size.
Car is all new and I'm in Florida so I'm glad the axle isn't an issue.
Do you have a better option than Brembo for back brakes? I'm in stock 17 inch rims so my choices were limited.
The suspension is mostly upgraded Ingall/eibach per the walk through on this forum. The ingall is stiff and the bushings squeak a bit from being larger. The thickness of ingall is about double vs stock but ride quality changed, so my outers are back to stock, inners stayed ingall.
Carbon ceramic brakes are the best upgrade on short tracks. Best money I've spent on a race car. On a 1.6m track I can stretch out straightaways to 30-50mph faster than a Porsche.
My track time differences
Ferrari 458 no carbon ceramic = 1:20'ish
Lambo Gallardo full carbon ceramic = 1:14'ish
Subaru WRX provided by track with front carbon = 1:12'ish
The 458 was the quickest of the 3 btw. Fastest lap time was 1:16 coming in hot to the pits, still pales in comparison to carbon ceramic.
I have done 3 track days in my 03CLS 6 speed. The first time the car was pretty much stock on all season tires with about 5000 miles on them and I shredded them (they were done). I used EBC Red pads and DOT4 fluid. A lot of fun, but for the second event I added new motor mounts, sway bars, and Bridgestone G-Force Comp 2's (I believe 340 tread). Those made a large difference. For the third event I upgraded the front rotors and went to 2 piston calipers along with EBC Yellow pads. The car has performed flawlessly. Planning to run a couple events this year with the same setup. Personally I cannot justify going further with this car as I just want to enjoy it for what it is. Will maybe go to a 200 tread tire once mine wear out.
I also broke a front axle due to age/rust while shifting into 2nd during a spirited acceleration on the street.
The Dunlop ZII Star Specs probably were my favorite tire, but they are old news now as far as autocross. Can't be competitive running them. Hankook RS3 are another good choice.
The RE71R are great, but make lot more noise than ZII did and wear at least twice as fast. I did end up heat cycling my ZII before they were fully worn though.
I'm waiting for release and reviews of Dunlop ZIII and Hankook RS4 before making my next tire purchase.
Believe I ran 235 tires on stock rims.
Not much is needed in rear as far as braking goes. Lines, pads, fluid, rotors if needed. I plan to switch my rear track pads for street pads this year.
Not really a fan of Ingalls. OEM bushings are better quality, but they do offer adjustment. I use mostly Hardrace parts. They are great but pricey.
Would be interesting to see how long OEM motor mounts last on track.
The Dunlop ZII Star Specs probably were my favorite tire, but they are old news now as far as autocross. Can't be competitive running them. Hankook RS3 are another good choice.
The RE71R are great, but make lot more noise than ZII did and wear at least twice as fast. I did end up heat cycling my ZII before they were fully worn though.
I'm waiting for release and reviews of Dunlop ZIII and Hankook RS4 before making my next tire purchase.
Believe I ran 235 tires on stock rims.
Not much is needed in rear as far as braking goes. Lines, pads, fluid, rotors if needed. I plan to switch my rear track pads for street pads this year.
Not really a fan of Ingalls. OEM bushings are better quality, but they do offer adjustment. I use mostly Hardrace parts. They are great but pricey.
Would be interesting to see how long OEM motor mounts last on track.
Originally Posted by Ponto
I have done 3 track days in my 03CLS 6 speed. The first time the car was pretty much stock on all season tires with about 5000 miles on them and I shredded them (they were done). I used EBC Red pads and DOT4 fluid. A lot of fun, but for the second event I added new motor mounts, sway bars, and Bridgestone G-Force Comp 2's (I believe 340 tread). Those made a large difference. For the third event I upgraded the front rotors and went to 2 piston calipers along with EBC Yellow pads.
I also broke a front axle due to age/rust while shifting into 2nd during a spirited acceleration on the street.
Looks like you're second person with the axle issue.
Did you change out the rims to accommodate the calipers?
The brakes for daily driver are great, but on the track I expect fade, just not sure when. I'll check out ebc yellows for on track set up then swap back to Brembo reds for quiet and comfort.
The Dunlop ZII Star Specs probably were my favorite tire, but they are old news now as far as autocross. Can't be competitive running them. Hankook RS3 are another good choice.
The RE71R are great, but make lot more noise than ZII did and wear at least twice as fast. I did end up heat cycling my ZII before they were fully worn though.
I'm waiting for release and reviews of Dunlop ZIII and Hankook RS4 before making my next tire purchase.
Not really a fan of Ingalls. OEM bushings are better quality, but they do offer adjustment. I use mostly Hardrace parts. They are great but pricey.
Would be interesting to see how long OEM motor mounts last on track.
Thanks for advice. I'm a bit confused. If you had the luxury of wasting money, which tires would you buy?
I was thinking of just buying another 4 rims and making a racing set but I only know about Pirelli and Bridgestone.
Motor mounts are new, should I have them replaced after a few track days?
I've not heard of "hardrace" brand. Should I swap to those if I want to track often then swap back to stock/ingall for regular driving?
I'm not looking to be competitive, just want to enjoy track days with minimal damage, or be aware of what damage could be caused on our cars. It's an automatic so I doubt I'll be at redline even half the time. Most of the track I'll be in 2nd/3rd and 4th maybe on one of the straights to avoid engine wear/tear.
Last time I did an automatic on the track it was so easy but slow. I'm ok with slow. I have other cars for that sort of fun, just worried about damage my favorite car.
For motor mounts and suspension parts I would just check them periodically for play/tears in rubber and replace if needed.
I run 3 torque dampers to help support engine and make mounts last longer. My XLR8 mounts are still fine after many years of hard driving.
If you go with Hardrace, there would be no reason to swap back to oem. Hardrace parts are fine on street. I can provide info and links for purchasing if you need.
If you don't mind swapping tires often RE71R are great. Also a good choice if you have extra set of wheels. My tire purchases are based more on autocross than track. I'm sure there are many other great tires. BFG Rivals are another good tire. Any of tires I mentioned should be great. Tire rack has good reviews and comparisons.
Didn't realize your car was an automatic. That would be my biggest concern. I can't really help you in that department.
I sold Ponto my Legend 2 Piston Calipers. They should clear rims, unlike rl, stoptech, etc. Not sure if you will really see improved braking, but I think 2 piston vs stock 1 piston might help some with warping rotors. You can just do pads and fluid, then upgrade more if feel need.
For motor mounts and suspension parts I would just check them periodically for play/tears in rubber and replace if needed.
I run 3 torque dampers to help support engine and make mounts last longer. My XLR8 mounts are still fine after many years of hard driving.
If you go with Hardrace, there would be no reason to swap back to oem. Hardrace parts are fine on street. I can provide info and links for purchasing if you need.
If you don't mind swapping tires often RE71R are great. Also a good choice if you have extra set of wheels. My tire purchases are based more on autocross than track. I'm sure there are many other great tires. BFG Rivals are another good tire. Any of tires I mentioned should be great. Tire rack has good reviews and comparisons.
Didn't realize your car was an automatic. That would be my biggest concern. I can't really help you in that department.
I sold Ponto my Legend 2 Piston Calipers. They should clear rims, unlike rl, stoptech, etc. Not sure if you will really see improved braking, but I think 2 piston vs stock 1 piston might help some with warping rotors. You can just do pads and fluid, then upgrade more if feel need.
I will definitely look at ordering hardrace and have Acura replace all my motor mounts while they have it.
The engine/tranny ran great, brakes and tires.. Well, imagine taking a stock car and adding about 2-300lbs of crap. Actually passed people but mostly was passed by the corvette club that showed up together. Luckily us regulars got the green sticker so we got an extra run. Overall about 3 hours on the track, 3x25 minute sessions and all afternoon in free for all until the brakes lost all pressure in a 80mph turn... I never came off even when I was screeching, I just cranked up the metallica louder...
Good stuff, cheap repairs, worth every penny of enjoyment.
Is that front brake caliper piston fused to the pad?
You really did have a good time!
Yes. Not only was there no pad, there was hardly any metal left. No brake pressure as the boot melted. I took my friends car up to auto zone, 54 bucks for a caliper and 20 bucks for pads allowed us to drive back to Clearwater straight to the dealer.
I wonder if I can claim warranty since I just did the brakes? :P
(Honestly Mr dealer, I was going to church and had to stop frequently. No sir, I don't know how all that scoring in the rotors happened)
Yes. Not only was there no pad, there was hardly any metal left. No brake pressure as the boot melted. I took my friends car up to auto zone, 54 bucks for a caliper and 20 bucks for pads allowed us to drive back to Clearwater straight to the dealer.
I wonder if I can claim warranty since I just did the brakes? :P
(Honestly Mr dealer, I was going to church and had to stop frequently. No sir, I don't know how all that scoring in the rotors happened)
Since you are a loyal customer to Crown Acura, they should warranty it, no problem.
You are probably aware of this already, though, if you wanted to go one OEM step UP in quality, while the car is there at Acura, have them install front 'dual pot' 1995 Legend calipers for a simple upgrade. Just have them place the right side Legend caliper on the CL left side and the left side Legend caliper on the CL right side to keep the bleeder screws at the top. They are a direct bolt-on to the OEM CL caliper brackets with all CL pads/shims transferrable.
You are probably aware of this already, though, if you wanted to go one OEM step UP in quality, while the car is there at Acura, have them install front 'dual pot' 1995 Legend calipers for a simple upgrade. Just have them place the right side Legend caliper on the CL left side and the left side Legend caliper on the CL right side to keep the bleeder screws at the top. They are a direct bolt-on to the OEM CL caliper brackets with all CL pads/shims transferrable.
I thought about that. The stock brakes are pretty good except when you try to be insane. I will probably get a set as a spare in case something happens.
Great advice, thanks zeta
For motor mounts and suspension parts I would just check them periodically for play/tears in rubber and replace if needed.
I run 3 torque dampers to help support engine and make mounts last longer. My XLR8 mounts are still fine after many years of hard driving.
If you go with Hardrace, there would be no reason to swap back to oem. Hardrace parts are fine on street. I can provide info and links for purchasing if you need.
If you don't mind swapping tires often RE71R are great. Also a good choice if you have extra set of wheels. My tire purchases are based more on autocross than track. I'm sure there are many other great tires. BFG Rivals are another good tire. Any of tires I mentioned should be great. Tire rack has good reviews and comparisons.
Didn't realize your car was an automatic. That would be my biggest concern. I can't really help you in that department.
I sold Ponto my Legend 2 Piston Calipers. They should clear rims, unlike rl, stoptech, etc. Not sure if you will really see improved braking, but I think 2 piston vs stock 1 piston might help some with warping rotors. You can just do pads and fluid, then upgrade more if feel need.
What pressures do you run in your tires when you autocross Brian? Although I presume with all the weight you've taken out someone with a stock car would probably want to run slightly higher pressures than you do...
For motor mounts and suspension parts I would just check them periodically for play/tears in rubber and replace if needed.
I run 3 torque dampers to help support engine and make mounts last longer. My XLR8 mounts are still fine after many years of hard driving.
If you go with Hardrace, there would be no reason to swap back to oem. Hardrace parts are fine on street. I can provide info and links for purchasing if you need.
I sold Ponto my Legend 2 Piston Calipers. They should clear rims, unlike rl, stoptech, etc. Not sure if you will really see improved braking, but I think 2 piston vs stock 1 piston might help some with warping rotors. You can just do pads and fluid, then upgrade more if feel need.
Brian I am revisiting this thread to maybe look for a better option on braking. Are you aware of any good options for brakes now in 2019?
It's disheartening that a 2011 Merc has better brakes than a 2019 Acura TLX sport model.
One track day, less than 700 miles on car, only 3 sessions. 2019 TLX sport. About 40 minutes total @ Sebring. Mercedes after detail, brakes almost new still, maybe 80% life left To be fair, this was after a good detail at dealer, but no scoring and still pad life left. Stock brakes after a good track day and detail after.
02-14-2017, 06:35 AM
